September 2011 Committee Changes

[Cait Sith]

now you have a point ok at least you come down to earth this POP idea of mine is not an emergency just a nice perk. So with buses coming on time and showing up I will have to agree with you here. I have cooled off for now. So I am not a frequent rider so I wasn't burned hard by buses not showing up. I did hear about QM15 doing that when I walked to the bus stop the bus pulled in as soon as I got there however the ppl waiting there told me they were there for an hour. What soultions would you propose to solve that issue???

 

What are you talking about, I didnt even agree with your bloody idea, nor was I even talking about it... Stop talking nonsense...prime example of you lacking some common sense....

 

And even if I did, my solution would be simple...NO POP FOR EXPRESS ROUTES

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[qjtransitmaster]

QJ, consider this before you open your mouth again and force me to go dig out the golf clubs...

 

under your plan, the express bus passengers would buy thier tickets on the curb and show them to the driver s the board.

 

explain to me how showing the ticket to the driver will help these

 

Boarding speed:

 

If they have to show the ticket to driver he or she will need to look at the ticket to make sure it is a legit ticket. unless they are printied on completly diffrent paper and in completly diffrent ways from the SBS tickets, the driver will need to be sure that they're not trying to sneak on with a $2.25 SBS ticket instead of the $5.50 express price.

 

This will probibly result in loading speeds no diffrent than the current system.

 

Fare evasion.

 

Like I said, diffrent tickets would be needed to speed loading under your plan, as just showing the driver the paper ticket is not enough, they need to know that ticket if for that price. then they need to look at it closely.

 

Now, I perseoanly have been checked for POP three times in my life on a honor system style operation. Twice on NJT, once on Sound Transit in Seattle. Once at hoboken; I had a college free pass, and made right for the hblr train, the cops were standing there, saw me, called me over, and I nearly missed my train from them looking at the pass in amazement. Once on the river line (same week, same pass, cops get on the train and start asking my honestly interested questions, though this time about my cameria). And then once on Seattle Central Link, didn't have a ticket had their smart card ORCA, you just show the card. inspectors got on the train, doors closed, trains started moving and they anncounced thier presence.

 

My point is in these three instances, the inspectors were ether waiting at the station, or they checked you while between stops. They didn't get in the way of the process of boarding.

 

 

YOUR IDEA GETS IN THE WAY OF THE PROCESS OF BOARDING THE BUS, WHICH MAKES CURB SIDE PAYMENT POINTLESS, SINCE THAT'S WHY YOU BUY BEFOREHAND, TO GET ON FASTER!

The ticket would be designed differently and color coded so it's completely different from local SBS thus eliminating that problem

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[youngblaze]

you still not getting the point that making the driver into a fare checker doesn't speed up the boarding at any way, shape or form. It would be no diffrent that it is now.

 

another point i realized is that the amount of traffic on an express bus lines doesn't offset the cost of putting those machines in and keeping them working. the SBS lines run 18 hours a day, 7 days a week at the least, on short headways and thier tickets are vaild on the corisponding local routes.

 

Many of the express buses barley run 6-10 hours a day, if your lucky, don't run on the weekends and can be over half an hour apart. that's a lot of idle time for some rather expensive machines.

 

 

Agreed, It wouldn't be cost effective. After all this is a business.

[qjtransitmaster]

you still not getting the point that making the driver into a fare checker doesn't speed up the boarding at any way, shape or form. It would be no diffrent that it is now.

 

another point i realized is that the amount of traffic on an express bus lines doesn't offset the cost of putting those machines in and keeping them working. the SBS lines run 18 hours a day, 7 days a week at the least, on short headways and thier tickets are vaild on the corisponding local routes.

 

Many of the express buses barley run 6-10 hours a day, if your lucky, don't run on the weekends and can be over half an hour apart. that's a lot of idle time for some rather expensive machines.

 

interesting. This point is valid and non smacking. What about expanded contactless payments for express rtes and then increase the cash fare but drop the contactless fare. The machines I wonder if they can be offset by favoring metrocards. Where cash fare is increased BUT metrocard fare isn't

[JAzumah]

I would disagree, especially with Staten Island routes, that would take even more time to inspect those who paid and didnt pay, the inspections themselves would do more damage in terms of time. Not to mention we do have exp routes where there happens to be standees....inspecting the riders would be a problem because of the narrow space and would delay the bus if there were a problem...

 

POP would take 75 seconds at the last stop as opposed to 30-90 seconds at each stop.

 

"Please hold up your receipts in order to avoid a $100 fine."

 

You design the receipt with the route number in large black letters and the date/time in red for quick reading. I use a variant of POP on some of my runs now and it is faster than cash. Megabus and BoltBus use a variant of POP too. It cost everyone money to do, but it is faster.

[Cait Sith]

POP would take 75 seconds at the last stop as opposed to 30-90 seconds at each stop.

 

"Please hold up your receipts in order to avoid a $100 fine."

 

You design the receipt with the route number in large black letters and the date/time in red for quick reading. I use a variant of POP on some of my runs now and it is faster than cash. Megabus and BoltBus use a variant of POP too. It cost everyone money to do, but it is faster.

 

I suppose. I'm still against the thought of POP systems along express routes. Especially routes that have standees like the x1 and the x17J

[qjtransitmaster]

POP would take 75 seconds at the last stop as opposed to 30-90 seconds at each stop.

 

"Please hold up your receipts in order to avoid a $100 fine."

 

You design the receipt with the route number in large black letters and the date/time in red for quick reading. I use a variant of POP on some of my runs now and it is faster than cash. Megabus and BoltBus use a variant of POP too. It cost everyone money to do, but it is faster.

Thx for explaining it to everyone. COULDN'T SAY IT BETTER MYSELF

 

I suppose. I'm still against the thought of POP systems along express routes. Especially routes that have standees like the x1 and the x17J

 

I respect your opinion no one agrees on everything.

[aemoreira81]

http://www.mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/110926_1115_BUS.pdf

 

PDF page 79

 

-Reroute northbound Q40 to match southbound Q40 along 143 St Jan 2012

-Move Q65 terminal to 14 Rd/110 St, eliminate diversion to 14 Av Dec 2011

-M34 SBS November 2011. M16 renamed M34A, M34 is SBS only, SBS uses wrapped NG's, no fare machines at stops close to termini.

 

Too bad they didn't post the "Evaluation of the 2010 Service Reductions" that is to be distributed.

 

I disagree with the moving of the Q65's northern terminal, and this should generate a lot of protesting; the current terminal of the Q65 is at an office park that generates a lot of ridership. Why should those customers now have to walk through the neighborhood to reach their bus?

 

As I see it, if that was a problem, the northbound Q65 should be traveling along 14 Avenue from College Point Boulevard to 110 Street. The MTA clearly ignored another alternative---use 14 Avenue, which is a two-way street, instead of 14 Road.

[checkmatechamp13]

EXACTLY WHY POP would be a hit on express buses!!!!!!!! The lack of farebeating and POP means boarding them will be much faster!!!! Shaving dwell times. Also decreasing time at stops. The POP is so ppl don't waste time with coins or fumbling for metrocards. Boarding will be faster and the lack of farebeating eliminates the need for fare enforcement officers.

 

 

Well, you can't just have zero enforcement because at that point, even the express bus riders would realize that they aren't getting checked.

 

Then again, I've rode the HBLR a few times and never saw a fare inspector, so I guess people would still pay out of fear that there might be an inspection.

 

Just because someone agreed with you, doesnt make you right, sit down and stop acting like a child.

 

If thats your grand vision of the POP, you might as well keep metrocard payments on the express bus, thats what the FAREBOX is for....THAT is Proof-Of-Payment. If it was really necessary, we'd hear passengers bitch about slow boarding times all over the place and we havent heard them yet. Is it necessary? NO!

 

Exactly. POP rather than dipping a MetroCard saves time, but it's miniscule compared to the total time of the ride. Between the non-stop section, and the fact that the buses stop more like local trains rather than every few blocks like a local bus, it's not saving a ton of time.

 

now you have a point ok at least you come down to earth this POP idea of mine is not an emergency just a nice perk. So with buses coming on time and showing up I will have to agree with you here. I have cooled off for now. So I am not a frequent rider so I wasn't burned hard by buses not showing up. I did hear about QM15 doing that when I walked to the bus stop the bus pulled in as soon as I got there however the ppl waiting there told me they were there for an hour. What soultions would you propose to solve that issue???

 

The solution there is simply better dispatching. If a bus is running late, they can tell the operator to take a shortcut (approved of course) or put a deadhead bus in service or something.

 

I mean, what could be done if the bus is late is to have it short-turn, and tell drivers on the parallel local route to bring passengers to the first stop. For example, I remember overhearing a dispatcher telling all S48/S98 drivers to tell all express bus riders that the last X12 from Richmond Terrace was cancelled, and he would give them a ride to Forest Avenue (all of the runs after about 08:00 start at Forest Avenue/South Avenue, instead of South Avenue/Richmond Terrace).

 

So in the QM15's case, the bus could've short-turned at Liberty Avenue, and riders can take the Q21/Q41 (or Q53 if they were near a stop) to reach the QM15.

 

This would only be done if a bus was running late. If it was MIA, something else would have to be done.

 

The ticket would be designed differently and color coded so it's completely different from local SBS thus eliminating that problem

 

The problem is that you have to show the driver that it is valid for the time (that it hasn't expired or anything). Once the driver has to look ta it that closely, you might as well dip in a MetroCard and call it a day.

 

interesting. This point is valid and non smacking. What about expanded contactless payments for express rtes and then increase the cash fare but drop the contactless fare. The machines I wonder if they can be offset by favoring metrocards. Where cash fare is increased BUT metrocard fare isn't

 

That would work. That's why I think that in the last fare hike, the bonus should've been kept, and the cash fare should've gone up. The problem that many people argued is that cash fares are often paid by the people who can't afford to buy a MetroCard.

 

POP would take 75 seconds at the last stop as opposed to 30-90 seconds at each stop.

 

"Please hold up your receipts in order to avoid a $100 fine."

 

You design the receipt with the route number in large black letters and the date/time in red for quick reading. I use a variant of POP on some of my runs now and it is faster than cash. Megabus and BoltBus use a variant of POP too. It cost everyone money to do, but it is faster.

 

But at the last stop, the bus is mostly empty. Most of any farebeaters would be off by then. Plus, most farebeaters would probably be leary of staying on until the last stop anyway.

[qjtransitmaster]

Well, you can't just have zero enforcement because at that point, even the express bus riders would realize that they aren't getting checked.

 

Then again, I've rode the HBLR a few times and never saw a fare inspector, so I guess people would still pay out of fear that there might be an inspection.

 

 

 

Exactly. POP rather than dipping a MetroCard saves time, but it's miniscule compared to the total time of the ride. Between the non-stop section, and the fact that the buses stop more like local trains rather than every few blocks like a local bus, it's not saving a ton of time.

 

 

 

The solution there is simply better dispatching. If a bus is running late, they can tell the operator to take a shortcut (approved of course) or put a deadhead bus in service or something.

 

I mean, what could be done if the bus is late is to have it short-turn, and tell drivers on the parallel local route to bring passengers to the first stop. For example, I remember overhearing a dispatcher telling all S48/S98 drivers to tell all express bus riders that the last X12 from Richmond Terrace was cancelled, and he would give them a ride to Forest Avenue (all of the runs after about 08:00 start at Forest Avenue/South Avenue, instead of South Avenue/Richmond Terrace).

 

So in the QM15's case, the bus could've short-turned at Liberty Avenue, and riders can take the Q21/Q41 (or Q53 if they were near a stop) to reach the QM15.

 

This would only be done if a bus was running late. If it was MIA, something else would have to be done.

 

 

 

The problem is that you have to show the driver that it is valid for the time (that it hasn't expired or anything). Once the driver has to look ta it that closely, you might as well dip in a MetroCard and call it a day.

 

 

 

That would work. That's why I think that in the last fare hike, the bonus should've been kept, and the cash fare should've gone up. The problem that many people argued is that cash fares are often paid by the people who can't afford to buy a MetroCard.

 

 

 

But at the last stop, the bus is mostly empty. Most of any farebeaters would be off by then. Plus, most farebeaters would probably be leary of staying on until the last stop anyway.

 

BRILLIANT POST try submitting this to the MTA plz!!!!!!! Ohh and color coded in a bright color so it's DEAD OBVIOUS IT'S for the express bus and not normal SBS. Nice solutions to the main problem very nice. I will now finish my LI rte change ideas now.

[FamousNYLover]

QJ, consider this before you open your mouth again and force me to go dig out the golf clubs...

 

under your plan, the express bus passengers would buy thier tickets on the curb and show them to the driver s the board.

 

explain to me how showing the ticket to the driver will help these

 

Boarding speed:

 

If they have to show the ticket to driver he or she will need to look at the ticket to make sure it is a legit ticket. unless they are printied on completly diffrent paper and in completly diffrent ways from the SBS tickets, the driver will need to be sure that they're not trying to sneak on with a $2.25 SBS ticket instead of the $5.50 express price.

 

This will probibly result in loading speeds no diffrent than the current system.

 

Fare evasion.

 

Like I said, diffrent tickets would be needed to speed loading under your plan, as just showing the driver the paper ticket is not enough, they need to know that ticket if for that price. then they need to look at it closely.

 

Now, I perseoanly have been checked for POP three times in my life on a honor system style operation. Twice on NJT, once on Sound Transit in Seattle. Once at hoboken; I had a college free pass, and made right for the hblr train, the cops were standing there, saw me, called me over, and I nearly missed my train from them looking at the pass in amazement. Once on the river line (same week, same pass, cops get on the train and start asking my honestly interested questions, though this time about my cameria). And then once on Seattle Central Link, didn't have a ticket had their smart card ORCA, you just show the card. inspectors got on the train, doors closed, trains started moving and they anncounced thier presence.

 

My point is in these three instances, the inspectors were ether waiting at the station, or they checked you while between stops. They didn't get in the way of the process of boarding.

 

 

YOUR IDEA GETS IN THE WAY OF THE PROCESS OF BOARDING THE BUS, WHICH MAKES CURB SIDE PAYMENT POINTLESS, SINCE THAT'S WHY YOU BUY BEFOREHAND, TO GET ON FASTER!

 

I agree.

MCI Coach Buses from and old Bee-Line MCI Coach only has front door for entrance and exit only.

There are very busy express bus routes.

Also if hire another SBS inspectors for express bus, express bus could be delay with people looking for their ticket.

 

I remember when I was on Bx12 SBS.

On Bx12SBS when fare inspector showed up, it took about five-ten minutes b/c Bx12 SBS is heavey loaded and I saw four-five people kicked out from SBS looking from Fordham Rd Station.

 

Yesterday, I was on M15 SBS Northbound and at 34th St, one lady was fumbling for her ticket and telling inspectors lie, "I have ticket." She show her ticket, but it was old one. She properly might have picked up from bus floor." She than got kick out because she could proceed and it got delay about five minutes.

 

I also have been on (NJT) RiverLine and Hudson-Bergen Lightrail before fare hike and when Law Enforcement came onto lightrail to check to see if their ticket was validated, some riders (fare beaters) moan. Which this cause little delays if they had no valid ticket.

 

If you put SBS on express bus stops, local passengers will get confuse also.

 

If there was SBS on express bus and had fare inspectors, inspectors properly have to board bus at drop-off only, which could delays everyone`s trip.

[qjtransitmaster]

I agree.

MCI Coach Buses from and old Bee-Line MCI Coach only has front door for entrance and exit only.

There are very busy express bus routes.

Also if hire another SBS inspectors for express bus, express bus could be delay with people looking for their ticket.

 

I remember when I was on Bx12 SBS.

On Bx12SBS when fare inspector showed up, it took about five-ten minutes b/c Bx12 SBS is heavey loaded and I saw four-five people kicked out from SBS looking from Fordham Rd Station.

 

Yesterday, I was on M15 SBS Northbound and at 34th St, one lady was fumbling for her ticket and telling inspectors lie, "I have ticket." She show her ticket, but it was old one. She properly might have picked up from bus floor." She than got kick out because she could proceed and it got delay about five minutes.

 

I also have been on (NJT) RiverLine and Hudson-Bergen Lightrail before fare hike and when Law Enforcement came onto lightrail to check to see if their ticket was validated, some riders (fare beaters) moan. Which this cause little delays if they had no valid ticket.

 

If you put SBS on express bus stops, local passengers will get confuse also.

 

If there was SBS on express bus and had fare inspectors, inspectors properly have to board bus at drop-off only, which could delays everyone`s trip.

 

WERE YOU LISTENING express buses won't have inspectors the driver will simply collect tickets as you board done. It would be impossible to board without the ticket plus the machines would be designed uniquely to distinguish between local and express. Will you ppl stop trying to invalidate everything I say

[FamousNYLover]

I am listening and I read.

That will slow down boarding even with or without inspectors.

Driver will get exauted especially on busy line.

Express buses make lots of pickups and stops are spaced like limited stops.

Driver has to check receipt many times at each pick up stops.

Even color code will not work.

Express bus riders will be furious and take to court if that happened.

For example, if MTA install Farecollector for Atlantic Express`s X23 and X24 bus stops, which are very busy routes operated under NYCDOT.

For example, people getting on X23 or X24 must paid at machine, get a receipt.

Once they get receipt, they must wait in line and driver will have to check all receipts.

Also receipt are easy to counterfeit if there was customer who is talented for making fake things or stuffs.

X23 and X24 has lots of riders at each pickup and they have to wait in line until bus driver check receipt and usher them on.

This could delay and frustrated passengers who are waiting to get on express bus.

 

Imigine if you`re going to same place served by X23 and X24 bus, which is Arthur Kill Rd @ Route 440.

If you bought X23 ticket with 7-Day Express Bus Plus card, and if X24 bus came first. You might want to take X24 first, however you can`t because X23 ticket is accepted for X23 bus and you cannot use X24 machine because It`s same route in Manhattan and you`re have to wait 18 minutes.

 

Most M15 local and SBS riders are already frustrated with this method.

 

You seem to be forgetting Cait Sith is Moderator. Moderator and Admistrator does good job keeping this topic good condition.

[qjtransitmaster]

I am listening and I read.

That will slow down boarding even with or without inspectors.

Driver will get exauted especially on busy line.

Express buses make lots of pickups and stops are spaced like limited stops.

Driver has to check receipt many times at each pick up stops.

Even color code will not work.

Express bus riders will be furious and take to court if that happened.

For example, if MTA install Farecollector for Atlantic Express`s X23 and X24 bus stops, which are very busy routes operated under NYCDOT.

For example, people getting on X23 or X24 must paid at machine, get a receipt.

Once they get receipt, they must wait in line and driver will have to check all receipts.

Also receipt are easy to counterfeit if there was customer who is talented for making fake things or stuffs.

X23 and X24 has lots of riders at each pickup and they have to wait in line until bus driver check receipt and usher them on.

This could delay and frustrated passengers who are waiting to get on express bus.

 

Imigine if you`re going to same place served by X23 and X24 bus, which is Arthur Kill Rd @ Route 440.

If you bought X23 ticket with 7-Day Express Bus Plus card, and if X24 bus came first. You might want to take X24 first, however you can`t because X23 ticket is accepted for X23 bus and you cannot use X24 machine because It`s same route in Manhattan and you`re have to wait 18 minutes.

 

Most M15 local and SBS riders are already frustrated with this method.

 

You seem to be forgetting Cait Sith is Moderator. Moderator and Admistrator does good job keeping this topic good condition.

 

Well the driver won't just check reciepts he will collect them DONE. The machines will let YOU CHOOSE THE RTE YOU WANT!!!!!!!!!!

[Cait Sith]

Well the driver won't just check reciepts he will collect them DONE.

 

Just stop.

 

Plus, POP machines work for one route only....which is part of the reason why the M16 is being relabeled to the M34A....

[qjtransitmaster]

Just stop.

 

I already made the point some lines it will work OTHERS not so much. plz GET OVER IT can't POP machines be programmed differently???

[via White Plains Road]

I am listening and I read.

That will slow down boarding even with or without inspectors.

Driver will get exauted especially on busy line.

Express buses make lots of pickups and stops are spaced like limited stops.

Driver has to check receipt many times at each pick up stops.

Even color code will not work.

Express bus riders will be furious and take to court if that happened.

For example, if MTA install Farecollector for Atlantic Express`s X23 and X24 bus stops, which are very busy routes operated under NYCDOT.

For example, people getting on X23 or X24 must paid at machine, get a receipt.

Once they get receipt, they must wait in line and driver will have to check all receipts.

Also receipt are easy to counterfeit if there was customer who is talented for making fake things or stuffs.

X23 and X24 has lots of riders at each pickup and they have to wait in line until bus driver check receipt and usher them on.

This could delay and frustrated passengers who are waiting to get on express bus.

 

Imigine if you`re going to same place served by X23 and X24 bus, which is Arthur Kill Rd @ Route 440.

If you bought X23 ticket with 7-Day Express Bus Plus card, and if X24 bus came first. You might want to take X24 first, however you can`t because X23 ticket is accepted for X23 bus and you cannot use X24 machine because It`s same route in Manhattan and you`re have to wait 18 minutes.

 

Most M15 local and SBS riders are already frustrated with this method.

 

You seem to be forgetting Cait Sith is Moderator. Moderator and Admistrator does good job keeping this topic good condition.

 

*Hi-5* Yuki....excellent post!

[Cait Sith]

I already made the point some lines it will work OTHERS not so much. plz GET OVER IT can't POP machines be programmed differently???

 

No....

 

And for the bold, that makes your plan extremely pointless.....if its not going to work for the entire system, dont even bother bringing it out at all....pointless and stupid.....another case of lacking some serious common sense....

[qjtransitmaster]

No....

 

And for the bold, that makes your plan extremely pointless.....

 

forget it It's just thought why can POP machines not be customized???

[FamousNYLover]

Speaking of SBS Ticket, little off-topic.

 

Tickets, moneys, receipt, photo IDS can easily counterfeit.

QJ, pop quiz: Can you guess which one is counterfeit and real?

[FamousNYLover]

If driver doesn`t check, one of receipt could be counterfeit like receipts in this site and look how counterfeit artists could make fake receipt easily.

http://salesreceiptstore.com/photos_images_fake_receipts.html

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Cait Sith]

forget it It's just thought why can POP machines mnot be customized???

 

You're telling me to forget it and you kept going on and on and on with this dumb idea? You need to take a look in the mirror....