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GreatOne2k

Cost neutrality service changes

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service changes the 'cost neutral' way

 

service additions

 

1. Expanding the PM rush hour on the Concourse

 

(:) will be extended from 145 St to Bedford Park from 3:38pm to 9:27pm

(D) express will run from 3:41pm-9:00pm

 

2. The (B) train arriving at 145 St at either 9:27am, or 9:33am will be extended to Bedford Park instead of running OOS on the Concourse line.

 

3. (M) train extended on Saturdays

 

The (M) train will be extended from Myrtle Avenue to 71 Avenue on Saturdays from 8am to 8pm. Last trains from each terminal will leave around 8pm.

 

4. Later (5) service on Friday and Saturday nights

 

The (5) train will be extended from E 180 St and Bowling Green Friday Nights (10:13pm-11:59pm S/B, 11:20pm-1:13am N/B) and Saturday Nights (9:31pm-11:59pm S/B, 10:41pm-1:13am N/B)

(5) trains will match the (4) trains headways running at 12-15 minute headways. (5) trains will run until the Lexington Avenue express service ends. The (4) will have relief either with the (5) until 1:13am or the (6) after 1:13am

 

 

5. Run the (C) later on Friday and Saturday nights (last trains leaving 168 and Euclid around midnight). (A) will run express until right after midnight as well.

 

cuts

 

1. (B) evening service hours will be cut back

 

Last (B) from Bedford Park leaves at 8:27pm (145 St at 8:45pm)

Last (B) from Brighton Beach leaves at 8:23pm

 

2. (M) evening service cut back weekday evenings

 

Last (M) from 71 Avenue leaves at 8:56pm

Last (M) from Metropolitan Avenue leaves at 9:11pm

 

3. (Q) cut back from Astoria to 57 St weekdays from 10am-3pm, and after 9:30pm

 

4. (R) service cut between 36 St and 71 Av extra 2 hours in both directions on Sunday mornings ((R) shuttle Sunday morning hours extended). (N) will have to run via Tunnel for an extra 2 hours, (E) will also have to run local for an extra 2 hours early Sunday mornings.

 

5. Terminate the (J) train at Chambers Street weekdays 9pm-6am.

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Replies in red. Overall not bad suggestions.

 

 

 

service changes the 'cost neutral' way

 

service additions

 

1. Expanding the PM rush hour on the Concourse

 

'B' will be extended from 145 St to Bedford Park from 3:38pm to 9:27pm

'D' express will run from 3:41pm-9:00pm

 

2. The 'B' train arriving at 145 St at either 9:27am, or 9:33am will be extended to Bedford Park instead of running OOS on the Concourse line.

 

Other than your (C) line proposal, I agree 1,000%. As soon as the (MTA) gets extra $$$ the 'C' expansion and expanded (B) weekday evening service on Concourse until at least 10pm is needed. However during Yankee games and other events at the stadium I would still have alternative or every other 'D' run as Concourse local to help out the 'B'. If anyone has not noticed, the 205th-bound 'D' between 8-10pm weeknights is crushloaded on many trips between 59th and say Fordham Rd stations..

 

 

3. 'M' train extended on Saturdays

 

The 'M' train will be extended from Myrtle Avenue to 71 Avenue on Saturdays from 8am to 8pm. Last trains from each terminal will leave around 8pm.

 

4. Later '5' service on Friday and Saturday nights

 

The '5' train will be extended from E 180 St and Bowling Green Friday Nights (10:13pm-11:59pm S/B, 11:20pm-1:13am N/B) and Saturday Nights (9:31pm-11:59pm S/B, 10:41pm-1:13am N/B)

'5' trains will match the '4' trains headways running at 12-15 minute headways. (5) trains will run until the Lexington Avenue express service ends. The '4' will have relief either with the '5' until 1:13am or the '6' after 1:13am

 

 

That a great idea. Personally at this point, the '5' should run overnights at least between Dyre and 149th-Grand Concourse to provide a direct connection to the '4'. The '5' during snowstorms/other bad weather is already extended to 149-GC so why not all the time?

 

5. Run the (C) later on Friday and Saturday nights (last trains leaving 168 and Euclid around midnight). (A) will run express until right after midnight as well.

 

How about 7 days a week for expanded (C) service? 11pm is too early to have the 'A' especially traveling to/from Far Rockaway run local in both Manhattan and Brooklyn. My idea to cut costs would be to have the 'A' run local until 8am on Sunday/Major Holiday Mornings.

 

cuts

 

1. (B) evening service hours will be cut back

 

Last (B) from Bedford Park leaves at 8:27pm (145 St at 8:45pm)

Last (B) from Brighton Beach leaves at 8:23pm

 

Disagree. The (Q) was jam packed on Brighton Line, well past 10pm before the "B' had expanded weekday evening service couple of years back. Leave it the expanded "B" evening service as it.

 

 

2. (M) evening service cut back weekday evenings

 

Last (M) from 71 Avenue leaves at 8:56pm

Last (M) from Metropolitan Avenue leaves at 9:11pm

 

Only major proposal I disagree. Other than bringing back weekend/overnight 'G' service (doubtful it will happen)best option is 1)expanded 'R' service 2)My 'radical' idea of running the 'E' Local weekend late evenings/overnights 9pm-6am to help out the 'R' when Queens Center and other QB shopping centers are about to close.

On ending weekday evening service to 6th Ave/QB i have only riden the (M) 2x since it merged with the 'V' so i let someone else offer their comments here.

 

3. (Q) cut back from Astoria to 57 St weekdays from 10am-3pm, and after 9:30pm

 

I have not been on the Astoria line on a weekday evenings in while (been on it on Saturday/Sunday though)so not sure of the ridership evenings since the (W) was cut. I am sure the other guys who ride the (N) can better comment on weekday evening service.

However i think to avoid confusion and maintain 'help' for the 'N' I think every other 'Q' weekday middays should still run to/from Ditmars and the rest to 57/7th.

 

4. (R) service cut between 36 St and 71 Av extra 2 hours in both directions on Sunday mornings ((R) shuttle Sunday morning hours extended). (N) will have to run via Tunnel for an extra 2 hours, (E) will also have to run local for an extra 2 hours early Sunday mornings.

 

 

Only if that means the 'R' can run the 'full route' between Bay Ridge and Forest Hills via Manhattan until around 1am 7 days a week should Sunday Morning 'N' and 'E' local service run a little later.

 

I actually a few months back made a proposal that all NYCT subway service (other than the Lex (4)(6) lines) run overnight service until 7am Sunday/Holidays.

 

5. Terminate the (J) train at Chambers Street weekdays 9pm-6am.

Too early to close. People on Wall Street can work later, so if needed close the Broad and Fulton stations on 'J' weekdays only 1230am-5am.

 

 

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One problem it seems that the word "cost" only seems to imply "money", while it is recognized that there can be "costs" that are not money related, but also painful. Just be mindful as your proposals are made.

 

Mike

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It'd be cheaper to run the (G) to Forest Hills on weekends or making the (E) local on weekends than extending the (M).

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Most of these ideas will require extra crews, and extra trains. This will only add to cost measures and not save anything. Remember you are paying people more, and running trains more. This will increase the upkeep cost of trains, and people are working more hours so you have to pay them more. Not much of these ideas are any good except for the (B) on the Concourse during the PM Rush, and local (G) service during the weekend on the IND Queens Boulevard Line. The IND Queens Boulevard Line is the only line which needs extra local service on the weekends as it is already crowded. The (G) is a 24/7 line and is best fit for the job.

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Most of these ideas will require extra crews, and extra trains. This will only add to cost measures and not save anything. Remember you are paying people more, and running trains more. This will increase the upkeep cost of trains, and people are working more hours so you have to pay them more. Not much of these ideas are any good except for the (:( on the Concourse during the PM Rush, and local (G) service during the weekend on the IND Queens Boulevard Line. The IND Queens Boulevard Line is the only line which needs extra local service on the weekends as it is already crowded. The (G) is a 24/7 line and is best fit for the job.

 

The (5) and (C) running later isn't a good idea?

 

If MTA had the $$ they would rather run the (M) on weekends rather than bring the (G) back on QB.

 

The (G) doesn't enter Manhattan, the (E) or (R) would still be jammed at some point.

 

Other lines other than QB could use weekend service increases, the (2),(3), and (5) should have 10 minute headways at least on Saturdays, not 12 minutes.

 

To expand the (:) on Concourse something needs to be cut. The (Q) on Astoria during middays looks like an easy target for any cost savings.

 

http://www.subchat.com/read.asp?Id=1079077

http://www.subchat.com/read.asp?Id=1079142

http://www.subchat.com/read.asp?Id=1079243

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Responses in red.

 

service changes the 'cost neutral' way

 

service additions

 

1. Expanding the PM rush hour on the Concourse

 

(:( will be extended from 145 St to Bedford Park from 3:38pm to 9:27pm

(D) express will run from 3:41pm-9:00pm

 

2. The (:) train arriving at 145 St at either 9:27am, or 9:33am will be extended to Bedford Park instead of running OOS on the Concourse line.

 

Looks like extension for extension sake.

 

3. (M) train extended on Saturdays

 

The (M) train will be extended from Myrtle Avenue to 71 Avenue on Saturdays from 8am to 8pm. Last trains from each terminal will leave around 8pm.

 

Not needed. The (L) to the (F) is a very suitable alternative

 

4. Later (5) service on Friday and Saturday nights

 

The (5) train will be extended from E 180 St and Bowling Green Friday Nights (10:13pm-11:59pm S/B, 11:20pm-1:13am N/B) and Saturday Nights (9:31pm-11:59pm S/B, 10:41pm-1:13am N/B)

(5) trains will match the (4) trains headways running at 12-15 minute headways. (5) trains will run until the Lexington Avenue express service ends. The (4) will have relief either with the (5) until 1:13am or the (6) after 1:13am

 

Not needed. The reason the (4) runs local is because a lot of the night scenes along the east side are at local stations. And (5) service past 11:30 isn't necessary on any day.

 

cuts

 

1. (B) evening service hours will be cut back

 

Last (B) from Bedford Park leaves at 8:27pm (145 St at 8:45pm)

Last (B) from Brighton Beach leaves at 8:23pm

 

Bad idea. Throwing Brighton residents to the (Q) isn't going to sit well. The (B) has significant patronage beyond 8pm, and this plan forsakes them for the sake of Bronx residents who may not exactly be packing on those (B) trains beyond 145. This seems like an extension for extension sakes.

 

2. (M) evening service cut back weekday evenings

 

Last (M) from 71 Avenue leaves at 8:56pm

Last (M) from Metropolitan Avenue leaves at 9:11pm

 

I actually agree with this one somewhat...

 

4. (R) service cut between 36 St and 71 Av extra 2 hours in both directions on Sunday mornings ((R) shuttle Sunday morning hours extended). (N) will have to run via Tunnel for an extra 2 hours, (E) will also have to run local for an extra 2 hours early Sunday mornings.

Why?

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An extension for extensions sake, really?

 

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=472708#post472708

 

And the Brighton Line will still have the (:P going back to Brooklyn well after 9pm.

 

The (4) doesn't run local until after 1am. Some (5) riders also have a three seat ride when the last (5) leaves Bowling Green. Nevermind the (2) is still crowded after 9:30pm on Saturday nights (going S/B in the Bronx).

 

The (R) shuttle is a cost saving measure since there are less riders on Sunday mornings. Does QB need 3 services at 5-6am on Sunday?

 

Is QB busier than the Lex on Sunday morning (5-7am)?

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Great one you never read my replies? The only ideas i agree with was extending the hours of the last trains of the (C) and (R) till at least 1230am. While extending the (5)late evning would be better served IMO by extending it to 149th-GC.

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An extension for extensions sake, really?

 

 

Nova RTS was referring to running that single (:( interval at the end of the AM Rush Hour to Bedford Park Blvd being an extension for extension's sake, not the expansion of PM Rush Hour Concourse Express. I think we can all agree that's needed.

 

I have some ideas too...

 

1. For the (A) train. Increase PM Rush Hour service a little bit. I would start by adding an 2 extra trains to Rockway Park (not just to provide additional straight service for the B116 St branch, but for the line in general)

 

So out of 168th St, instead of being:

 

4:03 PM

4:22

4:43

5:02

5:23

 

The Rock Park (A) schedule would be

 

3:45 (roughly)

4:03

4:22

4:43

5:02

5:23

5:42 (roughly)

 

I want to extend the time the (5) runs into Brooklyn a little bit.

 

Currently, the last (5) to Flatbush leaves Dyre at 7:02, and the 7:12, 7:22 and 7:32, and 7:42 trains head to Utica/New Lots Av to lay-up. However, I would re-route those four trains to Flatbush, to accomaodate the last of the rush-hour crowd, and relieve overcrowding on Flatbush-bound (2) trains during that time. The last Bronx-bound (5) out of Flatbush would leave at 9:08 PM instead of 8:28 PM. To replace those four trains that go to Utica/New Lots to lay up, there would be four new trains running to Utica/New Lots leaving Dyre at 7:52, 8:02, 8:12 and 8:22-ish.

 

tl;dr version - Extend (5) service to Flatbush by about 40 minutes and four extra train intervals. Not too demanding, is it? :P

 

Lastly, I think there should be more (1) service going Uptown. Between 96 and 137 (really even earlier, from 34th or 42nd St even), those trains can really get packed. And before you mention the short-turns to 137th St, they don't start until the 8:00 hour, by which time most of the school kids along the line (ppl from my school included) are already in school. I think the (MTA) should start the short-turns to 137th St earlier. I mean, lots of school kids and college kids are riding uptown and going to school during the 7:00 hour, and the (1) is still only running every 7-10 minutes during this time.

 

Oh that's right. I almost forgot about which services to cut to make these ideas of mine cost-neutral! How about none? :P

 

EDIT: W00t! 600th post!

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Great one you never read my replies? The only ideas i agree with was extending the hours of the last trains of the (C) and (R) till at least 1230am. While extending the (5)late evning would be better served IMO by extending it to 149th-GC.

 

You seem to be offended whenever someone doesn't respond to your posts, or a particular question.

 

It would help if the (5) went to Manhattan from Dyre until at least 11pm first in order to avoid delaying too many (2) trains for the (5) relay.

 

The (2) is still running 12 minute headways at 9-10pm when the last (5) currently runs. if the (2) is late at all, bunching could be made worse by the (5) getting in the way.

Edited by GreatOne2k

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Nova RTS was referring to running that single (:P interval at the end of the AM Rush Hour to Bedford Park Blvd being an extension for extension's sake, not the expansion of PM Rush Hour Concourse Express. I think we can all agree that's needed.

 

 

He mentioned in both places, including when discussing evening (:P service.

 

Extending one of those (:( trains can actually prevent delays at 145 since there are two (B) trains scheduled to terminate at 145 in that time period, and only one of those trains goes back in service. If the (B) is bunched up, can you say delays, unless they can get that (B) fumigated at 145 quickly, then go OOS. Makes sense to just run it in service anyway since it is already going up there. It is like the first and last 3 Brooklyn (W) trains that used to run.

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He mentioned in both places, including when discussing evening (:P service.

 

Nova RTS' response was placed under #2, which makes me think he was only referring to #2. After all, #1 is kind of a given.

 

And while we're at it, (:P service should start about a half-hour earlier in the PM Rush. For teh schoolkids, of course. But really, from 3:30-4:00ish (D) trains are leaving and entering the Bronx crowded while the (:( trains turn around at 145th pretty empty.

 

While it's true people getting on at 145th St (including a few folk from my school) will lose their guaranteed seats on the (B), I think the less crowded (D) trains and extra Concourse service are far worth it.

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Nova RTS' response was placed under #2, which makes me think he was only referring to #2. After all, #1 is kind of a given.

 

And while we're at it, (:P service should start about a half-hour earlier in the PM Rush. For teh schoolkids, of course. But really, from 3:30-4:00ish (D) trains are leaving and entering the Bronx crowded while the (:P trains turn around at 145th pretty empty.

 

While it's true people getting on at 145th St (including a few folk from my school) will lose their guaranteed seats on the (:(, I think the less crowded (D) trains and extra Concourse service are far worth it.

 

 

Go down towards then end, he mentions it again when talking about the Brighton service cut and the (B) being expanded to the Bronx.

Check cuts #1 (B) evening service hours cut back.

 

Bad idea. Throwing Brighton residents to the (Q) isn't going to sit well. The (B) has significant patronage beyond 8pm, and this plan forsakes them for the sake of Bronx residents who may not exactly be packing on those trains beyond 145. This seems like an extension for extension sakes.

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