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Harry

Construction for 2nd Ave. subway digs grave for local busineses

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When Phase 1 is finished, Second Avenue will go back to normal and everyone will wonder how they lived without the SAS. Just watch. Now imagine you were living when streets were being torn up left and right to build the majority of the subway back in the early 20th century. I'm sure people were pissed then too, but they understood that in the long term infrastructure growth was necessary.

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If you think the construction of the Second Avenue Subway sucked then watch this video. It's not our subway, nor is it in NYC, but it would tell you how subways were built back in 1910-1920. Skip up to 1:00 of course.

 

 

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When Phase 1 is finished, Second Avenue will go back to normal and everyone will wonder how they lived without the SAS. Just watch. Now imagine you were living when streets were being torn up left and right to build the majority of the subway back in the early 20th century. I'm sure people were pissed then too, but they understood that in the long term infrastructure growth was necessary.

 

Absolutely!!

 

We are much more of a "me-first" society today as opposed to 100-110 years ago when the original subways were being built. Transport the people of today back 100 years, and they would probably be moaning all over the place with no understanding of the greater good.

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If you think the construction of the Second Avenue Subway sucked then watch this video. It's not our subway, nor is it in NYC, but it would tell you how subways were built back in 1910-1920. Skip up to 1:00 of course.

 

 

 

I never knew Cincinatti even tried to build a subway.

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Look, this is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" project. The neighborhood is gonna suffer for a while, no doubt at all. The (MTA) should be doing something to help them out a bit but they can't do everything for them. I hope they make it, but if they don't, then that will be a shame and there will be nothing we can do about it. The whole thing is, the east side of Manhattan DESPERATELY needs additional subway service. I have been working on the (4) for the last couple of days and I tell you, that line is bursting at the seams. Any kind of help the Lex line can get will be GREATLY appreciated and the work on 2nd Ave needs to be done. Hell it should have been done 50 years ago but that's another topic. As much as I hate that the neighborhood is going through turmoil, at least it's temporary and this subway line is going to help LOTS of people. I can't wait for it to open, both as a passenger and an employee!

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What future generation if the whole area goes bankrupt?

 

Its the UES, not Greece. It aint that serious.

 

As Princelex said, there's going to be suffering now. Sad fact of subway construction. But the economic benefits of transit outweighs the risk. Look at HBLR for a minute. Prior to the Light Rail not alot of people would have envisioned that Jersey City would be where it is prior to the service being built.

 

Having said that, the MTA could have done a much better job with community outreach, and I'm sure it can be argued that construction could have been expedited had the MTA kept a better house, but thats another conversation.

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Its the UES, not Greece. It aint that serious.

 

As Princelex said, there's going to be suffering now. Sad fact of subway construction. But the economic benefits of transit outweighs the risk. Look at HBLR for a minute. Prior to the Light Rail not alot of people would have envisioned that Jersey City would be where it is prior to the service being built.

 

Having said that, the MTA could have done a much better job with community outreach, and I'm sure it can be argued that construction could have been expedited had the MTA kept a better house, but thats another conversation.

 

It's pretty serious if a well known spot that's been there for years with several loyal customers suddenly shuts down and doesn't come back up. It's not only with subways, it goes for any type of transportation construction in NYC. They barely ever keep up with schedule and that's when things start to shut down.

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I haven't seen long term progress occur without some negativity. It's typically there, whether it be the big dig in Boston or SAS here.

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Once the subway is built, new businesses will be lining up to buy real estate in the area and reaping the benefits of more customers once the line is in service.

 

That's just the way things are.

 

Some businesses may not make it that far...that's how it goes.

 

Just count on 3 things...rent going up, wages staying flat or declining, and what I said above...but that doesn't have as much effect on the general business cycle as you might think. The UES is not going to turn into a wasteland because of a little construction.

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Just count on 3 things...rent going up, wages staying flat or declining, and what I said above...but that doesn't have as much effect on the general business cycle as you might think. The UES is not going to turn into a wasteland because of a little construction.

 

Exactly!!

 

As said, those businesses that survive this will reap HUGE benefits down the road, and those that don't who may have had "loyal" customers before probably were not really "loyal" customers, but those who are too fussy to deal with any inconvenience. Those businesses who are in that spot probably just had people going there for convenience, and really weren't as "loyal" as one thought.

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Any effort to improve transit along Second Avenue is going to be met with howls of complaints, and mobs of concerned citizens. Why? It is a change from the familiar - for just one reason.

 

1) SBS-15 Bus route along Second and First Avenues. Gee - its not as fast as a subway, it gets caught in traffic. Dedicate car lanes for buses - there's the automobile, taxi and delivery drivers lobbies to contend with.

 

2) Light Rail Transit along Second Avenue - well one has to tie up traffic to lay down the tracks and power lines, build stations along the route, and dedicate traffic lanes for the tracks, etc. People are already complaining about bike lanes taking up street space - now there are trains running down the streets!

 

3) Elevated Rail Transit - I'd consider it just to give the NIMBY-types a complete heart attack. Those folks would go crazy at the mere mention of an elevated rail line - it does not matter the architectural or engineering details of the transit line.

 

4) Subway - some how it was fine in the 1970's to build the Second Avenue subway tunnels that still won't get used with this Stubway. Some how it was just fine in the 1970's to turn East Harlem upside down with subway construction, but now we're talking about the "Upper East Side". The concerns of race and class a bit too much here - or do I need to say more?

 

--------

 

The point is that there are few alternatives to the PAIN and PROBLEMS due to construction, unless one is talking about not building the 'thing' which would not be a help to anyone. There is something called the "greater good" and the "public interest" - even in these days of "me - me - me".

 

It's not like the Second Avenue Subway has never ever been discussed before.

 

Mike

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Seems like nothing is done right anymore.

 

As far as robert moses, he built highways, and destroyed public transportation. The only real time he had things demolished for no real reason was to create certain parks, including "ribbon" parks.

 

- A

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You know I think I would be very happy to see a mass transit Robert Moses. What would Robert Moses have been like if he supported mass transit? You can imagine how huge our subway system would have been, and it still can happen, because babies are born everyday so there is a chance that one of them, or maybe even us might be a mass transit "Robert Moses".

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Absolutely:

 

Even when adjusted for inflation, land values were not even close to what they are now back in the day when the original subways were built.

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