Worst express

[TwoTimer]

I guess people are listing every express run that has any timer in it (whether its necessary or not). If you want to be thrown about a train in some cases, go to nearby Great Adventure, you'll get all the thrills you want there, even on rail-like structures. There are many unnecessary timers throughout the system, some put in after key incidents, but if they all cleared through as posted, the system would be fast enough that even railfans wouldn't think entire stretches are slow.

 

The IND below 59th was designed to minimize transfers, that's why there are so few skipped stops on both 6av and 8av.

 

For instance much has been talked about the CPW. Going north, if all those timers cleared the way they were supposed to, a train (with power currently constituted) should clear them on the post all the way to the beginning of the dip at 103 (that's when the train finally gets to 40mph). Coast down the dip, holding a slight brake to keep it at 40, wrap it again at the bottom. It stays wrapped until the curve north of 116, bring it down to 25, and hold it there all the way into 125, nice and smooth into the station. But if you go out there and do what I just said, you'll hit the timer at the top of the dip. Yes I almost hit a year it had to basically stop the train for it to clear.

 

Going south, its on the post to 81st. First one is GT45, clears on the post, but the train can only get up to 37-38 anyway, and it clears in the window, not well in front of u since your 5-10 below the timed limit anyway. If trains still could get to 45 without the help of a downgrade, you'd hit that first one too, perhaps. After 81st, if they were timed correctly, you can hold 35 all the way to those trio of home signals outside 59 (25 for those), but nope can only do 25-27, and then down to 20-22 for those last sets.

 

However, CPW should not be on time at all southbound unless the switch to the spur (between 81-72) is set, and only some high speed ones at the end to protect from an overrun of 59 (lets say GT35), which is downgrade.

 

Going north, it shouldn't be on time at all (again except for a reversed switch into the spur) until 116 where a GT35 would meet you followed by a GT25.

[CenSin]

Express Queensboro to Woodside

I absolutely do not understand why this is there… I could understand if it was about the slowdown at 111 Street, but Queensboro Plaza to Woodside is quite fast.

[TwoTimer]

Oh, and for those who don't know exactly what 35 is from looking out the window, thing CPW around 96th-103rd going north. Everyone is around 35 at that point.

 

I absolutely do not understand why this is there… I could understand if it was about the slowdown at 111 Street, but Queensboro Plaza to Woodside is quite fast.

 

I guess its a complaint about the timers after the curve off of Queens Blvd going downhill through curves into Woodside. I'm surprised no one has really brought up the lil bit of a skip either.

 

Another note about timers, the best ones IMO are between Bway Jnct and Euclid s/b on the . First two clear above posted (can wrap through those), the rest exactly at 30. Go 30, and they clear in your window. Not even the 60th tube can say that.

[Jamaica Line]

Oh, and for those who don't know exactly what 35 is from looking out the window, thing CPW around 96th-103rd going north. Everyone is around 35 at that point.

 

 

 

I guess its a complaint about the timers after the curve off of Queens Blvd going downhill through curves into Woodside. I'm surprised no one has really brought up the lil bit of a skip either.

 

Another note about timers, the best ones IMO are between Bway Jnct and Euclid s/b on the . First two clear above posted (can wrap through those), the rest exactly at 30. Go 30, and they clear in your window. Not even the 60th tube can say that.

 

A lil off topic but that timer north of Cypress Hills takes a while to clear. As for the , would it be safe to clear the timer in the middle of the station, immediately bring the train to a halt, then give the train full power just as the timer north of the station clears? Wouldn't save a few seconds instead of crawling to that timer? It definitely doesn't clear at 10.

[TwoTimer]

A lil off topic but that timer north of Cypress Hills takes a while to clear. As for the , would it be safe to clear the timer in the middle of the station, immediately bring the train to a halt, then give the train full power just as the timer north of the station clears? Wouldn't save a few seconds instead of crawling to that timer? It definitely doesn't clear at 10.

 

Trains bypassing a station must leave at no more than 15mph.

[Jamaica Line]

Trains bypassing a station must leave at no more than 15mph.

 

Totally forgot about that rule. Why is that? I remember someone on here saying it has something to do with the outdated signals?

[TwoTimer]

There are places in the system where one can't see the leaving signal when entering (Broadway Lafayette has given me a scare or two coming off the bridge bringing back a baseball special from Brooklyn, and in fact a special has hit that home signal at the end of the station too a couple months ago)...Metro North and LIRR whose stations are virtually straight and great LoS can just wrap it on through. Even if leaving is yellow, going only 15 or so one can easily stop at the upcoming red.

[Jamaica Line]

There are places in the system where one can't see the leaving signal when entering (Broadway Lafayette has given me a scare or two coming off the bridge bringing back a baseball special from Brooklyn, and in fact a special has hit that home signal at the end of the station too a couple months ago)...Metro North and LIRR whose stations are virtually straight and great LoS can just wrap it on through. Even if leaving is yellow, going only 15 or so one can easily stop at the upcoming red.

 

Oh, ok. Thanks.

[SubwayGuy]

I can agree with the others, but why the Southbound between Atlantic and Franklin? The northbound stretch is loaded with timers, but going Southbound there are no timers at all! When there are no bottlenecks at Rogers Junction, trains almost fly down that stretch! Downtown and come into Franklin crazy fast.

 

I'm gonna have to pick the .

 

The northbound b/w Atlantic and Franklin is loaded with timers yes.

 

Usually there are bottlenecks at Rogers Junction S/B, so trains proceed slower S/B through that area.

 

Also should add and the Utica (5)'s b/w Franklin and Utica. S/B, switching/discharging trains almost always backs up trains through Nostrand/Kingston, especially during the rush. Often times the beats the there. N/B trains have to slow for the switches at the lower level of Rogers Junction.

[SubwayGuy]

To clarify...timers do NOT have to be the only reason an express is "slow" - train traffic can be to blame also.

 

I did not count only track allowable speeds when putting my list together (see explanation above, for example).

[SubwayGuy]

b/w Borough Hall and Nevins Street (Southbound)

Reason b/c of the timers

 

The curve entering Nevins S/B necessitates the timer there. If the train operator controls his speed on the approach, it can be cleared at slow speed without having to bring the train to a near stop as happens when the train runs up on the signal, then gradually accelerate a little more into the station and make a nice stop.

[TwoTimer]

Almost all stretches of express track can have train traffic on it pending on when one rides thru there, thats why I dont consider track frequency into the equation (its more of an asterisk type of deal in most areas)

[dman1455]

Almost all stretches of express track can have train traffic on it pending on when one rides thru there, thats why I dont consider track frequency into the equation (its more of an asterisk type of deal in most areas)

 

Well I feel as the best time for a express ride is at late nights. Hardly any traffic and T/O's know what there doing.

[TwoTimer]

Well I feel as the best time for a express ride is at late nights. Hardly any traffic and T/O's know what there doing.

 

If u dont run into flagging, and limited options as well

[dman1455]

If u dont run into flagging, and limited options as well

 

Yeah, Late Nights rock though in terms of riding. In terms of waiting for the train it's a different story

[Via Garibaldi 8]

To clarify...timers do NOT have to be the only reason an express is "slow" - train traffic can be to blame also.

 

I did not count only track allowable speeds when putting my list together (see explanation above, for example).

 

Speaking of traffic, what gets me is you'll wait for a while for a or train at Wall St and then from Brooklyn Bridge to 14th st and 14th st to 42nd street, they play that message sometimes talking about "Ladies and Gentlemen, we have train traffic ahead of us. Please be patient" and I think to myself what f*cking train traffic? :mad: I was waiting for a train for at least 10 minutes. Is that really true or is that just BS?

[SoSpectacular]

Speaking of traffic, what gets me is you'll wait for a while for a or train at Wall St and then from Brooklyn Bridge to 14th st and 14th st to 42nd street, they play that message sometimes talking about "Ladies and Gentlemen, we have train traffic ahead of us. Please be patient" and I think to myself what f*cking train traffic? :mad: I was waiting for a train for at least 10 minutes. Is that really true or is that just BS?

 

People LOVE holding up the trains, especially on the Lexington Line so no surprise there buddy

[YankeesPwnMets]

Speaking of traffic, what gets me is you'll wait for a while for a or train at Wall St and then from Brooklyn Bridge to 14th st and 14th st to 42nd street, they play that message sometimes talking about "Ladies and Gentlemen, we have train traffic ahead of us. Please be patient" and I think to myself what f*cking train traffic? :mad: I was waiting for a train for at least 10 minutes. Is that really true or is that just BS?

 

I ride Lexington every day and trust me, the idiot passengers there don't have any courtesy... they always try to stick and arm in there between the doors so they can get in the train... I hate to say this, but I hope one of them breaks their arm in the act one day... that should teach them a damn lesson

[2 Train Master]

The 168th to 125th for obvious reasons but it's still damn slow bothways.14th to 34th also in Manhattan and W4th to Canal is slow.The uptown part from Canal to W4th isn't bad.Brooklyn is the shining part except coming in ENY S/B.

The Concourse Express sucks really slow.

 

Thats all I got really.

Medicore expresses(pending if T/O's keep the train on the post or coast certain sections):

Hoyt to Nostrand if they brake they'll come in about 35-40 if they don't they'll fly in at least 42,CPW N/B really good but that dip part you can have a T/O coming up about mid 30's or they'll run the timers still bypassing 116th in the low to mid 40's.

 

The IRT is fine to me.

[mark1447]

I absolutely do not understand why this is there… I could understand if it was about the slowdown at 111 Street, but Queensboro Plaza to Woodside is quite fast.

 

Well at times its been slowed. Maybe speed up by 40th street, but onwards timers make an appearance. Especially right after 52nd st.

[CenSin]

Also should add and the Utica (5)'s b/w Franklin and Utica. S/B, switching/discharging trains almost always backs up trains through Nostrand/Kingston, especially during the rush. Often times the beats the there. N/B trains have to slow for the switches at the lower level of Rogers Junction.

Utica Avenue was never meant to be a terminal—hence the inefficiencies there.

[SubwayGuy]

Speaking of traffic, what gets me is you'll wait for a while for a or train at Wall St and then from Brooklyn Bridge to 14th st and 14th st to 42nd street, they play that message sometimes talking about "Ladies and Gentlemen, we have train traffic ahead of us. Please be patient" and I think to myself what f*cking train traffic? :mad: I was waiting for a train for at least 10 minutes. Is that really true or is that just BS?

 

Depends on when you're hearing that. Sometimes there really is train traffic ahead. Trains can bunch up in a hurry during the rush. You may have 3 trains back to back to back, then a train that left its terminal late or was delayed at a switch point (like Rogers Junction) which is moving all the way because it's, say, 6 minutes behind it's leader...but has a good crew that moves the train. Then, when it gets to Manhattan, the train is still flying, but the trains that are back to back begin to slow down some. It's very easy for the following train to catch up, especially at 14th and 42nd Streets. Many times during the rush the east side (particularly the express) just winds up a giant conga line. If the 6 gets backed up, trains can get skipped...but its quite rare for 4's and 5's to get skips in Manhattan unless there's been some sort of incident.

 

You may also hear that message be played (particularly entering Grand Central) when the train stops to allow a station timer to clear. In this case, the leading train may have even already begun to leave the station...but if the T/O approaches the grade timer OR the station timer (if there's a train ahead) too fast, it won't clear. Delay announcements by rulebook are to be made immediately, so many times when there's a red signal, some crews will just automatically play the Train Traffic Delay announcement.

 

14th northbound is one of the more difficult stations for trains to be closed down in due to the sheer number of staircases on the north end of the northbound platform. That can sometimes cause trains to get caught up to by their followers.

 

During off peak hours if this sort of thing is going on, remember work trains can also be train traffic.

[R32 3348]

I absolutely do not understand why this is there… I could understand if it was about the slowdown at 111 Street, but Queensboro Plaza to Woodside is quite fast.

The local from Queensboro to 33rd is pretty fast, but the express slows down going around the curve (they put speed limits and timers all over the a couple of years ago...one example being between Woodside and 69th St. N/B local). The T/O has to maintain 25 or 20 (depending on the track IINM) going around the curve at 33rd until the end of the station, and then it's all uphill to the end of 40th (there's also LOTS of timers between 52nd and 61st). The only real fast section of that express run is between 40th and 52nd. I never really thought twice about it though. After dealing with the every day I have other things to complain about...

 

The has the potential to be the best express run, but in reality with so many timers it's actually the worst express run. The stops in Midtown aren't even a problem it's the fact that you save 3 minutes over a train going from 168th St. to 34th St. S/B.

 

Next on my list is the between Jackson Heights and Queens Plaza going S/B, but the only real annoying part is between 36th St. and Queens Plaza. I don't understand how the has barely any timers between the two stations but the has a shit ton of them (especially entering Queens Plaza). It once took 84 seconds to get from one end of Queens Plaza to the other (S/B). That's like 8 feet per second WTF???

 

The express between Brooklyn Bridge and Union Sq. (I would assume further up the line too) is just painful going N/B, judging from the one time I took it and the literally beat us to Union Sq. Seeing as it's the Lex I wouldn't be surprised if that happens everyday.

[CenSin]

The has the potential to be the best express run, but in reality with so many timers it's actually the worst express run. The stops in Midtown aren't even a problem it's the fact that you save 3 minutes over a train going from 168th St. to 34th St. S/B.

All of the IND-built lines have the potential to be much faster. They were built that way. Average human limitations (and thus, timers) limit things too much. CBTC might make the IND lines what they were meant to be.

 

Next on my list is the between Jackson Heights and Queens Plaza going S/B, but the only real annoying part is between 36th St. and Queens Plaza. I don't understand how the has barely any timers between the two stations but the has a shit ton of them (especially entering Queens Plaza). It once took 84 seconds to get from one end of Queens Plaza to the other (S/B). That's like 8 feet per second WTF???

I never understood that either. From 36 Street to Queens Plaza, sometimes the or beats the to Queens Plaza, and the goes straight through the switches too while the locals travel along a diverging track facing-point. Of course, I don't use it often (I use the to Queensbridge–21 Street to get to Coney Island) and even then, only in the late evening.

 

The way I understand some of these restrictions on speed is limited, but I'd deduce the following from what I've observed:

• Trains going through tight curves slow down for obvious reasons, but only approaching. Once the first car gets on the straight segment of track, the conductor is usually free to speed up. I don't know if CBTC would make a difference in approaching curves.

• Trains traversing consecutive curves (those sections shaped like an S or several S) slowdown a lot. Not much can be done here to speed things up short of taking the whole thing apart and building another passage.

• Trains slow down when traversing switches in a facing-point motion on a diverging path or trailing-point movement merging into straight track.

• Trains slow down in the presence of any switch that is in regular service. They also slow down when approaching a station that has such a switch just beyond it. 36 Street on the 4 Avenue line () and Queens Plaza on the Queens Boulevard line () are such examples. Sometimes there's an anomaly like Church Avenue on the Nostrand Avenue line ().

• In extreme cases, trains will halt before entering a station because another train in the station on another track is merging (or about to merge) into the same track. I noticed this when there was a G.O. where the ran express to 59 Street (4 Avenue) and the ran local. I took a gamble and waited for the . The waited just north of the 59 Street station while the left the station and switched to the express track.

  The "rule" doesn't preclude trains from being on both tracks at the station. If the were already in the station, it would stay there while the proceeded. (The opposite actually happened in my experience; the was local and went ahead while the waited.)

 

[VWM]

the Lex

took it on a weekend between 59 and 86 and it CRAWLED.