Jump to content

More Country Club Complaints about the Bx24


GreatOne2k

Recommended Posts

Except Riverdale actually uses their services more.

 

As far as the taxes go, like I said, taxes shouldn't be a determining factor in how much bus service an area gets. If an area uses the service it keeps it. If not, it doesn't. You agreed with B35 on this, and yet when I bring up something like the BM4 or another low-ridership service you keep on saying "Oh, they're cutting from the affluent people".

 

Just come out and say it already... You think people should pay taxes and get nothing in return. You would be perfectly fine cutting service to a community and leaving it with nothing and at the same time, the areas that you would cut service from, you would have no problem with them paying more taxes for nothing in return, so what in the hell are they paying taxes for? Oh I know they're just paying taxes to support other communities and prop up their bus service. :mad:

 

You know it's easy for you to say cut this and cut that when you have bus service and plenty of it. Here in NYC more than half of the population does NOT own a car, so how in the hell do you expect people to get around? Oh, let's cut their service because they don't use it as much and they can walk to wherever they have to go because they don't need their service right?? That's my point. Shortline was perfectly fine cutting the B31s' hours back because he felt that people could afford taxis in Gerritsen Beach. What someone earns should NOT determine whether or not they get service. Hell the Upper East Side is pretty affluent, so why don't we cut all of their bus service since they can afford to take taxis. That's ridiculous! :mad: :tdown: And isn't it "ironic" that the neighborhoods where folks are always pushing for service to be cut or saying folks can just "get a car" are either middle class communities or more affluent areas. :mad: Meanwhile they still have their bus service in the neighborhoods. Friggin' hypocrites. :mad:

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Replies 114
  • Created
  • Last Reply

@checkmatechamp - under my plan, the Bx4A would be junked in favor of restoring the former Bx14. In Country Club, however, I would want the bus to lay over on Middletown Road (likely at Middletown and Stadium) instead of in front of residences...going up Stadium Avenue and coming back down Ohm Avenue.

 

As for why it exists---the Bruckner has isolated Country Club (and parts of Throgs Neck) from the rest of the Bronx.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't ask you how many stops there are... I asked you how many stops you thought there were along that portion (had I not asked that, I doubt you would ran to google to count the # of stops).... Anyway, you bring up being spiteful & what not... You made that whole point to try to convey to me that there would be this great loss of service if stops were to be removed from that area....

 

and newsflash, CC riders didn't think twice about the Bx5 when it panned along bruckner... riders were not leaving the confines of CC to catch a bus... which made that whole spite thing even more dumb....

 

 

Well, it was hard to figure out. I thought that there would be some stops on the westbound side, because that's all residential, but there wouldn't be any stops on the eastbound side, because there's Pelham Bay Park, so I decided to check it out.

 

And that's news to me about the Bx5 (seriously, with the more frequent service and more destinations, I thought they would've taken it).

 

And the original reason I brought up spite was because I thought you were saying to have the Bx5 bypass the neighborhood (I forgot about the Q50) and cut the Bx24.

 

When you mentioned that you'd keep the Bx24 (and CC riders wouldn't be as isolated as I originally thought, because of the Q50), my response was that there's no point having it bypass the ADA-accessable station (Pelham Bay Park) because they's what the residents were screaming for (in addition to Westchester Square service).

 

The way you would've routed it would've bypassed Pelham Bay Park, and instead given them access to Crosby Avenue, which I doubt they want. If you're going to have it travel via a longer route, you might as well have it serve where the people want (PBP). Either that, or you might as well keep it as is (terminating at PBP) or just cut it completely.

 

And having seen the cost-efficiency numbers, I'd just cut it completely, unless somehow, there's people along Westchester Avenue that would benefit from having a bus serve the street.

 

Just come out and say it already... You think people should pay taxes and get nothing in return. You would be perfectly fine cutting service to a community and leaving it with nothing and at the same time, the areas that you would cut service from, you would have no problem with them paying more taxes for nothing in return, so what in the hell are they paying taxes for? Oh I know they're just paying taxes to support other communities and prop up their bus service. :mad:

 

You know it's easy for you to say cut this and cut that when you have bus service and plenty of it. Here in NYC more than half of the population does NOT own a car, so how in the hell do you expect people to get around? Oh, let's cut their service because they don't use it as much and they can walk to wherever they have to go because they don't need their service right?? That's my point. Shortline was perfectly fine cutting the B31s' hours back because he felt that people could afford taxis in Gerritsen Beach. What someone earns should NOT determine whether or not they get service. Hell the Upper East Side is pretty affluent, so why don't we cut all of their bus service since they can afford to take taxis. That's ridiculous! :mad: :tdown: And isn't it "ironic" that the neighborhoods where folks are always pushing for service to be cut or saying folks can just "get a car" are either middle class communities or more affluent areas. :mad: Meanwhile they still have their bus service in the neighborhoods. Friggin' hypocrites. :mad:

 

Geez. I didn't know that the one and only purpose for taxes was to support public transportation. I thought it was to support all the services that they use: Schools, roads, senior services, utilities, emergency services, etc.

 

And NYC is a very old, dense and walkable city: 100 years ago, nobody had a car and they were able to manage fine. If the MTA decided to drop all of the service, 3/4 of the city (and most of those autoless households) would still have some sort of service. It might be more expensive and less frequent than it is today, but private companies would be able to run decent service.

 

The reason transit should or shouldn't be cut (like I said for the 1,000th time) is because of its ridership. If it gets good ridership, it should stay. If not, it should go (which is why you're only proving my argument by mentioning the UES: an affluent area with good transit service). That's why I changed my stance on the X90: It got decent ridership, so with a reduction in frequency, it should stay (either that, or JAzumah can come in with his service. Either way is fine)

 

The reason ShortLine (and me and probably other members as well) wanted service to be reduced was because nobody used it. We're not talking about during the day when there's at least decent ridership: We're talking about at night when there is very little ridership.

 

@checkmatechamp - under my plan, the Bx4A would be junked in favor of restoring the former Bx14. In Country Club, however, I would want the bus to lay over on Middletown Road (likely at Middletown and Stadium) instead of in front of residences...going up Stadium Avenue and coming back down Ohm Avenue.

 

As for why it exists---the Bruckner has isolated Country Club (and parts of Throgs Neck) from the rest of the Bronx.

 

I think Parkchester is better served with the Bx4A than the Bx14. From what everybody is saying, ridership was close to nothing east of PBP.

 

And the Bruckner may isolate them, but it also isolates Sheepshead Bay, and B4 ridership is much higher than Bx24 ridership.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, it was hard to figure out. I thought that there would be some stops on the westbound side, because that's all residential, but there wouldn't be any stops on the eastbound side, because there's Pelham Bay Park, so I decided to check it out.

 

And that's news to me about the Bx5 (seriously, with the more frequent service and more destinations, I thought they would've taken it).

 

And the original reason I brought up spite was because I thought you were saying to have the Bx5 bypass the neighborhood (I forgot about the Q50) and cut the Bx24.

 

When you mentioned that you'd keep the Bx24 (and CC riders wouldn't be as isolated as I originally thought, because of the Q50), my response was that there's no point having it bypass the ADA-accessable station (Pelham Bay Park) because they's what the residents were screaming for (in addition to Westchester Square service).

 

The way you would've routed it would've bypassed Pelham Bay Park, and instead given them access to Crosby Avenue, which I doubt they want. If you're going to have it travel via a longer route, you might as well have it serve where the people want (PBP). Either that, or you might as well keep it as is (terminating at PBP) or just cut it completely.

 

And having seen the cost-efficiency numbers, I'd just cut it completely, unless somehow, there's people along Westchester Avenue that would benefit from having a bus serve the street.

 

So you forgot the Q50, I'm not holding that against you.... it happens...

 

still though, you could have simply asked if CC folks took the bx5, instead of jumping to the conclusion that I was out to stick it to them.... CC wasn't even on my mind when I brought that up; it was simply an attempt (albeit a meager one) to speed up the route a bit.... Now that I think back, I remember the MTA makin a similar mention of removing stops along bruckner, except they wanted to do it north of E Tremont.....

 

There's just as much not a point having the bx24 avoiding PBP, as much as it isn't a point granting each & every complaint that community files.... I really don't care that a longer route would be formed; at this point I feel they should take whatever they get, if the MTA were to send 24's to westchester sq....

 

Keeping it at PBP would only yield more complaints about wanting westchester sq.... like I said before, they'll keep on sounding off until they get a service similar to/exactly like the old 14 back....

 

...and I'm sayin, that aint happenin cap'n....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But if you send it to Westchester Square, wouldn't they end up complaining about it missing PBP? Then the MTA is right back where they started as far as complaints go.

 

I mean, what's on Crosby that they would really want to go to? There's a supermarket, but they didn't express the desire to go there. (Plus Crosby Avenue already has the Bx8, which offers more destinations than the Bx24)

 

I mean, true, you can't grant every one of their complaints, but it doesn't cost anything extra to send it via PBP vs. Crosby Avenue. And if it resembles the old Bx14 (minus serving Parkchester), I don't see a problem.

 

But like I said, seeing the low ridership, I think they should just get rid of the Bx24 and have them go to Bruckner Blvd if they really want bus service. I can't picture an extension to Westchester Square really improving ridership.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But if you send it to Westchester Square, wouldn't they end up complaining about it missing PBP? Then the MTA is right back where they started as far as complaints go.

 

I mean, what's on Crosby that they would really want to go to? There's a supermarket, but they didn't express the desire to go there. (Plus Crosby Avenue already has the Bx8, which offers more destinations than the Bx24)

 

I mean, true, you can't grant every one of their complaints, but it doesn't cost anything extra to send it via PBP vs. Crosby Avenue. And if it resembles the old Bx14 (minus serving Parkchester), I don't see a problem.

 

But like I said, seeing the low ridership, I think they should just get rid of the Bx24 and have them go to Bruckner Blvd if they really want bus service. I can't picture an extension to Westchester Square really improving ridership.

Yeah, they'll continue complaining, that's the point !!

 

This aint about what's on crosby (moving it on crosby is not an idea I'm pushing/advocating for... you seem to think that's the case).... I can ask the same type of question; "what's on westchester av" that's deserving of bus service....

 

secondly, YOU say "minus serving parkchester".... that doesn't mean that THEY won't try to make a push for such an extension.... seen it on a couple occasions where a route has been diverted/altered somewhere, and a community will complain little by little until the original route before w/e diversion takes place, comes back in full form..... You have the 24 serve PBP, and go down westchester av to westchester sq., that gives them hope.... We gotten this far, let's continue to push the envelope....

 

Dude, none of us that knows any better, sees an extension to westchester sq. improving ridership.... little FYI here - westchester av north of tremont never got decent usage.... not when the old bx14 ran along that stretch, not the half of the current bx8 that uses it to get to crosby (it picks up AFTER it turns the corner onto crosby), and not the other half that the current bx5 uses to get to PBP from crosby....

 

good chance they moved the 5 off bruckner & moved it on crosby & westchester av b/c they felt it was wasted mileage (meaning, where virtually no one was embarking/disembarking); bx5 basically ran nonstop along that part of bruckner up there.....

 

....and don't sit there & tell me you can't grant every one of their complaints.... then in the same breath, tell me you don't see a problem with extending the 24 down westchester av to westchester sq (including your little stipulation there).... it really doesn't matter how it gets extended down there (if it were to), there will be no satisfaction granted with those ppl.....

 

I'm done w/ this particular circular argument....

With those folks, the complaints aint gonna end either way.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

secondly, YOU say "minus serving parkchester".... that doesn't mean that THEY won't try to make a push for such an extension.... seen it on a couple occasions where a route has been diverted/altered somewhere, and a community will complain little by little until the original route before w/e diversion takes place, comes back in full form..... You have the 24 serve PBP, and go down westchester av to westchester sq., that gives them hope.... We gotten this far, let's continue to push the envelope....

 

....and don't sit there & tell me you can't grant every one of their complaints.... then in the same breath, tell me you don't see a problem with extending the 24 down westchester av to westchester sq (including your little stipulation there).... it really doesn't matter how it gets extended down there (if it were to), there will be no satisfaction granted with those ppl.....

 

I'm done w/ this particular circular argument....

With those folks, the complaints aint gonna end either way.....

 

But is there anything of interest in Parkchester that CC residents would want?

 

But in any case, I see your point: Even if they got Westchester Square and PBP, they'd still complain.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Geez. I didn't know that the one and only purpose for taxes was to support public transportation. I thought it was to support all the services that they use: Schools, roads, senior services, utilities, emergency services, etc.

 

Of course it's more than just transportation. HOWEVER, you can't suggest that people pay taxes and have their services cut while other folks freeload off of the system and get more service. I most certainly would be opposed to any more further cuts to the B31 if it meant more service for say the B46, which suffers terribly from farebeaters. :tdown:

 

And NYC is a very old, dense and walkable city: 100 years ago, nobody had a car and they were able to manage fine. If the MTA decided to drop all of the service, 3/4 of the city (and most of those autoless households) would still have some sort of service. It might be more expensive and less frequent than it is today, but private companies would be able to run decent service.

 

We're not living back 100 years ago, so that is immaterial. We're living in 2011 and now and days people NEED public transportation to get around. This is NYC, not the boonies somewhere. There's a reason folks don't have cars and it's because there are too many people here for folks to have cars and we NEED to supply all areas with decent transportation because ALL areas pay taxes.

 

The reason transit should or shouldn't be cut (like I said for the 1,000th time) is because of its ridership. If it gets good ridership, it should stay. If not, it should go (which is why you're only proving my argument by mentioning the UES: an affluent area with good transit service). That's why I changed my stance on the X90: It got decent ridership, so with a reduction in frequency, it should stay (either that, or JAzumah can come in with his service. Either way is fine)

 

That is total BS. That's not the only reason because if it was many lines would be cut based solely on ridership numbers.

 

The reason ShortLine (and me and probably other members as well) wanted service to be reduced was because nobody used it. We're not talking about during the day when there's at least decent ridership: We're talking about at night when there is very little ridership.

 

Oh please... There are plenty of bus lines with low ridership at night, so that is a poor argument. Why should a suburban area like Gerritsen Beach lose overnight service when other areas of the city have low ridership at night as well and still have their service? I bet if I suggested that a poor area lose their overnight service and it had low ridership there would be much more opposition to that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1) Of course it's more than just transportation. HOWEVER, you can't suggest that people pay taxes and have their services cut while other folks freeload off of the system and get more service. I most certainly would be opposed to any more further cuts to the B31 if it meant more service for say the B46, which suffers terribly from farebeaters. :tdown:

 

2) We're not living back 100 years ago, so that is immaterial. We're living in 2011 and now and days people NEED public transportation to get around. This is NYC, not the boonies somewhere. There's a reason folks don't have cars and it's because there are too many people here for folks to have cars and we NEED to supply all areas with decent transportation because ALL areas pay taxes.

 

3) That is total BS. That's not the only reason because if it was many lines would be cut based solely on ridership numbers.

 

4) Oh please... There are plenty of bus lines with low ridership at night, so that is a poor argument. Why should a suburban area like Gerritsen Beach lose overnight service when other areas of the city have low ridership at night as well and still have their service? I bet if I suggested that a poor area lose their overnight service and it had low ridership there would be much more opposition to that.

 

1) But they're still getting some service. Plus, what about areas like Todt Hill that don't have (or want) bus service. I'm sure they pay plenty of taxes. They're still getting services and even if they don't get back all of their taxes in services, that's just how the tax system was designed. If the rich got a whole bunch of services, and the poor got nothing, what kind of society would that be?

 

And like I said, the B46 gets a lot of farebeaters, but even if you took them out of the equation, it cheaper to run than the B31.

 

2) But the point is that the city would still be able to function if there wasn't any subsidized transit. Yeah, if there was no transit at all, we'd be in trouble: We'd all be living in tiny apartments in Manhattan and anybody still in the outer boroughs would be screwed.

 

I mean, the dollar vans in Flatbush are living proof that a private company can come in and provide unsubsidized rides.

 

3) Well, there's network coverage as well. The S55/S56 are still around because if they weren't, the few riders who depend on them would be stranded.

 

4) If you want the simple explantion, it missed the threshold by 9 riders. If a route has 45 riders or less between 01:00 and 05:00, it gets the axe, and the B31 had 36 riders.

 

Now if you want a more in-depth analysis, it's because specifically in the Gerritsen Beach area, there were practically no riders. Originally, I felt that they should make an exemption for the B31 because it was a short route (the B25 only got something like 55 riders and it's much longer), but everybody said that most of the ridership was along Avenue R, and since that has somewhat of an alternative (either walk or take the B82), it should remain cut.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But is there anything of interest in Parkchester that CC residents would want?

 

But in any case, I see your point: Even if they got Westchester Square and PBP, they'd still complain.

 

Parkchester has more places more ppl. actually shop at than Westchester Sq. does.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Country Club again????? I just read the whole thread. If they really wanted Westchester Sq and Parkchester service, they would've used it and the 14 wouldn't have gotten the axe. The only change IMO that the MTA should make is fulfill the request of less stops. If thats what they want, they should have it. Its less bus stops to maintain. Less $$$. Then after that, close the book on it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of course it's more than just transportation. HOWEVER, you can't suggest that people pay taxes and have their services cut while other folks freeload off of the system and get more service. I most certainly would be opposed to any more further cuts to the B31 if it meant more service for say the B46, which suffers terribly from farebeaters. :tdown:

 

 

 

We're not living back 100 years ago, so that is immaterial. We're living in 2011 and now and days people NEED public transportation to get around. This is NYC, not the boonies somewhere. There's a reason folks don't have cars and it's because there are too many people here for folks to have cars and we NEED to supply all areas with decent transportation because ALL areas pay taxes.

 

 

 

That is total BS. That's not the only reason because if it was many lines would be cut based solely on ridership numbers.

 

 

 

Oh please... There are plenty of bus lines with low ridership at night, so that is a poor argument. Why should a suburban area like Gerritsen Beach lose overnight service when other areas of the city have low ridership at night as well and still have their service? I bet if I suggested that a poor area lose their overnight service and it had low ridership there would be much more opposition to that.

 

I think night service on B31 should be every 75 mins like B82. Maybe an extension based on ocean parkway can boost ridership question is to where??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

These people just want the damn Bx14 back. They need to stop b9tching already. Besides, most of the people over there own a car. If you dont like it, GET A CAR...

 

There are areas in the CITY with NO service at all.. And they have a car themselves nor bit9h around smh..

 

Maybe the (MTA) could send the Bx24 to Westchester Square to shut them up. But i highly doubt it ill help..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Parkchester has more places more ppl. actually shop at than Westchester Sq. does.....

 

I see...

 

I think night service on B31 should be every 75 mins like B82. Maybe an extension based on ocean parkway can boost ridership question is to where??

 

The runtime is 12 minutes at night, so theoretically, you can run 30 minute service with one bus. The problem is that the MTA probably felt it was best if they were timed with the (Q), so they ran the bus every 40 minutes (the (Q) runs every 20 minutes at night)

 

At night, I doubt ridership is going to boost ridership within Gerritsen Beach. If the subway doesn't do it, nothing will.

 

The thing is that if the B31 were turned into a full-length route to Bay Ridge (via Avenue P, 65th Street, and Bay Ridge Avenue), it probably would've gained those extra 9 riders needed to maintain overnight service, and Gerritsen Beach would've gotten the overnight service, even though they wouldn't have used the bus any more than they did when it just went to the subway.

 

But I guess you could make that argument for the B1: I doubt Manhattan Beach residents use the B1 overnight, but it runs because it's used in the areas further west.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

These people just want the damn Bx14 back. They need to stop b9tching already. Besides, most of the people over there own a car. If you dont like it, GET A CAR...

 

There are areas in the CITY with NO service at all.. And they have a car themselves nor bit9h around smh..

 

Maybe the (MTA) could send the Bx24 to Westchester Square to shut them up. But i highly doubt it ill help..

 

And add to the fact that the nearest alternatives (in the case of Country Club, where the Bx5 and Q50, and to a lesser extent, the (6) at Pelham Bay Park) aren't too far away.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And add to the fact that the nearest alternatives (in the case of Country Club, where the Bx5 and Q50, and to a lesser extent, the (6) at Pelham Bay Park) aren't too far away.

 

Yep. I can walk from I95 on Country Club road (or what ever its called) to the end west end of the area.. I dont need to ride the BX24 to get on the BX5/Q50 or Pelham IRT.. But for those in the bit9hing Club area, cant because they just want to ride the bus cuz they are just toooo lazy..

 

Idk why people over there are complaining, ive been on the BX24 and that one bus is pretty empty at times, its like the former M18 which carried less. I dont see even a point of a bus service there, id have them asswipe walk or a get car. They dont like it? MOVE OUT.... They should be glade they have some sort of service. I feel bad for those without them, but im glade they are not jumping the gun at the MTA for lack of service.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yep. I can walk from I95 on Country Club road (or what ever its called) to the end west end of the area.. I dont need to ride the BX24 to get on the BX5/Q50 or Pelham IRT.. But for those in the bit9hing Club area, cant because they just want to ride the bus cuz they are just toooo lazy..

 

Idk why people over there are complaining, ive been on the BX24 and that one bus is pretty empty at times, its like the former M18 which carried less. I dont see even a point of a bus service there, id have them asswipe walk or a get car. They dont like it? MOVE OUT.... They should be glade they have some sort of service. I feel bad for those without them, but im glade they are not jumping the gun at the MTA for lack of service.

 

best post I wanted to say that:tup::tup::tup::tup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see...

 

 

 

The runtime is 12 minutes at night, so theoretically, you can run 30 minute service with one bus. The problem is that the MTA probably felt it was best if they were timed with the (Q), so they ran the bus every 40 minutes (the (Q) runs every 20 minutes at night)

 

At night, I doubt ridership is going to boost ridership within Gerritsen Beach. If the subway doesn't do it, nothing will.

 

The thing is that if the B31 were turned into a full-length route to Bay Ridge (via Avenue P, 65th Street, and Bay Ridge Avenue), it probably would've gained those extra 9 riders needed to maintain overnight service, and Gerritsen Beach would've gotten the overnight service, even though they wouldn't have used the bus any more than they did when it just went to the subway.

 

But I guess you could make that argument for the B1: I doubt Manhattan Beach residents use the B1 overnight, but it runs because it's used in the areas further west.

I was thinking extend via ocean parkway or bay parkway/ave p to SI
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To me, the easiest solution would be to combine this with the Bx23---as follows:

 

PHB (Bruckner Boulevard)-1-2-3-4-Bay Plaza-5-PHB (Westchester Avenue)-Westchester-Crosby-Middletown-Jarvis/Country Club, and then in and out of Country Club only on Stadium Avenue. Terminate at Country Club Road---if they need Westchester Square, they can transfer at Crosby Avenue to the Bx8.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To me, the easiest solution would be to combine this with the Bx23---as follows:

 

PHB (Bruckner Boulevard)-1-2-3-4-Bay Plaza-5-PHB (Westchester Avenue)-Westchester-Crosby-Middletown-Jarvis/Country Club, and then in and out of Country Club only on Stadium Avenue. Terminate at Country Club Road---if they need Westchester Square, they can transfer at Crosby Avenue to the Bx8.

 

Thats what i thought. Combine the BX23/24 into one, but i heard people in Country Club cant stand those of Co-Op City.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thats what i thought. Combine the BX23/24 into one, but i heard people in Country Club cant stand those of Co-Op City.

 

Those Cuntry Club folk can't get along with anyone anywhere....You send the Bx23 down there and they'll have a shit fit.... I say, just cut ALL bus service from those bastards!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.