BrooklynBus Posted October 13, 2011 Share #1 Posted October 13, 2011 http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2011/10/sbs-nostrand-ave-service-speak-up-now-or-forever-hold-your-peace/ http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2011/10/other-considerations-not-considered-for-the-sbs-nostrand-ave-route/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share #2 Posted October 13, 2011 http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2011/10/sbs-nostrand-ave-service-speak-up-now-or-forever-hold-your-peace/ http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2011/10/other-considerations-not-considered-for-the-sbs-nostrand-ave-route/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious2train Posted October 16, 2011 Share #3 Posted October 16, 2011 Sending B44 SBS to Sheepshead Bay station ( is a pretty crazy idea. But it would totally foil the (MTA)'s plan of goading people onto the Nostrand Av line instead of the Brighton line, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share #4 Posted October 16, 2011 Sending B44 SBS to Sheepshead Bay station is a pretty crazy idea. But it would totally foil the (MTA)'s plan of goading people onto the Nostrand Av line instead of the Brighton line, right? B) Aside from rush hours I don't think anyone who doesn't now take the B44 to Flatbush Avenue would change their travel path. And think of all the usage it would have by Kingsborough students. If they gave an additional transfer to the B49 and put on more shuttles, they probably could even eliminate the Limiteds in the morning an some of the Empire Blvd buses in the afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future ENY OP Posted October 17, 2011 Share #5 Posted October 17, 2011 Sending B44 SBS to Sheepshead Bay station is a pretty crazy idea. But it would totally foil the (MTA)'s plan of goading people onto the Nostrand Av line instead of the Brighton line, right? That would be really crazy. You don't need the 44 and 49 around the same terminus. Keep the 44 in Sheepshead/Emmons Ave- Knapp Street. When I went to school/work in Sheepshead, I always took the 44 from Flatbush/Nostrand to Avenue X. Didn't need to worry about the brighton line. Not to say that the Brighton line isn't important, however this is where the B36 and B49 are there to do vs B44. Throwing the B44 off route to Ave Z/E.18th would be bad. *Isn't Sheepshead Bay Road narrow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 17, 2011 Share #6 Posted October 17, 2011 That would be really crazy. You don't need the 44 and 49 around the same terminus. Keep the 44 in Sheepshead/Emmons Ave- Knapp Street. When I went to school/work in Sheepshead, I always took the 44 from Flatbush/Nostrand to Avenue X. Didn't need to worry about the brighton line. Not to say that the Brighton line isn't important, however this is where the B36 and B49 are there to do vs B44. Throwing the B44 off route to Ave Z/E.18th would be bad. *Isn't Sheepshead Bay Road narrow? I agree.... The B44 should stay where it is and so should the B49. Regarding Sheepshead Bay Road, I grew up not too far from there over by Avenue Z, and Sheepshead Bay Road isn't the widest of streets, but the B4 and B49 still do okay over there. However, I could see a problem having the B44 over there. Way too much traffic, plus double parking can be a problem over there because all of the prima donnas have to have their big expensive Western European cars out and about (Audi's, BMWs, Porsche's and Mercedes-Benz's) to be exact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share #7 Posted October 17, 2011 That would be really crazy. You don't need the 44 and 49 around the same terminus. Keep the 44 in Sheepshead/Emmons Ave- Knapp Street. No one said anything about the 44 and 49 sharing a terminus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share #8 Posted October 17, 2011 I agree.... Regarding Sheepshead Bay Road, the B4 and B49 still do okay over there. However, I could see a problem having the B44 over there. Way too much traffic, plus double parking can be a problem. You obviously haven't been there in a while. The B4 no longer uses Sheepshead Bay Road. Also there is virtually no double parking on Sheepshead Bay Road, only illegal parking, most of it by car services taking pasengers to where the B36 operates because there aren't enough of them. They also take people to where the B4 used to take them and used by people who don't want to wait 15 to 30 minutes for. B4 during the limited hours it does operate. The only concern is layup area and th buses ability to make the required turns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted October 17, 2011 Share #9 Posted October 17, 2011 I agree.... The B44 should stay where it is and so should the B49. Regarding Sheepshead Bay Road, I grew up not too far from there over by Avenue Z, and Sheepshead Bay Road isn't the widest of streets, but the B4 and B49 still do okay over there. However, I could see a problem having the B44 over there. Way too much traffic, plus double parking can be a problem over there because all of the prima donnas have to have their big expensive Western European cars out and about (Audi's, BMWs, Porsche's and Mercedes-Benz's) to be exact. Most riders along Nostrand are going to Knapp Street not to the Sheapshead Bay station. And if they are they are usually using a crosstown bus to transfer to the ( Brighton Line stations i.e (B43) to Prospect Park(via Empire Blvd) (B35) to East 16th/Church Ave station, (B8) to Newkirk, etc. which is much faster. Now with this info, it gives a partial reason why the (B4) was truncated to CI Ave/Avenue Z just outside of CI Hosptial. Another example of the staff in operations only looking at metrocard/computer data and not going in person for where the actual customer bus usage in that area.:tdown: Instead of this stupid idea, the should be working with the NYC DOT to making New York Avenue a 1-way only northbound street so buses can serve the busy and very important Kings County/Clarkson Avenue stop. Even if that means, a few car owners will lose parking spots on NY Avenue, this is NYC where mass transit in most cases is more important than their own cars. And I am a car owner myself. PS Thanks Brooklyn Bus for this info/attached article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 17, 2011 Share #10 Posted October 17, 2011 You obviously haven't been there in a while. The B4 no longer uses Sheepshead Bay Road. Also there is virtually no double parking on Sheepshead Bay Road, only illegal parking, most of it by car services taking pasengers to where the B36 operates because there aren't enough of them. They also take people to where the B4 used to take them and used by people who don't want to wait 15 to 30 minutes for. B4 during the limited hours it does operate. The only concern is layup area and th buses ability to make the required turns. Actually, I was there just last Saturday. I go to Ginger Rose right on Sheepshead Bay Road & Emmons via the BM3, and yes, the B4 does use Sheepshead Bay Road, just not outside of rush hours of course. As for the double parking, yes, it's illegal, but it is still double parking nonetheless. I think the double parking is more of a problem on the weekends though. During the week it isn't as bad. You can't tell me that all of those B44s coming over by Sheepshead Bay Road wouldn't create a problem though??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted October 17, 2011 Share #11 Posted October 17, 2011 ...and yes, the B4 does use Sheepshead Bay Road, just not outside of rush hours of course. Sheepshead bay road.... nah, he's right.... B4's coming from and going to Sheepshead Bay (knapp/voorhies), stay on Av. Z now.... It doesn't parallel the B49 like it used to... It doesn't touch Sheepshead Bay road..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 17, 2011 Share #12 Posted October 17, 2011 Sheepshead bay road.... nah, he's right.... B4's coming from and going to Sheepshead Bay (knapp/voorhies), stay on Av. Z now.... It doesn't parallel the B49 like it used to... It doesn't touch Sheepshead Bay road..... Jesus!! You're right. I forgot about the friggin' re-route! I just thought that because they only run during the rush hour that they kept the same route. You just reminded me about the missing shelter over on Emmons and Shore Blvd. I don't really look at the signs I guess since I'm so used to seeing the B49s over there. That's terrible... :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share #13 Posted October 17, 2011 Most riders along Nostrand are going to Knapp Street not to the Sheapshead Bay station. Where are you getting you information from? Are you looking at both the B44 and the B36? Now with this info, it gives a partial reason why the (B4) was truncated to CI Ave/Avenue Z just outside of CI Hosptial. Another example of the staff in operations only looking at metrocard/computer data and not going in person for where the actual customer bus usage in that area.:tdown: Don't undertand what you are trying to say here. Instead of this stupid idea, the should be working with the NYC DOT to making New York Avenue a 1-way only northbound street so buses can serve the busy and very important Kings County/Clarkson Avenue stop. Even if that means, a few car owners will lose parking spots on NY Avenue, this is NYC where mass transit in most cases is more important than their own cars. And I am a car owner myself. The MTA can't work with DOT to make NY Avenue one-way because they have nothing to say about that. DOT makes those types of decisions on their own. They haven't done it because they need another street to pair it with. The problem is that Brooklyn Avenue does not go through Kings County Hospital and between Lefferts and Winthrop it is already paired with Kingston. They could make NY one way keeping the two blocks between Winthrop and Clarkson two-way, but that might just mess us things more. There isn't an easy answer. Jesus!! You're right. I forgot about the friggin' re-route! I just thought that because they only run during the rush hour that they kept the same route. You just reminded me about the missing shelter over on Emmons and Shore Blvd. I don't really look at the signs I guess since I'm so used to seeing the B49s over there. That's terrible... :mad: Actually three shelters were removed from Neptune. I thought that perhaps you were relying on the signs because the B4 sign on the shelter outside El Greco and across from Ginger Rose still exists because CEMUSA has not been updating any of the shelters and DOT isn't watching them. You can't tell me that all of those B44s coming over by Sheepshead Bay Road wouldn't create a problem though??? I think it's doable if you got rid of the dozen car services that are illegally hanging out by the curb outside the station. I wouldn't be surprised if they are paying the cops off not to ticket them. If they received regular summonses, they wouldn't be there. I think they should be legal anyway and allowed to stand at the Voorhies Avenue end if they are needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted October 17, 2011 Share #14 Posted October 17, 2011 Where are you getting you information from? Are you looking at both the B44 and the B36? Don't undertand what you are trying to say here. I mean along the main Nostrand coordior *north* of Avenue U, most riders are going to Knapp Street with my previous comments. I know a descent number of riders transfer at Nostrand/Avenue U between the (B36) and (B44). Sometimes as many as 20-25 riders per transfer trip there. I did live in Southern Brooklyn for 30 years until moving upstate 6 years ago, and used the (B36) (B44) combo many many times. So i know that area well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted October 17, 2011 Share #15 Posted October 17, 2011 Jesus!! You're right. I forgot about the friggin' re-route! I just thought that because they only run during the rush hour that they kept the same route. You just reminded me about the missing shelter over on Emmons and Shore Blvd. I don't really look at the signs I guess since I'm so used to seeing the B49s over there. That's terrible... yup, B4's no longer have to use sheepshead bay road, since they're not coming up from neptune (emmons) anymore... Most riders along Nostrand are going to Knapp Street not to the Sheapshead Bay station. And if they are they are usually using a crosstown bus to transfer to the Brighton Line stations i.e to Prospect Park(via Empire Blvd) to East 16th/Church Ave station, to Newkirk, etc. which is much faster. That first statement couldn't be any further from the truth..... people are not taking/remaining on SB B44's in droves, south of Av. Z, en route to Knapp st.... you see a lot of folks xferring off SB 44's either at the Av X stop or the Av Y stop.... that part of Sheepshead east of Nostrand (and south of av Z), man there were more B4 than there were B44 riders.... and I say that w/ ease, and no hesitation whatsoever.... ....and I'm not particularly buying that there's any real significant amt. of nostrand av folks taking B8's, B35's, etc. for the sake of gettin to Sheepshead bay... the ppl. you see coming off WB B35's (at the very least) having already served nostrand, are ppl. waiting on Manhattan bound platforms..... Outside of schoolkids, ppl. waiting for B's & Q's on the CI/Brighton Bch. bound platform @ church av, is rather weak.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted October 17, 2011 Share #16 Posted October 17, 2011 That would be really crazy. You don't need the 44 and 49 around the same terminus. Keep the 44 in Sheepshead/Emmons Ave- Knapp Street. When I went to school/work in Sheepshead, I always took the 44 from Flatbush/Nostrand to Avenue X. Didn't need to worry about the brighton line. Not to say that the Brighton line isn't important, however this is where the B36 and B49 are there to do vs B44. Throwing the B44 off route to Ave Z/E.18th would be bad. *Isn't Sheepshead Bay Road narrow? They're not going to be at the same terminus. The B49 would continue to Kingsborough, and the B44 (+SBS+ only) would go to the Sheepshead Bay station. The reasoning is straightforward: Ridership is light south of Avenue Z, but B36s can get crowded, so it would bring the service to where it's needed. Most riders along Nostrand are going to Knapp Street not to the Sheapshead Bay station. And if they are they are usually using a crosstown bus to transfer to the ( Brighton Line stations i.e (B43) to Prospect Park(via Empire Blvd) (B35) to East 16th/Church Ave station, (B8) to Newkirk, etc. which is much faster. Now with this info, it gives a partial reason why the (B4) was truncated to CI Ave/Avenue Z just outside of CI Hosptial. Another example of the staff in operations only looking at metrocard/computer data and not going in person for where the actual customer bus usage in that area.:tdown: He's only talking about Sheepshead Bay riders who happen to live by Nostrand Avenue, not riders coming all the way from the Junction or points north of that. Jesus!! You're right. I forgot about the friggin' re-route! I just thought that because they only run during the rush hour that they kept the same route. You just reminded me about the missing shelter over on Emmons and Shore Blvd. I don't really look at the signs I guess since I'm so used to seeing the B49s over there. That's terrible... :mad: Yeah, since the B4 was cut back to CI Hospital, they decided that it didn't have to go all the way down to Neptune Avenue just to come back up to Avenue Z again. 1) Don't undertand what you are trying to say here. 2) The MTA can't work with DOT to make NY Avenue one-way because they have nothing to say about that. DOT makes those types of decisions on their own. They haven't done it because they need another street to pair it with. The problem is that Brooklyn Avenue does not go through Kings County Hospital and between Lefferts and Winthrop it is already paired with Kingston. They could make NY one way keeping the two blocks between Winthrop and Clarkson two-way, but that might just mess us things more. There isn't an easy answer. 1) He's saying that riders around the B4's terminal are being coerced onto the Nostrand Avenue Line. The MTA discontinued off-peak B4 service down there, but now they want to double the B44 service in that area. He's saying that the MTA is hoping that the riders in the area will be happy with the extra service and won't ask for the B4 back off-peak. Since you have the B44 every, say 4 minutes and the B4 every 15 minutes, they're hoping that ridership will shift to the B44 and they could discontinue B4 service completely in that area. 2) But do they have to have Kings County Hospital served by a 2-way street? I mean, the hospitals in Manhattan are mostly served by 1-way streets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted October 17, 2011 Share #17 Posted October 17, 2011 They're not going to be at the same terminus. The B49 would continue to Kingsborough, and the B44 (+SBS+ only) would go to the Sheepshead Bay station. Future FLA B/O's point was a very simple one.... Quite frankly, I agree w/ him.... All he's sayin is that you don't need the B44 & the B49 serving Sheepshead Bay subway station..... I didn't get thrown off by his use of the word terminus.... What I'll add to that is.... you have B44's go to the subway station, and you'll watch B36 ridership decrease along with it..... Book it. as for this SBS B44 on steroids.... I guess this Sheepshead Bay thing is supposed to be some kind of makeup of the potential ridership loss it'll endure along Rogers..... In any event, Let the super-routes commence.... He's only talking about Sheepshead Bay riders who happen to live by Nostrand Avenue, not riders coming all the way from the Junction or points north of that. Can't be only talkin about Sheepshead patrons that live around Nostrand, b/c he mentions ppl. that are taking buses (B43, B8, B35) to the brighton line... lol Regardless, it still doesn't make it anymore of a plausible statement.... He's essentially sayin that there's more B44 riders in that area that are riding out to Knapp st, as opposed to Sheepshead Bay subway, or anywhere around it.... That is just outright false, I'm sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted October 17, 2011 Share #18 Posted October 17, 2011 1) What I'll add to that is.... you have B44's go to the subway station, and you'll watch B36 ridership decrease along with it..... Book it. 2) If that is what he meant, it still doesn't make it anymore of a plausible statement.... He's essentially sayin that there's more B44 riders in that area that are riding out to Knapp st, as opposed to Sheepshead Bay subway.... That is just outright false, I'm sorry. 1) But that's the point: From what everybody's saying B36s have the potential to bunch and become overcrowded, so this would be a way of guaranteeing Brighton Line riders a bus home from the subway. 2) And that's why I corrected him. ShortLine thought BrooklynBus was referring to riders all the way up along Nostrand Avenue (which is why he mentioned the B8, B35, and B43), when he was just referring to riders in Sheepshead Bay (who would otherwise be B36 riders). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted October 18, 2011 Share #19 Posted October 18, 2011 1) But that's the point: From what everybody's saying B36s have the potential to bunch and become overcrowded, so this would be a way of guaranteeing Brighton Line riders a bus home from the subway. 2) ShortLine's saying that there are more riders out to Knapp Street, and I said that there's more riders to the ( (which is the same thing you're saying) 1) yes, at the expense of the 36, IMO. 2) I'm disagreeing with your interpretation of his statement, not your stance on this issue/discussion..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 18, 2011 Share #20 Posted October 18, 2011 Actually three shelters were removed from Neptune. I thought that perhaps you were relying on the signs because the B4 sign on the shelter outside El Greco and across from Ginger Rose still exists because CEMUSA has not been updating any of the shelters and DOT isn't watching them. You would think that I would since El Greco's is across the street from Ginger Rose... I'm too busy yacking with my barber about soccer and women and such I guess. What I usually do is just take Sheepshead Bay Road straight from Ginger Rose and head over to Stop & Shop, pick a few items that I need/want and maybe a snack and then head over to Avenue X & Ocean to catch the BM3 back to the city. I haven't really paid attention to the bus signs because I just walk or I may take the B49 if it happens to be there, but walking is usually quicker. Last Saturday the BM3 was almost 30 minutes late going to Sheepshead Bay and I saw no reason for it. :mad: BM1 came before the BM3! Anywho, I got down to Sheepshead Bay later than expected and had to rush out to get the BM3 back to the city so I just walked over to Emmons by Voorhies and got it there. I think it's doable if you got rid of the dozen car services that are illegally hanging out by the curb outside the station. I wouldn't be surprised if they are paying the cops off not to ticket them. If they received regular summonses, they wouldn't be there. I think they should be legal anyway and allowed to stand at the Voorhies Avenue end if they are needed. Yeah, you do have a point. Those taxis have been there like that for years... We're talking since I was a teenager if not longer and living in Sheepshead Bay...The funny thing is that I don't see that many people using them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share #21 Posted October 18, 2011 yup, B4's no longer have to use sheepshead bay road, since they're not coming up from neptune (emmons) anymore... That first statement couldn't be any further from the truth..... people are not taking/remaining on SB B44's in droves, south of Av. Z, en route to Knapp st.... you see a lot of folks xferring off SB 44's either at the Av X stop or the Av Y stop.... that part of Sheepshead east of Nostrand (and south of av Z), man there were more B4 than there were B44 riders.... and I say that w/ ease, and no hesitation whatsoever.... ....and I'm not particularly buying that there's any real significant amt. of nostrand av folks taking B8's, B35's, etc. for the sake of gettin to Sheepshead bay... the ppl. you see coming off WB B35's (at the very least) having already served nostrand, are ppl. waiting on Manhattan bound platforms..... Outside of schoolkids, ppl. waiting for B's & Q's on the CI/Brighton Bch. bound platform @ church av, is rather weak.... I tend to agree with you. If the B44 is still crowded by the time the bus reaches Avenue U, most people are off of it by Avenue Z. Ridership below that point is very light. There is no need to double the service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future ENY OP Posted October 18, 2011 Share #22 Posted October 18, 2011 Now, I've gotten a chance to read the article a 2nd time around. I'm going to say this. Any change to the current route of the 44 will make it EVEN LONGER THAN IT IS. Traffic on Nostrand is bad enough. I know from experience, and I currently live on Nostrand. I will stick to my previous statement in regards to having the 44 NOT going to Sheepshead Bay Station. You don't need the 44 to help out the 36 and 49. Nostrand Ave riders from Avenue X to Junction have 2/5 express to Manhattan. Quicker trip on the East side express to the city vs the Brighton line. Once again, not saying the Brighton line isn't important, but I wouldn't want to see the 44 making that left or right coming from Avenue Z & Sheepshead Bay Station to junction and points north/south. MORE STOPS + MORE TRAFFIC = B44 AN DISASTER. Checkmate: I gotchu on your analysis, however do remember AM rush. There's the 49(LTD) which does a very nice job in getting that whole chunk of people from the Brighton Line heading to KCC at Sheepshead Bay Road. IF anything the B4 needs to return back to that area FULL TIME OR add more lines to the 49 and have some rush-hour AM/PM terminate/start at Sheepshead Bay Road to Futon OR have alternative B1 buses go thru Sheepshead Bay road to supplement service.. I haven't been in that Sheepshead/Coney Island area in years, so someone in that area would kindly please correct me if possible.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCT7720 Posted October 18, 2011 Share #23 Posted October 18, 2011 lol Metrocard & Computer Data for surveying bus ridership is a ridiculous method the fareboxes break down alot these days especially in the Bronx they cover theirs with Metrocard transfers & they used to rip the ad's down & use some of the interior stickers as tape to hold it down. A short bus doing SBS is really ridiculous, Artics should be in control of the SBS routes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share #24 Posted October 18, 2011 lol Metrocard & Computer Data for surveying bus ridership is a ridiculous method the fareboxes break down alot these days especially in the Bronx they cover theirs with Metrocard transfers & they used to rip the ad's down & use some of the interior stickers as tape to hold it down. A short bus doing SBS is really ridiculous, Artics should be in control of the SBS routes. No one has proposed short buses for SBS although short buses will be used on the locals as far as I know, if that is what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 18, 2011 Share #25 Posted October 18, 2011 No one has proposed short buses for SBS although short buses will be used on the locals as far as I know, if that is what you mean. I'm confused.... Why the need for the B44 to go to Sheepshead Bay train station suddenly??? What is wrong with the B36? It seems like you're proposing something that you've been saying you're against, which is more super routes?? I would also like to know where did the B4 riders that took the B4 using the old Sheepshead Bay route go??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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