B35 via Church Posted September 11, 2011 Share #101 Posted September 11, 2011 So as far as people who use express buses in eastern Brooklyn, how would you break them down as far as how they get to the route? Would it be something like 85% walking, 10% local bus, 5% driving? So if say, the BM3 were eliminated, but the BM1/2 stayed, what percentage would walk to the subway, and what percentage would take the B49 to the BM1? What's different about Starrett City vs. Co-Op City that makes the express bus usage so different? Does it have something to do with the being slower than the and ? I thought the would be faster because it has the . 1) I would say less than 2% of ppl. catch a lift (via personal vehicle) to an express bus.... I'd say a little less than 10% of riders are coming off a local.... so if I were to give a breakdown, guess I'd put it at: - 90% of exp. bus riders are proximate to a BM.... - 8% are local-to-exp. commuters... [I fall into this category btw] - and 2% (for discussion purposes) catch a lift to a BM bus via personal vehicle.... 2) The number of ppl. that would take the B49 to the BM1 would be pretty low, I think; too long a ride on the local to catch the express (in their eyes).... You'd get more folks making their way to the BM4 (the % of ppl. catching lifts to the exp. bus would go up)..... again, this is all for discussion purposes, so I'd say, 70% of those displaced BM3 riders would make their way to the subway, and 30% would make their way to the BM1 (if they're close enough to av. K) or to the BM4.... me personally, I'd think the vast majority of that 30% would make their way to the BM4 - and demand more service on the 4, if that were to happen..... 3) Another good question. Think about what every local bus in co-op city does (meander before it gets to the subway) .... Now think about what the B82/83 does in Starrett.... - The demand for the exp. bus in Starrett is low b/c their commute to the subway is pretty straightforward, and subway service itself is reliable (that's the one good thing about the ).... Sure these folks xfer to the , but it's often at the first stop (Utica av)... - The demand for the express bus is far higher in co-op (compared to Starrett) b/c even though the is a reliable line, it has a tendency to lag in the bronx, and it's a local in manhattan.... they can (and 6 riders often do) xfer at 125th - but then you gotta deal w/ the crowds already in place/established on the .... the whole process amt's to a slow/long(er) commute.... It's 2 different dynamics at play.... I really do think Bronxites have longer commutes than us Brooklynites (even though they're physically closer to manhattan); subway service in the Bronx, lags, for whatever the reason.... Everyone I know personally that lives in the Bronx back at work, is dissatisfied w/ their commute... and there's quite of em too.... Come to think of it, I don't know any Bronxite personally that doesn't bitch about their commute in some form.... I mean they have the subway service, it's just... subpar/slow.... maybe it's due to timers, maybe it's due to the curves, I don't know... I'm more of a bus guy, maybe the more subway focused guys can shed light on that.... Speaking of shedding light, this may do so on the question regarding via's thread about Bx. expresses (I still think they get a wee bit (lol) too much exp. service in general though, but that's neither here, nor there).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted September 11, 2011 Author Share #102 Posted September 11, 2011 - The demand for the express bus is far higher in co-op (compared to Starrett) b/c even though the is a reliable line, it has a tendency to lag in the bronx, and it's a local in manhattan.... they can (and 6 riders often do) xfer at 125th - but then you gotta deal w/ the crowds already in place/established on the .... the whole process amt's to a slow/long(er) commute.... It's 2 different dynamics at play.... I really do think Bronxites have longer commutes than us Brooklynites (even though they're physically closer to manhattan); subway service in the Bronx, lags, for whatever the reason.... Everyone I know personally that lives in the Bronx back at work, is dissatisfied w/ their commute... and there's quite of em too.... Come to think of it, I don't know any Bronxite personally that doesn't bitch about their commute in some form.... I mean they have the subway service, it's just... subpar/slow.... maybe it's due to timers, maybe it's due to the curves, I don't know... I'm more of a bus guy, maybe the more subway focused guys can shed light on that.... Speaking of shedding light, this may do so on the question regarding via's thread about Bx. expresses (I still think they get a wee bit (lol) too much exp. service in general though, but that's neither here, nor there).... Well I was rather surprised that it took an hour to get to Riverdale and a little more than an hour to get back to Midtown from Riverdale. We weren't making that many stops and traffic wasn't that bad, but I actually started getting a little cranky coming back on the BxM1 because I was thinking sh*t, this commute is as long as my commute to and from Staten Island, so in some instance I suppose the express bus service is warranted, because as you say, their train service is subpar. On the other hand though, at least they have MetroNorth for Riverdale, even if it is only once an hour during most of the day, but that makes the commute just 25 minutes from Grand Central. In any event, that's why Staten Island should have express bus service longer, seeing that we have no MetroNorth or LIRR or any real rapid train service and SIR only serves one part of the island. I still think that in terms of punctuality and cleanliness, the Bronx express buses are far better than the Staten Island buses, and commutes to places like Morris Park is very quick on the express bus (just 30 minutes from the first stop), so I'm still sold on moving to Riverdale. :cool: It's far enough from the city to feel suburban, but yet urban enough not to be too suburban and you can walk and such to the express buses very easily. Via Garibaldi 8, I'm just really curious, how much does the typical car service ride cost for you? When I think of car service I think of a $65 trip to the airport, not like a couple dollars to go a short distance. For me when I'm coming home late and can't be bothered to walk from the train a cab ride is usually $7 with tip. Well here on Staten Island they go by zones, so from the house to the express bus is usually $9.00, though they charge $10.00 sometimes. Sometimes I'll make a stop and then take car service like I did tonight, and with tip it was $13.00. It's still way cheaper than having a car though, because sometimes I stay in and get some R & R and on those days I don't spend anything. I usually only need it during the weekends, or on late nights if I work late or hang out in the city or decide to take a later express bus since the ones by me stop running earlier in the morning. It's also a bit different here because they don't have meters and all of that like they do in the city, so it's just a flat fee. What I wish we has was that you could pay with your credit card. They like cash, so I usually take out enough for my ride to and from the express bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted September 12, 2011 Share #103 Posted September 12, 2011 1) I would say less than 2% of ppl. catch a lift (via personal vehicle) to an express bus.... I'd say a little less than 10% of riders are coming off a local.... so if I were to give a breakdown, guess I'd put it at: - 90% of exp. bus riders are proximate to a BM.... - 8% are local-to-exp. commuters... [I fall into this category btw] - and 2% (for discussion purposes) catch a lift to a BM bus via personal vehicle.... 2) The number of ppl. that would take the B49 to the BM1 would be pretty low, I think; too long a ride on the local to catch the express (in their eyes).... You'd get more folks making their way to the BM4 (the % of ppl. catching lifts to the exp. bus would go up)..... again, this is all for discussion purposes, so I'd say, 70% of those displaced BM3 riders would make their way to the subway, and 30% would make their way to the BM1 (if they're close enough to av. K) or to the BM4.... me personally, I'd think the vast majority of that 30% would make their way to the BM4 - and demand more service on the 4, if that were to happen..... 3) Another good question. Think about what every local bus in co-op city does (meander before it gets to the subway) .... Now think about what the B82/83 does in Starrett.... - The demand for the exp. bus in Starrett is low b/c their commute to the subway is pretty straightforward, and subway service itself is reliable (that's the one good thing about the ).... Sure these folks xfer to the , but it's often at the first stop (Utica av)... - The demand for the express bus is far higher in co-op (compared to Starrett) b/c even though the is a reliable line, it has a tendency to lag in the bronx, and it's a local in manhattan.... they can (and 6 riders often do) xfer at 125th - but then you gotta deal w/ the crowds already in place/established on the .... the whole process amt's to a slow/long(er) commute.... It's 2 different dynamics at play.... I really do think Bronxites have longer commutes than us Brooklynites (even though they're physically closer to manhattan); subway service in the Bronx, lags, for whatever the reason.... Everyone I know personally that lives in the Bronx back at work, is dissatisfied w/ their commute... and there's quite of em too.... Come to think of it, I don't know any Bronxite personally that doesn't bitch about their commute in some form.... I mean they have the subway service, it's just... subpar/slow.... maybe it's due to timers, maybe it's due to the curves, I don't know... I'm more of a bus guy, maybe the more subway focused guys can shed light on that.... Speaking of shedding light, this may do so on the question regarding via's thread about Bx. expresses (I still think they get a wee bit (lol) too much exp. service in general though, but that's neither here, nor there).... 1) Thanks. 2) I forgot to mention that this was relevant to the plan to eliminate the BM3/4/5 on Saturday to add service to the BM1/2 on Sunday, but I guess the same thing would hold true in that case (except the riders would pretty much all be going to the BM1) 3) Makes sense. So do the express buses get caught in traffic along 5th/Madison Avenue going to/from Midtown, or is it relatively uncongested (for Manhattan that is)? Also, I have a random question: You know how you mentioned taking dollar cabs? How do those guys make enough money? I mean, if you're going to charge $1, or even $2 just to carry 1 or 2 people to the subway, you're making less than minimum wage, and when you factor in the cost of the car, you're making practically nothing. I mean, I can see how a dollar van would make money, but the only way a dollar cab would make money is if the driver himself were driving to the subway, but then again, that type of person wouldn't want strangers riding around in their personal vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted September 12, 2011 Author Share #104 Posted September 12, 2011 3) Makes sense. So do the express buses get caught in traffic along 5th/Madison Avenue going to/from Midtown, or is it relatively uncongested (for Manhattan that is)? On the weekends it usually isn't a problem at all. For example, last Saturday the train was f*cked up big time (no service from Stillwell Ave to Prospect Park or something like that) and so I wanted to go down to Sheepshead Bay later in the day to my barber and run other errands first and then stop at the Shop & Stop for a few necessities and was considering taking the back to the city, but once I checked online ( website) and saw that, I just said forget it and just caught the last BM3 (16:20) back to the city. We picked up maybe 7 people or so going back to the city, which considering that the subway was knocked out is pretty low, but my thinking is that these people who were waiting along Ocean Avenue for the shuttle would not be willing to pay $5.50 when they probably complain about the $2.25, OR they may not have been going to the city since the buses and subways overall seemed to be quite light due to the street closures for 9/11. Going to Sheepshead Bay though was a pain because as usual, the had conflicting info. :mad: :mad: I went to Verizon to pick up a new phone there at Madison & 43rd (:cool:) and then walked over to my office to charge the phone and get it set up to my liking and relax a bit in my office, and then I saw a parade on 5th as I was entering my building, but didn't know what it was, so I checked the website to find out when I got to my office. The info they gave was that buses were being re-routed down Lexington and over to 42nd and then over to 5th and then regular, which would mean that the 5th & 40th st stop would've been along the regular portion of the route. While the X1, X10 and X17 were doing this as well as the local 5th Avenue buses, all of the Bus buses did not (i.e. Bronx express buses, Brooklyn express buses, etc). :mad: I get to the damn stop at 5th & 40th st and there is a sign saying that buses are stopping along Lex. making the same stops as they would along 5th, but they didn't say until when and the parade by then was further up in the 40s on 5th and the cops had traffic flowing up from where my office is by 5th & 45th. When I saw that I was furious because the BM3 only runs once an hour, so I waited a bit hoping that the sign was wrong based on what the website said, but then said they must still be running on Lex, so I had to schlepp over there, cursing the whole time of course. :mad: Luckily the B/O came a bit late, probably because he knows folks would need to walk a bit to get to Lex from 5th. I put my hand out so that he knew to stop for me and a few other folks waiting for him and when I got he said "I was looking for you." :cool: When there's detours like that then of course we're a bit delayed so I had to reschedule my appointment and run errands in Sheepshead Bay instead and then get my haircut afterwards there by Emmons, but coming back was pretty fast, even with the frozen zones or whatever since we didn't have to detour at all. Also, I have a random question: You know how you mentioned taking dollar cabs? How do those guys make enough money? I mean, if you're going to charge $1, or even $2 just to carry 1 or 2 people to the subway, you're making less than minimum wage, and when you factor in the cost of the car, you're making practically nothing. I mean, I can see how a dollar van would make money, but the only way a dollar cab would make money is if the driver himself were driving to the subway, but then again, that type of person wouldn't want strangers riding around in their personal vehicle. LOL... They call them "cabs", but they're more like "vans". I think they may hold maybe 8-10 people, maybe more, but that's why they drive like maniacs because obviously they need to pick up a lot of folks to generate anything. I have never used one, but I used to get quite annoyed when waiting for the B2 back to Midwood and those damn vans would come and block up the stop there by Kings Plaza. :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted September 12, 2011 Share #105 Posted September 12, 2011 LOL... They call them "cabs", but they're more like "vans". I think they may hold maybe 8-10 people, maybe more, but that's why they drive like maniacs because obviously they need to pick up a lot of folks to generate anything. I have never used one, but I used to get quite annoyed when waiting for the B2 back to Midwood and those damn vans would come and block up the stop there by Kings Plaza There are dollar vans (actual vans), and there are dollar cabs (actual cars).... - flatbush is 100% "vans" - church is 100% "cars" - utica's like 80% vans, 20% cars (the vans take you to kings plaza, the cars go no further south than Av. H) (any car acting as a cab you see @ Kings Plaza is a livery cab... None of em are dollar cabs) - The ones out in Queens are all vans, IINM.... Capacity.... The vans, it's 4 in the back, 3 rows of 3, and (if you're a woman, you get) the passenger seat - So that's 14..... Some drivers will try to get 1 more passenger (that's stupid enough) to sit on the "hump" that's formed from the back right wheel..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted September 12, 2011 Share #106 Posted September 12, 2011 Makes sense. So do the express buses get caught in traffic along 5th/Madison Avenue going to/from Midtown, or is it relatively uncongested (for Manhattan that is)? Also, I have a random question: You know how you mentioned taking dollar cabs? How do those guys make enough money? I mean, if you're going to charge $1, or even $2 just to carry 1 or 2 people to the subway, you're making less than minimum wage, and when you factor in the cost of the car, you're making practically nothing. I mean, I can see how a dollar van would make money, but the only way a dollar cab would make money is if the driver himself were driving to the subway, but then again, that type of person wouldn't want strangers riding around in their personal vehicle. - (In terms of congestion), I'd say 5th is worse than Madison.... but 5th isn't as bad as say, 7th (you can thank the pedestrianizing of B'way for this).... I'm not sure if that little comparison helps you visualize things any better or not.... I'd say 6th is probably the least congested of the four streets I'm comparing here.... - About the dollar cab/van drivers.... They have other side hustles fam, I'll just leave it at that.... 100% of their "income" aint off drivin up & down certain streets in brooklyn/queens - even if some drivers do it for 12+ hours on end..... I'm not exactly sure what you're tryna say in that last paragraph.... people jump on/off at any one point along the ride, fam... just b/c you dropped off 3 ppl. mid-ride doesn't mean you'll be ridin w/ that 1 passenger for the duration of the ride.... it's not like a WB B35 where you won't see anyone boarding at the 3rd av stop (b/c the next stop is the last stop).... But yeh, in general (about not makin money), well, that's why they cut each other off like mad... back in the day, the cabs used to work as a sort of "team" along church av (I scratch your back, you scratch mine).... this is when it was legal to fit 2 in the front (5 pax total)... now they can't do that anymore (if you have 2 in the front, your shit's gonna get towed), and cops take your earnings on the spot.. PLUS you gotta pay a hefty fine, w/e the amt. is..... ^^ Now, it's every man for 'em self (as far as the cars go).... Now they have to rely on side hustles more than anything.... The flatbush av vans (and some of the utica vans) however, a lot of em pool they money together, b/c they are part of a "street" team (get it...).... These cats still have their side hustles though.... You can usually tell who the lone wolves are (flatbush vans, I mean), just by how they drive (less aggressively).... that, and they don't have all that fancy shit plastered all over their vans.... There is a stark difference b/w dollar cabs & dollar vans (aside from the obvious)..... the ones that drive the cabs (cars) are generally older, and the van drivers tend to be younger..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted September 12, 2011 Share #107 Posted September 12, 2011 - - About the dollar cab/van drivers.... They have other side hustles fam, I'll just leave it at that.... 100% of their "income" aint off drivin up & down certain streets in brooklyn/queens - even if some drivers do it for 12+ hours on end..... I'm not exactly sure what you're tryna say in that last paragraph.... people jump on/off at any one point along the ride, fam... just b/c you dropped off 3 ppl. mid-ride doesn't mean you'll be ridin w/ that 1 passenger for the duration of the ride.... it's not like a WB B35 where you won't see anyone boarding at the 3rd av stop (b/c the next stop is the last stop).... But yeh, in general (about not makin money), well, that's why they cut each other off like mad... back in the day, the cabs used to work as a sort of "team" along church av (I scratch your back, you scratch mine).... this is when it was legal to fit 2 in the front (5 pax total)... now they can't do that anymore (if you have 2 in the front, your shit's gonna get towed), and cops take your earnings on the spot.. PLUS you gotta pay a hefty fine, w/e the amt. is..... ^^ Now, it's every man for 'em self (as far as the cars go).... Now they have to rely on side hustles more than anything.... The flatbush av vans (and some of the utica vans) however, a lot of em pool they money together, b/c they are part of a "street" team (get it...).... These cats still have their side hustles though.... You can usually tell who the lone wolves are (flatbush vans, I mean), just by how they drive (less aggressively).... that, and they don't have all that fancy shit plastered all over their vans.... There is a stark difference b/w dollar cabs & dollar vans (aside from the obvious)..... the ones that drive the cabs (cars) are generally older, and the van drivers tend to be younger..... But you would think they would invest in a van over a car to make the money faster. If a van gets 14 people, and a car gets 5-6 people tops, you'll make the money twice as fast driving a van. So what's your theory as to why there are more cabs along Church Avenue and more vans along Utica Avenue and Flatbush Avenue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted September 12, 2011 Author Share #108 Posted September 12, 2011 There are dollar vans (actual vans), and there are dollar cabs (actual cars).... - flatbush is 100% "vans" - church is 100% "cars" - utica's like 80% vans, 20% cars (the vans take you to kings plaza, the cars go no further south than Av. H) (any car acting as a cab you see @ Kings Plaza is a livery cab... None of em are dollar cabs) - The ones out in Queens are all vans, IINM.... Capacity.... The vans, it's 4 in the back, 3 rows of 3, and (if you're a woman, you get) the passenger seat - So that's 14..... Some drivers will try to get 1 more passenger (that's stupid enough) to sit on the "hump" that's formed from the back right wheel..... Holy shi*t... Learn something new every day... So how many people do the dollar cabs fit then?? :eek: - (In terms of congestion), I'd say 5th is worse than Madison.... but 5th isn't as bad as say, 7th (you can thank the pedestrianizing of B'way for this).... I'm not sure if that little comparison helps you visualize things any better or not.... I'd say 6th is probably the least congested of the four streets I'm comparing here.... Your takes on traffic is interesting... I find Madison to be congested from about 36th until 41st street since that area there always has trucks and such parking and blocking up traffic. After 42nd it usually gets better. 5th can be brutal at times. It can even be heavy at say 20:00 at night, usually from the 50s down until past 33rd street or so, but yes I think 7th Ave takes the cake, esp. now that they took away Broadway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted September 12, 2011 Share #109 Posted September 12, 2011 Holy shi*t... Learn something new every day... So how many people do the dollar cabs fit then?? :eek: lol @ the reaction.... the cars, it's just 4.... (3 in the back, and 1 in the front) as I said earlier, it used to be 5 (with 3 in the back, and yes.... 2 passengers in the front).... that stopped around what, '04-05.... But you would think they would invest in a van over a car to make the money faster. If a van gets 14 people, and a car gets 5-6 people tops, you'll make the money twice as fast driving a van. So what's your theory as to why there are more cabs along Church Avenue and more vans along Utica Avenue and Flatbush Avenue? Not excusing this, but you have more leeway to drive more reckless w/ a van on Flatbush & Utica, than you can on Church..... Young guys love us some speed - you aint gettin speed on church av.... The faster you can drive to get more people on your van, the more money you'll make... that's the attitude of the van drivers, and it's worked for years on flatbush av..... The passengers are definitely there along church, enough to run vans... I honestly do think if church av allowed for 1 more lane of traffic in each direction, you'd see a hell of a lot more vans.... There's more money (to be made) driving a van from E. 98th to E. 18th (church av cabs), than there is driving a van from eastern pkwy to kings plz (that's the utica vans).... a good chunk of utica van drivers now operate along flatbush.... more ppl. are flocking to B46's now than in recent years past (the [increase in] short turns along the B46 route helps assist in passenger distribution; which means a better %-tage of boarding a bus you don't have to sardine on) - It's a direct correlation.... This is what I think helped propel the B46 over the M15 in ridership when it did..... Along church av, there are a higher %-tage of buses are simply over capacity.... the B35 could have 1 min. headways during the rush (they almost, do, esp. in the AM, WB) & that still wouldn't be enough service to keep ppl. off dollar cabs.... It's that bad in East Flatbush - and you can thank the s*** service along Av. D, and the lack of an east-west bus b/w church & ENY av...... the B12 a] isn't enough; and b] passengers don't use it to (the extent to) catch the (2)/(5) like B8 pax & B35 pax do..... I'm just grateful that all these people don't own cars (or at the very least, do consider taking public transportation, or the dollar cab... lol).... or else it'd be bumper to bumper from east 18th to utica av (at least) every single day All of that, is pretty much my theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share #110 Posted September 13, 2011 lol @ the reaction.... the cars, it's just 4.... (3 in the back, and 1 in the front) as I said earlier, it used to be 5 (with 3 in the back, and yes.... 2 passengers in the front).... that stopped around what, '04-05.... Holw cow... So how exactly did they fit two people upfront?? :eek: And imagine if one was fat... Talk about a tight squeeze... Speaking of the new schedule, I must say that my commute has absolutely SUCKED hairy ones since the new schedules have come out. It took me over an hour and 30 minutes to get to work and well over 2 hours to get home on the X30. We spent almost an hour alone just trying to get into the Lincoln Tunnel. Thank God I had this friggin' Android with me, as I was listening to YouTube the whole time with the 4G blazing. :cool: It seems like the worst month in terms of traffic is September... All of the brats go back to school and the commute becomes miserable once again. And then we have the lovely UN session which crushes any hopes of normalcy. After being cooped up inside of the X30 for over two hours, I got off over by Forest & Broadway to apparetly get a first row seat to a near mauling. This little nothing of a dog was being walked and this big @ss dog saw it across the street and of course the barking started to heat up. What was really a shocker was that the big dog suddenly came off of the porch across the street and literally just crossed the street and came right where the little dog was and was ready to destroy him. I couldn't believe it, mainly because when he crossed, luckily for him there were no cars coming on Forest, as that little stretch in particular can be a mini Formula One. The owner of the little dog was sitting there literally dangling the dog around on that walker thingy with him hanging in the air trying to keep him away from the big dog and luckily the owner was a bit on the sloppy side and was able to hold the dog off, otherwise it would've been the last walk that that little dog would've ever taken. I actually found the whole thing hilarious, particularly the dog hanging like that. I laughed a good little while walking down Forest to the house and the owners came running over talking about "Bad dog" and the big dog sat down like he was ashamed. LOL Makes me wish I had a bottle of Perrier in my friggin' Whole Foods bag but the fridge is stocked with Pellegrino and Perrier so I just had a half container of Organic Valley Skim Milk in my bag along with leftovers for lunch, which obviously wouldn't have done much in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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