Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 2, 2011 Share #51 Posted October 2, 2011 Not everybody using a bus rather than the subway is lazy. Aside from the obvious (having lots of bags, being a senior/disabled, being tired after work, etc), there are times when the bus can be faster. Think about it: If somebody is around 219th Street and wants to get to Gun Hill Road for the Bx28/38, are they going to climb up the stairs, wait for the , take it for one stop, and climb down the stairs when they could just take the Bx39 (or Bx41 before the reductions)? Buses serve a different type of rider than the subway. Aside from people who can't or don't want to climb the stairs, they're used for shorter trips where it's not worth climbing those stairs. You could make the same argument for local buses vs. limited-stop buses: If a person is going between one local stop and another one, and they're not very far apart (say, from Jules Drive to Signs Road along Richmond Avenue), there's no point in taking the limited when the local is easier and faster. I don't even know why he comments on buses when he swears up and down that the subway is ALWAYS quicker and that people who use buses are lazy. B) That's like me tonight... I wanted to stop a Whole Foods, so I took the M2 down to 14th and 5th and walked from there. Sure, I could walk to Grand Central, but in the time that it takes to walk there (a good 10 minutes alone), I can just time the bus and get to Union Square in about 20 minutes, which is about the same amount of time that it takes on the subway when you factor in the walk and waiting for the train and then walking up the stairs from the subway (2 flights of stairs at that)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted October 2, 2011 Share #52 Posted October 2, 2011 I don't even know why he comments on buses when he swears up and down that the subway is ALWAYS quicker and that people who use buses are lazy. B) That's like me tonight... I wanted to stop a Whole Foods, so I took the M2 down to 14th and 5th and walked from there. Sure, I could walk to Grand Central, but in the time that it takes to walk there (a good 10 minutes alone), I can just time the bus and get to Union Square in about 20 minutes, which is about the same amount of time that it takes on the subway when you factor in the walk and waiting for the train and then walking up the stairs from the subway (2 flights of stairs at that)... I was in the area about 2 hrs ago; was tryna figure out what was w/ that ambulance truck parked across the street from that whole foods... Anyway, I didn't take any manhattan local bus though.... After comin back from willowbrook mall, I walked straight from PABT to Canal st (47 mins).... on a nice breezy day like this, I'm walkin ! Plus, I wanted no part of union square subway.... I also take offense to folks that use buses are lazy... How in the hell can you be pro-bus & making anti-bus comments @ the same time.... I smell a hypocrite...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgor Posted October 2, 2011 Share #53 Posted October 2, 2011 was that even nessesary??? why don't posts like this rack up infractions its very offensive???? If you actually spent a second to at least use proper spelling then yes it would be, but he has a very valid point. Also, would it kill you to check the grammar once in a while and only use one or two exclamation marks or question marks at a time rather than just making them the majority of your posts? Seriously, present yourself in a professional manner and you might actually be taken seriously for once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 2, 2011 Share #54 Posted October 2, 2011 I was in the area about 2 hrs ago; was tryna figure out what was w/ that ambulance truck parked across the street from that whole foods... Anyway, I didn't take any manhattan local bus though.... After comin back from willowbrook mall, I walked straight from PABT to Canal st (47 mins).... on a nice breezy day like this, I'm walkin ! Plus, I wanted no part of union square subway.... I also take offense to folks that use buses are lazy... How in the hell can you be pro-bus & making anti-bus comments @ the same time.... I smell a hypocrite...... Yeah, I was over there around 22:30 ish or so. I just wore a American made black t-shirt and a pair of American made black pants and some brown Italian shoes that I like to relax in... I like it just like this and I refuse to wear a coat until mid October at that. I walked over from the M2 to Whole Foods, got some beer and some grub and walked over to the X10 stop, so I didn't even pay attention. Wanted to get home and unwind and drink and eat a bit. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted October 2, 2011 Share #55 Posted October 2, 2011 Yeah, I was over there around 22:30 ish or so. I just wore a American made black t-shirt and a pair of American made black pants and some brown Italian shoes that I like to relax in... I like it just like this and I refuse to wear a coat until mid October at that. I walked over from the M2 to Whole Foods, got some beer and some grub and walked over to the X10 stop, so I didn't even pay attention. Wanted to get home and unwind and drink and eat a bit. :cool: I don't wear coats, I wear hoodies..... don't care if it's 20" of snow or if it's 10 degrees outside either..... 22:30 huh.... just checked my log... I caught the at 10.. err, 22:17, which means I was around union sq. around exactly 22 hundred... only reason I took the train was b/c the BM's stop running late on weekends :mad:.... only reason I got on @ canal st was b/c I had to take a leak, or else I was gonna push the envelope & walk all the way to Whitehall..... I wasn't the least bit fatigued either..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted October 2, 2011 Share #56 Posted October 2, 2011 If you actually spent a second to at least use proper spelling then yes it would be, but he has a very valid point. Also, would it kill you to check the grammar once in a while and only use one or two exclamation marks or question marks at a time rather than just making them the majority of your posts? Seriously, present yourself in a professional manner and you might actually be taken seriously for once. err I try to be when making suggestions and presenting opinions it's kinda hard when dealing with immature bashers ya know. I was in the area about 2 hrs ago; was tryna figure out what was w/ that ambulance truck parked across the street from that whole foods... Anyway, I didn't take any manhattan local bus though.... After comin back from willowbrook mall, I walked straight from PABT to Canal st (47 mins).... on a nice breezy day like this, I'm walkin ! Plus, I wanted no part of union square subway.... I also take offense to folks that use buses are lazy... How in the hell can you be pro-bus & making anti-bus comments @ the same time.... I smell a hypocrite...... OK I am pro transit in several modes I just don't favor lines that duplicate each other. But you have a valid point not here to even argue. I may take a break to finish up what I started when I talked with NJT later I may get around to MTA if I find anything astray or interesting that can be explored outside SI in relation to NJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatOne2k Posted October 2, 2011 Share #57 Posted October 2, 2011 There are some positives that came from the Bx39 extension. Earlier service to Clason Point 7 days a week (especially Sunday mornings). Earlier service from Clason Point on weekends (especially Sunday mornings). Later service leaving Clason Point on weekends. Some negatives The last bus to Clason Point leave 9 minutes earlier on Sunday evenings More delays on route throughout the day even after midnight (especially Friday and Saturday nights). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1447 Posted October 2, 2011 Share #58 Posted October 2, 2011 I would of kept the Bx41 to 241st. Everytime during the Rush hour i pass Gun Hill and Webster, the NB Bx41s are packed. Once it hits WPR people run up the Bx39 or the . Looks like the MTA just wants to kill off Bus service from WPR and have people use the train... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatOne2k Posted October 2, 2011 Share #59 Posted October 2, 2011 I would of kept the Bx41 to 241st. Everytime during the Rush hour i pass Gun Hill and Webster, the NB Bx41s are packed. Once it hits WPR people run up the Bx39 or the . Looks like the MTA just wants to kill off Bus service from WPR and have people use the train... Are the N/B Bx55 buses also crowded now at Gun Hill since it serves the same purpose as the Bx41 for those getting on at Fordham and up? The is also there to help the out during the rush hour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted October 2, 2011 Share #60 Posted October 2, 2011 I'm gonna say this once, 1995 ain't got shit on 2010 as far as these cuts go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatOne2k Posted October 2, 2011 Share #61 Posted October 2, 2011 1995 Bronx cuts late night service cuts Bx3, Bx11, Bx13, Bx17, Bx33, Bx55 (north of Fordham Road) Sunday service eliminated Bx20 completely eliminated Bx24 Bx14 likely had its running hours reduced as well 1995 had more late night service to cut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted October 2, 2011 Share #62 Posted October 2, 2011 As for Queens, the only ones I remember was the (Q26) and (Q42) had weekend service cut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cotb16 Posted October 2, 2011 Share #63 Posted October 2, 2011 Are the N/B Bx55 buses also crowded now at Gun Hill since it serves the same purpose as the Bx41 for those getting on at Fordham and up? The is also there to help the out during the rush hour Not so much since Bx41's often arrive before Bx55's do. At Gun Hill/White Plains, it's a case of "what bus comes first" since most riders are only going to Fordham Road and the LTD doesn't save too much time between Gun Hill and Fordham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted October 3, 2011 Share #64 Posted October 3, 2011 part 1: http://nyctransitforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=484489&postcount=12 Here's part 2 of my assessments... While some of the ridership increase on the two routes can be attributed to the increased reliability caused by the split of the routes, it is assumed that the majority of the increase is related to the service reductions. Ridership increased on the remaining routes (B61/62 and B57) on weekdays and weekends. Former B77 customers are now likely using the B61, and former B75 customers are now likely using the B61, B57, and the F and G train service, specifically to or from the Bergen St, Carroll St, Smith-9 Sts, 4 Av /9 St, 7 Av and 15 St-Prospect Park stations. Overall cost per rider for weekdays and weekends was down by almost 10%. On weekdays, the cost per rider of the B57 increased slightly, mainly due to the fact that the route was extended over a relatively low ridership segment (Court and Smith Streets). The restructuring of these routes did not adversely affect crowding; weekday and weekend loads are within NYCT guidelines Basically what this ALLLLL this is alluding to, is the notion that they were justified in splitting the (old) B61.... As for the CPR (cost per rider, which I'll refer to it as from now on) of the B57, it's safe to say that's pretty obvious.... the old B75 was dying a slow death (along w/ the old B69, which I'll get to in a minute), so I can't see a scenario where the CPR of the B57 would decrease, unless it obtained a whole wad of riders along other portions of the route.... surely they aint expect more riders to come out the woodwork on the B57 (on top of however many there were on the B75 along smith/court sts) lol... the restructions of these routes aint adversely affect crowding b/c: - as service on the B75 worsened over the years, some of the riders that were left (lol) started seeking subway service... - the B75 aint have any (consistent) crowds to begin with (even before the fact mentioned in the point above), so there were no crowds to have to have dealt with, with the extension of the B57, and.... - virtually 100% of w/e riders that used to take the old B77, now take (current) B61's Restructuring of the B69 by combining it with the B67 in Park Slope increased the viability of this north-south route through Fort Greene and Clinton Hill, which otherwise might have been discontinued. This increase in ridership on weekdays is primarily due to riders shifting from the parallel B67 route which lost riders and experienced an increase in the cost per rider. Though the B69 rerouting captured some of weekday B67 customers, declines in B67 customers should be viewed at least partially as a separate trend because ridership on the route had already been declining. Although indirect, they admit it..... they saved the B69 at the expense of the B67... To throw salt on the wound, and the part I find disgusting - They say the the B67 was losing ridership, but yet they move the B69 along 7th av AND decrease service on the 67 (and eventually boost service on the B69).... ^^ to all you thinkers out there, tell me how on earth would you expect B67 usage to improve under those conditions..... They must play the ppl. that use these routes everyday for fools.... Park Slopers/Slopians realize there has been on OVERALL decrease in service along 7th av, and that's not (obviously) factoring weekends, with which there is no B69 service.... (Sure this was MTA bus, but still).... How is it that the Q21 was spared w/o compromising Q11 service... but yet the B69 was spared, and B67 was (greatly, IMO) compromised.... Follow-Up ActionsFollowing this service change NYCT received complaints about bus bunching on the two routes along the sections where both B67 and B69 service operate. Additionally, overall ridership for the two routes declined slightly, so NYCT is proposing to slightly decrease the levels of service and to increase the running-time for both routes. It is expected that this will make the service levels better match demand and that the increase in running time will help alleviate the reliability issues. As shown in the table above, the combined B67/B69 routes will continue to meet MTA loading guidelines. In plain english, the B69, gradually, will end up being the last man standing, so to speak.... Whatever headways that'd end up resulting from that, your guess is as good as mine..... How many ppl. do they plan on cramming on trains ?!??!!! Ridership on the two routes [b1 & B64] has fallen slightly, although it is worth noting that overall ridership in Brooklyn had been falling prior to the implementation of the service reductions. The cost per rider improved on the B1 and got worse on the B64, though it has improved for the combined routes.More detailed stop-by-stop ridership shows that the number of people traveling west of the point where the two routes were swapped (13th Avenue) did not change dramatically. Additionally, the number of people transferring between the two routes stayed relatively the same before and after June 2010..... Ridership on the portion of the B64 south of 13th Avenue declined by 1590 customers per weekday. The section of the B82 route that runs nearby and parallel to the discontinued section of the B64 (south of 25 Avenue) had an increase of 400 passengers per day, which can likely be attributed a shift in riders from the B64. Previous B64 customers may also have shifted to the D at the Coney Island-Stillwell Avenue or Bay 50th Street stations or to private automobiles. First of all, former Harway av riders aint shifted to no @ Bay 50th, I'm not buying that.... I'm willing to bet these people are making their way to the express bus (notice how that wasn't listed as a possibility) or catching the B82..... speaking of the B82, seems like service is actually improving on that route.... Anyway, I love how they bring up that snippet about overall ridership decreasing in Brooklyn, for this particular segment.... Which I find ironic as all hell, b/c I noticed ridership was INCREASING on BOTH of those routes before they tampered w/ it..... The difference now is that, w/e increase in riders that was ongoing w/ the (old) B1, increased tenfold afterwards.... and w/e decrease in B64 riders, decreased at a higher rate than B1's increased.... Basically what I'm sayin in that paragraph is that, the MTA is forcefeeding 86th st service (namely, the B1) down those patrons throats... you live/work/etc. on Bath av, walk over to 86th.... Benson av, 86th st service for you too... even along cropsey av in bath beach, 86th st service also (although you have the option of xferring off the B8, instead of walking)...... Hell, the CPR increasing however much it did, is self-explanatory..... Ridership patterns on the B8 and B70 between the VA Hospital and Bay Ridge remained largely unchanged (probably in part due to the fact that the B70 was the primary service between the two locations prior to the reductions). The percent of customers boarding the route in this segment remained the same. Although the cost per rider for both the B8 and B70 increased, the two routes are still more efficient than the route they replaced (the B37 – which had a cost per rider of $2.80 on weekdays and $4.10 on weekends), and NYCT achieved significant savings from this service change. I don't know about that 1st paragraph.... before they truncated the B8, more ppl. was seeking B8's over B70's b/w Bay ridge & VA hosp.... but yeah, ridership levels b/w those 2 points were maintained because were talkin about service to a HOSPITAL.... If you ask me, anything was more efficient than the B37; that route carried air north of 65th st throughout midday hours..... B4 ridership declined following the shortening of the B4 route, and it is not clear what transportation alternative customers are using. The nearby B36 lost ridership as well. The cost per rider on the B4 and B36 rose on weekdays, while the weekend change was mixed. Some B4 customers may have shifted to the B44; however, given the size of the route (both in terms of length and ridership), it would be difficult to see any change attributable to the B4. Follow-Up Actions To better match demand, In September 2011, NYCT will increase B4 service during the weekday morning peak and to decrease service during the evenings seven days a week. Furthermore, NYCT will adjust the span of service during that time to meet demand at the same time. This will bring the levels of service on this route in line with guidelines, as shown above under “Guideline Capacity.” To me it's very clear, Taxicab companies got the kool-aid grin down in that area..... that, and the revving up of the almighty personal vehicle.... this would explain w/e lost ridership on the B36 they're referring to.... The part that bothers me a bit, is that you may have the select few (from points east) footing it out to Sheepshead on the , over taking the 36 itself.... Difficult to see any attributable change of the B4 from riders moving to B44's? Of course it is, b/c that makes no sense whatsoever... Those folks in that part of Brooklyn aint goin ditch Brighton service for IRT service b/c they were royally f***ed over w/ the truncation of the B4..... That was just a dumb assumption to have made, and simply shows these guys don't know what they're talkin about.... p.s: stop comin up w/ conclusions to ppl's commutes by judging what they MIGHT do, looking at the bus map..... Furthermore, the CPR rising on the B36 may have to do with more ppl. seeking 74's down in CI..... the CPR rising on the B4 is obvious; too many ppl. have been inconvenienced by that route truncation..... Follow up actions... here's a thought, how about FULLY restoring B4 service down there in sheepshead... don't give me this bit about adjusting service spans, and increasing peak service while decreasing late night service..... part 3 comin soon y'all..... 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checkmatechamp13 Posted October 3, 2011 Share #65 Posted October 3, 2011 Furthermore, the CPR rising on the B36 may have to do with more ppl. seeking 74's down in CI..... the CPR rising on the B4 is obvious; too many ppl. have been inconvenienced by that route truncation..... The reason why it rose was because there were more riders (per mile) in the Sheepshead Bay portion that in the portion west of Sheepshead Bay. If anything, that implied that there was something else that should've been cut: Maybe the western end along 77th Street. And that might've been part of the reason for the increase in B1 ridership. Not only do you have people from Bath Avenue going over to 86th Street and taking the B1 to the B82 (if you're going to transfer, you might as well use the more frequent route), but you probably have some former B4 riders who are taking the B1 to the B36, rather than using the B4. As far as the ridership on the B36 decreasing, maybe people are deciding to just walk instead of take the bus. I mean, there's no real alternative. In Coney Island, you have the B74, and until Sheepshead Bay, the does sort of parallel it (which could account for some of the ridership loss), but I think a lot of the subway riders are getting fed up with transferring and deciding to just walk it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted October 3, 2011 Share #66 Posted October 3, 2011 The reason why it rose was because there were more riders (per mile) in the Sheepshead Bay portion that in the portion west of Sheepshead Bay. If anything, that implied that there was something else that should've been cut: Maybe the western end along 77th Street. And that might've been part of the reason for the increase in B1 ridership. Not only do you have people from Bath Avenue going over to 86th Street and taking the B1 to the B82 (if you're going to transfer, you might as well use the more frequent route), but you probably have some former B4 riders who are taking the B1 to the B36, rather than using the B4. As far as the ridership on the B36 decreasing, maybe people are deciding to just walk instead of take the bus. I mean, there's no real alternative. In Coney Island, you have the B74, and until Sheepshead Bay, the does sort of parallel it (which could account for some of the ridership loss), but I think a lot of the subway riders are getting fed up with transferring and deciding to just walk it out. 1st paragraph... If that's in reference to what I said about the B36, that reasoning clashes w/ what the MTA's saying about lost ridership on that route.... unless you're implying to me you don't believe there was a loss of ridership on the B36 (which, to tell the truth, I myself have doubts w/ that too).... I'm inclined to believe any added expense per rider that's ongoing on the B36, is due to a loss of ridership somewhere else... I mean, service hasn't increased on that route, so what else could be the cause of the CPR increase.... If that's in reference to what I said about the B4.... yeah, that's why I said the CPR going up is obvious.... The B4 carried whilst in Sheepshead, tie that in to less buses on the road on that route, and you have empt(ier) buses on the road - which equates to an increased CPR..... It's sad to see B4's ending so arbitrarily over there on CI av...... In these musings of mine, I'm tryin hard not to cluster it w/ my route ideas or w/e.... the posts are long enough... but yeh, I believe they could they could've actually saved pennies on the dollar per rider, to ridding itself of the portion west of 4th av - While still maintaining the Sheepshead portion of the B4.... even if they wanted to toy with the idea of increasing peak runs & decreasing nightly runs.... ^^ But of course, the MTA'd prollly question the amount of money being saved in that scenario.... smh.... 2nd paragraph... Yeah, riders are cramming onto all portions of the B1... there are no dead portions of the route really, & I don't think service was reduced any, so I could see the CPR decreasing..... I said somethin similar to this in another thread before, where I said the result of the (current) B1 is the perfect scenario/type of route in the MTA's eyes..... 3rd paragraph... You'll find way more people walking along mermaid than you will walking along surf, bro.... that's just the way it is down there (maybe Shortline can shed more insight as to why that is, since he used to live out there).... More related to what you said in that paragraph though, yeh, that's what I meant about w/e few ppl. in Sheepshead possibly footing it out..... I have noticed a few more walkers than what I normally used to notice, walking along Av Z..... b/c most ppl. that take 36's past (east of) the subway, are seeking B44's.... since I sometime take the 36 to the 44 when coming back from nathan's, I'd say out of every 20 riders that disembark at nostrand/ av Z: - 11-12 are xferring to 44's (about half, sounds about right, percentage-wise) - 1 person walks east along Z (towards batchelder) - 3 ppl walk north along nostrand... these are people most likely to grab a bite to eat or do some other bit of shopping before going home.... - 4-5 ppl. walk south along nostrand (virtually no one xfers from the B36 to a SB B44) ^^ that's just the ppl. that are taking the B36.... obviously none of that counts for the ppl. driving, walking it out to/from the subway, taking cabs to/from the subway, etc.... Now what percentage of Sheepshead residents are doing which of those 4, that I can't (as accurately) gauge..... I'm not factoring those that may be makin their way to the BM3.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted October 3, 2011 Share #67 Posted October 3, 2011 The reason why it rose was because there were more riders (per mile) in the Sheepshead Bay portion that in the portion west of Sheepshead Bay. If anything, that implied that there was something else that should've been cut: Maybe the western end along 77th Street. And that might've been part of the reason for the increase in B1 ridership. Not only do you have people from Bath Avenue going over to 86th Street and taking the B1 to the B82 (if you're going to transfer, you might as well use the more frequent route), but you probably have some former B4 riders who are taking the B1 to the B36, rather than using the B4. As far as the ridership on the B36 decreasing, maybe people are deciding to just walk instead of take the bus. I mean, there's no real alternative. In Coney Island, you have the B74, and until Sheepshead Bay, the does sort of parallel it (which could account for some of the ridership loss), but I think a lot of the subway riders are getting fed up with transferring and deciding to just walk it out. B36 is just unreliable ppl do not have that much patience they will stop waiting and will walk. I know I did it before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTA1992 Posted October 3, 2011 Share #68 Posted October 3, 2011 B36 is just unreliable ppl do not have that much patience they will stop waiting and will walk. I know I did it before But if people left at the same time and caught the same bus everyday, it would'nt seem so unreliable. And the fact that it takes people a while to board and get off contributes to this in places like Stillwell and Sheepshead stations. Everytime i ride to Nostrand, it takes about 2 minutes to leave stillwell because almost the whole bus emties out. Then at sheepshead, it takes between 3 and 5 minutes to leave. Plus red lights and traffic. And then theres the occaisional wheelchair. All of this contributes to this. Schedule wise though, its pretty good in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted October 3, 2011 Share #69 Posted October 3, 2011 Let's have your main transportation cut and then we'll tell you to get a car. All communities are entitled to decent transportation and this includes the Upper East Side and they too were hit hard by the cuts. Yes they have "alternatives", but those alternatives in many cases are already overflowing, which you fail to admit, so it isn't like they have all of these alternatives just because. #1. It's your main source of transportation by choice #2, That is a load of crap, the Lower East Side leading all the way down to Battery Park City got hit the worst in Manhattan. The Upper East Side only had 1 route gone with all the other routes with a service increase or restructured, the Lower East Side had alternatives taken away both subway and bus wise along with huge service reductions. Battery Park City lost a vital connection with the M9. The B39 and B51 routes were eliminated which were also vital connections for the handicapped as there were subway stations between the routes that were not ADA Accessible, so how can one justify those cuts? Compare the loss of the x90 to what happened down South. That's nothing at all for those folks up there :mad: :tdown: Well you're very wrong on that. They can get extremely packed. See Below. I take the M5 from Midtown all the way to the Heights on the regular, the only time the 5 is crushloaded is when there is a big gap in between the buses, then the 1st and 2nd buses get slammed and the 3rd is maybe half full. I will admit that the M5 needs a short turn in the in Midtown in the PMs to help out with uptown crowds. IMO, they need to work on the M104....the 5 and 7s run like clockwork....the 104s show up whenever the hell they feel like. Yep, and for the most part, it gets crowded going South up till 14th Street or St. Marks Place. My experience with the M104 so far seem to be O.K. 72nd down to 42nd is the real choking point of the route in both directions. The Times Square terminal is a hot mess, thats one of the causes of bunching... WELL IF YOU WANT RELIABLE AT RUSH HR YOU DON'T WANT M104!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! stop complaining you have the ,, and . Those are your traffic immune options if you don't want traffic. But to use a duplicate bus you have no right to complain at rush hr about reliability when more reliable options exist. Unless you can't use train but seriously look who we are dealing with here. Word of advice : Don't talk about things you have no idea about.... If you actually spent a second to at least use proper spelling then yes it would be, but he has a very valid point. Also, would it kill you to check the grammar once in a while and only use one or two exclamation marks or question marks at a time rather than just making them the majority of your posts? Seriously, present yourself in a professional manner and you might actually be taken seriously for once. LOL. One of the many awesome posts in this thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 4, 2011 Share #70 Posted October 4, 2011 #1. It's your main source of transportation by choice Oh please, like you would use a slower source of transportation by choice... #2, That is a load of crap, the Lower East Side leading all the way down to Battery Park City got hit the worst in Manhattan. The Upper East Side only had 1 route gone with all the other routes with a service increase or restructured, the Lower East Side had alternatives taken away both subway and bus wise along with huge service reductions. Battery Park City lost a vital connection with the M9. Yeah, but let's face it... Ridership is much higher on the Upper East Side than parts of Lower Manhattan, excluding the M15, which serves both areas in question. The B39 and B51 routes were eliminated which were also vital connections for the handicapped as there were subway stations between the routes that were not ADA Accessible, so how can one justify those cuts? I can certainly justify the B51... Growing up in Brooklyn, that bus was known to pick up very few passengers for years... The B39 on the other hand is another story. Compare the loss of the x90 to what happened down South. That's nothing at all for those folks up there :mad: :tdown: They also lost the M30. Furthermore, crosstown lines like the M79 DID see reductions in service and these are lines with fairly high ridership, so let's not sugarcoat the situation. You act as if the Upper East Side is getting such "glorious" service just because. They DO use their service, so their service is justified, as was the X90. It's just that the provided too much service on the X90. Even I saw how many X90s would be running half empty on the FDR and said to myself, "Why do these folks get so much service when we on Staten Island have some express bus lines cut before 18:30??". However, that doesn't mean the X90 should've been completely axed. Furthermore, they wanted to prop up the M15SBS. The M15SBS is not a replacement for the X90, especially since the M15 does not serve the WFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted October 4, 2011 Share #71 Posted October 4, 2011 Oh please, like you would use a slower source of transportation by choice... Yeah, but let's face it... Ridership is much higher on the Upper East Side than parts of Lower Manhattan, excluding the M15, which serves both areas in question. I can certainly justify the B51... Growing up in Brooklyn, that bus was known to pick up very few passengers for years... The B39 on the other hand is another story. They also lost the M30. Furthermore, crosstown lines like the M79 DID see reductions in service and these are lines with fairly high ridership, so let's not sugarcoat the situation. You act as if the Upper East Side is getting such "glorious" service just because. They DO use their service, so their service is justified, as was the X90. It's just that the provided too much service on the X90. Even I saw how many X90s would be running half empty on the FDR and said to myself, "Why do these folks get so much service when we on Staten Island have some express bus lines cut before 18:30??". However, that doesn't mean the X90 should've been completely axed. Furthermore, they wanted to prop up the M15SBS. The M15SBS is not a replacement for the X90, especially since the M15 does not serve the WFC. #1. I have no choice BUT to use a slower commute. I'm all the way up in Jamaica with VERY limited alternatives....LIRR becomes costly and there are no Express Buses near my area, so what do I have to do? Sit on a subway train for an hour or longer pending delays just to get to my destination. #2. I wouldnt say "much higher", I'd say equal to because you have a shit load of major routes down there like the M14A/D, M9, M22, M21, M103, M5 and quite a good bit of other routes. #3. So they lost the M30, big deal. The M31 & M72 routes were more heavily used than the M30. More riders used the M72 over the M30 and I've witnessed it several times. There have been plenty of times where buses would go empty to 5th and 57th and continue on and your gonna tell me that was vital? I've stood at 57th Street during the M30 durations and buses would go to 5th Avenue EMPTY and I mean EMPTY, CARRYING AIR EMPTY! And I've also seen times when some of those folk wouldnt get on the bus because it was an RTS.... #4. I never said that the M15 SBS was the perfect replacement for the x90 so you can throw that sour BS out the window. Yeah, the crosstown routes like the M79 saw some reductions...by like what...3-5 minutes? Big deal! The Lower East Side saw reductions of 10-20 minutes so I dont know what your bitching about in terms of that because service up there is STILL more frequent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BZGuy Posted October 4, 2011 Share #72 Posted October 4, 2011 Oh please, like you would use a slower source of transportation by choice... There are alot of days I prefer to take the M5 Limited home than be packed onto the . And don't say it's because I'm a busfanner because I get on @ 42nd/6th and alot of the same people who board there don't get off until the Heights. Just like when I'm coming home from Jersey in the PMs, I'll take the 124/129 from Secaucus Jct rather than the train. For some reason I prefer arriving back at the PABT rather than a crowded Penn Station. WELL IF YOU WANT RELIABLE AT RUSH HR YOU DON'T WANT M104!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! stop complaining you have the ,, and . Those are your traffic immune options if you don't want traffic. But to use a duplicate bus you have no right to complain at rush hr about reliability when more reliable options exist. Unless you can't use train but seriously look who we are dealing with here. I don't take the 104 uptown unless there is one pulling up right when I'm walking out of the PABT. My complaint with the 104 is that there is an easy fix to the problem and the is turning a blind eye to it. And Like Cait said, you really don't know what your talking about.....the reason they have buses that parallel the , and is because of the massive amounts of people who are traveling between uptown and midtown/downtown on a daily basis. If you think you can pack everybody on the subway you are more out of touch with reality than I thought you were, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 4, 2011 Share #73 Posted October 4, 2011 #1. I have no choice BUT to use a slower commute. I'm all the way up in Jamaica with VERY limited alternatives....LIRR becomes costly and there are no Express Buses near my area, so what do I have to do? Sit on a subway train for an hour or longer pending delays just to get to my destination. Yeah, but my point was if you could afford the LIRR, you would use it naturally so how can you say that it's a "choice"? Everyone values their time, including you, and those who are willing to pay more for it don't see it as a "choice". That's time that they have with their family or to do whatever with. #2. I wouldnt say "much higher", I'd say equal to because you have a shit load of major routes down there like the M14A/D, M9, M22, M21, M103, M5 and quite a good bit of other routes. The M5 carries somewhat, but it thins out past say Houston St, much like the M6 did. The subway in that area is a much quicker alternative and I know from experience. #3. So they lost the M30, big deal. The M31 & M72 routes were more heavily used than the M30. More riders used the M72 over the M30 and I've witnessed it several times. There have been plenty of times where buses would go empty to 5th and 57th and continue on and your gonna tell me that was vital? I've stood at 57th Street during the M30 durations and buses would go to 5th Avenue EMPTY and I mean EMPTY, CARRYING AIR EMPTY! And I've also seen times when some of those folk wouldnt get on the bus because it was an RTS.... #4. I never said that the M15 SBS was the perfect replacement for the x90 so you can throw that sour BS out the window. Yeah, the crosstown routes like the M79 saw some reductions...by like what...3-5 minutes? Big deal! The Lower East Side saw reductions of 10-20 minutes so I dont know what your bitching about in terms of that because service up there is STILL more frequent... Yeah, but it should be though... You can't sit here and tell me that a route like the M79 can compare to the M22 in terms of ridership and both of those routes are more like crosstown routes. And yeah those cuts are a big deal because the line was already crowded. That's like cutting and service by a few minutes and saying it isn't a big deal when that couldn't be any further from the truth. Why don't we pull out the numbers and look at ridership on lines like the M79 vs the M22 and the M9 and such. As for the M30, a lot of that was due to bunching problems. Buses tend to bunch quite a bit on 57th street, esp. the M57. Aside from that the M30 didn't run 24/7 anyway, so of course it wouldn't be that well utilized. And I'm sorry the M22 does not carry all of that well and neither does the M21 for that matter. I see plenty of EMPTY M22s Downtown there, so I don't buy it that the M22 gets such great ridership. I will however give you the M103, as that does carry well along with the M101, M102 and M14A/D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted October 4, 2011 Share #74 Posted October 4, 2011 1) Yeah, but my point was if you could afford the LIRR, you would use it naturally so how can you say that it's a "choice"? Everyone values their time, including you, and those who are willing to pay more for it don't see it as a "choice". That's time that they have with their family or to do whatever with. 2) The M5 carries somewhat, but it thins out past say Houston St, much like the M6 did. The subway in that area is a much quicker alternative and I know from experience. 3) Yeah, but it should be though... You can't sit here and tell me that a route like the M79 can compare to the M22 in terms of ridership and both of those routes are more like crosstown routes. And yeah those cuts are a big deal because the line was already crowded. That's like cutting and service by a few minutes and saying it isn't a big deal when that couldn't be any further from the truth. Why don't we pull out the numbers and look at ridership on lines like the M79 vs the M22 and the M9 and such. As for the M30, a lot of that was due to bunching problems. Buses tend to bunch quite a bit on 57th street, esp. the M57. Aside from that the M30 didn't run 24/7 anyway, so of course it wouldn't be that well utilized. And I'm sorry the M22 does not carry all of that well and neither does the M21 for that matter. I see plenty of EMPTY M22s Downtown there, so I don't buy it that the M22 gets such great ridership. I will however give you the M103, as that does carry well along with the M101, M102 and M14A/D. 1) But the thing is how much more time is the new commute? If it's just a few more minutes, it's not worth it for the MTA to run a whole new service for you. But since it was a more comfortable alternative and did see decent ridership, like I said, the X90 should've kept some of its service. 2) Well, the subway is always a faster alternative than the local bus if you're traveling over any significant distance, and the local bus is always faster if you're not traveling that far. Of course, the problem is that sometimes there are gaps in service on the subway. There were times when I've waited close to 20 minutes for an train to stop at 8th Street. But the same can be said for buses. 3) I could've sworn I saw you ask for stats. :confused: Anyway, I have my handy dandy service reductions booklet right here, and the ridership and cost is as follows (weekday/weekend) M9: 5,960/5,940 $1.75/$1.91 M14: 38,660/41,820 $1.03/$1.14 M21: 2,000/1,410 $2.84/$5.32 M22: 4,310/3,250 $2.27/$3.39 M30: 1,220 $3.32 (No weekend service) M31: 12,260/10,920 $1.39/$1.57 M57: 8,630/8,170 $1.32/$1.70 M79: 19,740/18,820 $0.86/$0.96 So you're right that the UES routes are more efficient than the LES routes, and the stats prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted October 4, 2011 Share #75 Posted October 4, 2011 There are alot of days I prefer to take the M5 Limited home than be packed onto the . And don't say it's because I'm a busfanner because I get on @ 42nd/6th and alot of the same people who board there don't get off until the Heights. Just like when I'm coming home from Jersey in the PMs, I'll take the 124/129 from Secaucus Jct rather than the train. For some reason I prefer arriving back at the PABT rather than a crowded Penn Station. I don't take the 104 uptown unless there is one pulling up right when I'm walking out of the PABT. My complaint with the 104 is that there is an easy fix to the problem and the is turning a blind eye to it. And Like Cait said, you really don't know what your talking about.....the reason they have buses that parallel the , and is because of the massive amounts of people who are traveling between uptown and midtown/downtown on a daily basis. If you think you can pack everybody on the subway you are more out of touch with reality than I thought you were, I actually know that fact broadway is a very lively corridor with many things to do similar to lexington as a result subway service is not enough BUT don't complain if the bus is slow cause if you want speed you will be on the subway anyway. Manhattan buses are almost always slow so it should definately be no surprise that M104 isn't reliable or quick at all. Again if you want speed you M104 should be the last thing on your mind. But M104 gets ridership beacause broadway is such a dense corridor that much I know but there should be no complaints as those problems are too easy to avoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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