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Listen To These Sick Occupy Wall Street Protesters

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Hat tip to Weasel Zippers and National Review:

 

These people are detestable. There is nothing else I can say.

 

When you look for evidence to support a pre-held opinion, you will only reinforce your own stup...er, umm, ideas...in your own head.

 

There are many examples of fringe behavior on the right that is anti-black, anti-poor, anti-working class, and plutocratic. So what? There is a racist element in the Tea Party too, but not one that should define it as a movement and prevent discussing the issues that they, or any other movement in America brings up INTELLIGENTLY.

 

The problem is when you allow these uncommonly held, fringe beliefs to dictate the course of dialog in a way that you cannot DISCUSS THE ISSUES INTELLIGENTLY.

 

Belittling the opposition by using its redheaded stepchild members as symbols of the movement is one of the last recourses of someone who has lost the argument.

 

Of course I'm sure that went right over your head.

 

How about this instead:

IN THE FOOTBALL GAME OF LIFE, THERE ARE NO WINNERS WHEN THE TWO TEAMS PLAY...JUST THE PAYING FANS IN THE SEATS, AND THE OWNERS LAUGHING THEIR WAY TO THE BANK WITH YOUR MONEY

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Also here is a very good comment I read today in a response to an article about the movement. It actually said a lot of things I say on here, but it said it in a much more organized and concise way than I could have. It sums up what all of this is about:

 

I support this movement. In spite of their somewhat conflicting and not-quite-coherent manifesto, I think that there is a central message that needs to be conveyed. For the last several decades, and to a greatest extent over the last three years, the American way of life has been in decline.

 

– Our real unemployment rate remains over 15%. Our corporations have returned to their pre-2008 profit levels, but with far fewer employees on payroll. They have achieved this through a combination of outsourcing, which is no longer confined to blue-collar manufacturing, but which is affecting white-collar departments like IT and accounting, as well as productivity increases, which to a large degree depend on employees working longer hours for the same pay. How many of you know people who work 10-12 hour days, who take their work home with them, and who aren’t paid for their overtime hours? How many of you know people who are doing the work that 2-3 people used to do? How many of you know people who work at companies that really should hire more people, but won’t because they know their overworked employees are just happy to have a job right now?

 

– More and more college graduates are taking unpaid internships that violate the Fair Labor Standards Act and don’t lead to full-time positions at their conclusion.

 

– Healthcare remains out of reach for 16% of the population. Premiums are soaring, deductibles are increasing, and the provisions of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act that might mitigate some of the damage are years away from being implemented, if the whole act isn’t repealed first.

 

– Education has become so expensive that a college degree might not even be a net gain for many young people. The entry-level jobs that used to be available for college graduates of any major are disappearing or being converted into unpaid internships. Only science and engineering graduates have any real certainty that they’ll be able to find decent jobs after college.

 

– Millions of homes are being foreclosed on. Some of these homeowners were irresponsible, to be sure. But many more were making their payments before their interest rates increased. Many were doing fine until a member of the household lost a job. Our government was willing to spend billions bailing out failed financial institutions, but investors are throwing a fit at the idea of allowing judges to lower a family’s mortgage payments to a sustainable level, and our politicians are listening to them.

 

Americans have been told that this is the new normal. That globalization means that we all have to sacrifice. And yet through all this, there is one group of people who haven’t sacrificed anything. In fact, their standard of living has risen over the past few years. These are the top 1%. But people are increasingly finding this arrangement unacceptable. If we all have to sacrifice, shouldn’t the people who already have the most make the biggest sacrifices? Shouldn’t a profitable company be willing to take a lower profit margin before it slashes payrolls? Shouldn’t a CEO decrease his own salary or bonus before he or she implements layoffs?

 

The social contract in America is broken. It used to be “work hard and you’ll be able to support a family.” Now it’s “take what we give you, and be happy about it.” Many politicians have convinced their constituents to support policies and economic ways of thinking that run directly against their own interests. They’ve indoctrinated them with a Randian philosophy that states that everything we have comes from our wealthy benefactors who create jobs, invent new products, and make our way of life possible. They dub the wealthiest Americans “producers” and the rest of us “moochers”, failing to acknowledge that every working American is a producer, and that there are millions more who would love nothing more than to be working and producing, but cannot because of the economic crisis caused largely by our financial industry. They fail to acknowledge that a social contract that excessively rewards the wealthy for investment and job creation only works if jobs are created and investments are made. If this isn’t happening, then clearly it’s time to re-evaulate the way we run our society.

 

Many of our politicians have turned the bottom 99% against each other. Look no further than the way they refer to our social programs as “entitlements”, conjuring up the image of a spoiled child demanding something he doesn’t deserve. Look at how they’ve attacked the very concepts of organized labor and collective bargaining, which were central to improving working conditions in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. They’ve dubbed our struggle for a greater share of the rewards of our societal production as “class warfare”.

 

They insist that a deficit of over $1 trillion can only be balanced by cuts to our social programs and to our infrastructure and education spending. They’ve proven themselves willing to risk our country’s default to prevent any tax increase on the only Americans who haven’t had to make sacrifices in this time of struggle. They seem oblivious to our declining social mobility, to our lowered standard of living for all but the wealthiest, to our banana republic levels of inequality, and to the diminishing opportunities that young Americans can look forward to. They effectively tell us that the only way we can get back to the American economic reality that our parents grew up with is to make the rich richer, to abandon our ideas about protecting the environment and our workers, and to allow mega-corporations free rein to engage in any anti-consumer, anti-employee practices they so choose.

 

The voices of the people are being drowned out. One of the most popular aspects of Obama’s healthcare reform was the public option. It was bargained away to prevent healthcare corporations from running an ad campagin against the whole thing. One of Bush’s accomplishments, Medicare Part D, contained a clause prohibiting the federal government from negotiating bulk discounts with pharmaceutical companies. The Senator who pushed that clause through was given a 7-figure job with the pharmaceutical industry a year later. A majority of Americans would rather increase the top tax rate than cut Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security benefits, but their voices aren’t being heard.

 

This protest is about putting a stop to that. It’s about recognizing that our country is driven by the everyday people who work hard expecting nothing more than a decent standard of living for themselves and their children. It’s about recognizing that the top 1% would have nothing without the rest of society, and that if sacrifices are to be made, then they should be made by all, and not only by those with the least to give. Most of all, it’s about demanding that our politicians be accountable to all of the people, not just to their campaign donors, and that they put the interests of the working class above the interests of their political parties.

 

Everyone of you should care about this movement because it directly affects you! Everyone of you that has paid the hundreds of dollars in increases year after year in your tuition while facing constant threat from yearly budget cuts that want to slash away at your financial aid rewards. Everyone of you that pays the constant rise in transportation costs, housing, and food which all stems from inflation due to the direct manipulation of monetary funds and policies of Wall Street. But let me ask you something, when was the last time your wages have gone up to compensate for this inflation?

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Wouldn't it make sense for the Wall St occupiers and those who formed the original Tea Party to find some common ground and work together? It seems that many politicians and commentators fear that combination most of all. I've watched them denigrate the little people on the right and the left. As far as I can see both movements have legitimate grievances on the future direction of America yet it seems that the media and major party leaders are willing to do anything to highlight the excesses of the fringe element of both sides. I say screw the leaders of BOTH major parties if they continue to bicker about whom to blame for the country's predicament. This is beginning to look like Italy or Germany last century when Mussolini and Hitler took over.If one would take the previous post to it's logical extreme we're on the path to the nobility and servitude days if things don't change. The little people of either party are the ones suffering right now. People are in debt because of housing, health care, education and they need work NOW. Full time, support the family, pay down debt work. Not part time, hope to stay afloat, or internship type BS. Obama looks like something from " Mister Smith goes to Washington" these days. He proposes a jobs bill yet Congress decides to screw around with it. I say pass the bill, put people back to work if the congressional leaders want to be re-elected. If they don't... vote both parties leadership out for not doing their job. This isn't some idealogues contest where Fox or MSNBC, Democrat, or Republican are playing some game. It appears the independant Senator , Sanders, is the only straight shooter in the city.This is the real world and Americans of all political persuasions are fed up with the gamesmanship being played in DC. It's time for the real Americans to come together before those parties down in DC finish the job of screwing everybody. Carry on.

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The social contract in America is broken. It used to be “work hard and you’ll be able to support a family.” Now it’s “take what we give you, and be happy about it.” Many politicians have convinced their constituents to support policies and economic ways of thinking that run directly against their own interests. They’ve indoctrinated them with a Randian philosophy that states that everything we have comes from our wealthy benefactors who create jobs, invent new products, and make our way of life possible. They dub the wealthiest Americans “producers” and the rest of us “moochers”, failing to acknowledge that every working American is a producer, and that there are millions more who would love nothing more than to be working and producing, but cannot because of the economic crisis caused largely by our financial industry. They fail to acknowledge that a social contract that excessively rewards the wealthy for investment and job creation only works if jobs are created and investments are made. If this isn’t happening, then clearly it’s time to re-evaulate the way we run our society.

 

This is the truth. It's kinda saddening to see that the vast majority of people are still blind to the issues that are directly under their noses. I only hope that they can wake up and make this country what it once was again. We shouldn't even be in the Middle East, we have men and women out there getting hurt, disfigured and maybe not making it back home in one piece to see their families ever again.

 

And for what? We already did what we had to do. But no, we still fight... for nothing. No point. And they say these protests make no sense. We're the ones struggling just to make ends meet while the fat cats load their banks up in excess of 99 million-

 

IMG-20110630-00035.jpg

 

...And the middle class continues to carry a burden that we soon won't be able to support...

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Wouldn't it make sense for the Wall St occupiers and those who formed the original Tea Party to find some common ground and work together? It seems that many politicians and commentators fear that combination most of all. I've watched them denigrate the little people on the right and the left. As far as I can see both movements have legitimate grievances on the future direction of America yet it seems that the media and major party leaders are willing to do anything to highlight the excesses of the fringe element of both sides. I say screw the leaders of BOTH major parties if they continue to bicker about whom to blame for the country's predicament. This is beginning to look like Italy or Germany last century when Mussolini and Hitler took over.If one would take the previous post to it's logical extreme we're on the path to the nobility and servitude days if things don't change. The little people of either party are the ones suffering right now. People are in debt because of housing, health care, education and they need work NOW. Full time, support the family, pay down debt work. Not part time, hope to stay afloat, or internship type BS. Obama looks like something from " Mister Smith goes to Washington" these days. He proposes a jobs bill yet Congress decides to screw around with it. I say pass the bill, put people back to work if the congressional leaders want to be re-elected. If they don't... vote both parties leadership out for not doing their job. This isn't some idealogues contest where Fox or MSNBC, Democrat, or Republican are playing some game. It appears the independant Senator , Sanders, is the only straight shooter in the city.This is the real world and Americans of all political persuasions are fed up with the gamesmanship being played in DC. It's time for the real Americans to come together before those parties down in DC finish the job of screwing everybody. Carry on.

 

The problem is the politicians and the media. They prevent the people on both sides from ever coming together over these unifying issues by promoting heated debate about wedge issues (which are ultimately meaningless if people cannot make a living wage working a job that allows them sufficient time and resources to enjoy life). Wedge issues like gay marriage, climate change, gun rights, drug laws, and religion.

 

If you don't have the means to earn a decent living and enjoy your life, none of that matters. That's what ought to unify people, but many are simply content to just bicker over the stupid stuff while they continue to be robbed blind.

 

A consensus of Americans wants retribution against the banks and those who profited off the crisis.

 

A consensus of Americans wants higher taxes on the wealthy to reduce the deficit.

 

That's a start...it's time it became one.

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It would also be nice if these protesters took their anger out on DC. Wall St isn't the only group to blame, it's policies from the government via the bailouts that are to blame. You don't give companies blank checks to cover their losses and not be expected to return that money plus interest. Taxpayers are not banks to give out un-payable loans. Both Bush and Obama are to blame.

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Like Grand Concourse said, the bailouts were dumb and a waste of taxpayers' money. However, I do not support this radical and Anti-Capitalist movement.

 

history has shown that movements like these tend to install worse people in power than whoever was there before. For every Gandhi and Mandella, there's a Chavez, a Castro, a Mugabe, an Ayatollah, and I'm pretty sure whoever is taking over Libya and Egypt will wind up being worse than the guys before.

 

and it worries me a lot that there appears to be an anti-semetic movment to this protest, cuz we all know what happened in a certain European country when they decided to blame jewish people for their economic woes.

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Like Grand Concourse said, the bailouts were dumb and a waste of taxpayers' money. However, I do not support this radical and Anti-Capitalist movement.

 

It is not necessarily anti-capitalist.

 

A true capitalist society is a meritocracy where people earn according to their value to the society as a whole - meaning those who produce more, earn more. Those who produce less, earn less. Wealth is by and large (but not entirely) recaptured from generation to generation to prevent accumulation of wealth by stodgy "old money" families and forcing every generation to work for its own living.

 

However, it also has programs to help those most in need, because a true capitalist society is fair, and believes that while not everyone starts at the same point in life, everyone should have an equal opportunity to make the best of themselves should they choose to do so. This means social programs that help the unemployed, the working poor, and so on, to allow them to grow and prosper, and ultimately become more successful and more useful to society as a whole by ultimately producing more products of value in the economy.

 

Because workers are the backbone of this true capitalist economy, workers are paid well - because their executives know that without them, they have nothing except a blank slate full of ideas and no ways to implement them. Despite the relatively high wages for workers, executives still make more than workers, but live a comfortable life of luxury - never wanting for anything - and not a whole lot more extravagant than that.

 

When this true capitalist society is threatened from outside by slave labor and indentured servitude (China), it's benevolent, by the people, for the people government unilaterally enacts protective measures to prohibit the sale of cheaper, inferior goods to market to protect the American way of life - even when the American people would not choose to "buy American" given a choice. This true capitalist society regulates fairness in the marketplace by ensuring honest dealing and truth in advertising, and punishing offenders harshly, setting an example that chicanery in business will not be tolerated. Furthermore, it allows its appropriately regulated businesses to grow and prosper, and to fail and die.

 

And as we all know, that sounds nothing like today.

 

We have a government in bed with large corporations - the large corporations may as well be the state...sounds like Communism.

 

We have a government that oppresses the people and keeps for itself...sounds like Communism.

 

We have a government that interferes with the economy by picking winners and losers, largely based on politicians' personal preferences or employment histories...sounds like a planned economy.

 

We have a central bank that manipulates the value of the currency and destroys the wealth of the American people by reducing the real purchasing power of the American dollar that 99% of all Americans hold their savings in dollar denominated accounts or investments exclusively.

 

We have a banking lobby that bends the will of government to its own ends in spite of the voices of the people.

 

This movement is neither radical, nor anti-capitalist. There may be a few socialists in there - but frankly this fascist corporate dictatorship that we live in now could use a little more socialism to get back to the way that America used to be when it was a better, more healthy place.

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history has shown that movements like these tend to install worse people in power than whoever was there before. For every Gandhi and Mandella, there's a Chavez, a Castro, a Mugabe, an Ayatollah, and I'm pretty sure whoever is taking over Libya and Egypt will wind up being worse than the guys before.

 

and it worries me a lot that there appears to be an anti-semetic movment to this protest, cuz we all know what happened in a certain European country when they decided to blame jewish people for their economic woes.

 

This is fear mongering at its worst and nothing of the sort is actually going to happen. Wake up. When the Tea Party brought guns to Obama town hall meetings, did that mean a return to Jim Crow and lynchings???

 

It's entertaining how some here regard the crackdowns in Syria, Libya, and even Iran (following the elections) as overly violent and hostile - those poor brown people were just trying to have a voice in their government like Americans have! But when people get together to voice their opinions here and the powers that be attempt to silence them, it's because "those hippies deserved it, they need to stfu"

 

The people criticizing their ability to assemble in public and protest have no idea about the founding rights of America nor the principles this nation was built upon.

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well what do you think is the likely outcome of these protests? What I mentioned is the worst case scenario if things start getting really violent. Best case scenario, they pass a few bills to prevent the banks from doing this stuff again and raise taxes on the top earners and call it a day.

 

The last time we hit a rut like this we had a huge amount of public works projects to get people working again, but I don't see anyone in our government now with the vision and the plans to get anything like that done.

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well what do you think is the likely outcome of these protests? What I mentioned is the worst case scenario if things start getting really violent. Best case scenario, they pass a few bills to prevent the banks from doing this stuff again and raise taxes on the top earners and call it a day.

 

The last time we hit a rut like this we had a huge amount of public works projects to get people working again, but I don't see anyone in our government now with the vision and the plans to get anything like that done.

 

There is no good outcome. This is the stage where the people voice their opinions freely and generally peaceably. Government will either heed the calls and placate the will of the people (at least for now), or they will dismiss it and the next time calls for justice will not be so polite.

 

When America's financial house of cards collapses, that's when things will start to get wild. Washington and Wall Street seem to be determined to cause just that to occur, so soon it may be time to fasten our seatbelts.

 

Like everything else, it's a process...this isn't a comment on anyone involved for or against the protests.

 

-You don't mess with a person's money

-You don't mess with a person's home

-You don't mess with a person's spouse

 

Government and banks have done two of the three...it's only logical retribution will follow another collapse, and it won't just be "hippies in zucchini park". We are starting to see the already planted seeds of the double dip sprouting their first roots now.

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I wonder how many of those against this protest actually went out there to see it for themselves. I was out there last night and plan on stopping by in an hour or two to witness things personally. It's easy to voice such an angst opinion when you're simply watching it from your little tv sets. Those protesters while pushing their message are also enjoying themselves. They feel good about what they're doing.

 

Even if nothing good comes from it I'm actually kind of excited to see people my own age doing something more than walking around while texting on their blackberries, iphones and what have you. It means people are starting to pay attention. Our generation is up to bat and we're supposed to be leading the way for the next one.

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I avoided that area while getting to Brooklyn for the street fair. Instead of using the (J) to the (4), I stayed on the LIRR to Flatbush Avenue

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I wonder how many of those against this protest actually went out there to see it for themselves. I was out there last night and plan on stopping by in an hour or two to witness things personally. It's easy to voice such an angst opinion when you're simply watching it from your little tv sets. Those protesters while pushing their message are also enjoying themselves. They feel good about what they're doing.

 

Even if nothing good comes from it I'm actually kind of excited to see people my own age doing something more than walking around while texting on their blackberries, iphones and what have you. It means people are starting to pay attention. Our generation is up to bat and we're supposed to be leading the way for the next one.

 

Agreed

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It means people are starting to pay attention. Our generation is up to bat and we're supposed to be leading the way for the next one.

 

Hopefully we do better than the by and large ingrateful sellouts that came before us. Remember many of them were activists too, but they traded that in for corporate servitude and Florida vacations with their fanny packs and fat a$$es.

 

I'm painting with a broad brush here so I am generalizing while also speaking about no specific members of that demographic, if that makes sense...but there's a reason people criticize hippies and it's not what happened in the 60's/70's...it's what happened to them in the 80's when they sold out and became the political PTA.

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And all you railfans, if you want American-built subway trains again I suggest you hop on the bandwagon and call for REAL change!!

 

Instead of bitching about the equipment we have now...

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And all you railfans, if you want American-built subway trains again I suggest you hop on the bandwagon and call for REAL change!!

 

Instead of bitching about the equipment we have now...

 

they only complain cuz it doesnt have a front window they can look out of and rollsigns they can screw around with

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You shoulda gone to the Wednesday protest, it was huge. It's important to be out there before you criticize and it's an important protest. It's also one the media adores to mis-portray...

 

Yeah so I heard and read. I'm a little late to the party but I'm going to be trying to get out there a bit more. I refuse to let the media report to me on something I can easily go see for myself.

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they only complain cuz it doesnt have a front window they can look out of and rollsigns they can screw around with

 

LOL! I always thought those half-width cabs were cramped and tiny, those people need room too when operating trains, damnit

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I'm just glad to see that so many people are starting to open their eyes to what's happening in this country. It seems like Americans were unwilling or unable to see what was being done to them for a generation or more. It took the Tea Party (yes) and now the Wall St protesters to finally voice the complaints the average American feels toward our government and it's economic puppetmasters. I may not agree with the messages of the extreme left or right wings of either movement but it's good to see the average American throw off the shackle of being "sheeple" to the powers that be and finally start to take a stand against those who are harming them the most. Maybe then the people can really show the government what real " hope and change" is all about. Just my two cents. Carry on.

BTW to the OP. The responses to this thread are not what you were hoping for, are they? Well we're just Americans, voicing our opinions like the Bill of Rights and Constitution allow. Just like the protesters are doing.

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