New Bus Schedules Are Out

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well, like I said, I'd agree with cutting the BM2/3/4/5, but the BM1 should stay to serve that area of Brooklyn. People can drive or take local buses to access it, and like you said, it has the highest ridership out of all of the BMs.

 

With an off-peak discount, and the riders from all of the other express routes, I can see the BM1 getting decent usage.

 

I don't think I mentioned this before publicly (though I mentioned it to VG8), but what do you think of this for the next fare hike (not that I would like one, but we all know it's going to happen sooner or later)

Subway/local bus fare: $2.50

Express bus fare: $6.50 peak and $5 off-peak.

 

Actually, I think it would be better if we had that fare structure now, but there was a 20% bonus. The local bus rides (with the bonus) would still come out to be about $2.10, and the average express fare would remain the same. Plus, they get the extra $0.25 from riders paying cash on local buses.

 

The express bus fare should be $7.00 each way. Too much riff raff coming on some of the express buses of late and raising the fare would squash that. The folks riding it now (the regulars) can certainly afford the fare hike. That would also be in line with the $2.50 fare hike, since of late the express bus has been almost 3 times as much as the local bus. :cool: The Unlimited Express Bus Plus card should stay at $50.00 a week. They've raised it almost $10.00 in the last few years. :mad: If anything if they had to raise it, raise it to $55.00 a week. I wouldn't be all that happy considering how sh*tty service has been, but that's reasonable.

 

 

As for cutting the other BMs, I disagree. What makes you think that all of these people drive in the first place???? This is not Staten Island. This is Brooklyn and even though those areas are considered more "suburban", they are far more "urban" than many parts of Staten Island.

 

 

And their #2 solution is probably duct tape. B)

 

If I become a civil engineer and end up working for them, I will make sure they continue with that policy.

 

MTA Worker: That wall looks really unstable

Me: Ah, don't worry. We'll put some paint and duct tape and it'll be good as new.

(fast forward a week later to photo of crumbled wall, which caused massive delays and injuries and cost the MTA more money than if they had done it right originally)

 

Tsk tsk tsk... :mad: :mad: lol

[checkmatechamp13]

The express bus fare should be $7.00 each way. Too much riff raff coming on some of the express buses of late and raising the fare would squash that. The folks riding it now (the regulars) can certainly afford the fare hike. That would also be in line with the $2.50 fare hike, since of late the express bus has been almost 3 times as much as the local bus. :cool: The Unlimited Express Bus Plus card should stay at $50.00 a week. They've raised it almost $10.00 in the last few years. :mad: If anything if they had to raise it, raise it to $55.00 a week. I wouldn't be all that happy considering how sh*tty service has been, but that's reasonable.

 

As for cutting the other BMs, I disagree. What makes you think that all of these people drive in the first place???? This is not Staten Island. This is Brooklyn and even though those areas are considered more "suburban", they are far more "urban" than many parts of Staten Island.

 

Tsk tsk tsk... :mad: :mad: lol

 

1) I could really give a damn about any riff-raff coming onto the express bus, and I doubt raising the fare would deter them. I'm sure a lot of people use the LIRR instead of LI Bus or SCT, even though it's more expensive. They're not going to make a bunch of transfers even if the fare is lower.

 

Plus, the "riff-raff" are helping the MTA by giving them extra money at a time when the service doesn't cost too much to provide.

 

And I don't see anything cool about why the express bus is 3 times the local fare. Like I said, the higher ridership would justify more off-peak service.

 

And on paper, the express bus fare remained the same during the last fare hike, but remember that they cut the bonus, so the fare went from $4.78 to $5.14. The value of the unlimited pass decreased slightly relative to the pay-per-ride, but not by much (a person paying per ride would pay an extra $3.80 per week). (Plus, it's already a good deal considering it takes less than 5 days to break even)

 

As far as the BMs go, there is fairly frequent local service to all of the surrounding neighborhoods, so that defeats the "urban" argument right there. If they don't like it, well, there isn't much that can be done. They can either drive or take car service at their own expense or they can use the local bus.

 

Plus, I don't think there are as many people with a stigma against local buses as there are in SI (%-wise at least)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1) I could really give a damn about any riff-raff coming onto the express bus, and I doubt raising the fare would deter them. I'm sure a lot of people use the LIRR instead of LI Bus or SCT, even though it's more expensive. They're not going to make a bunch of transfers even if the fare is lower.

 

Plus, the "riff-raff" are helping the MTA by giving them extra money at a time when the service doesn't cost too much to provide.

 

And I don't see anything cool about why the express bus is 3 times the local fare. Like I said, the higher ridership would justify more off-peak service.

 

And on paper, the express bus fare remained the same during the last fare hike, but remember that they cut the bonus, so the fare went from $4.78 to $5.14.

 

 

LOL... I'm sure you couldn't give a damn, but believe me if you raise it high enough, they won't be able to afford to ride it. A lot of the riff raff on the X30 is basically GONE since the recession and now us civilized folks can ride in peace w/out the big mouths on their cell phones and the blaring music and such. I say Hallelujah!!! :cool: :tup: :tup: Now they just need to work on that damn X10... :mad:

 

Generally speaking, classy folks have more money than the seedy ones...

[checkmatechamp13]

LOL... I'm sure you couldn't give a damn, but believe me if you raise it high enough, they won't be able to afford to ride it. A lot of the riff raff on the X30 is basically GONE since the recession and now us civilized folks can ride in peace w/out the big mouths on their cell phones and the blaring music and such. I say Hallelujah!!! :cool: :tup: :tup: Now they just need to work on that damn X10... :mad:

 

Generally speaking, classy folks have more money than the seedy ones...

 

Well, enjoy your reduced service (and higher fares for you and everybody else) then. :mad: :tdown:

 

I'm sure those "seedy folks" were part of the reason why weekend service has been increased on the SI express routes.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well, enjoy your reduced service (and higher fares for you and everybody else) then. :mad: :tdown:

 

I'm sure those "seedy folks" were part of the reason why weekend service has been increased on the SI express routes.

 

Perhaps, but I mean really... 20 minutes instead of 30 minutes... I could live with the additional 10 minutes... Besides they're always late anyway, so we're not really seeing the benefits anyway and the buses would be a lot cleaner AND don't you want the to rake in more money?? Those folks can always take the local bus anyway, so it's a win win for the ... B)

[checkmatechamp13]

Perhaps, but I mean really... 20 minutes instead of 30 minutes... I could live with the additional 10 minutes... Besides they're always late anyway, so we're not really seeing the benefits anyway and the buses would be a lot cleaner AND don't you want the to rake in more money?? Those folks can always take the local bus anyway, so it's a win win for the ... B)

 

Well, at least if one bus comes early, the next one won't be as crowded.

 

And the off-peak fare isn't just getting more revenue from peak customers: It's saving money by having to run fewer buses during peak hours, and running more service off-peak when it is less expensive. Plus, with that plan, you might be able to have X10 service every 15 minutes on Saturdays (like what the X1 used to run like) and later service on the X14 and X30.

 

Plus, you know how I feel about higher fares. The only reason I'm suggesting a higher peak fare is because it's the most expensive type of service to provide.

[Future ENY OP]

Well, like I said, I'd agree with cutting the BM2/3/4/5, but the BM1 should stay to serve that area of Brooklyn. People can drive or take local buses to access it, and like you said, it has the highest ridership out of all of the BMs.

 

With an off-peak discount, and the riders from all of the other express routes, I can see the BM1 getting decent usage.

 

I don't think I mentioned this before publicly (though I mentioned it to VG8), but what do you think of this for the next fare hike (not that I would like one, but we all know it's going to happen sooner or later)

Subway/local bus fare: $2.50

Express bus fare: $6.50 peak and $5 off-peak.

 

Actually, I think it would be better if we had that fare structure now, but there was a 20% bonus. The local bus rides (with the bonus) would still come out to be about $2.10, and the average express fare would remain the same. Plus, they get the extra $0.25 from riders paying cash on local buses.

 

So would you send the BM5 for one exit on the Belt Parkway and then have it end at Avenue L/80th Street?

 

 

 

 

 

I'm going to disagree with you in regards to cutting the BM2 When there's a G.O on the line, there will be a need for the BM2. For 1 thing, there's decent ridership to warrant NOT to cut the BM2 on saturdays especially the return trips. There are parts of canarsie that are not covered by transportation e.g B6/B82. The is slow as shit on weekends (excuse my french), and the B41 has issues. I'm deeply surprised that the Brooklyn politicians aren't raising hell about this. I feel they are throwing more resources to the B103 (only speaking about BM2)

 

This is why The Bronx mostly get everything they want when it comes to transportation especially anyone living along the routes at Eastchester Depot. But I also fault the people who rely on Brooklyn express bus service on Saturdays to take a stand and let the MTA know that saturday service is deeply needed.

 

To your BM5 concern, The BM5 did come to canarsie at one point till it was cut only to serve Starrett City. I feel that It should come back to serve that back end of canarsie to help out the BM2, giving other options. Back then when it was command, If I missed the BM2, the BQM1 was a great feeder traveling down Ave M into starrett + East New York, than straight express to manhattan with no Queens stops.

 

I really don't understand this version of BM5 stopping in queens. Doesnt make sense to me. They really messed up a good super express to have it stop in queens.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well, at least if one bus comes early, the next one won't be as crowded.

 

And the off-peak fare isn't just getting more revenue from peak customers: It's saving money by having to run fewer buses during peak hours, and running more service off-peak when it is less expensive. Plus, with that plan, you might be able to have X10 service every 15 minutes on Saturdays (like what the X1 used to run like) and later service on the X14 and X30. B)

 

Plus, you know how I feel about higher fares. The only reason I'm suggesting a higher peak fare is because it's the most expensive type of service to provide.

 

 

Oh please... If you're against higher fares, then it should be spread across the board. :mad: :tdown: Us peak riders aren't the ones leaving chicken bones & sh*t on the bus to clean. Someone has to clean that stuff up, which means more cleaners would have to be hired to do so, which means more money would have to be spent by the .

[checkmatechamp13]

I'm going to disagree with you in regards to cutting the BM2 When there's a G.O on the line, there will be a need for the BM2. For 1 thing, there's decent ridership to warrant NOT to cut the BM2 on saturdays especially the return trips. There are parts of canarsie that are not covered by transportation e.g B6/B82. The is slow as shit on weekends (excuse my french), and the B41 has issues. I'm deeply surprised that the Brooklyn politicians aren't raising hell about this. I feel they are throwing more resources to the B103 (only speaking about BM2)

 

This is why The Bronx mostly get everything they want when it comes to transportation especially anyone living along the routes at Eastchester Depot. But I also fault the people who rely on Brooklyn express bus service on Saturdays to take a stand and let the MTA know that saturday service is deeply needed.

 

To your BM5 concern, The BM5 did come to canarsie at one point till it was cut only to serve Starrett City. I feel that It should come back to serve that back end of canarsie to help out the BM2, giving other options. Back then when it was command, If I missed the BM2, the BQM1 was a great feeder traveling down Ave M into starrett + East New York, than straight express to manhattan with no Queens stops.

 

I really don't understand this version of BM5 stopping in queens. Doesnt make sense to me. They really messed up a good super express to have it stop in queens.

 

My logic was that they could use the B103 to the BM1 (which would run more frequently), but if the BM2 sees decent ridership, then Saturday service should stay, and Sunday service could be added if there's enough demand.

[checkmatechamp13]

Oh please... If you're against higher fares, then it should be spread across the board. :mad: :tdown: Us peak riders aren't the ones leaving chicken bones & sh*t on the bus to clean. Someone has to clean that stuff up, which means more cleaners would have to be hired to do so, which means more money would have to be spent by the .

 

Well, that's a shame that a few messy people can mess up something that would benefit everybody (including themselves)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well, that's a shame that a few messy people can mess up something that would benefit everybody (including themselves)

 

It's only a shame that the fare isn't raised for the express bus... That would take care of that problem. Friggin' animals. :mad:

[checkmatechamp13]

It's only a shame that the fare isn't raised for the express bus... That would take care of that problem. Friggin' animals. :mad:

 

Yeah, but that's what I mean: It's a shame that they behave that way so that the MTA can't do something that would benefit everybody.

[Future ENY OP]

My logic was that they could use the B103 to the BM1 (which would run more frequently), but if the BM2 sees decent ridership, then Saturday service should stay, and Sunday service could be added if there's enough demand.

 

As far as saturday return trips (yes). I've been on those buses, and they do see decent ridership. As far as AM is concern. It's a hit or miss. The first bus and 2nd bus see good ridership after that. Totally hit or miss. if There's a G.O, on the best believe people will be taking the BM2.

 

I do also see the connection that you are making, makes sense in a way, but also you want to give people of canarsie a 2nd choice of bus service on saturdays. I've seen buses SRO on the 103 on saturdays.

 

So BM1 and BM2 should stay, and prolly the BM3.<---- They really need it more. and they need to cut the last bus to 1800 hours. It makes perfect logic sense, and just deadhead back to manhattan.

[B35 via Church]

What makes you think that all of these people drive in the first place???? This is not Staten Island. This is Brooklyn and even though those areas are considered more "suburban", they are far more "urban" than many parts of Staten Island.

beat me to it.....

 

In SI, to the ppl. that aren't taking express buses in express bus areas, the next option is to drive..

 

In Brooklyn, the ppl. that aren't taking express buses in said areas, the next option is to take the subway, then drive.....

 

 

Well, like I said, I'd agree with cutting the BM2/3/4/5, but the BM1 should stay to serve that area of Brooklyn. People can drive or take local buses to access it, and like you said, it has the highest ridership out of all of the BMs.

 

With an off-peak discount, and the riders from all of the other express routes, I can see the BM1 getting decent usage.

 

I don't think I mentioned this before publicly (though I mentioned it to VG8), but what do you think of this for the next fare hike (not that I would like one, but we all know it's going to happen sooner or later)

Subway/local bus fare: $2.50

Express bus fare: $6.50 peak and $5 off-peak.

 

Actually, I think it would be better if we had that fare structure now, but there was a 20% bonus. The local bus rides (with the bonus) would still come out to be about $2.10, and the average express fare would remain the same. Plus, they get the extra $0.25 from riders paying cash on local buses.

 

So would you send the BM5 for one exit on the Belt Parkway and then have it end at Avenue L/80th Street?

 

1) Sure they can, but most likely won't.... and sure that's the case for SI... However, folks in the other 3 outerboroughs won't be as quick to crank up the car on a weekend....

 

 

2) yeah, no one likes fare increases, but it's the nature of the beast unfortunately.... I didn't bitch about the last fare increase, and I won't do so with this one.... If the local/subway fare shoots up a whole dollar in one shot (for example), then I'll start complaining on the same level most ppl. will w/ this next 25 cent fare hike or w/e.....

 

I personally won't use the riff raff argument as a defense, but via does have a point.... I'd also expect expresses to shoot up to 7 something...... of course, when that happens, I'll be using them less.... It would be hypocritical of me to never ride the BxMc4 (what up GC) @ $7.50, and ride NYC's expresses at $7+....

 

All I know is, a $5.00 (local fare) is my limit....

When it reaches that point, I am moving the hell out of NYC....

 

 

3) That's one way to do it, but nah....

 

It'd do the same thing as BM5's do, entering brooklyn.... except, it would pan down linden blvd, to van siclen, to flatlands, to e 105th, to av M, to E 80th, to end at Av L.

 

last manhattan bound stop would be at penn/flatlands, then nonstop to midtown.

[checkmatechamp13]

As far as saturday return trips (yes). I've been on those buses, and they do see decent ridership. As far as AM is concern. It's a hit or miss. The first bus and 2nd bus see good ridership after that. Totally hit or miss. if There's a G.O, on the best believe people will be taking the BM2.

 

I do also see the connection that you are making, makes sense in a way, but also you want to give people of canarsie a 2nd choice of bus service on saturdays. I've seen buses SRO on the 103 on saturdays.

 

So BM1 and BM2 should stay, and prolly the BM3.<---- They really need it more. and they need to cut the last bus to 1800 hours. It makes perfect logic sense, and just deadhead back to manhattan.

 

Makes sense. So should Sunday service be added to the BM2?

 

1) Sure they can, but most likely won't.... and sure that's the case for SI... However, folks in the other 3 outerboroughs won't be as quick to crank up the car on a weekend....

 

2) yeah, no one likes fare increases, but it's the nature of the beast unfortunately.... I didn't bitch about the last fare increase, and I won't do so with this one.... If the local/subway fare shoots up a whole dollar in one shot (for example), then I'll start complaining on the same level most ppl. will w/ this next 25 cent fare hike or w/e.....

 

I personally won't use the riff raff argument as a defense, but via does have a point.... I'd also expect expresses to shoot up to 7 something...... of course, when that happens, I'll be using them less.... It would be hypocritical of me to never ride the BxMc4 (what up GC) @ $7.50, and ride NYC's expresses at $7+....

 

All I know is, a $5.00 (local fare) is my limit....

When it reaches that point, I am moving the hell out of NYC....

 

3) That's one way to do it, but nah....

 

It'd do the same thing as BM5's do, entering brooklyn.... except, it would pan down linden blvd, to van siclen, to flatlands, to e 105th, to av M, to E 80th, to end at Av L.

 

last manhattan bound stop would be at penn/flatlands, then nonstop to midtown.

 

1) Just to be clear, we're talking about people driving to another express bus, right? Not going all the way to Manhattan.

 

2) Well, we can complain, but there's nothing we can do for that.

 

As far as the local bus fare goes, by the time it goes to $5, I'd probably be old enough to move out, and I definitely wouldn't stay in NYC.

 

3) It seems like a waste by bypass Starrett City, but I guess there would be enough riders in Canarsie to justify a couple of buses.

[B35 via Church]

1) Just to be clear, we're talking about people driving to another express bus, right? Not going all the way to Manhattan.

 

2) Well, we can complain, but there's nothing we can do for that.

 

As far as the local bus fare goes, by the time it goes to $5, I'd probably be old enough to move out, and I definitely wouldn't stay in NYC.

 

3) It seems like a waste by bypass Starrett City, but I guess there would be enough riders in Canarsie to justify a couple of buses.

 

1) I'm referring to the latter; the folks goin to Manhattan....

 

3) It would be wasteful having buses serve canarsie & starrett en route to Manhattan, via Queens - due to the fact that it'd yield less riders.... that's basically a westward extension of the BM5..... No Canarsie rider would want to travel through starrett to get to manhattan..... Buses that would do that, would undergo the same ordeal those current starrett BM2's do...

 

There are significantly more express riders in Canarsie than there are in Starrett City itself.... Starrett City folks are far more worried about their B83.... It's no accident that BM5 usage overall is as low as it is....

[Amtrak7]

I agree on a peak/off peak pricing system for express buses. But what exactly should those prices be? 2.5 and 2 times the local fare, respectively?

 

As for pass prices: The $50 pass breaks even in 9-10 rides (exp fare with bonus is approx $5.12)

 

That's a pretty good deal. I think that they should NEVER raise the pass prices without raising the base fare. It's ridiculous.

 

To give you a comparison, here's how pass prices on LIRR and MNR are calculated:

 

-Peak fare is average mileage of stations in zone pair x mile price then round to nearest 25 cents.

 

-Weekly is 70% of 10x peak fare, then rounded to nearest 25 cents again. So it breaks even in ~7 rides.

 

-Monthly is 50% of 42x peak fare, then rounded to nearest dollar. It breaks even in ~22 rides.

 

Compare that with NYCT local fares:

 

$29 weekly breaks even in 14 rides

$104 monthly breaks even in 50 rides

 

That's way too high!

 

Following railroad methods, a weekly would be ~$16 and a monthly $47 or $48. Even if you were to eliminate the percentage discount and just use the 10 and 42 rides, a weekly would be $23 (11 to break even) and a monthly $95 (46 to break even). Or the MTA should figure out how many rides an average monthly/weekly is used for and base it on that.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

beat me to it.....

 

In SI, to the ppl. that aren't taking express buses in express bus areas, the next option is to drive..

 

In Brooklyn, the ppl. that aren't taking express buses in said areas, the next option is to take the subway, then drive.....

 

Not only that, but the more express bus riders I talk to on Staten Island, the more of them tell me that they don't like taking the subway. I was talking to this lady that has rode the X14 w/me for years and she refuses to take the subway. She says she doesn't feel safe using it and that's also something that I've heard before. Overall, Staten Islanders would be much more quicker to get in their car than to use anything outside of the express bus and I think I'm starting to understand why. Many of them may work in Manhattan, but they spend very little time in the city. They work and go back to Staten Island and many of them don't venture to the city unless they have to, particularly because of the hassle of getting back to Staten Island and the fact that many express buses on Staten Island only run during rush hours. If some of the rush hour buses ran later, then they would explore the city longer.

 

Of course on Staten Island many of them just drive and with them being relatively isolated on the island and not coming to the city often, it makes sense that so many of them are unwilling to use the subway.

 

I am shocked to hear folks that live in New York City talk about Manhattan the way that I hear folks on the express bus talking about it, especially on the X1. Many of them are "newbies" when it comes to the city (as in Manhattan), which explains why they stay on the express bus. I guess if you only come to the city every once in a while and don't have any subways, then you would stay on the express bus too.

 

Another thing that the lady told me was, she got thrown forward while preparing to get off of an X14 one night earlier this year. The bus stopped short because he was flying down Clove Rd and had to stop short and she was holding on to one of those chairs and it went flying forward when he stopped short and she went flying as well, even though she called herself holding on to the armrest. The bus had to be put out service and she was taken to the hospital with 3 cracked ribs and one broken one and did serious damage to her hand as well.

 

The actually came to the hospital to write up the report and they were almost certain that she was going to sue. LOL I know I sure as hell would be. The way some of those guys drive on Staten Island, I'm surprised there haven't been more accidents. There is way too much stopping and starting and jerking on the breaks. I've been lucky not to get hurt so far.

 

 

 

All I know is, a $5.00 (local fare) is my limit....

When it reaches that point, I am moving the hell out of NYC....

 

At $5.00 for local service, car service would be looking quite nice... :cool:

[checkmatechamp13]

1) I'm referring to the latter; the folks goin to Manhattan....

 

3) It would be wasteful having buses serve canarsie & starrett en route to Manhattan, via Queens - due to the fact that it'd yield less riders.... that's basically a westward extension of the BM5..... No Canarsie rider would want to travel through starrett to get to manhattan..... Buses that would do that, would undergo the same ordeal those current starrett BM2's do...

 

There are significantly more express riders in Canarsie than there are in Starrett City itself.... Starrett City folks are far more worried about their B83.... It's no accident that BM5 usage overall is as low as it is....

 

1) So how many of those people would be willing to drive to a different express bus? You said the order was generally express bus, then subway, then drive to Manhattan. Where would driving to another express route fall in that order?

 

3) Makes sense. So what is the density of the part of Canarsie that the BM2 serves? I know Starrett City is all apartment buildings, but what is it like in Canarsie?

 

I agree on a peak/off peak pricing system for express buses. But what exactly should those prices be? 2.5 and 2 times the local fare, respectively?

 

As for pass prices: The $50 pass breaks even in 9-10 rides (exp fare with bonus is approx $5.12)

 

That's a pretty good deal. I think that they should NEVER raise the pass prices without raising the base fare. It's ridiculous.

 

To give you a comparison, here's how pass prices on LIRR and MNR are calculated:

 

-Peak fare is average mileage of stations in zone pair x mile price then round to nearest 25 cents.

 

-Weekly is 70% of 10x peak fare, then rounded to nearest 25 cents again. So it breaks even in ~7 rides.

 

-Monthly is 50% of 42x peak fare, then rounded to nearest dollar. It breaks even in ~22 rides.

 

Compare that with NYCT local fares:

 

$29 weekly breaks even in 14 rides

$104 monthly breaks even in 50 rides

 

That's way too high!

 

Following railroad methods, a weekly would be ~$16 and a monthly $47 or $48. Even if you were to eliminate the percentage discount and just use the 10 and 42 rides, a weekly would be $23 (11 to break even) and a monthly $95 (46 to break even). Or the MTA should figure out how many rides an average monthly/weekly is used for and base it on that.

 

Yeah, 2 and 2.5 times the local fare would make sense (so it would be $6.25 peak rather than $6.50).

 

I could see why the break-even point would be higher in NYC. People simply use transit more. Many of the LIRR commuters probably travel 10 times per week to go to/from work, whereas in NYC, people not only use it for work: They use it to go out on the weekends and for after-work activities. I assume express riders are more like LIRR riders than local bus/subway riders.

 

But yeah, even considering that, I think the break-even point is too high. $23 and $95 sounds about right (though you missed the fact that $23*4=$92, and the MTA would rather people use the monthly than the weekly, so about $85 would be about right)

 

The problem is that the MTA's goal is to get a certain amount of revenue from the passengers, so in order to do that, they'd probably have to eliminate the bonus (7% isn't a whole lot anyway) and charge $2.50 to cash users.

[B35 via Church]

1) So how many of those people would be willing to drive to a different express bus? You said the order was generally express bus, then subway, then drive to Manhattan. Where would driving to another express route fall in that order?

 

3) Makes sense. So what is the density of the part of Canarsie that the BM2 serves? I know Starrett City is all apartment buildings, but what is it like in Canarsie?

 

- Hard to say... I would put those ppl. within the category of folks that (generally) take the express bus.... b/c here in brooklyn, the number of ppl driving to the BM's are very low (I would almost think it's non-existant; maybe a few folks on the 1 & 3, but that's about it).... most of that is being done on the x27/28; the 27/37 over the 28/38......

 

Good question though.

 

 

- Canarsie itself is mostly houses; solo/single & 2 family..... The part of Canarsie the BM2 serves, well, E 80th (more 2 family homes), Av M (even split of 1 family to 2 family), and E 105th (single family) are all residential blocks.... The surrounding side streets are mainly single family homes......

 

The major difference b/w Canarsie & here in East Flatbush when it comes to real estate... is the fact that there are much less apt. bldg's in Canarsie.... but they do have more housing projects w/i Canarsie (the BM2 only serves the breukelen houses - the last stop of the route)....

 

majority those bayview (projects) heads are piling on B42's.... that's the main reason that route sees the ridership that it does... the B17 is actually secondary.... BM2 goes nowhere near there...

 

as you know, Starrett is all high rise bldg's.... their transportation demands revolve around the & the ..... As far as I see, there will never be more of a demand for exp. bus service from starrett over canarsie.... there's too great a difference in (avg. income/household) b/w the two areas if you ask me.....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

- Hard to say... I would put those ppl. within the category of folks that (generally) take the express bus.... b/c here in brooklyn, the number of ppl driving to the BM's are very low (I would almost think it's non-existant; maybe a few folks on the 1 & 3, but that's about it).... most of that is being done on the x27/28; the 27/37 over the 28/38......

 

Good question though.

 

 

- Canarsie itself is mostly houses; solo/single & 2 family..... The part of Canarsie the BM2 serves, well, E 80th (more 2 family homes), Av M (even split of 1 family to 2 family), and E 105th (single family) are all residential blocks.... The surrounding side streets are mainly single family homes......

 

The major difference b/w Canarsie & here in East Flatbush when it comes to real estate... is the fact that there are much less apt. bldg's in Canarsie.... but they do have more housing projects w/i Canarsie (the BM2 only serves the breukelen houses - the last stop of the route)....

 

majority those bayview (projects) heads are piling on B42's.... that's the main reason that route sees the ridership that it does... the B17 is actually secondary.... BM2 goes nowhere near there...

 

as you know, Starrett is all high rise bldg's.... their transportation demands revolve around the & the ..... As far as I see, there will never be more of a demand for exp. bus service from starrett over canarsie.... there's too great a difference in (avg. income/household) b/w the two areas if you ask me.....

 

 

From my own observations, I think very few people are driving to any of the BM express buses. I mean who in the hell is going to drive to an express bus in Brooklyn?? Brooklyn is not that suburban first off and second, the mentality in Brooklyn is that people are more willing to walk than on Staten Island, so if they're going to actually drive to the express bus then they might as well just say f*ck it and drive to Manhattan. I mean, I have never seen anyone on any BM express bus get off and jump in a car. Completely stupid if you ask me. On Staten Island, there is a stigma against walking, whereas in Brooklyn, you see many more people out walking, regardless of what area it is, even the more "suburban" areas. That's just the way it is.

 

On Staten Island, part of it is because of the slopes and hills, but also for whatever reason, you have a ton of prima donnas that just can't be seen walking anywhere. Some of them are so arrogant that they have to run (literally) to their cars just so that it is clear that they are driving and not actually walking. I mean the whole thing is really ridiculous and then they wonder why the borough suffers from some of the highest rates of obesity in the city?? Really??

 

I mean yeah I use car service, but even if I had a car, I would walk to the express bus unless it was really far away because humans were made to get exercise and not just jump in a damn car to go around the block to the corner store. :mad: That sh*t really annoys me for some reason.

[B35 via Church]

On Staten Island, there is a stigma against walking, whereas in Brooklyn, you see many more people out walking

 

....and with that, I think you may have nailed it.

 

I actually didn't know there was a negative stigma regarding walking in SI (come to think of it, (I) don't see near as many ppl walking, not even along the infamous Hylan Blvd)..... but here in Brooklyn, people are very much willing to walk.... In my immediate area (E. 40's), it's very common to walk that 1/2 mile to catch the B46, or the 1/2 mile in the other direction to catch the 2/5.....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

....and with that, I think you may have nailed it.

 

I actually didn't know there was a negative stigma regarding walking in SI (come to think of it, (I) don't see near as many ppl walking, not even along the infamous Hylan Blvd)..... but here in Brooklyn, people are very much willing to walk.... In my immediate area (E. 40's), it's very common to walk that 1/2 mile to catch the B46, or the 1/2 mile in the other direction to catch the 2/5.....

 

Yep, if people see me walking along Slosson Ave, they'd certainly think that I was just going for a walk, esp. since I'm well dressed and such even though I'm dressed down with jeans and such, but maybe I'm wearing a pair of driving shoes and some straight leg pants. They'd say something "Yeah, nice day out isn't it?" LOL I mean of course there are people out walking, but the point is, they usually make it obvious that they aren't walking because they're too "poor" to afford a car or something. You may see two folks together walking slowly near that lake over by Martling Avenue or jogging along Forest Ave by Clove Lakes Park and then they'll have their little running or walking gear on. At least that's what I see along Forest Avenue in West Brighton and by the SI Zoo along Martling Avenue or Clove Rd.

 

Occasionally you do see the walker from the express bus, but that too is obvious because we look like we're coming from work (shirt & tie & slacks with the laptop case or briefcase).

 

The other night I took car service and the driver was chatting with me and asked me if I have a car and I said no and he acted as if there was something wrong with me for not having a car, even though he knew that I do next to nothing on Staten Island and basically am in the city just about everyday. He was like well, if you had a car then you wouldn't have to call us.

 

The thing that he fails to realize is that I've thought about the whole thing, and quite frankly I think it is completely stupid to have a car just to get to and from the express bus for the simple reason that #1, you go parking in someone's "space" on Staten Island and you'll come back and find your car f*cked with in some way or another and I would be pissed if that happened. #2, there is also the issue of if I take say the X30 into the office and then I need to stay late in the office past the time that the X30 runs, then what? I would have to take car service from another express bus to the car anyway, so why am I going to spend a good $600.00 - 800.00 a month just to say that I have a car to get to me to and from the express bus? #3 the roads are getting better, but for years folks were spending a min fortune getting their shocks & shit fixed, so when I heard that I said forget it for now. But that's how folks think on Staten Island and quite frankly, they would rather have a fancy far and be in a sh*t load of debt than have money and walk here or there.

 

Those without a car or those who are too young to drive yet will take car service to and from a friend's house, which is within walking distance, just because they're so obsessed with keeping up appearances and wouldn't be caught dead walking. In my case I only use car service to get from say the X1 the X2, X9, X10, X11, X17C/X17J or the X12/X42; basically any express bus that is not within walking distance to the house, but these folks will call to have someone pick them up from the express bus simply because they can't be seen walking. It really amazes me. Basically along Forest Avenue, I usually see mainly folks going for a walk, youngsters hanging out here or there walking along the street, and poor folks that can't afford a car or public transportation walking, passing through the neighborhood from Port Richmond usually and they're usually either Mexican or Black for the most part.

[checkmatechamp13]

- Hard to say... I would put those ppl. within the category of folks that (generally) take the express bus.... b/c here in brooklyn, the number of ppl driving to the BM's are very low (I would almost think it's non-existant; maybe a few folks on the 1 & 3, but that's about it).... most of that is being done on the x27/28; the 27/37 over the 28/38......

 

Good question though.

 

- Canarsie itself is mostly houses; solo/single & 2 family..... The part of Canarsie the BM2 serves, well, E 80th (more 2 family homes), Av M (even split of 1 family to 2 family), and E 105th (single family) are all residential blocks.... The surrounding side streets are mainly single family homes......

 

The major difference b/w Canarsie & here in East Flatbush when it comes to real estate... is the fact that there are much less apt. bldg's in Canarsie.... but they do have more housing projects w/i Canarsie (the BM2 only serves the breukelen houses - the last stop of the route)....

 

majority those bayview (projects) heads are piling on B42's.... that's the main reason that route sees the ridership that it does... the B17 is actually secondary.... BM2 goes nowhere near there...

 

as you know, Starrett is all high rise bldg's.... their transportation demands revolve around the & the ..... As far as I see, there will never be more of a demand for exp. bus service from starrett over canarsie.... there's too great a difference in (avg. income/household) b/w the two areas if you ask me.....

 

So as far as people who use express buses in eastern Brooklyn, how would you break them down as far as how they get to the route? Would it be something like 85% walking, 10% local bus, 5% driving?

 

So if say, the BM3 were eliminated, but the BM1/2 stayed, what percentage would walk to the subway, and what percentage would take the B49 to the BM1?

 

What's different about Starrett City vs. Co-Op City that makes the express bus usage so different? Does it have something to do with the being slower than the and ? I thought the would be faster because it has the .

 

From my own observations, I think very few people are driving to any of the BM express buses. I mean who in the hell is going to drive to an express bus in Brooklyn?? Brooklyn is not that suburban first off and second, the mentality in Brooklyn is that people are more willing to walk than on Staten Island, so if they're going to actually drive to the express bus then they might as well just say f*ck it and drive to Manhattan. I mean, I have never seen anyone on any BM express bus get off and jump in a car. Completely stupid if you ask me. On Staten Island, there is a stigma against walking, whereas in Brooklyn, you see many more people out walking, regardless of what area it is, even the more "suburban" areas. That's just the way it is.

 

On Staten Island, part of it is because of the slopes and hills, but also for whatever reason, you have a ton of prima donnas that just can't be seen walking anywhere. Some of them are so arrogant that they have to run (literally) to their cars just so that it is clear that they are driving and not actually walking. I mean the whole thing is really ridiculous and then they wonder why the borough suffers from some of the highest rates of obesity in the city?? Really??

 

I mean yeah I use car service, but even if I had a car, I would walk to the express bus unless it was really far away because humans were made to get exercise and not just jump in a damn car to go around the block to the corner store. :mad: That sh*t really annoys me for some reason.

 

Well, being raised in Brooklyn, I definitely have no problem walking. Hell, I've walked 2 miles without thinking twice.

 

Even though my family does have a car, I don't go crazy asking for lifts. In fact, I'm typing this from the CSI library, and it's about 1.5 miles from home. I could've asked my dad to drive me, but I didn't want to bother him. It's good exercise (that's a good part of the reason why both of us are pretty skinny).

 

Those without a car or those who are too young to drive yet will take car service to and from a friend's house, which is within walking distance, just because they're so obsessed with keeping up appearances and wouldn't be caught dead walking. In my case I only use car service to get from say the X1 the X2, X9, X10, X11, X17C/X17J or the X12/X42; basically any express bus that is not within walking distance to the house, but these folks will call to have someone pick them up from the express bus simply because they can't be seen walking. It really amazes me. Basically along Forest Avenue, I usually see mainly folks going for a walk, youngsters hanging out here or there walking along the street, and poor folks that can't afford a car or public transportation walking, passing through the neighborhood from Port Richmond usually and they're usually either Mexican or Black for the most part.

 

Screw appearances. No way would I go through all that trouble (and expense) to avoid being seen walking.

 

And for the last sentence, you missed Peruvians. (Technically it's plural when me and my brother walk together. ) Kidding of course.

 

But I think your neighborhood has more walkers than you're want to admit. I see a decent number of people walking to the bus stops and whatnot. I mean, the people waiting by Forest Avenue generally look well-dressed (at least southbound on the S53 and eastbound on the S48)

[Gorgor]

Via Garibaldi 8, I'm just really curious, how much does the typical car service ride cost for you? When I think of car service I think of a $65 trip to the airport, not like a couple dollars to go a short distance. For me when I'm coming home late and can't be bothered to walk from the train a cab ride is usually $7 with tip.