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Guest Lance

68th Street Rehab (NIMBYism at its Finest)

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Guest lance25

And they've brought lawyers to defend their decision to block the renovations. And crap on the ADA requirements too.

 

MTA's $57M Elevator Plan Makes Enemies on East 69th Street - DNAinfo.com

 

I think this quote pretty much sums up the (MTA)'s reasoning behind their proposals.

 

"There is a problem that exists at that station and we are trying to solve it," Tendler said. "It’s not like somebody decided, let’s make the people on 69th street miserable for the next few years."

 

Outside of shutting down the station entirely to install the new elevators at 68 St, which would be a nightmare for everyone in the area, they have to build the new exits and, as has been stated before, 69th Street is the easiest location to do so. Moving the exits to 67th or 70th Streets means the project will take much longer than the three years they're anticipating since the platforms will have to be extended north or south depending on the street.

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And they've brought lawyers to defend their decision to block the renovations. And crap on the ADA requirements too.

 

MTA's $57M Elevator Plan Makes Enemies on East 69th Street - DNAinfo.com

 

I think this quote pretty much sums up the (MTA)'s reasoning behind their proposals.

 

 

 

Outside of shutting down the station entirely to install the new elevators at 68 St, which would be a nightmare for everyone in the area, they have to build the new exits and, as has been stated before, 69th Street is the easiest location to do so. Moving the exits to 67th or 70th Streets means the project will take much longer than the three years they're anticipating since the platforms will have to be extended north or south depending on the street.

Better yet why don't we just knock them down..they have their other 4 summer mansions out in the Hamptons I don't think it shouldn't be too much of an inconvenience for them..

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"There is a problem that exists at that station and we are trying to solve it," Tendler said. "It’s not like somebody decided, let’s make the people on 69th street miserable for the next few years."

 

Really?? Well guess what (MTA)? You're doing just that and I applaud them for taking a stand against these bullies. It's their neighborhood and they have every right to voice their concerns. The (MTA) can give two rats' @ss about the problems they create in the community, as shown with the problems with the SAS and clearly the residents have had enough. :cool: :tup: Service cuts, service cuts, service cuts, fare increases, dirtier buses and subways and then they have to come into our communities and destroy what little control we have over those as well. That's how I feel about it. :mad:

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Ha, all that will happen is delayed/prolonged construction and thinner wallets of complainants. Good luck

 

Yeah because the (MTA) is used to having its way. I hope they lose. It's about time that the communities have some say so without the (MTA) just doing as they please as if they have no one to answer to. :mad:

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Guest lance25

The funny thing is, they're actually trying to improve things at 68 St. You can't complain about how things suck then go about complaining when they try to fix things.

 

You said yourself that you support making the station ADA accessible. If they don't add the new egresses, the station will have to be shut down because of the size of the mezzanine. That would force passengers onto the M101/2/3 buses and to the already-overcrowded 59 St/Lexington Av and 77 St stations. That's not a good idea. An even worse one would be to scrap the renovations entirely. Not only that, but it's also a disservice to the 30,000 or so passengers who use that station daily.

 

At the risk of stepping on anyone's toes here, I feel that in this case, the majority should overrule the minority, especially when it's such a vast minority.

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Yeah because the (MTA) is used to having its way. I hope they lose. It's about time that the communities have some say so without the (MTA) just doing as they please as if they have no one to answer to. :mad:

 

TA to lose, you wish ;), not with the accusations claimants have. I can see them (TA) being ordered to speed things up a notch, because three years for such trivial rehab is bit too much imo.

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TA to lose, you wish ;), not with the accusations claimants have. I can see them (TA) being ordered to speed things up a notch, because three years for such trivial rehab is bit too much imo.

 

It's still hilarious how they're doing nothing with SI while BusTime for the B63 only took a few months to get rolling. Their fault for rejecting any sort of change, much like these stupid friggin' NIMBYs.

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once again, the (MTA) could take the Robert Moses approach at it...build it and f*** whoever complains about it. I guarantee you the same people complaining about it now will be the first ones using it when it opens

 

Just my 2 cents, carry on...

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The funny thing is, they're actually trying to improve things at 68 St. You can't complain about how things suck then go about complaining when they try to fix things.

 

You said yourself that you support making the station ADA accessible. If they don't add the new egresses, the station will have to be shut down because of the size of the mezzanine. That would force passengers onto the M101/2/3 buses and to the already-overcrowded 59 St/Lexington Av and 77 St stations. That's not a good idea. An even worse one would be to scrap the renovations entirely. Not only that, but it's also a disservice to the 30,000 or so passengers who use that station daily.

 

At the risk of stepping on anyone's toes here, I feel that in this case, the majority should overrule the minority, especially when it's such a vast minority.

 

I just find it a bit "odd" that they're so concerned about ADA accessibility at this one station when they've built or rehabbed several new stations and did not bother with any ADA accessibility. Now suddenly they care so much about the disabled? That's what it makes their story hard to believe.

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"There is a problem that exists at that station and we are trying to solve it," Tendler said. "It’s not like somebody decided, let’s make the people on 69th street miserable for the next few years."

 

Really?? Well guess what (MTA)? You're doing just that and I applaud them for taking a stand against these bullies. It's their neighborhood and they have every right to voice their concerns.

 

It's not like the MTA is going to rip open the whole street just to add one elevator and a set of stairs. Yeah, it's there neighborhood, so they have a right to voice their concerns- but that doesn't mean that they can deny something that would benefit more people then it would harm-it was brought up before, in this very same thread. The (MTA) might be bully at times-they're no saint-but at least they're giving the community a head's up, something that they rarely do.

 

The (MTA) can give two rats' @ss about the problems they create in the community, as shown with the problems with the SAS and clearly the residents have had enough. :cool: :tup: Service cuts, service cuts, service cuts, fare increases, dirtier buses and subways and then they have to come into our communities and destroy what little control we have over those as well. That's how I feel about it. :mad:

 

If the (MTA) didn't give a rat's @ss about the neighborhood, then they would've ripped open Second Ave, said "screw you" to the residents and businesses there, and building SAS the early 1900's method- cut and cover, with dynamite blasting, 24/7. Instead, they at least attempting to help the businesses there, by beautifying the construction sites and promoting Second Ave. (which, admittedly, they're doing a lousy job at doing so), and halting blasting at 7 PM, as well stopping construction when the community complained of dust and other particles flowing from the site to their homes and businesses, and taking steps to remdy the probleem. Heck, if they didn't care about the East Side at all, they wouldn't be building SAS in the first place-because those are people to whom it's intended to benefit in the first place. About the Service Cuts- well, I'd like to see run a public transit authority with 468 stations+7 million daily riders to take care of, coupled with declining revenues and state aid, and a mountain of debt. And add an ignorant state government who refuses to help the MTA at all, as well as an ignorant population who doesn't appreciate the services the (MTA) provides, and expects things to happen out of thin air.

 

I just find it a bit "odd" that they're so concerned about ADA accessibility at this one station when they've built or rehabbed several new stations and did not bother with any ADA accessibility. Now suddenly they care so much about the disabled? That's what it makes their story hard to believe.

 

68th St-Hunter College is in close proximity 3 major hospitals- New York Presbyterian-Weill Cornell, Memorial Solan-Kettering Cancer Center, and the Hospital for Special Surgery- and many of the patients and vistors to these hospitals don't live in the area, and as such, need to take the subway to get there-and some of them especially those who go to HSS, are disabled and would greatly benefit from an elevator there. Not to mention that it's right in front of Hunter College as well. So yeah, 68th St does need ADA accessibility more urgently then some of the other stations the (MTA) has been renovating for some time now.

Edited by IntExp
?

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It's not like the MTA is going to rip open the whole street just to add one elevator and a set of stairs. Yeah, it's there neighborhood, so they have a right to voice their concerns- but that doesn't mean that they can deny something that would benefit more people then it would harm-it was brought up before, in this very same thread. The (MTA) might be bully at times-they're no saint-but at least they're giving the community a head's up, something that they rarely do.

 

Their track record says otherwise though. They can't be trusted and that's one reason the community is skeptical.

 

 

If the (MTA) didn't give a rat's @ss about the neighborhood, then they would've ripped open Second Ave, said "screw you" to the residents and businesses there, and building SAS the early 1900's method- cut and cover, with dynamite blasting, 24/7. Instead, they at least attempting to help the businesses there, by beautifying the construction sites and promoting Second Ave. (which, admittedly, they're doing a lousy job at doing so), and halting blasting at 7 PM, as well stopping construction when the community complained of dust and other particles flowing from the site to their homes and businesses, and taking steps to remdy the probleem. Heck, if they didn't care about the East Side at all, they wouldn't be building SAS in the first place-because those are people to whom it's intended to benefit in the first place. About the Service Cuts- well, I'd like to see run a public transit authority with 468 stations+7 million daily riders to take care of, coupled with declining revenues and state aid, and a mountain of debt. And add an ignorant state government who refuses to help the MTA at all, as well as an ignorant population who doesn't appreciate the services the (MTA) provides, and expects things to happen out of thin air.

 

It's not arrogant... It's distrust. They're earned that title from the destruction that they caused to other neighborhoods.

 

 

68th St-Hunter College is in close proximity 3 major hospitals- New York Presbyterian-Weill Cornell, Memorial Solan-Kettering Cancer Center, and the Hospital for Special Surgery- and many of the patients and vistors to these hospitals don't live in the area, and as such, need to take the subway to get there-and some of them especially those who go to HSS, are disabled and would greatly benefit from an elevator there. Not to mention that it's right in front of Hunter College as well. So yeah, 68th St does need ADA accessibility more urgently then some of the other stations the (MTA) has been renovating for some time now.

 

True, but still. If you're going to renovate new stations that probably won't be re-done for at least 20 - 30 years, it makes no sense not to add ADA accessibility to those stations.

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You think it's some sorta conspiracy?

 

Here's the story: they're trying to fix something.

 

Yeah and destroy a neighborhood in the process. That's the real story here.

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Hey it's their neighborhood and who is the (MTA) to just march in and throw entrances where ever? You call it elitist all you want, but I sure as hell would fight to keep the character and safeness of my neighborhood if I felt that building certain things would cause more crime and such to come into the neighborhood. Crime is certainly on the rise in the city and women are being assaulted mainly coming from the subways esp. of late, so they have a legitimate gripe.

 

I doubt any of these board members on the (MTA) live on the Upper East Side, so what do they care about the situation? Typical and disturbing. And for all you who are in favor of this let the (MTA) come to your neighborhood and ram entrances all about. It's always OK when it isn't your neighborhood right? Friggin' hypocrites.

 

I always hear that Liberals are like that, like they always say, you shouldn't smoke or drive a car, as it's polluting the air, yet Park Slope is one of the hardest places in the city to drive or park & they are constantly smoking there.

 

Oh I love Liberals!

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I always hear that Liberals are like that, like they always say, you shouldn't smoke or drive a car, as it's polluting the air, yet Park Slope is one of the hardest places in the city to drive or park & they are constantly smoking there.

 

Oh I love Liberals!

 

what the f*** does any of that have to do with a subway entrance that the majority of people living in a neighborhood support???

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Is it really a good idea to only build transit facilities ONLY in places that offer the least amount of objections? This is a kind of "heckler's veto" - never really a good basis to decide public policy.

 

Name a community or a city block where the residents or property or business owners WILL NOT COMPLAIN about something? In the entire history of city planning - folks have always come up with some very "interesting reasons" for not "wanting" stuff - some of the appeals can be insightful all of the way to "these folks are out of their damn minds", including some appeals containing elements of classism, racism, environmental-snobbism, among other elements, etc.

 

On the other side do "we" really want some folks on a small city block to determine (or ruin) the kinds of transit facilities that would really help a lot of people.

 

The folks who get off at that station may not "live" in the area, but they certainly shop, go to school, work, entertain themselves within that area or just pass through that area. These people have interests in continuing to do so - how are their voices represented in this battle.

 

Just as a historical note - remember that the Queens Super-Express route was killed in the 1980's due to the actions of local Queens and Long Island politicians and local Queens NIMBY folk - who lived along an abandoned LIRR railroad that would have been re-activated for the express route tracks. Those folks on that small tract somehow got to determine the transit alternatives for thousands of Queens subway riders. Sometimes folks like Robert Moses and other master planners - have a point about the PUBLIC INTEREST, and the needs of the majority. Especially in cases where the majority can be accommodated without a huge impact on the smaller number of local residents, or stake-holders.

 

It is just a damn elevator for pete's sake - not some overbearing highway or prison, polluting factory, etc.

 

Mike

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what the f*** does any of that have to do with a subway entrance that the majority of people living in a neighborhood support???

 

I was just adding to VG8's comment, on what kind of people the (MTA) (& we) always have to deal with.

 

I'm very sorry to bring politics into this, but it's true, Liberals are always complaining. I don't hate them, but they are always complaining. Like by the (F) line, when they wanted the newest cars, with the best air conditioning, & they want express service. It's always these neighborhoods that are complaining!

 

Back to this story. They are complaining about the fact that, it's going to cause crime, but look how many of them moved into Harlem & helped, (along with lots of the older residents) clean up crime. So to here, they can prevent it.

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Is it really a good idea to only build transit facilities ONLY in places that offer the least amount of objections? This is a kind of "heckler's veto" - never really a good basis to decide public policy.

 

Name a community or a city block where the residents or property or business owners WILL NOT COMPLAIN about something? In the entire history of city planning - folks have always come up with some very "interesting reasons" for not "wanting" stuff - some of the appeals can be insightful all of the way to "these folks are out of their damn minds", including some appeals containing elements of classism, racism, environmental-snobbism, among other elements, etc.

 

On the other side do "we" really want some folks on a small city block to determine (or ruin) the kinds of transit facilities that would really help a lot of people.

 

The folks who get off at that station may not "live" in the area, but they certainly shop, go to school, work, entertain themselves within that area or just pass through that area. These people have interests in continuing to do so - how are their voices represented in this battle.

 

Just as a historical note - remember that the Queens Super-Express route was killed in the 1980's due to the actions of local Queens and Long Island politicians and local Queens NIMBY folk - who lived along an abandoned LIRR railroad that would have been re-activated for the express route tracks. Those folks on that small tract somehow got to determine the transit alternatives for thousands of Queens subway riders. Sometimes folks like Robert Moses and other master planners - have a point about the PUBLIC INTEREST, and the needs of the majority. Especially in cases where the majority can be accommodated without a huge impact on the smaller number of local residents, or stake-holders.

 

It is just a damn elevator for pete's sake - not some overbearing highway or prison, polluting factory, etc.

 

Mike

 

 

Okay, so let the (MTA) set up shop right by your house and drill and destroy your block and then see how you feel about it. It's very easy for folks to say it's not big deal when it's not happening to them. Historically, the (MTA) is unorganized in the majority of the projects that they do and there is no question that the lack of trust by these folks stems from that. They are simply trying to protect their neighborhood and they have every right to do so. Just because they're the "minority" in this case, doesn't mean that their voice shouldn't be heard or discounted because others want to ram this project down their throats for the next several years or who knows how long. The fact of the matter is they'll be the ones suffering through all of this for years on end for the benefit of others, so yeah it's no big deal... The noise, the dust, the filth, and then whenever it is finally done, after a gazillon delays, they get the benefit of more noise and potential crime. Nothing great about that at all. So in sum, they are getting the short end of the stick in the deal all around, so yeah, I don't blame them for fighting. I would do the same thing. It's all about protecting what's yours because if you don't no one else is going to give a damn because at the end of the day it's not their problem, but the residents living there who will have to deal with this.

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Yeah, because the sidewalks and the bedrock under their closet-sized, $3900/month apartments are theirs, or at least their self-righteous, pompous, I-don't-like-anyone-else asses think so.

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Yeah, because the sidewalks and the bedrock under their closet-sized, $3900/month apartments are theirs, or at least their self-righteous, pompous, I-don't-like-anyone-else asses think so.

 

Why would I expect any other answer from you than the usual bash the affluent? Meanwhile it's these affluent folks' taxes that went to LIB to support bus service to Long Island, which you benefited from... I don't see you commenting on that though... :)

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Well, they "did it" for 38 years and you're the only one complaining about it. By your reasoning, I should be complaining about Long Island money "going" over to NYC... you really think it's regionally locked? Please, LI would have to fend for itself over the LIRR alone, never mind LIB when it was called so.

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Okay, so let the (MTA) set up shop right by your house and drill and destroy your block and then see how you feel about it. It's very easy for folks to say it's not big deal when it's not happening to them. Historically, the (MTA) is unorganized in the majority of the projects that they do and there is no question that the lack of trust by these folks stems from that. They are simply trying to protect their neighborhood and they have every right to do so...

 

Now that you bring it up, how is this project a negative impact on you yourself? Like Mike said, its not like they're plowing a highway through the neighborhood or building a prison in their backyards...its just a set of staircases and an elevator on the corner that's gonna benefit thousands

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