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MTA Testing Removal of Trash Cans at Stations

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Guest lance25

Yeah, that's not a typo. The agency is actually looking into whether there should be trash cans at certain stations or not.

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority has been testing the plan at two stations for the last two weeks: The Main Street station on the No. 7 line in Flushing, Queens, and the Eighth Street N and R station in Manhattan.

 

The MTA says it’s an experiment to see how much it can reduce the amount of refuse it picks up at the stations in a given month.

 

If it is successful, it may expand the program to other stations.

 

The MTA says the two-month no-bin experiment is being tried because the agency has more trash than it can handle at its 468 subway stations.

 

Some riders say it’s worth a shot.

 

Others just say it won’t work.

 

“You can’t break New Yorkers of habits that they’re into. If they’re pigs, they’re bigs. If they’re clean, they’re clean,” one native New Yorker told WCBS 880 reporter Mike Xirinachs.

 

Earlier this year, the MTA nixed the idea of banning food and drink in the subway.

 

Food is often blamed for attracting rats and other critters and litter from the food is blamed for causing fires.

 

The MTA carts some 90 tons of trash from the subway system each day.

Courtesy WCBS, AP (link)

 

This has bad idea written all over it. They think that by removing the trash bins, they'll reduce the amount of trash they're collecting? Let's be real for a second. They aren't going to save a dime. The few people who actually have the common courtesy to walk down the platform to throw out their garbage will be more likely to just throw it on the platform or the tracks instead, ultimately leading to more problems, which cost more money down the line. Besides, it's not like they're saving anything on labor. Workers are still getting paid by the hour and the garbage train still will run its normal rounds.

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It's interesting that PATH has this set up and they don't have garbage problems. Just goes to show what slobs some New Yorkers are that take the subway. You can put a garbage can every 5 feet on the platform and you'd still have slobs throwing their **** everywhere because they're raised by parents who are slobs as well. I see it all the time on the street. Kids just throwing their **** on the floor without a second thought. Sometimes I give them the look like you ******* slob to at least make them feel ashamed. :mad:

 

What they need to do is step up the enforcement on fining folks that litter. :tup::tup: AND make them clean up the subway as part of their punishment and then we'll see how quick they'd be to throw their crap on the floor. :mad:

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I actually do feel there shouldn't be any cans on the platform itself, just in the mezzanine area, kinda tired of rats jumping in and out of platform-based garbage storage system, but that's just my peeve.

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Guest lance25

@VG8:And therein lies the problem. Subway riders throw their trash all over the place because they can. As far as I know, PATH really enforces their no-trash policy. Without enforcement, any new rules NYC Transit enacts will be effectively laughed at.

 

Of course, it won't help if the (MTA) starts removing trash cans all over the place right now, since we all know that people aren't going to hold their garbage until they get out of the subway. If the agency really wants to tackle the trash problem, they need to enact new laws (whether that's a no eating policy or a no-trash policy is up to them), enforce said laws and when the trash levels decrease significantly, then they can start removing the bins. You can't start from the end and work your way back.

 

@TwoTimer: The problem is that the newsstands are on platform level. The folks who buy their munchies at said newsstands while waiting for the train sure as hell aren't going to walk back up-/downstairs to throw their crap out. Come to think of it, that's another potential problem with a food ban. You can't effectively ban food in the subway while you still have people selling food and drinks right in the subway system. But like I said to VG8, enforcement is key to ending the trash epidemic.

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@VG8:And therein lies the problem. Subway riders throw their trash all over the place because they can. As far as I know, PATH really enforces their no-trash policy. Without enforcement, any new rules NYC Transit enacts will be effectively laughed at.

 

Of course, it won't help if the (MTA) starts removing trash cans all over the place right now, since we all know that people aren't going to hold their garbage until they get out of the subway. If the agency really wants to tackle the trash problem, they need to enact new laws (whether that's a no eating policy or a no-trash policy is up to them), enforce said laws and when the trash levels decrease significantly, then they can start removing the bins. You can't start from the end and work your way back.

 

@TwoTimer: The problem is that the newsstands are on platform level. The folks who buy their munchies at said newsstands while waiting for the train sure as hell aren't going to walk back up-/downstairs to throw their crap out. Come to think of it, that's another potential problem with a food ban. You can't effectively ban food in the subway while you still have people selling food and drinks right in the subway system. But like I said to VG8, enforcement is key to ending the trash epidemic.

 

 

Well whatta ya know? We actually agree on something. :eek: No question about it, enforcement is the key.

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This is a bad idea. They must be thinking "Oh riders can take their trash outside the subway system after riding their train in a sidewalk trash can." If riders just for example just finished their food or drink, where are they supposed to dispose their trash, on the tracks? They might as well carry their trash with them as they ride and when they get off, they'll have to look for a trash can on the street and throw it away over there.

 

No one's going to want to carry their trash on them for long periods of time, so they might be tempted to throw their trash on the platforms, benches, or tracks.

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yea well PATH is like some 3rd world dictatorship with the amount of stupid rules and over-enforcement that goes on there.

 

I say keep the garbage cans, people need a place to conviently throw out their garbage or its going to be on the floor, on the tracks, or under the seats in the subway cars.

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I am not arguing for or against the MTA's actions with its trash cans at two subway stations that is the subject of an experiment right now.

 

One point that should be added to the discussion is one observed fact about urban areas and spaces that has been repeated several times - folks tend to keep clean places clean. Most folks don't "want" to be the one that "dirties" up a clean place or space. At the same time there is a kind of "tipping point" where if the amount of trash increases, folks sometimes feel less inhibited about adding to the trash that is already present.

 

This is one reason why many fast food places will have the workers repeatedly clean the tables or mop the floors. Not so much for health reasons, but that is spurs people to clean after themselves more often.

 

Now whether such an idea should be applied to such a huge place as a whole subway station is an open question. Another question is whether such a policy or experiment should be broadcasted while the experiment is underway. There is the another issue - which is the ability of the MTA to have cleaning teams, and rapid removal of trash and trash bins - that becomes a manpower issue - and manpower costs money these days.

 

This is an interesting debatable issue.

Mike

Edited by MikeGerald
Missing word

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Well whatta ya know? We actually agree on something. :eek: No question about it, enforcement is the key.

 

Enforcement on PATH is easy though since there are cameras everywhere and the PAPD is always there. Plus it helps that you don't have all the same skells that the subway has. No matter what you do, there will never be the same amount of enforcement on the subway because the system is so big. Even if you had one cop in every station, that's not enough had paying more cops for this is not worth it.

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If there are no trash cans on the platforms, then people will just throw trash onto the tracks. hat's how i see it.

 

This is a bad idea. They must be thinking "Oh riders can take their trash outside the subway system after riding their train in a sidewalk trash can." If riders just for example just finished their food or drink, where are they supposed to dispose their trash, on the tracks? They might as well carry their trash with them as they ride and when they get off, they'll have to look for a trash can on the street and throw it away over there.

 

No one's going to want to carry their trash on them for long periods of time, so they might be tempted to throw their trash on the platforms, benches, or tracks.

 

What I'm puzzled by is why is it that just across the river, PATH has the same policy and I don't see trash all over the PATH platforms? It certainly says something about some of the folks riding the NYC subways and I think the (MTA) needs to get tough on the slobs. Some of the folks don't have enough respect for the system that they use and they should be penalized for it for making it a mess for the rest of the riders that DO respect the system. If behavior can't be modified voluntarily then start fining these slobs $200.00 a pop and we'll see how quickly these folks get the message.

 

I would go further and make them also be forced to clean up some subways as part of their community service the way that we do w/graffiti. The problem is that these people think it's okay to leave their trash everywhere because they think there are folks dedicated to just cleaning up behind them and their mess. In fact I have heard folks say, well don't they have people to clean this up? Just because there are cleaners doesn't mean that you leave a mess for them to clean up. By having them have to clean stations themselves, they could then show some respect for the folks that have to clean up behind them because they would see what a pain in the *** their mess causes.

 

Sure rats will be around, but we can reduce their presence with less trash. If there is nothing to eat, surely their population will decrease over time. As for folks not wanting to keep their trash for long distances, there are plenty of us express bus riders that may have a drink or water or something and the majority of us take our stuff with us and we most certainly do go long distances too. It's a matter of being considerate of others and keeping the system clean for everyone. I for one do not like riding on dirty express buses so I am very careful to not leave any food or any mess if and when I do eat or drink something on the express bus. I don't even bother to eat on the subway because it is just too filthy for my liking, but on the express bus I'll have a bottle of water or make some orange juice or something healthy with a light snack like cashews or something that doesn't leave a mess everywhere. For a meal, there's something call eating at home and that's what I do.

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Guest lance25

Using that same argument Mike, if the (MTA) really wants people to stop littering in the subway, then they can't go around taking away all the garbage cans. Unless their new MO is to embrace the idea of garbage on the tracks and platforms, there needs to be places to put one's trash. When they ban food on the trains, platforms, etc. or enforce a littering ban, then they can remove the bins.

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Enforcement on PATH is easy though since there are cameras everywhere and the PAPD is always there. Plus it helps that you don't have all the same skells that the subway has. No matter what you do, there will never be the same amount of enforcement on the subway because the system is so big. Even if you had one cop in every station, that's not enough had paying more cops for this is not worth it.

 

I agree, but I think that progress can be made by doing random sweeps. If you increase the stakes high enough, it will deter some folks to take their trash with them and not leave it in the system. Keep increasing the fines and doing random busts until folks get it. Use the money to help with subway maintenance and such. I think it's a great idea. This would reduce the (MTA)'s cost for cleaners, generate some revenue for them and help keep fares for jumping astronomically for a little while anyway.

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What I'm puzzled by is why is it that just across the river, PATH has the same policy and I don't see trash all over the PATH platforms? It certainly says something about some of the folks riding the NYC subways and I think the (MTA) needs to get tough on the slobs. Some of the folks don't have enough respect for the system that they use and they should be penalized for it for making it a mess for the rest of the riders that DO respect the system. If behavior can't be modified voluntarily then start fining these slobs $200.00 a pop and we'll see how quickly these folks get the message.

 

 

 

That statement I highlighted, basically you're suggesting that it's okay for two times the higher penalty for littering for the rate that you're fare beating.

 

Now I'll get back to topic:

 

I do agree with you that they should penalize people for littering in the subway. Sure it's not fun riding dirty trains and buses and it's going to be a pain when there'll be less places to throw out your trash properly.

 

This is (MTA) New York thinking backwards: They don't want you to litter in the subway, yet they're taking away trash receptacles from station platforms.

 

Oh yeah I forgot, this is an experiment and if it doesn't go well, the trash bins will remain in place and as for the ones that have been removed, they'll be put back.

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That statement I highlighted, basically you're suggesting that it's okay for two times the higher penalty for littering for the rate that you're fare beating.

 

Now I'll get back to topic:

 

I do agree with you that they should penalize people for littering in the subway. Sure it's not fun riding dirty trains and buses and it's going to be a pain when there'll be less places to throw out your trash properly.

 

This is (MTA) New York thinking backwards: They don't want you to litter in the subway, yet they're taking away trash receptacles from station platforms.

 

Oh yeah I forgot, this is an experiment and if it doesn't go well, the trash bins will remain in place and as for the ones that have been removed, they'll be put back.

 

Yeah well for the record, I think fines for farebeating should be increased significantly to $300.00, so $200.00 for littering is just fine.

 

Back to topic ;):

 

 

The trains are filthy now and you have garbage cans everywhere, so what's the excuse now? You have too many slobs and they need to be dealt with via fines. This is one suggestion that I think they should go through with. The agency is strapped for cash and this is the second time now that they've thought about some sort of trash reduction plan. At the next hearing I plan to get up and speak and encourage them to come up with something like this or adapt it with some tweaks. The subway is NOT a restaurant and folks need to get it. If you eat, don't leave a mess everywhere. Take your crap and put it in a bag and carry it with you until you find a trash can. I do it all the time (carrying my water bottles or whatever with me and disposing of them accordingly) and it can certainly be done.

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This is a bad idea. They must be thinking "Oh riders can take their trash outside the subway system after riding their train in a sidewalk trash can." If riders just for example just finished their food or drink, where are they supposed to dispose their trash, on the tracks? They might as well carry their trash with them as they ride and when they get off, they'll have to look for a trash can on the street and throw it away over there.

 

No one's going to want to carry their trash on them for long periods of time, so they might be tempted to throw their trash on the platforms, benches, or tracks.

 

Well... I blame those who love to litter everywhere for this. I pass around the subway station all the time and even the sidewalk, people are near a bin and some people ends up littering anywhere.

 

If we were to get a ban on garbage (which wouldn't be cool) then we blame the ones who don't like to litter right, not the MTA. Its easy if you need to trash your garbage.. HOLD on to it or find a nearby trash receptacle! Thats all!

 

Then there are people saying our system is always dirty. Well its not all about the Station Cleaners doing the job, it's about PEOPLE learning to trash it properly!

 

I'm pretty sure this program is gonna fail, besides trashing the roadbed or platform, the train will also become a garbage waste land.

 

This also applies to buses which a lot of routes are filthy with junk and even gum sticking to the seats etc.

Edited by mark1447

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Yeah well for the record, I think fines for farebeating should be increased significantly to $300.00, so $200.00 for littering is just fine.

 

Back to topic ;):

 

 

The trains are filthy now and you have garbage cans everywhere, so what's the excuse now? You have too many slobs and they need to be dealt with via fines. This is one suggestion that I think they should go through with. The agency is strapped for cash and this is the second time now that they've thought about some sort of trash reduction plan. At the next hearing I plan to get up and speak and encourage them to come up with something like this or adapt it with some tweaks. The subway is NOT a restaurant and folks need to get it. If you eat, don't leave a mess everywhere. Take your crap and put it in a bag and carry it with you until you find a trash can. I do it all the time (carrying my water bottles or whatever with me and disposing of them accordingly) and it can certainly be done.

 

Your ideas are good, kinda wish everyone had the courtesy to take their trash out when they're done. Too bad some just don't see it as you do. I agree with your above statements though.

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they need too stop letting people bring food on it anyway. people dont know how to be responsible and throw the trash out they put it anywhere and everywhere its nasty and i hate it, i feel the MTA should go harder on enforcing this. they should treat people like kids if you dont take care of what you have than they should take it away from them all together., its sad that the path and other places like MBTA have a no eating rule and theres no trash anywhere to be found at all so why cant they do that here?

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INterstingly, I just read in the Times that the (MTA) is also trying out a program to put more recycling cans in the subway to make the system greener (though it is unlikley to become a common sight, since it is often cheaper to just put everythgin in a landfill or incinerator). One step forward, two steps back.

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PATH is like some 3rd world dictatorship with the amount of stupid rules and over-enforcement that goes on there.

 

 

You hit the nail right on the head.

And concerning NYCT, the worst thing they could do is REMOVE trash cans from the system. At this rate, whose to say that the MTA, in its infinite wisdom (*cough*sarcasm*cough*), won't start considering getting rid of the R-127/134 garbage motors?;)

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Are they serious??

 

Plain and simple... if I just finished a gyro and have the bag, wrapper, napkins, fork, and soda can, I'm getting rid of it there whether it be in a garbage can or on the tracks. No way I'm giving up my seat to throw that out at the next station and I'm certainly not going to carry it for 30+ minutes home. If anything I might put it under the seat and "accidentally" forget it was there.

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They actually took the cans out in an effort to curb the mice from the platforms, you see those little critters just about all over, I didn't notice they took the trash cans out of the (7) Main Street-Flushing station after I refilled my MetroCard and read the Metro on the Q27

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I might sound crazy for this, but I actually hold onto garbage until I find a can or bin. The subway would look much better if people weren't slobs.

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