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GreatOne2k

Bee Line Service Changes (Fall 2011)

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http://transportation.westchestergov.com/images/stories/Schedules/SeasonBrochure_090611.pdf

 

W21 now runs 7 days a week and stops at Cross County Shopping Center outside of rush hours. W21 replaces short turn W20 service to/from Cross County and Yonkers Raceway.

 

W60 runs a bit earlier on Sundays

 

and other changes

 

They still DON'T GET IT!!!!!!!!!! wow 21 short trips that's even more useless why can't 21 run LTD service the full rte on ALL TRIPS seriously the 20 is slow!!!!!!!

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That`s not useless.

 

When I take Bee-Line #20 bus, I see lots of people take W20 Short Trip (now W21).

 

When Bus Rapid Transit is implemented, Bee-Line #21 will be converted from LTD to BRT, as same feature as SBS.

Read this PDF files.

http://transportation.westchestergov.com/planning-division/projects/central-ave-bus-rapid-transit

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That`s not useless.

 

When I take Bee-Line #20 bus, I see lots of people take W20 Short Trip (now W21).

 

When Bus Rapid Transit is implemented, Bee-Line #21 will be converted from LTD to BRT, as same feature as SBS.

Read this PDF files.

http://transportation.westchestergov.com/planning-division/projects/central-ave-bus-rapid-transit

 

WRONG W21 SHORT TRIP DEFEATS THE PURPOSE OF BEING 21!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's useless I WANT SPEED!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not slow 20!!!!!!!!! I do my best to only travel at rush hr

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WRONG W21 SHORT TRIP DEFEATS THE PURPOSE OF BEING 21!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's useless I WANT SPEED!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not slow 20!!!!!!!!! I do my best to only travel at rush hr

 

 

QJtransitmaster bee line officals plan to introduce BRT to the BL-20/21 lines soon(forget date)within next year or so.

 

Still i agree Transitmaster. The #20 should run as a limited stop 7 days a week From my experience riding the #20/#21, I would run the "Limited' weekdays appx. 6am-9pm Saturdays 8am-8pm and sundays 12 Noon-8pm the full route between White Plains and Bedford Park. #21 operates between Ardlsey Road in Scardale and Bedford Park via Cross County.

#20 should only stop at Cross County on weekends all day and when the #21 is not running.

Riders at Cross County going to White Plains could transfer at any 'limited stop' #20 location between Tuchaoe Rd. and Scardale.

 

Late evenings and Sunday Mornings when ridership is lighter than the #20 could make all stops between White Plains and Bedford Park.

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- I hate what the 12 has turned into.... some of those suckers should go back to serving Jefferson Valley Mall; or at least to Mount Kisco.... that route is pretty much nothin more than an airport & a school shuttle now.....

 

- I have to agree w/ QJT... why are they running short turn LTD's?

I think there should be more short turned 20's, and more (full) 21 service........ They're doing it backwards....

 

- route 430.... wtf ?

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- route 430.... wtf ?

 

400 series routes are like 400 series routes on SEPTA or the x32, school day only and specifically targeted toward students.

 

(BTW, the 400 series SEPTA routes aren't even publicized)

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It`s not short turn LTD. W21 Cross County is local run.

 

I think I agree. Relabled Cross County trip to W21 will confuse W21 LTD riders.

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It`s not short turn LTD. W21 Cross County is local run.

 

I think I agree. Relabled Cross County trip to W21 will confuse W21 LTD riders.

 

doesn't make sense to call it the 21 then.....

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- I hate what the 12 has turned into.... some of those suckers should go back to serving Jefferson Valley Mall; or at least to Mount Kisco.... that route is pretty much nothin more than an airport & a school shuttle now.....

 

- I have to agree w/ QJT... why are they running short turn LTD's?

I think there should be more short turned 20's, and more (full) 21 service........ They're doing it backwards....

 

- route 430.... wtf ?

 

I think the BL has the worst planners I've known they literally are clueless to how ppl get around and the needs of westchester ppl and also those idiots haven't heard of a thing called practicality their new schedules look awful and are horrid. These guys are just dumb the only guys worse than them are the fools @ dutchess next time I head out to dutchess I will get a friend with a car!!!!!!!!

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- I hate what the 12 has turned into.... some of those suckers should go back to serving Jefferson Valley Mall; or at least to Mount Kisco.... that route is pretty much nothin more than an airport & a school shuttle now.....

 

- I have to agree w/ QJT... why are they running short turn LTD's?

I think there should be more short turned 20's, and more (full) 21 service........ They're doing it backwards....

 

- route 430.... wtf ?

 

 

A big factor for the huge drop off in the #12 ridership is when both SUNY Purchase and Manhattanville College hired a private bus charter to run shuttle buses 7 days a week (almost 24/7 when classes are in full session)between the campuses and Downtown White Plains around 4-5 years ago.

 

And bro it's doubtful the #12 will ever go back to serving Jefferson Valley since the #77 Carmel express stops there. However I do agree the #12 should run at least to Mt. Kisco weekdays. Then on weekends run it only between Westchester County Airport and White Plains.

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A big factor for the huge drop off in the #12 ridership is when both SUNY Purchase and Manhattanville College hired a private bus charter to run shuttle buses 7 days a week (almost 24/7 when classes are in full session)between the campuses and Downtown White Plains around 4-5 years ago.

 

And bro it's doubtful the #12 will ever go back to serving Jefferson Valley since the #77 Carmel express stops there. However I do agree the #12 should run at least to Mt. Kisco weekdays. Then on weekends run it only between Westchester County Airport and White Plains.

 

I am starting to think that we are dealing with idiots when it comes to WCDOT they are beyond stupid

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- I hate what the 12 has turned into.... some of those suckers should go back to serving Jefferson Valley Mall; or at least to Mount Kisco.... that route is pretty much nothin more than an airport & a school shuttle now.....

 

 

A couple of questions:

 

* When did they cut the 12 back to Armonk?

 

* What route did it take to get to Mount Kisco? I assume it stayed on Rt. 128 (Armonk Road) until it hit the MNRR station. Then how'd it get up to Yorktown Heights from there? :confused: That's a pretty long distance away. :eek: Did it take Millwood Road and then take the 77 route up to Yorktown Heights?

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A couple of questions:

 

* When did they cut the 12 back to Armonk?

 

* What route did it take to get to Mount Kisco? I assume it stayed on Rt. 128 (Armonk Road) until it hit the MNRR station. Then how'd it get up to Yorktown Heights from there? :confused: That's a pretty long distance away. :eek: Did it take Millwood Road and then take the 77 route up to Yorktown Heights?

 

Yup it took Route 128 to Mt. Kisco. Then after the Mt. Kisco station the #12 took local roads to Route 100 then followed Bee Line #15 routing to Yorktown. Then again local back roads to Jefferson Valley.

 

The #77 uses the Taonic Parkway to/from FDR Park then local roads to US route 6 where it travels into Carmel just past the Westchester/Putnam border.

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A couple of questions:

 

* When did they cut the 12 back to Armonk?

 

* What route did it take to get to Mount Kisco? I assume it stayed on Rt. 128 (Armonk Road) until it hit the MNRR station. Then how'd it get up to Yorktown Heights from there? :confused: That's a pretty long distance away. :eek: Did it take Millwood Road and then take the 77 route up to Yorktown Heights?

 

In 2010 I believe. And the 12 took an hour to get there to mt kisco from white plains the 12 is embarrasing. Ohh it took 2 hours to reach jefferson valley!!!!!! It used backroads to reach the BL15 then took 15 route to yorktown heights then back roads to jefferson valley mall. The line is crap the BL system is SLOW!!!!! I call it turtle transit.

 

Damn shortline beat me by 1 minute

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In 2010 I believe. And the 12 took an hour to get there to mt kisco from white plains the 12 is embarrasing. Ohh it took 2 hours to reach jefferson valley!!!!!! It used backroads to reach the BL15 then took 15 route to yorktown heights then back roads to jefferson valley mall. The line is crap the BL system is SLOW!!!!! I call it turtle transit.

 

Damn shortline beat me by 1 minute

 

It's over 18 miles, so 18 miles an hour isn't bad for a local bus. Hell, I'd love it if the buses by me ran at 18 miles an hour.

 

In any case, yeah, I think it should be extended at least back to Mount Kisco. I'm not sure if it should go all the way back to Yorktown Heights, though. How was ridership on the bus between Yorktown Heights and Mount Kisco? Maybe a 19 extension (I don't know how the roads work up there) would be better (I doubt people would go all the way from White Plains up to Yorktown Heights and even then, they might be better off taking Metro-North to Katonah and catching the 19 there, unless of course they get the 77)

 

And were there any other Bee-Line cuts (aside from the BxM4C reduction/fare hike) around that time?

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A couple of questions:

 

* When did they cut the 12 back to Armonk?

 

* What route did it take to get to Mount Kisco? I assume it stayed on Rt. 128 (Armonk Road) until it hit the MNRR station. Then how'd it get up to Yorktown Heights from there? :confused: That's a pretty long distance away. :eek: Did it take Millwood Road and then take the 77 route up to Yorktown Heights?

 

1) sometime early last year; february or march IIRC....

 

2) oh, nah bro, the 12 was (nice and) long & winding....

(the 77 shoots up the taconic state til it hits crompond rd)

 

 

The old 12 ...

From armonk rd (128), it took 117 (where it met up w/ the 19) within Mt. Kisco....

then shot across 133, on up to 7 bridges, then [to 100 & to 118 (where it paralleled the 15)], turned on underhill, to commerce, back to saw mill river rd, then broad st in yorktown heights....

 

...after that, it took a couple local roads [residential sts; gomer was the name of one of em, granite *something* rd was another, and I think curry was another st it traveled on] within yorktown heigts til it hit main st...

 

....it then traveled along main st (US 6) til it got to the point where it basically looped around the mall [jefferson valley], to the terminal at the back end of the mall (where you also catch the 16)......

 

I remember the days where you'd have 12's wait up for 19's (& vice versa) opposite the hospital parking lot out in mt. kisco before they went on to diverge... I actually benefitted from that in one of my older trips (the 19 waited up for the 12 I got off).....

 

 

 

 

 

And were there any other Bee-Line cuts (aside from the BxM4C reduction/fare hike) around that time?

They got rid of that airlink (b/w MNRR White Plains & the airport).....

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I always felt that the following Upper Westchester-White Plains should run at least every 90 minutes during middays weekdays.

 

The #77 and the #17.

 

- 77 I'd agree with; b/c then there wouldn't be a need really to extend the 12 past Mt Kisco....

 

- The 17 P-skill (peekskill)-white plains express though... nah, no need to have that runnin weekday middays..... that service would be better used on adding an extra bus each way on the 14 or 15, IMHO......

 

 

 

It's over 18 miles, so 18 miles an hour isn't bad for a local bus. Hell, I'd love it if the buses by me ran at 18 miles an hour.

 

In any case, yeah, I think it should be extended at least back to Mount Kisco. I'm not sure if it should go all the way back to Yorktown Heights, though. How was ridership on the bus between Yorktown Heights and Mount Kisco? Maybe a 19 extension (I don't know how the roads work up there) would be better (I doubt people would go all the way from White Plains up to Yorktown Heights and even then, they might be better off taking Metro-North to Katonah and catching the 19 there, unless of course they get the 77)

 

At the bare minimum, yes, I think they should put 12's back to serving Mt Kisco... at least it would serve a RR station for cryin out loud.... Armonk is in the middle of nowhere....

 

I'll be honest... usage on the 12 wasn't great (even for bee line's standards, I mean) north of mt. kisco.... But I still think it should be reverted back to serving Jefferson Valley mall... doesn't have to take those local streets though; just have it running w/ the 15 along crompond rd (instead of turning on broad like it used to), to 132, to US 6, en route to the mall.....

 

I have a fellow TCI graduate that works for IBM out there in yorktown heights.... he drives out there.... that wasn't a commute I was willing to take everyday anyway..... But more to the point, yeh, north of north white plains, Katonah & Mt. Kisco (along w/ Chappaqua; just rolls off the tongue sayin that...) are the important stops up there along the Harlem line....

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I remember the days where you'd have 12's wait up for 19's (& vice versa) opposite the hospital parking lot out in mt. kisco before they went on to diverge... I actually benefitted from that in one of my older trips (the 19 waited up for the 12 I got off).....

 

They got rid of that airlink (b/w MNRR White Plains & the airport).....

 

Would they wait in both directions or just when they were both going in the same direction (say, if somebody was coming from Armonk and wanted to go to Chappaqua, would the 19 wait for the 12 to arrive?)

 

And how much time did the AirLink save over the 12? I assume since the only other bus along Westchester Avenue is the 13, there were a decent number of people taking the 12 between Purchase Street and the White Plains MNRR station which slowed it down.

 

At the bare minimum, yes, I think they should put 12's back to serving Mt Kisco... at least it would serve a RR station for cryin out loud.... Armonk is in the middle of nowhere....

 

I'll be honest... usage on the 12 wasn't great (even for bee line's standards, I mean) north of mt. kisco.... But I still think it should be reverted back to serving Jefferson Valley mall... doesn't have to take those local streets though; just have it running w/ the 15 along crompond rd (instead of turning on broad like it used to), to 132, to US 6, en route to the mall.....

 

I have a fellow TCI graduate that works for IBM out there in yorktown heights.... he drives out there.... that wasn't a commute I was willing to take everyday anyway..... But more to the point, yeh, north of north white plains, Katonah & Mt. Kisco (along w/ Chappaqua; just rolls off the tongue sayin that...) are the important stops up there along the Harlem line....

 

Yeah, I don't think it's a good idea to have buses end at office parks unless they're relatively close to some sort of residential area. I mean, chances are those going to a business park aren't going to take a bus unless it's frequent.

 

I assume most of the people going to the Jefferson Valley Mall were coming from Mount Kisco, not White Plains, right? (So expanded 77 service wouldn't really help them)

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Would they wait in both directions or just when they were both going in the same direction (say, if somebody was coming from Armonk and wanted to go to Chappaqua, would the 19 wait for the 12 to arrive?)

 

And how much time did the AirLink save over the 12? I assume since the only other bus along Westchester Avenue is the 13, there were a decent number of people taking the 12 between Purchase Street and the White Plains MNRR station which slowed it down.

 

 

 

Yeah, I don't think it's a good idea to have buses end at office parks unless they're relatively close to some sort of residential area. I mean, chances are those going to a business park aren't going to take a bus unless it's frequent.

 

I assume most of the people going to the Jefferson Valley Mall were coming from Mount Kisco, not White Plains, right? (So expanded 77 service wouldn't really help them)

 

 

Actually from couple of times riding the entire #12 full route in the late '90's/early 2000's when it ran between JV(Jefferson Valley Mall) and White Plains during weekdays was quiet different than weekends. There was usually 10-20 riders when SUNY Purchase is open riding it to the college and then to WCC Airport.

Then the rest would be off by Mt. Kisco. If you lucky, there was at most 5 riders by Yorktown and they usually were teens going to JV Mall.

 

Weekends #12 Northbound ridership to JV Mall was dead by the time trip hit WCC airport. Maybe a few riders would board in either Mt. Kisco or Yorktown going to JV Mall. (Note since Corlandt Town Centre opened JV Mall customer base has dropped dramtically)

 

It similar going southbound back to White Plains. At Most a few riders boarded by Mt. Kisco and then more riders as it stopped by WCC Airport and then SUNY Purchase. A factor that also killed #12 ridership was when SUNY Purchase and Manhattanville colleges hired a full time charter bus company to transport students between the campuses and White Plains.

 

I disagree with B35 the BL-12 only needs weekday service restored back to Mt. Kisco and maybe Yorktown connecting with the BL-15. Remember this is a very rich area that puts the South Shore of Staten Island to shame with Multi-Million Dollar Homes. Not to mention Bill and Hillary calls the area home as well.

 

Hope Checkmate it answers your question on the #12. Some nice scneary as well. It passes on the border of Greenwich, CT. right after it's stops at SUNY Purchase.

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I disagree with B35 the BL-12 only needs weekday service restored back to Mt. Kisco and maybe Yorktown connecting with the BL-15. Remember this is a very rich area that puts the South Shore of Staten Island to shame with Multi-Million Dollar Homes. Not to mention Bill and Hillary calls the area home as well.

 

I don't see the point of sending buses to yorktown hgts. just to have it connect w/ the 15....

 

As far as that last point you made.... lol.... that had squat to do w/ why the 12 was cut back.... the residents did not call for the removal of the 12 through those side streets up in yorktown hgts.....

 

See, Bee line killed 2 birds w/ one stone (so to speak) with discontinuing that airlink route (which was a perfect example of something looking good on paper & never really flourishing... funny thing was, when these buses ran, you still had ppl taking 12's to the airport @ the transcenter), and cutting back 12's to armonk....

 

My question to beeline is.... why Armonk ?

My best guess is that it has to do w/ bus(es) terminating in the airport itself.....

 

 

Would they wait in both directions or just when they were both going in the same direction (say, if somebody was coming from Armonk and wanted to go to Chappaqua, would the 19 wait for the 12 to arrive?)

 

And how much time did the AirLink save over the 12? I assume since the only other bus along Westchester Avenue is the 13, there were a decent number of people taking the 12 between Purchase Street and the White Plains MNRR station which slowed it down.

 

I assume most of the people going to the Jefferson Valley Mall were coming from Mount Kisco, not White Plains, right? (So expanded 77 service wouldn't really help them)

 

1) not that I know of....

 

I mean, I would only see respective SB buses waiting for each other, and respective NB buses waiting for each other......

 

(that is, Ossining bound 19's & White Plains bound 12's waiting up for each other.... and Katonah bound 19's & Jefferson valley bound 12's waiting up for each other....

 

 

2) Can't say... I never bothered takin the things....

 

to be honest, I'm not fond of riding on mini-buses (in general) anyway... reminds me of those mini-buses out in Jersey..... you couldn't pay me to ride those things.....

 

 

3) Yes, anywhere b/w mt. kisco & (within) yorktown hgts is where you saw the small (core) amt. of riders takin 12's to get to jefferson valley - some of which included riders off the 15.... which is exactly why I'd send 12's up rt. 132 (olde yorktown rd) en route to the mall....

 

that way you really wont have to bother with waiting for that 16 - which JQP would absolutely love taking that route (case you're wondering, it has a high hispanic riderbase, and gets good ridership too)....

 

the 15 to the 16 is a common xfer scenario out in cortlandt town center... but that means nothin from someone wishing to take a bus, emanating east of rt. 100 (east of the 15)....

 

 

 

...and just for the record, Earlier, I wasn't implicating that every bus should serve jefferson valley... for all I care, end most the runs at mt. kisco (which we pretty much all agree on that locale).... but I do feel that some type of connection b/w yorktown hgts & jefferson valley is needed..... the 15 is only good if you're heading out to cortlandt town center in the other direction....

(which I'll admit is a far more sought after a destination of any of the 4 or 5 shopping centers along US 6).....

 

* the croton commuter (think it's the 10) & the 77 (as you alluded to) doesn't really count along 132 as it pertains to what I'm gettin at.... b/c both of those routes exist only to serve rush hour commuters.......

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:cool:

I don't see the point of sending buses to yorktown hgts. just to have it connect w/ the 15....

 

As far as that last point you made.... lol.... that had squat to do w/ why the 12 was cut back.... the residents did not call for the removal of the 12 through those side streets up in yorktown hgts.....

 

See, Bee line killed 2 birds w/ one stone (so to speak) with discontinuing that airlink route (which was a perfect example of something looking good on paper & never really flourishing... funny thing was, when these buses ran, you still had ppl taking 12's to the airport @ the transcenter), and cutting back 12's to armonk....

 

My question to beeline is.... why Armonk ?

My best guess is that it has to do w/ bus(es) terminating in the airport itself.....

 

 

 

 

1) not that I know of....

 

I mean, I would only see respective SB buses waiting for each other, and respective NB buses waiting for each other......

 

(that is, Ossining bound 19's & White Plains bound 12's waiting up for each other.... and Katonah bound 19's & Jefferson valley bound 12's waiting up for each other....

 

 

2) Can't say... I never bothered takin the things....

 

to be honest, I'm not fond of riding on mini-buses (in general) anyway... reminds me of those mini-buses out in Jersey..... you couldn't pay me to ride those things.....

 

 

3) Yes, anywhere b/w mt. kisco & (within) yorktown hgts is where you saw the small (core) amt. of riders takin 12's to get to jefferson valley - some of which included riders off the 15.... which is exactly why I'd send 12's up rt. 132 (olde yorktown rd) en route to the mall....

 

that way you really wont have to bother with waiting for that 16 - which JQP would absolutely love taking that route (case you're wondering, it has a high hispanic riderbase, and gets good ridership too)....

 

the 15 to the 16 is a common xfer scenario out in cortlandt town center... but that means nothin from someone wishing to take a bus, emanating east of rt. 100 (east of the 15)....

 

 

 

...and just for the record, Earlier, I wasn't implicating that every bus should serve jefferson valley... for all I care, end most the runs at mt. kisco (which we pretty much all agree on that locale).... but I do feel that some type of connection b/w yorktown hgts & jefferson valley is needed..... the 15 is only good if you're heading out to cortlandt town center in the other direction....

(which I'll admit is a far more sought after a destination of any of the 4 or 5 shopping centers along US 6).....

 

* the croton commuter (think it's the 10) & the 77 (as you alluded to) doesn't really count along 132 as it pertains to what I'm gettin at.... b/c both of those routes exist only to serve rush hour commuters.......

 

mind you the 10 was very helpful in getting me from yorktown to cortlandt town center when 15 stopped running. I will give you a taste of what westchester needs in a few. Or I would keep to myself and let you guess.

 

What I would have done was finish off the 12 then let airlink replace the old mt kisco part of 12. This would have shaved 30+mins off the trip

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