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This guy CANNOT become president...


SubwayGuy

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Like I said I think Obama has been a disappointment...but Mitt Romney is quite possibly the worst possible thing for this nation other than somehow bringing back Herbert Hoover, Alexander Hamilton, or George W. Bush.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/romney-jobs-plan-cut-taxes-slap-china-drill-201111301.html

 

"He would seek a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution, cut non-security discretionary spending by 5 percent, eliminate the estate tax and undo the 2010 health care overhaul championed by President Barack Obama."

 

OK with eliminating Obama's healthcare overhaul cuz it didn't do anything except be a dreamboat for insurers. Not to mention they would fall very much under the gun if they are blaming the "regulation" for rising premiums - well, if the regulation is undone, they'll have no reason to keep prices high POLITICALLY. That could set the stage for insurers to appropriately get their peckers nailed to the wall with a REAL healthcare system overhaul.

 

He wants to cut non security discretionary spending...yet another idiot who thinks that the astronomic defense budget is worth keeping at current levels but god forbid we educate kids properly, fix infrastructure, or fund federal services used by most Americans...

 

Eliminate the estate tax? You out of your f*cking mind??? That's the only tax that maintains a meritocracy in America...making it so one can only be wealthy if they work hard enough. Limiting (as is done now) or eliminating the estate tax allows money to pass too easily from generation to generation and gives too many rich kids an unfair head start in life. It flies in the face of a merit based society, and not only that, it takes tax dollars that can be used to benefit ALL of society - after the person who earned it has died and can no longer use it - and sends it to the most useless place of wealth storage in any economy...rich heirs. And HOW is any of this going to balance a budget? It's not. It's only going to make 99% suffer so that 1% can keep theirs.

 

"Romney called for lowering the corporate income tax to 25 percent, from the current 35 percent. That rate is high compared to other advanced economies, but a host of tax breaks allow many U.S. companies to pay little or no corporate tax. Romney said a lower rate would encourage companies to keep more operations within the United States."

 

I've spoken in favor of this, but without raising personal income taxes on high earners, you do NOTHING to encourage corporations to keep their operations in the US. A lower tax rate here is mostly symbolic...it might help a few small businesses that don't outsource and actually do things honestly, but without raising taxes on high earners you accomplish nothing except allowing more profiteering by executives (aka the corrupt).

 

"He would eliminate taxes on interest, dividends and capital gains for people making less than $200,000 a year. A campaign spokeswoman declined to offer estimates of the proposal's budget impact "because they are still being refined and finalized."

 

Even the article says this is ineffective and symbolic. A stronger measure would be to declare all interest, dividends, and capital gains to be ORDINARY INCOME with the exception of IRA's, Roth IRA's, and 401(k) accounts (which are the account types that people under $200,000 receive these types of "income" from).

 

"Romney said he would keep the Bush-era income tax cuts unchanged. Obama wants the cuts, which were set to expire this year, to disappear for the wealthiest taxpayers."

 

Not helping. Tax rates HAVE to go up on the rich to discourage them from profiteering and instead reinvest in their business. Tax loopholes like those surrounding stock options also have to close.

 

"Saying Obama has greatly expanded federal regulations, he proposed steps to ensure that new regulations won't cost employers more money. If a new set of federal rules raises costs for businesses, his plan would require other regulations to be eliminated as an offset.

 

He said he would sanction China for deliberately keeping its currency low, which makes Chinese-made products easier to sell abroad. The Obama administration has complained about China's currency policy but has not made it a priority in the two nations' relations."

 

Ambiguities...these mean nothing. Just puffing hot air. Regarding China, something needs to be done, but from a position of strength...aka when we've taxed the rich and used the proceeds to pay off Chinese debt...then they don't think they "own" us...then elected officials are not beholden to what those bastards say...then we can tell them to go screw and not create an international incident.

 

"Romney also accused China of stealing intellectual property, a common complaint among U.S. creators of technology, entertainment media and other products. He proposed a "Reagan Economic Zone," which would be a coalition of nations that respect intellectual property rights and seek expanded trade with each other. And he vowed to push stalled trade pacts with Colombia, Panama and South Korea.

 

Focusing on labor unions, which overwhelmingly back Democrats in elections, Romney said he would seek rules making it easier to defeat unionization drives and to prevent mandatory withholding of union dues from workers."

 

Trade pacts aren't what America needs. It needs to have tighter controls on the amount of things imported. Make all the Chinese shit in America and you'll solve unemployment.

 

Developed nations should maintain a "gentleman's agreement" to keep the shitty shit made by third world crap holes like most of the factories in China OUT (Shanghai and Beijing are NOT what most of that country lives like...wake up...). But you cannot sign formal treaties or else you are locked in...

 

Labor unions, while not perfect, are not the reason for the sudden bankruptcy of everything in America. Look no further than the super wealthy class of elites that has done nothing except enrich themselves at everyone else's expense...EXPONENTIALLY compared to the American worker. THAT's where your standard of living went America, and it wasn't a union's fault, and it wasn't a union worker's fault.

 

WAKE UP. WE DON'T NEED ANOTHER RICH IDIOT IN A SUIT CUTTING TAXES, CUTTING SERVICES, AND TELLING US THAT HIS BUSINESS ACUMEN IS SUPERIOR TO OURS IN THAT HE KNOWS HOW TO RUN A NATION BY DRIVING IT DEEPER AND DEEPER INTO DEBT TO PROTECT THE INTERESTS OF THE HYPER WEALTHY ABOVE ALL ELSE. THE CITY ALREADY HAD BLOOMBERG AND THAT WAS BAD ENOUGH THE LAST THING WE NEED IS SOMEONE LIKE THIS BECOMING THE PRESIDENT. TELL ROMNEY TO GO F*** HIMSELF.

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What the hell do you people what? This country ain't gona be any better then it is. No matter what president is in office people are still going to find something wrong. They ain't doing nothing for us and they damn sure ain't doing nothing for me. The rich will be richer and the poor shall be poorer. I see so much obama bashing going on and people are acting like he is the root of all the problems in this country.

 

Obama walked right into a pitt of fire anyways so it was going to be hard for him from the gate.

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Can't wait for VG8 reactions, as this will now doubt, lead to how i say a 'lively' debate between him and subway guy. Taking out the popcorn.:(

Gentleman lets keep this lively but civil please.:eek:

 

LOL... Blaming the rich seems to be SubwayGuy's main argument, as if the rich suddenly became rich yesterday. The rich have been rich for years and that isn't going to change regardless of whether or not a Democrat or a Republican is in office. While I agree with some of his comments, (i.e. redoing/eliminating this sham of a healthcare package), he makes it seem as if the rich is the main reason why the Chinese own so much U.S. debt. What he fails to admit or point out is the American consumer is OBSESSED with buying cheap goods and that's where some of the big problems lie. Cheap cheap cheap cheap and then on the same hand they complain about jobs being outsourced overseas.

 

You can't have it both ways. The American consumer on average does not want to pay anything for what they buy and they moan about American goods costing too much and then when all of the American companies ship jobs overseas they say "Oh there are no jobs!!" Wow, that's a shocker... :P Every company needs a healthy manufacturing base if they're going to remain strong and that's what we have lost and why we can't get out of this mess. You can only retrain so many people to do other things.

 

I think Romney needs to be a bit more realistic about getting tough on China and giving more tax breaks to keep American jobs here, BUT also heavily penalizing American companies who outsource jobs. People complain that wages aren't growing, but when you look and see what American companies have to pay in taxes and healthcare coverage, etc., etc. it is easy to see why wages aren't going up. I'm not saying that there is just one reason and I am certainly not going to put all of the blame on the rich.

 

With that said, we had a certain someone (aka Obama) that promised that he would get tough on China too and he has done NOTHING but brown nose at best and it's disgusting. Americans need to start taking more pride and buying more American made products and also becoming more educated about what they're buying. This is important because the economy is heavily based on the American consumer and their consumption and while I realize that buying American isn't the answer to putting this country back on track, it is certainly one thing that would help. Look at Germany. Their economy has done alright in this recession because they EXPORT. They make things in Germany (i.e. cars, invest a sh*t load in science and technology and so on and so forth) and all we keep doing is dragging our feet talking about how we need to invest in infrastructure and so on and making a war between the rich and the poor, etc. Some of the American companies are coming back now that the good old days of raking in the profits by outsourcing to China are starting to end, but the American consumer is the one that has the power to really change things. I know I certainly buy my fair share of "Made in USA" and am proud to say so. :cool: :tup:

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Ron Paul, Yet Republican and the media ignore him like he does not exist, the Republican want a stupid candidate like G.W and Rick perry will give it to them.

 

Via Garibaldi 8

Look at Germany. Their economy has done alright in this recession because they EXPORT. They make things in Germany (i.e. cars, invest a sh*t load in science and technology and so on and so forth

 

Unfortunately it make people like Citaro a NTF member from Germany that there better then any country with his charts. lol I hope that not all Germans are like Citaro.

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What the hell do you people what? This country ain't gona be any better then it is. No matter what president is in office people are still going to find something wrong. They ain't doing nothing for us and they damn sure ain't doing nothing for me. The rich will be richer and the poor shall be poorer. I see so much obama bashing going on and people are acting like he is the root of all the problems in this country.

 

Obama walked right into a pitt of fire anyways so it was going to be hard for him from the gate.

 

 

Agreed to the fullest!! Not to mention that Obama has to constantly "compromise" with the house (whom the majority is composed of republicans [no wonder they can never agree on anything lol])

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Unfortunately it make people like Citaro a NTF member from Germany that there better then any country with his charts. lol I hope that not all Germans are like Citaro.

 

lol... Well right now I'd say they certainly have a leg up on us in terms of their economy.

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236-obama-facepalm.jpg

 

--

 

Honestly, there is not one good candidate from any party this election.

 

You didn't have to put

tags around each instance of Bachmann... I think you could have just wrapped all of it in one.

 

I'm tired of the government in general. People wonder why Americans don't vote...

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...I personally think Michele Bachmann (though you obviously disagree with me) is a better candidate.

 

Oh sure, the same person whose husband runs a clinic that practices conversion therapy, a psychological treatment repudiated by the American Psychological Association, which attempts to transform homosexuals into heterosexuals...oh yea sure, trampling on the rights of people, sure, she would be a better candidate, a great one! The samer person whose husbad also said the homosexuals are 'barbarians,' that 'need to be educated' and that they need to be 'disciplined.' Sure, she would be a better candidate, a great one! NOT!

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Oh sure, the same person whose husband runs a clinic that practices conversion therapy, a psychological treatment repudiated by the American Psychological Association, which attempts to transform homosexuals into heterosexuals...oh yea sure, trampling on the rights of people, sure, she would be a better candidate, a great one! The samer person whose husbad also said the homosexuals are 'barbarians,' that 'need to be educated' and that they need to be 'disciplined.' Sure, she would be a better candidate, a great one! NOT!

 

 

Well her husband isn't running though, so I don't see what that has to do with her. That's like judging Obama based on the views of his wife...

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Well her husband isn't running though, so I don't see what that has to do with her. That's like judging Obama based on the views of his wife...

 

It has everything to do with her candidacy. She is the same as her husband in many respects. She co-owns the clinic in which that was practiced, she has double standard on gay marriage- one day she's saying that's it up to the individual states to decide whether to allow it, and then another moment she's stating that we need a goddamn constitutional amendment to overturn gay marriage all around the country, thereby butting in the state's decision on whether to equalize marriage or not. She has repeatedly stated her opinons to it, which are similar to those of her husband therefore they are both of the same. :mad:

 

BTW SubwayGuy, great response to Mitt. He's a jerk. Still, you've gotta give him props to at least proposing to standing up to China, something the Obama administration has been lacking the guts to do. MHV9218 is also right- there is not one good candidate from any party in this election. :cry: :mad:

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It has everything to do with her candidacy. She is the same as her husband in many respects. She co-owns the clinic in which that was practiced, she has double standard on gay marriage- one day she's saying that's it up to the individual states to decide whether to allow it, and then another moment she's stating that we need a goddamn constitutional amendment to overturn gay marriage all around the country, thereby butting in the state's decision on whether to equalize marriage or not. She has repeatedly stated her opinons to it, which are similar to those of her husband therefore they are both of the same. :mad:

 

Yeah, well she's not different from any other candidate... Flip flopper... In any event, I say leave the husband out of it. He isn't running for president she is.

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It's more like form their own nation on Pluto not on Earth.

 

Agreed :( but anyway, I see absolutely nothing even remotely promising about Romney for president. Most of this stuff is useless at best and dangerous at worst; we've spent the past thirty years giving things to the wealthy and large corporations on the assumption that some combination of charity and intelligent self-interest on their part would give the economy a shot in the arm and the savings and loan crisis, the Enron mess, and especially the housing market collapse have repudiated this theory. Someone or something needs to look out for the ordinary man and by extension America as a whole, and the aforementioned groups have proven themselves fundamentally incapable of doing so. By extension, then, it falls to the government to look out for the working class and the poor/unemployed to keep things from coming apart even worse.

 

On that note, Romney, Bachmann, and the Republican Party in general scare the shit out of me. While they are not directly abusing the working and middle class they seem intent on systematically stripping away every protection the working man has; the last time we did that was during the Industrial Revolution and the Gilded Age, and while it worked out OK in the end we had entire masses of people living little better than animals for decades on end until something was done and then a collapse that put damn near everyone on the street before things really began improving. Hell, even then it took World War II to pull the economy out of the crapper.

 

@VG8: I hear you as far as buying American is concerned, but what people tend to forget is that buying American costs money that a lot of people don't have. The cry for "cheap, cheap, cheap" is not a miser saying "Let me hoard my money" but rather a struggling man saying "Don't make me spend what I don't have to begin with." It becomes a vicious cycle, in which the average man can't afford to buy American goods, so more plants move offshore leaving more broken communities and paupers in all but name dependent on Chinese trash. We need the return of strong, high-paying blue-collar jobs to sustain our middle class simply because it's the only way American workers will be able to afford the goods they make and only then can we grow a strong enough manufacturing base to be able to export after the fashion of Germany.

 

To those who say this will happen on its own, I wish them good luck trying to find jobs of the sort I described that are not restricted to a very small pool of well-to-do professionals. I am not saying there is anything wrong with these men and women, but it is worth noting that there are simply not enough of them to sustain a domestic manufacturing base. Only 27 percent of the country gracuates college with a bachelor's degree or better, and that includes degrees in fields such as nursing that still pay very little. In reality I'd say no more than 5% of the workforce if that is comprised of people with the credentials and connections to obtain good white-collar jobs.

 

Thus, it becomes necessary for the government to enter the picture as an agent of change. It essentially becomes necessary for the government to force manufacturing back into this company through a combination of subsidies for companies who expand into the US and severe penalties for companies that continue to work offshore, and the expansion of unions and other mechanisms allowing workers to agitate for higher pay and more rights because that's the only way to rebuild a strong middle class in this country.

 

Obama hasn't been the best president, but in all fairness the man was handed a landslide in the process of happening when he was sworn in, has been hamstrung by one situation or another from the day he walked in the door, and has still managed to make baby steps toward a better way. As frustrating as this past year or so has been, baby steps in the right direction are far better than leaps and bounds in the wrong one. Romney, on the other hand, is a continuation of the old model of "give the rich and corporations what they want and they'll look out for us," which has not only failed but brought the country to its knees in the process, and any man who votes for him deserves the damage that will be visited on this country if he is elected.

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Does anyone else see the corelation between the rise of Walmart/China and the stagnation in wages over the last quarter century or so? I happen to think that they're connected in some way. I don't like Walmart but I can see why so many Americans shop there. If your wages haven't really increased in a generation yet you must feed and clothe your family I can understand your position. Subway Guy and a few others seem to see the big picture. The Republicans seem to instinctly blame the unions or other workers for America's economic plight while seeming to ignore the fact that it's the very corporations they suck up to that are the main cause of our troubles. I'm not talking about XYZ corporation who may employ 100-1000 people but those "too big to fail" American icons who have enriched themselves at the expense of the average American worker. I fault the politicians who supported TARP and the bailouts without stipulating that the money they got be used to increase employment, investing, in America instead of hoarding the money, buying out other companies, or paying themselves bonuses. The Democratic party isn't much better in this regard either I might add. Until a responsible third or fourth movement(party) rises up it appears that this fragmentation in American politics is going to hamper any hope for a return to economic prosperity. Just my opinion though. Carry on. BTW notice I said a responsible alternative. There isn't one yet.

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:checks thread: :leaves thread:

=

Joking aside: I have no faith in either party. In the end the puppetmasters will get their way in the end. People here that still thinks it's Democrat vs GOP or Liberal vs Conservative are delusional. We will never be free if we are still bound by the same idiotic 2-party system. It's a duopoly, there's no competition against them, thus the status quo of the same shit by the same parties.

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