LIRR vs Metro-North

[6 Lexington Ave]

I thank you all for your answers. (there's no thank you button...) Quick follow-up: how come Metro-North is so much more reliable? There seem to be less service disruptions..

[B35 via Church]

I thank you all for your answers. (there's no thank you button...) Quick follow-up: how come Metro-North is so much more reliable? There seem to be less service disruptions..

 

MNRR routes the Harlem, Hudson, and New Haven lines through GCT....

 

LIRR has Penn, but it also has to worry about routing trains on multiple branches through Jamaica.... MNRR doesn't have that problem.... It's much harder to keep trains running on time on the LIRR, on a network that extensive....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

All I know is there is no way in hell that I would move to Long Island with only the LIRR basically serving as a formidable form of transportation to and from the city outside of driving.

[lilbluefoxie]

I thank you all for your answers. (there's no thank you button...) Quick follow-up: how come Metro-North is so much more reliable? There seem to be less service disruptions..

 

the LIRR is more complex, has 3 western terminals instead of one, has 12 branches instead of 6 (harlem, hudson, new haven and its branches)

 

All I know is there is no way in hell that I would move to Long Island with only the LIRR basically serving as a formidable form of transportation to and from the city outside of driving.

 

the LIRR isnt that bad, and plus many people on Long Island work on Long Island so they dont need the LIRR or the buses.

[Nexis4Jersey]

the LIRR is more complex, has 3 western terminals instead of one, has 12 branches instead of 6 (harlem, hudson, new haven and its branches)

 

 

 

the LIRR isnt that bad, and plus many people on Long Island work on Long Island so they dont need the LIRR or the buses.

 

But there is no Alt transportation , most towns do not have sidewalks or even parks. Compared to North and West of the city where you can live in most towns without a car or limited car use. Long Island was built around the car which also makes it very congested....also I hate to say it but the people on Long Island are some of the Weirdest in this region. The Size of the LIRR has nothing to do with the Failures it has and these are big failures. Compare that to the Hoboken Division of NJ which only has large scale failures once or twice a year.

[qjtransitmaster]

^^ It doesn't have to be a station in Connecticut for me to bring up the fact that the LIRR is more expensive than the Metro North.....

 

 

 

yes, enough times.

that's part of the reason why those montauk trains be so damn packed....

 

12:10(pm) montauk train out of jamaica on a saturday.... you won't see any one platform for any other branch get more crowded than folks waitin for that train..... and of course, those are the bi-levels too... absolute madhouse....

 

Then why is montauk branch service so infrequent??? In general not just hamptons and such.

 

I don't understand.

[lilbluefoxie]

.also I hate to say it but the people on Long Island are some of the Weirdest in this region.

 

why, because we prefer to drive except when going to Manhattan.

[qjtransitmaster]

why, because we prefer to drive except when going to Manhattan.

 

I don't think that's the reason he said that I think he is referring to their behavior on trains and in general. Yes those ppl are very wierd.

[lilbluefoxie]

I don't think that's the reason he said that I think he is referring to their behavior on trains and in general. Yes those ppl are very wierd.

 

who ya callin wierd?

 

if I wasnt a railfan I wouldnt even use the LIRR except for the occasional trip to manhattan, and I most certainly wouldnt use the bus.

[qjtransitmaster]

who ya callin wierd?

 

if I wasnt a railfan I wouldnt even use the LIRR except for the occasional trip to manhattan, and I most certainly wouldnt use the bus.

 

not you but in general wierd moments I think that was what nexis meant.

 

Plus LIRR if bus service linking it was better more ppl will use it.

[Joel Up Front]

No, because people that use the LIRR typically have rides or just walk (in the case of going back home or to Manhattan, respectively).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

So this morning I heard yet again about problems plaguing the LIRR and evening service with trains being knocked out due to a rail breaking or some nonsense.  When I compare the LIRR to MetroNorth, it seems as if the LIRR is just an overpriced subway with constant problems.  Has it always been this way or were both commuter rails equal in terms of performance and quality of rides, pricing, etc.?  They're both pricey, but I think I get more for the money with MetroNorth vs the LIRR.

[lirr42]

The LIRR is a considerably older system with many more things to go wrong.  Futhermore, the LIRR has to deal with its landlord at its most important station on the system, Amtrak.  Metro-North has complete autonomy over all of its tracks.

 

Metro-North is a lot newer, with lots of newer track and singlas.  Futermore, most of Metro-North's rights of way are two to four tracks wide.  You don't see Metro-North having to run a sinlge tracked mainline for tens of miles with loaded trains.  If something goes wrong on the LIRR mainline, the whole thing's cooked.  However, if something went wrong on much of Metro-North, there is enough capcaity and spare tracks to recover from the incident.

 

Metro-North isn't nescescarily better than the LIRR, the systems are both very different and they each suffer from a unique bunch of different circumstances.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The LIRR is a considerably older system with many more things to go wrong.  Futhermore, the LIRR has to deal with its landlord at its most important station on the system, Amtrak.  Metro-North has complete autonomy over all of its tracks.

 

Metro-North is a lot newer, with lots of newer track and singlas.  Futermore, most of Metro-North's rights of way are two to four tracks wide.  You don't see Metro-North having to run a sinlge tracked mainline for tens of miles with loaded trains.  If something goes wrong on the LIRR mainline, the whole thing's cooked.  However, if something went wrong on much of Metro-North, there is enough capcaity and spare tracks to recover from the incident.

 

Metro-North isn't nescescarily better than the LIRR, the systems are both very different and they each suffer from a unique bunch of different circumstances.

Ha! Try telling that to LIRR riders. I only take the LIRR to Long Island if I can't be driven there.  If I'm in Queens I'd opt for the express bus in a heartbeat over the LIRR. I always feel ripped off when using the LIRR.  Seems like the LIRR doesn't invest as much as MetroNorth does in the system.

[tun]

Just a few differences off the top of my head:

 

-Four western terminals with a fifth on the way (Penn, Atlantic, HPA, and LIC) vs one for MNR (GCT).

-Jamaica bottleneck

-The only 4 track portion is from Harold to Queens. All of our branches are at most double track.

-Many single track portions throughout the railroad on almost every single branch. (Mainline, Montauk, Port Wash, Port Jeff, Oyster Bay, Hempstead, West Hempstead, and Central. You can include Far Rock and Long Beach if you want to count the small stretches between IPK and LBH and IWD and FRY.)

 

As for delays out of Penn Station, you have to understand that the LIRR has much tighter equipment manipulations than MNR does. With only 9 station tracks and 4 tunnels that are shared with NJT and Amtrak, one little delay can have a huge ripple effect on the entire rush hour.

[itmaybeokay]

The Long Island Railroad has more problems mostly because: 

 

1. It shares 4 tracks into and out of manhattan with Amtrak, who owns the tunnels. This morning, like last night, there was a broken rail in a tunnel knocking it out of service. These are under-river tunnels unlike the park avenue tunnel of Metro North, so repairs are harder to make. Investments to the tunnels are not the LIRR's to make because the tunnels are owned by Amtrak. 
    
2. It shares it's Penn Station terminal with Amtrak and New Jersey Transit. That's 21 tracks to go around between 3 agencies. Grand Central Terminal is Metro-North only, and has 67 tracks. 

So, to solving these problems would require a dedicated tunnel for LIRR trains and a new terminal, deidicated to LIRR trains

 

Kinda like the one they are building under Grand Central. But I guess one of the largest public works projects since the construction of the IND doesn't count as investment in the system. 

[Vistausss]

Metro-North has complete autonomy over all of its tracks.

 

 

 

 

Not really. Midtown Venture is the owner of GCT, so technically MNRR has a landlord too.

 

Just a few differences off the top of my head:

 

-Four western terminals with a fifth on the way (Penn, Atlantic, HPA, and LIC) vs one for MNR (GCT).

 

Oh please, I wouldn't ever call HPA and LIC terminals. It's only a few trains a day terminating/going in service there.

If you count that in then you also want to call Stamford in on MNRR because there are northbound peak trains terminating and going in service there as well.

 

The Long Island Railroad has more problems mostly because: 

1. Grand Central Terminal is Metro-North only, and has 67 tracks. 

 

It's not 67 tracks anymore, a few tracks have been removed for the ESA terminal. Tracks 116-127 (or their right of way where the tracks had been taken up already), all of the 160s (except for 160 and 161 - present day north end of 115), and 186-188 have been turned over to the MTA Capital Construction Company for the construction of the lower concourse that will serve LIRR passengers. When the East Side Access project is complete, Tracks 186-188 will return to MNR. The rest will be gone forever. Only tracks 102 to 114 are used for passenger service with a few others for storage.

[lirr42]

Not really. Midtown Venture is the owner of GCT, so technically MNRR has a landlord too.

 

Midtown Venture can't decide to give its own trains priority in the station and stiff Metro-North........

Midtown Venture's trains can't derail or break rails in tunnels causing delays to Metro-North........

[tun]

Not really. Midtown Venture is the owner of GCT, so technically MNRR has a landlord too.

 

 

 

Oh please, I wouldn't ever call HPA and LIC terminals. It's only a few trains a day terminating/going in service there.

If you count that in then you also want to call Stamford in on MNRR because there are northbound peak trains terminating and going in service there as well.

HPA and LIC matter because trains out of those terminals almost always have connections at Jamaica. During the rush hour, it is very common to see a connection between a Penn Station train, Atlantic Terminal train, and HPA/LIC train at Jamaica. If one of those trains is a few minutes late, they hold the other two trains to make those connections (moreso e/b than w/b). This slows down those trains as well as those behind them waiting for track space into Jamaica.

[Vistausss]

HPA and LIC matter because trains out of those terminals almost always have connections at Jamaica. During the rush hour, it is very common to see a connection between a Penn Station train, Atlantic Terminal train, and HPA/LIC train at Jamaica. If one of those trains is a few minutes late, they hold the other two trains to make those connections (moreso e/b than w/b). This slows down those trains as well as those behind them waiting for track space into Jamaica.

 

Still, in that regard Stamford on MNRR is a terminal as well. So that makes 2 terminals for MNRR.

[tun]

Stamford is more of a junction point, not a terminal. During the rush hour, we have Great Neck locals and Port Washington flyers. That doesn't mean Great Neck is suddenly a terminal. Just because trains terminate and originate at mid-branch stations like Stamford or Great Neck, doesn't make them terminals.

[Vistausss]

Stamford is more of a junction point, not a terminal. During the rush hour, we have Great Neck locals and Port Washington flyers. That doesn't mean Great Neck is suddenly a terminal. Just because trains terminate and originate at mid-branch stations like Stamford or Great Neck, doesn't make them terminals.

 

But that's basically the same at HPA and LIC. It's only a few trains who use it as a terminal and starting point so just because a few trains use it as a terminal/starting point doesn't it make it a terminal.

[bobtehpanda]

Ha! Try telling that to LIRR riders. I only take the LIRR to Long Island if I can't be driven there.  If I'm in Queens I'd opt for the express bus in a heartbeat over the LIRR. I always feel ripped off when using the LIRR.  Seems like the LIRR doesn't invest as much as MetroNorth does in the system.

 

If you're going somewhere within the City, the LIRR is not intended to be used for that purpose. MNRR is much more forward-looking when it comes to things like reverse commuting and accomodating city riders.

 

But that's basically the same at HPA and LIC. It's only a few trains who use it as a terminal and starting point so just because a few trains use it as a terminal/starting point doesn't it make it a terminal.

 

HPA and LIC are actually located at the physical end of tracks. That's what makes them terminals.

[tun]

But that's basically the same at HPA and LIC. It's only a few trains who use it as a terminal and starting point so just because a few trains use it as a terminal/starting point doesn't it make it a terminal.

Stamford isn't the end of the line. HPA/LIC is.

 

You're only arguing semantics and completely ignoring the real world example that I provided for you.

[Vistausss]

If you're going somewhere within the City, the LIRR is not intended to be used for that purpose. MNRR is much more forward-looking when it comes to things like reverse commuting and accomodating city riders.

 

Actually, LIRR has package deals for people who travel within the city (on the CTZ). Sure, it's not their main priority but if they didn't care at all then they wouldn't do those deals.

 

Stamford isn't the end of the line. HPA/LIC is.

 

 

 

Apperantly, we have both different views of what a terminal is. No problem, we agree to disagree.