Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 9, 2012 Share #476 Posted January 9, 2012 Well, they "did it" for 38 years and you're the only one complaining about it. By your reasoning, I should be complaining about Long Island money "going" over to NYC... you really think it's regionally locked? Please, LI would have to fend for itself over the LIRR alone, never mind LIB when it was called so. I'm pointing it out as I have before, and no I'm not the only one complaining. Others have complained about it on this site before and outside of this forum, there are plenty of New Yorkers that don't care for it one bit. Here we have the transit enthusiasts, so some of them just think "Oh Long Island Bus" is so cool because they love transit and the and such, but they haven't a clue about taxes and other important matters that do matter to the average Joe who cares about where their tax dollars go. Hell, that whole NICE thing should've happened a long time ago, but to relate this back to the subject at hand, the point is that it's funny that you're so judgmental of these folks when your transit system (which shouldn't have) benefited from their tax dollars and mine and millions of other New Yorkers. So you hate them so much, but you have no problem using their tax dollars to benefit you. Typical... Now that you bring it up, how is this project a negative impact on you yourself? Like Mike said, its not like they're plowing a highway through the neighborhood or building a prison in their backyards...its just a set of staircases and an elevator on the corner that's gonna benefit thousands I don't have to live on the Upper East Side to have an opinion on the matter because I used to frequent the area often enough to consider myself a resident. As far as I go, the mess that they've caused up there has stopped me from patronizing a lot of specialty stores that I used to shop at on the Upper East Side and Yorkville. There was a nice Italian restaurant that I used to frequent on 2nd and 82nd that closed shop after that whole SAS debacle and a few other places that I haven't been to in years over on 1st and 70s because of the mess up there. :mad: There is no such thing as a "simple" project with the . Perfect example is this whole Bus Time that's supposed to be rolled out here on Staten Island. The project has been delayed and delayed and delayed. Now they've got brochures out talking about how the program will be rolled out in January 2012. Well January is here and time is ticking... No program out as of yet, so we'll see, but I wouldn't be surprised if the project was delayed yet again. If this project goes through, the residents should demand that the for once be held accountable to a time schedule and strict work hours so that we don't have a repeat of some of the disorganization with the SAS. And yes, I know, that's a much more complex project, but the point is any simple project can become a mess with a lack of organization and if it's not them doing this job, then they need to keep a better eye on the subcontractor to ensure that the residents are disrupted as little as possible. As someone who used to work in the construction industry with a GC (General Contractor), the is extremely disorganized overall when it comes to construction projects. If we screwed up as much as they do, we would've been out of business back in the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted January 10, 2012 Share #477 Posted January 10, 2012 I was just adding to VG8's comment, on what kind of people the (& we) always have to deal with. And you know this because of what? This has nothing to do with liberal vs. conservative politics so don't make it into that. The only ones complaining in this thread are you and the NIMBYs being discussed as the actual on topic portion of the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Kabak Posted January 10, 2012 Share #478 Posted January 10, 2012 There is no such thing as a "simple" project with the . Perfect example is this whole Bus Time that's supposed to be rolled out here on Staten Island. The project has been delayed and delayed and delayed. Now they've got brochures out talking about how the program will be rolled out in January 2012. Well January is here and time is ticking... No program out as of yet, so we'll see, but I wouldn't be surprised if the project was delayed yet again. BusTime SI is debuting tomorrow on Staten Island. It hasn't really been "delayed and delayed." I think they missed an internal deadline by 11 days. Considering the complexity of the project and the timeframe (September-now), that's not too bad for the MTA, I'd say. I haven't visited that site in a while, but… 69th St. NIMBYs rear their ugly heads again :: Second Ave. Sagas Come and visit more often, CenSin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 10, 2012 Share #479 Posted January 10, 2012 BusTime SI is debuting tomorrow on Staten Island. It hasn't really been "delayed and delayed." I think they missed an internal deadline by 11 days. Considering the complexity of the project and the timeframe (September-now), that's not too bad for the MTA, I'd say. Actually it was longer than that if I recall correctly. It was supposed to be debuting in December. We can also of course exclude all of the times that they've tried to get this bus tracking thing up and running and had to ditch it. They've been working on this for years, so yeah, technically it has been delayed and delayed. As you can see from the link below, they have indeed been working on a tracking system that has been clearly delayed for years... http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2007/10/the_sweet_16s_have_gone.html Here's a part of the article from 2007, almost 5 years ago... "Melissa Farley, government and community liaison for the MTA, said improvements are on the horizon, including bus-board global positioning technology, which will be tested at Staten Island depots next, after an initial test in Manhattan. The system will help dispatchers better keep track of which buses are where along the route." Now getting back to the topic at hand, if they're 5 years behind on a tracking system, why in the world should these residents trust anything that the is proposing about a so called "simple ADA accessibility project"? The whole thing is laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Vandelay Posted January 14, 2012 Share #480 Posted January 14, 2012 The block I live on is rather upscale. So are the blocks around it, but not as upscale as mine, and certainly haven't been as long as mine. The difference from my perspective? We have a subway entrance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Up Front Posted January 15, 2012 Share #481 Posted January 15, 2012 And they automatically assume that subway entrances will taint their shit. People complain when the doesn't provide enough/any service to them but when the says they need to build something to improve service the butthurt is incomprehensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 15, 2012 Share #482 Posted January 15, 2012 And they automatically assume that subway entrances will taint their shit. People complain when the doesn't provide enough/any service to them but when the says they need to build something to improve service the butthurt is incomprehensible. That's because particularly of late projects dealing with the have been botched or delayed. I don't blame them for being skeptical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmallParkShuttle Posted January 16, 2012 Share #483 Posted January 16, 2012 As far as these particular residents' voices being heard: we hear them, and the majority of us think their points and suggestions are pretty much thoughtless and carry little weight. Honestly, the best and cheapest option was chosen and presented. From an engineering standpoint, it would have been unethical to try to choose and present anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 16, 2012 Share #484 Posted January 16, 2012 As far as these particular residents' voices being heard: we hear them, and the majority of us think their points and suggestions are pretty much thoughtless and carry little weight. Honestly, the best and cheapest option was chosen and presented. From an engineering standpoint, it would have been unethical to try to choose and present anything else. Which is exactly why they got lawyers :tup:, since their voices will be ignored otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmallParkShuttle Posted January 16, 2012 Share #485 Posted January 16, 2012 Which is exactly why they got lawyers :tup:, since their voices will be ignored otherwise. They got lawyers because they knew that court is the only place people would be forced to listen to the things we've already heard them say and written off. With all the things people have gotten away with at court it doesn't surprise me that they'd take that route. It's also a way to buy time. This move alone could delay the rehab greatly. I only hope that the court hasn't been bought by these guys. But seriously, being "real estate saavy" as we believe they are, living a block away from the busiest subway station in the neighborhood that has only one exit and has been over-crowded for decades with the upgrading the system, they didn't see this coming? If you don't want New York to come to your doorstep, don't live in New York. They clearly have the money to live elsewhere. (sarcasm) Maybe they don't want to fall too far behind their neighbors on the West end of their block (Park Ave), they might be seen as one of "those" people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 16, 2012 Share #486 Posted January 16, 2012 They got lawyers because they knew that court is the only place people would be forced to listen to the things we've already heard them say and written off. With all the things people have gotten away with at court it doesn't surprise me that they'd take that route. It's also a way to buy time. This move alone could delay the rehab greatly. I only hope that the court hasn't been bought by these guys. But seriously, being "real estate saavy" as we believe they are, living a block away from the busiest subway station in the neighborhood that has only one exit and has been over-crowded for decades with the upgrading the system, they didn't see this coming? If you don't want New York to come to your doorstep, don't live in New York. They clearly have the money to live elsewhere. (sarcasm) Maybe they don't want to fall too far behind their neighbors on the West end of their block (Park Ave), they might be seen as one of "those" people! lol... In any event they are doing everything they can to protect their neighborhood and you're right. This thing may get dragged out in court for years, but what I'm happy about is that the can't bully the little guy for once. :tup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Up Front Posted January 16, 2012 Share #487 Posted January 16, 2012 And then the can "bully" you by making the bus operator of your X3404039 tomorrow completely flag you and the nine other people at your stop. :tup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6 Lexington Ave Posted January 16, 2012 Share #488 Posted January 16, 2012 lol... In any event they are doing everything they can to protect their neighborhood and you're right. This thing may get dragged out in court for years, but what I'm happy about is that the can't bully the little guy for once. :tup: Oh the poor little guy on the Upper East side... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 16, 2012 Share #489 Posted January 16, 2012 Oh the poor little guy on the Upper East side... Why does everyone assume that all residents of the Upper East Side are automatically affluent?? It's like my future neighborhood in Riverdale. Some parts of Riverdale are very wealthy (subsections like Fieldston) and other parts (i.e. Northern Riverdale) is more middle class, so yes, the little guy is right. In any event your comment just proves my point that if this was a poor neighborhood, the yearning to build a subway entrance despite the opposition from the immediate residents in the area as a way of "getting back" at the perceived "rich folks" wouldn't be the priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmallParkShuttle Posted January 16, 2012 Share #490 Posted January 16, 2012 lol... In any event they are doing everything they can to protect their neighborhood and you're right. This thing may get dragged out in court for years, but what I'm happy about is that the can't bully the little guy for once. :tup: In this situation, the hasn't done any bullying; this project is still in the concept phase and they went to the board first for the neighborhood's input. Don't give me any other instances, because I will bring you back to this instance, the latest, in which they handled it by the book. This impending court battle is a waste of time and resources, and that is what pisses me off. Do they realize that any other alternatives can cause more financial damage than the current plan? Tunneling to 67th or 70 will bring a true taste of the SAS to Lexington, effectively gridlocking the area due to concurrent construction in the area. That will guarantee that property values will decrease and their neighborhood will be tarnished. If the "little guy" is middle class, then I'm pretty sure he is on the (MTA)'s side this time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 16, 2012 Share #491 Posted January 16, 2012 In this situation, the hasn't done any bullying; this project is still in the concept phase and they went to the board first for the neighborhood's input. Don't give me any other instances, because I will bring you back to this instance, the latest, in which they handled it by the book. This impending court battle is a waste of time and resources, and that is what pisses me off. Do they realize that any other alternatives can cause more financial damage than the current plan? Tunneling to 67th or 70 will bring a true taste of the SAS to Lexington, effectively gridlocking the area due to concurrent construction in the area. That will guarantee that property values will decrease and their neighborhood will be tarnished. If the "little guy" is middle class, then I'm pretty sure he is on the (MTA)'s side this time... They haven't done any bullying yet simply because the residents have taken a stand. As for your waste of time comment, the courts will decide in the end. These residents have every right to protect their neighborhood. Just because the majority doesn't agree with their stance doesn't mean that they're right is automatically revoked and that's what matters. :tup: Where would we be if we went with what the majority wanted in this country??? Just because the majority says "A" is right and what we need doesn't make it automatically right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmallParkShuttle Posted January 16, 2012 Share #492 Posted January 16, 2012 They haven't done any bullying yet simply because the residents have taken a stand. As for your waste of time comment, the courts will decide in the end. These residents have every right to protect their neighborhood. Just because the majority doesn't agree with their stance doesn't mean that they're right is automatically revoked and that's what matters. :tup: Where would we be if we went with what the majority wanted in this country??? Just because the majority says "A" is right and what we need doesn't make it automatically right. What country are you living in? In the matters of public space and matters affecting the public, the majority decision is the rule. This new subway entrance is both. Yes they have every right to protect their neighborhood, if the threat is major and credible. The threats cited by this group are not major, have previously existed and most likely will not significantly change (if they stop yapping about their upscale block) with the construction of this entrance. Also, if the wanted to bully, then why would they lay out their plans from the start? This is unlike the last fare hike, in which they gave us two weeks notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 16, 2012 Share #493 Posted January 16, 2012 What country are you living in? In the matters of public space and matters affecting the public, the majority decision is the rule. This new subway entrance is both. Yes they have every right to protect their neighborhood, if the threat is major and credible. The threats cited by this group are not major, have previously existed and most likely will not significantly change (if they stop yapping about their upscale block) with the construction of this entrance. Also, if the wanted to bully, then why would they lay out their plans from the start? This is unlike the last fare hike, in which they gave us two weeks notice. Last I checked this is the USA and like I said, they have a right to voice their opinion and make their case, REGARDLESS of whether or not the majority think otherwise and that's the point. You may not like it but it's their right and they'll have their day in court to do just that. There are a lot of things that the majority supported in this country that I won't go into, but the point is the minority still had a right to voice their opinion, and this instance is no different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lance25 Posted January 16, 2012 Share #494 Posted January 16, 2012 Please don't tell me you're trying to equate race segregation and the like with the building of a new entrance for a damn subway station, because that's what it looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanTheTransitMan Posted January 16, 2012 Share #495 Posted January 16, 2012 Why does everyone assume that all residents of the Upper East Side are automatically affluent?? It's like my future neighborhood in Riverdale. Some parts of Riverdale are very wealthy (subsections like Fieldston) and other parts (i.e. Northern Riverdale) is more middle class, so yes, the little guy is right. In any event your comment just proves my point that if this was a poor neighborhood, the yearning to build a subway entrance despite the opposition from the immediate residents in the area as a way of "getting back" at the perceived "rich folks" wouldn't be the priority. Just to add on, there are a lot of people on section 8 who live on the upper east side especially on 94th and 93rd. I love when people jump the gun and automatically assume that a neighborhood is filled with rich people just because the average income is high in that area. Don't get me wrong I'm well aware that there are a good amount of people with an extremely high salary in the upper east side, but you also have to take into account that there are a lot of people who live in the upper east side that are part of the working class and the impoverished class (the people who are on section 8). These income gaps skew the economic data that is derived from the area. Thus people get the misconception that all upper east side residents are rich, pompous, and live immaculately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 16, 2012 Share #496 Posted January 16, 2012 Please don't tell me you're trying to equate race segregation and the like with the building of a new entrance for a damn subway station, because that's what it looks like. I alluded to nothing of the sort. I simply stated that just because the majority wants something doesn't mean it's automatically right. I gave no specific examples purposely to stay on topic. Just to add on, there are a lot of people on section 8 who live on the upper east side especially on 94th and 93rd. I love when people jump the gun and automatically assume that a neighborhood is filled with rich people just because the average income is high in that area. Don't get me wrong I'm well aware that there are a good amount of people with an extremely high salary in the upper east side, but you also have to take into account that there are a lot of people who live in the upper east side are part of the working class and the impoverished class (the people who are on section 8). These income gaps skew the economic data that is derived from the area. Thus people get the misconception that all upper east side residents are rich, pompous, and live immaculately. Thank you!! This post is right on the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanTheTransitMan Posted January 16, 2012 Share #497 Posted January 16, 2012 I alluded to nothing of the sort. I simply stated that just because the majority wants something doesn't mean it's automatically right. I gave no specific examples purposely to stay on topic. Thank you!! This post is right on the money. I just wanted to disprove a misconception that people seem to have about the upper east side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmallParkShuttle Posted January 16, 2012 Share #498 Posted January 16, 2012 Last I checked this is the USA and like I said, they have a right to voice their opinion and make their case, REGARDLESS of whether or not the majority think otherwise and that's the point. You may not like it but it's their right and they'll have their day in court to do just that. There are a lot of things that the majority supported in this country that I won't go into, but the point is the minority still had a right to voice their opinion, and this instance is no different. I said they have the right too, but that doesn't change the fact that this move by them has the potential to negatively impact thousands of people and forces the to spend money and time on litigation. They went to the courts because they know that neither the nor the riding public take the crap they're throwing around seriously. Usually the papers would take this opportunity to bash the , but even they are taking nothing further than a neutral stance. You might see a homeless person (in the vicinity of a CUNY school). Tough noogies, welcome to New York. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 16, 2012 Share #499 Posted January 16, 2012 I said they have the right too, but that doesn't change the fact that this move by them has the potential to negatively impact thousands of people and forces the to spend money and time on litigation. They went to the courts because they know that neither the nor the riding public take the crap they're throwing around seriously. Usually the papers would take this opportunity to bash the , but even they are taking nothing further than a neutral stance. You might see a homeless person (in the vicinity of a CUNY school). Tough noogies, welcome to New York. Of course it doesn't. My main issue is I feel some of the folks pushing this so called necessary for the majority line on the forums here are doing so only because they feel like it would get back at the so called rich people that they can't stand and that shouldn't be the reason for building it. It's like all of a sudden everyone gave a damn about the disabled in this city. I still remember the thread where some folks said that there aren't that many disabled people in the city (and now suddenly, the disabled folks matter so much that we absolutely MUST build this entrance). That's my main issue with the whole thing. If the cares so much about the disabled folks at this station then don't make this an isolated incident. They pledged that going forward, all new stations will have air conditioning on the platforms, so they should pledge to make as many new stations ADA accessible as possible. Mind you I was the one months ago saying that more stations need to be ADA accessible and I still stand by that statement. I just wanted to disprove a misconception that people seem to have about the upper east side. Yes, maybe that will slow them down on their elitist twitch. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmallParkShuttle Posted January 16, 2012 Share #500 Posted January 16, 2012 Of course it doesn't. My main issue is I feel some of the folks pushing this so called necessary for the majority line on the forums here are doing so only because they feel like it would get back at the so called rich people that they can't stand and that shouldn't be the reason for building it. It's like all of a sudden everyone gave a damn about the disabled in this city. I still remember the thread where some folks said that there aren't that many disabled people in the city (and now suddenly, the disabled folks matter so much that we absolutely MUST build this entrance). That's my main issue with the whole thing. If the cares so much about the disabled folks at this station then don't make this an isolated incident. They pledged that going forward, all new stations will have air conditioning on the platforms, so they should pledge to make as many new stations ADA accessible as possible. Mind you I was the one months ago saying that more stations need to be ADA accessible and I still stand by that statement. Well I'm not one to separate justice by class; stupid comes from all income brackets. If they decided to reopen the closed entrance in my neighborhood and the people opposed it for the same reasons cited by the 69 st residents, I'd say the same thing. As far as the second part, not my argument. Also, keep in mind the cost of making stations ADA accessible, which is at least in the tens of millions. The can't do it all at once, but they have been doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.