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Urbanfortitude

So how about that Brighton Exp?

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When I lived back in Sheepshead Bay and had to go to the city, I RARELY caught a (:P train. The (Q)s are far more frequent than the (B)s, but so much more frequent that it makes waiting for the (:P a waste because they seem to come whenever and take forever for some reason. Sometimes I would wait for a (B) if I thought one would come quickly, but most of the time I gambled and lost. It seems like the (B) should be so much more quicker, but it really isn't. I personally think the frequencies should be increased on the (B). Maybe part of the reason that they're so problematic is because they tend to have older cars? Whatever it is I think it is one of the worst trains in the system. The worse train by far though is the (G). The headways are ridiculous! :mad:

 

You also have to think about its trunk line (6th Ave). Higher frequencies would probably interfere with the (D) in Manhattan.

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In your situation I would take the (Q) every day.

 

He works in the West Village, so the (:P is closer to his job.

 

That does seem to be the case. I took the (:P to Brighton from manhattan...it flew through the express run. But the only (Q) train I saw started to leave as soon as i started up the coney island bound stairs. (B) train switched tracks to terminate so I lost all that time I had gained because I had to wait for the next (Q)

 

Couldn't you have switched at Sheepshead Bay?

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You also have to think about its trunk line (6th Ave). Higher frequencies would probably interfere with the (D) in Manhattan.

 

You would think so but the (D) doesn't run that great either. I've often waited for the (:P or (D) at the 47-50th street station and it's like a 15 minute wait sometimes with two lines running! What's worse is they come back to back, so basically once they run that's it for another 10 - 15 minutes. :mad: Terrible service IMO.

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You would think so but the (D) doesn't run that great either. I've often waited for the (:P or (D) at the 47-50th street station and it's like a 15 minute wait sometimes with two lines running! What's worse is they come back to back, so basically once they run that's it for another 10 - 15 minutes. :mad: Terrible service IMO.

 

In NYC Transit nothing runs on time... I would think you would know this since you've been on this earth longer then some.

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Well the headways on the (:P off peak are 10 mins, the (:P wasn't designed to give an express ride for (Q) riders, it was to give those gap stations express service.

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Well the headways on the (B) off peak are 10 mins, the (B) wasn't designed to give an express ride for (Q) riders, it was to give those gap stations express service.

Past service patterns suggested that the Brighton express was for people from Coney Island (a.k.a. the people furthest from the city). It's just that the (F) took over the lower level tracks that made it difficult to continue such a service pattern, but there was a short time when the switches north of Brighton Beach were used to switch Coney Island trains from the local track to the express track and Brighton Beach trains to the local track from the express tracks at the terminal. And then they figured: why have all the complexities of swapping tracks?

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Meant now, of course everything changes from historical era to historical era. Look how the (G) is now compared to what it used to be when it was a "true" crosstown.

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Well the headways on the (B) off peak are 10 mins, the (B) wasn't designed to give an express ride for (Q) riders, it was to give those gap stations express service.

 

 

LOL... The way that train runs, it seems like it wasn't designed to give anyone an express ride. Always hit or miss with that train. They should be better spaced out with the (D) in the city for sure. So many times both of them show up together at 59th street and then you have no trains for another 10 - 15 minutes.

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I like the (B) Brighton Express because:

 

 

  1. There's not too much train traffic on the Brighton tracks since the (B) and (Q) use different ones between Parkside Av-Brighton Beach
  2. The (Q) isn't held at the Manhattan bound side at Brighton Beach since the (:) isn't merging anymore on the local from the express tracks
  3. Coney Island bound (Q)s are no longer held to wait behind a (:) that is waiting to go to Brighton Beach.

 

 

However I have seen some minor issues in that:

 

  1. There tends to be a bunching of the (B) and (Q)s, causing longer waits for either line, (sometimes waiting a bit longer for a (Q) which isn't fun for (Q) riders along the local Brighton (Q) stops)
  2. The (B) being held between Sheepshead Bay and Brighton Beach, as it terminates at Brighton Beach due to two trains at the Brighton Beach Terminal stop (Before reinstating express (B) Brighton service, backed up (Q) trains also)
  3. Sometimes the (B) express isn't really a timesaver, especially if a (Q) doesn't show up after riding the express (B) run right after leaving the (B) (especially if the (B) doesn't pass the (Q) at any point during the run.

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I like the (B) Brighton Express because:

 

 

  1. Sometimes the (B) express isn't really a timesaver, especially if a (Q) doesn't show up after riding the express (:) run right after leaving the (:) (especially if the (B) doesn't pass the (Q) at any point during the run.

 

Well there isn't many senario in which it does save any time. The moral of the story still is, don't let a (Q) go so you can get a (B). Going north, if both trains are exactly on time (not ahead or late), the (Q) and (B) should leave Brighton together, and the (B) should be 5 mins ahead of the (Q) by time it reaches Prospect Park, with the (Q) 5 mins ahead of the next (B), allowing equal spacing between trains (off peak). Of course in leaf season (like it is now) this changes due to whether T/Os observes the slow speed near Newkirk (all tracks). Some do, some do not, some partially, some only do it when its raining. It messes with the runtime in the end. So far, I have observed it going north into Newkirk, but not completely. I have ignored it going into Church, only braking much earlier than I usually do. It is generally ok to disobey the "slow speed order" as it is not marked by any signals (five yellow flags/lamps). Just don't overrun a station and blame leaves, as then you'll be written up not for the overrun, but for violating that "slow speed order".

 

Back to the express run itself, it only makes sense if your destination is Sheepshead Bay or Brighton, or if the next train to reach your platform was in fact a (B). Unless you're going to the aforementioned stations, never let a (Q) go by thinking you were gonna save time waiting for a (B). It has been this way ever since express service to Stillwell itself was cut off.

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Back to the express run itself, it only makes sense if your destination is Sheepshead Bay or Brighton, or if the next train to reach your platform was in fact a (B). Unless you're going to the aforementioned stations, never let a (Q) go by thinking you were gonna save time waiting for a (B). It has been this way ever since express service to Stillwell itself was cut off.

 

So in other words if a (Q) reaches the station I'm currently on comes first, I'm better off taking that (Q) then waiting a bit longer for a (:) since the (:) doesn't save much time anyway. I hope I understood you correctly.

 

And as for the slow order along Brighton, with the leaves on the tracks, T/Os have to be a bit more careful entering the stations to avoid overshooting, since the leaves make the tracks a bit slippery?

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My responses in blue.

So in other words if a (Q) reaches the station I'm currently on comes first, I'm better off taking that (Q) then waiting a bit longer for a (;) since the (:P doesn't save much time anyway. I hope I understood you correctly.

Yup, exactly; unless you're going to Sheepshead Bay or Brighton Beach.

 

And as for the slow order along Brighton, with the leaves on the tracks, T/Os have to be a bit more careful entering the stations to avoid overshooting, since the leaves make the tracks a bit slippery? The slow speed order mandates 10mph for BOTH (Q) and (:P service from north end of Avenue H to north end of Church. For (;) T/O operating properly, that means braking at the head of Ave H going north, and adjacent to Parkside going south. 10mph that whole stretch. They add 5 mins to runtime for that. (Q) trains also have the same restriction.

 

Going back to the (B) vs (Q) situation, ill give you most every senario:

 

1. At 34th-Herald Sq (the first station you can get both services): Take the (B) if you're going to a station that's served by the (B) or past Brighton Beach. If going past Brighton, wait for the (Q) at Sheepshead Bay or Brighton, depending on circumstance (like if you just missed it at Sheepshead, matters well stay on, and hopefully your (B) comes in on the right track for a transfer).

 

2. Anywhere from Dekalb to Prospect Park: Take the first train you see that will stop at your destination. If your destination is an express stop, and you're on a (Q) at Newkirk, you can peek out the door to see if a (B) is coming. If so, feel free to transfer to it. If you JUST missed a (B), do not wait for the next one, just take the (Q). If you're going past Brighton, same thing. Take the first train you see.

 

What NOT to do:

 

1 - You're on a (Q) with your destination past Brighton. You get off at Prospect Park to wait for a (B) so hopefully you can catch the (Q) in front of the original one you were on by Brighton. You won't, and depending on how far back that (B) is, you may not even catch back the one you were on.

 

2 - You're on a (B), and you're trying to get to Ave U or Neck Rd. You notice you didn't pass a (Q) on the way to Kings Hwy. You take that (B) to Sheepshead in the hopes of catching a connecting northbound (Q) to either of those two stations hoping to save time from getting off at Kings Hwy and waiting for a (Q). Unless you hit that connection just right, most days it was better just to wait for that (Q) behind your train instead of backtracking, besides the extra energy wasted by stair climbing.

 

This is what the people on here mean by "it doesn't save much time, if any". Time savings is measured in the system either by transferring and taking an express train to an express stop (assuming your destination was that express stop), or using an express train to get ahead of your local train's leader, saving that piece of time right there going to a local stop. The IRT lines off-peak are the best at this (hit and miss during rush hour) because of their frequency of service.

 

At times, one can get off a <6> at Union Sq (even if an express isn't entering at that same time), get an express, and get the express in front of it at 125 (8 minutes in front usually, 6-7 minutes in rush hour). In my history of doing this, the chance is about 60%. Similar trends are for the local. The same thing goes for the west side, trying to get the (1) in front of the one you're on. Not so in the IND/BMT, train frequencies and express runs not long enough to justify such a move.

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