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dmouse

Culver Express?

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I was wondering if there was a (F) at one time or another that went Express from Jay St, to

 

7th Av

Church Av

18th

Kings Hwy

Avenue X

West 8th St - NY Aquarium

Coney Island - Stillwell avenue

 

Never heard of it before thought I asked, as I've never seen anything on the Culver Express tracks except @ Avenue U where a Jamaica R160 was laid up.

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I was wondering if there was a (F) at one time or another that went Express from Jay St, to

 

7th Av

Bay Pkwy

Kings Hwy

Avenue X

West 8th St - NY Aquarium

Coney Island - Stillwell avenue

 

Never heard of it before thought I asked, as I've never seen anything on the Culver Express tracks except @ Avenue U where a Jamaica R160 is usually laid up.

 

Bay Parkway is not an express stop on the (F) Culver line, the 18 Avenue stop is an express stop though. You forgot Church Avenue also as an Express stop. If anything the middle track at Avenue U is for put ins and layups for (F) service terminating/originating at Kings Highway.

 

I think there was a (F) express, that would be the trains coming to/from Coney Island though back in the 80s or 90s

 

Correct me if I'm wrong.

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Bay Parkway is not an express stop on the (F) Culver line, the 18 Avenue stop is an express stop though. You forgot Church Avenue also as an Express stop. If anything the middle track at Avenue U is for put ins and layups for (F) service terminating/originating at Kings Highway.

 

I think there was a (F) express, that would be the trains coming to/from Coney Island though back in the 80s or 90s

 

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

yeah you're right I meant 18th & Chrurch not Bay Pkwy

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I do not think it will happen. However, if it did, it will have to be in the peak direction.

 

He asked if it happened before, not that it's going to happen or that he wants it to happen! reread it.

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The Culver Express did happen before in the 70's and early 80's, but demand for it was extremely low, and it never carried much passengers. It was axed by the (MTA) intentionally. Why would it be axed you are asking that question? The Culver Express would skip all the busiest stops only stopping at stations with low demands. This would make the (F) express not economical.

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Guest lance25

As RC1 alluded to, there was an (F) express in the 1970s, making express stops at Jay St, Bergen St, 7 Av and Church Av, the making all stops to Stillwell Av. It only ran during rush hours and the (G) was extended from Smith-9 Sts to Church Av, making local stops. Also, as RC1 stated, said express service was eliminated due to low ridership a short time later. Outside of construction-related reroutes, I doubt the (F) has run in service the entirety of the Culver express tracks.

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Bay Parkway is not an express stop on the (F) Culver line, the 18 Avenue stop is an express stop though. You forgot Church Avenue also as an Express stop. If anything the middle track at Avenue U is for put ins and layups for (F) service terminating/originating at Kings Highway.

 

I think there was a (F) express, that would be the trains coming to/from Coney Island though back in the 80s or 90s

 

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

They ran via the IND-built Culver express, not the 3-track section.

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No, there was a peak-direction (F) express service that ran between Kings Highway and 18th Avenue in the early 80s. It ran express to/from Coney Island while (F) local trains started/ended at Kings Highway. It was suspended in 1985 due to rehabilitation of the Culver el, same reason the <7> express was. Unlike the <7>, which came back after the Flushing el rehabilitation was completed, the (F) express didn't, but some (F) trains terminated at Kings Highway during rush hours after the el work was finished.

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No, there was a peak-direction (F) express service that ran between Kings Highway and 18th Avenue in the early 80s. It ran express to/from Coney Island while (F) local trains started/ended at Kings Highway. It was suspended in 1985 due to rehabilitation of the Culver el, same reason the <7> express was. Unlike the <7>, which came back after the Flushing el rehabilitation was completed, the (F) express didn't, but some (F) trains terminated at Kings Highway during rush hours after the el work was finished.

 

 

Correct. However when the (F) Culver express was discontinued it was prior to the population boom in Park Slope/Red Hook of the 1990's. Now IMO a rush hour (F) should run 'express' after the current culver viaduct project is done. The (MTA) is studying a culver line express as we speak. With that said, the only thing that is almost certain(nothing is a sure bet with the (MTA) until it approved)after the re-construction is the (G) running permament to terminate at Church Ave 24/7.:eek:

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As RC1 alluded to, there was an (F) express in the 1970s, making express stops at Jay St, Bergen St, 7 Av and Church Av, the making all stops to Stillwell Av. It only ran during rush hours and the (G) was extended from Smith-9 Sts to Church Av, making local stops.
Was that pattern express in both directions or one way to and from Manhattan during the weekday rush hours? I know that the '80s pattern was like that (express between 18 Av and Kings Hwy in the peak direction for Coney Island trains).

 

edit: Never mind, I got the picture.

Edited by IRT Bronx Express

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The the only thing that the Culver Express tracks are used for now are trains that have to make up for lost time. Here is an example of the (F) using the express tracks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rQodAHrVo4

The last stop on these (F) trains was Avenue X.

 

Not true, Work trains run on the express tracks along with put ins (sometimes).

 

And Yes, Even trains that are running late, Museum Specials, Test Trains ( If I remember right Culver Express at 18th Avenue is a testing track)

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I've ridden the (F) frequently during 2007~2010. In the period of time:

  • I've gotten on (F) trains express fresh out of Kings High way all the way to Smith/9 Streets (battery run),
  • a few rare runs from Jay Street to Coney Island with stops skipped between 7 Avenue, Church Avenue, Kings Highway, and Coney Island,
  • (F) trains using the lower level tracks from Bergen Street to Church Avenue during construction,
  • plenty of (F) trains running express from 18 Avenue to Kings Highway and then local to Coney Island.

 

Even though it wasn't on the maps or schedule, the (F) express was more or less regular from 18 Avenue to Kings Highway; lateness was frequent on the line and I could count on catching one every few days.

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It's not going to be popular. The whole reason why the (F) express failed is because it skipped high residential areas like Park Slope.

The service, apparently, has not kept up with the population boom since the 1970s. It would not be valid to argue against the service on the basis of conditions from 40 years ago.

 

This has been argued to death on some old transit forum I forgot the name of already, but for the newcomers:

  • The (F) can be express between Jay Street and Church Avenue on the condition that another 6 Avenue service runs local and just as (if not more) frequently.

  • For there to be another 6 Avenue service, the other local ((M)) must be eliminated. There is going to be some fighting there.

  • The (F) can be express between Church Avenue and Kings Highway on the condition that a 6 Avenue local (and not the (G)) serves the local stations. Frequency need not be compensated for by the new service as current (F) service is already overkill for those lightly used stations.

  • The switches at Kings Highway must be reconfigured to the way they were originally to allow locals to start/terminate at Kings Highway and expresses to continue to/from Coney Island. (Why the current configuration is the way it is is beyond my comprehension; all of the switches make it so that the only point a train can go express from Coney Island is at Avenue X, but numerous switches encourage switching to the local track from the express track.)

 

 

The argument against the express is usually concerning the lack of (F) service at the local stations like Carroll Street. However, if another local (like the (V)) served the station, they would not only have local service, but the trains would have standing room if not seats. (V) riders won't have to take on the baggage from Coney Island to Church Avenue, and (F) riders won't have to be progressively compressed into a smaller amount of space as the train tours Park Slope.

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Not unless if you make an <(F)> something similar to the (7)<7>.

If you're talking about the segment between Church Avenue and Jay Street, a split is not happening. You need to hold 6 Avenue train frequencies constant on the local line relative to today's frequencies. The express service's frequency can't be decreased too much from what we have now. If you have an (F) and an <F> (local and express between Church Avenue and Jay Street, respectively) where would the (M) go? How would you fit the (F) and <F> with the (E) in Queens? The lines are all intertwined, and a service change will cause ripple effects like that.

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You split the trains :P. Half of all the trains on the (F) line will be express and the other half would be all local. Diamond (F) trains run local in Manhattan like the normal (F), and run express on the IND Queens Boulevard Line like the normal (F). There isn't any difference except that the diamond (F) would be running express on the Culver Line. Of course that would give local Culver residents less trains per hour, but with the (G) to Church Avenue they would be as happy as clams. I won't extend the (G) farther down the Culver Line, because I don't see much demands for it unless if it is overcrowded down there which I don't see.

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Thing is, those riders would probably prefer 15 one-seat rides per hour over express service that really will save at most a couple of minutes but forcing a transfer from the only-4-cars G half the time.

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You split the trains :P. Half of all the trains on the (F) line will be express and the other half would be all local. Diamond (F) trains run local in Manhattan like the normal (F), and run express on the IND Queens Boulevard Line like the normal (F). There isn't any difference except that the diamond (F) would be running express on the Culver Line. Of course that would give local Culver residents less trains per hour, but with the (G) to Church Avenue they would be as happy as clams. I won't extend the (G) farther down the Culver Line, because I don't see much demands for it unless if it is overcrowded down there which I don't see.

I don't think you're getting the idea. If you split the (F) in half, the local stations get half the frequency because you can't maintain the same frequency for both halves and not cause problems along 6 Avenue and Queens Boulevard. The problem is not just redistributing the riders so that the ones south of Church Avenue avoid the ones north of it and vice versa because if the local trains coming out of Church Avenue are missing half of the riders but are coming out at half the frequency, you still get the same crowding problem.

 

Thing is, those riders would probably prefer 15 one-seat rides per hour over express service that really will save at most a couple of minutes but forcing a transfer from the only-4-cars G half the time.

Forget about 15 one-seat rides per hour when there isn't even breathing room on and of those 15 rides. It's more about the capacity then the speed. When the (V) was still running, the 6 Avenue local was almost saturated with service. The idea was to extend this service down to Park Slope and use the express tracks to carry the extra traffic. Remember you can't cram the (F), (G), and (V) on one track and expect to keep the frequencies up for all of them.

 

There. You just gave the exact reason why the Culver Express was killed in the first place.

The Culver express was killed off because the (G) was the only local along the line. People did not need Brooklyn/Queens service. They needed to get to Midtown without transferring.

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