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Mayor aboard subway to NJ: Supports No. 7 extension to Secaucus


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Actually an extension of the (7)<7> to NJ won't turn the (7) line into a railroad. It would turn the (7) into something like the PATH. Not a railroad, but an inter-state rapid transit line.

 

PATH is a Railroad, trust me, Its more like a Railroad operated system that uses subway car type trains, if it was a rapid transit type subway u wouldn't be doing close to 70 MPH btwn JSQ and NWK

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If the (7) goes to NJ, its no longer called a subway, It would Be Called a Railroad similar to PATH, That alone would cost a lot of money, The R188's would have to be retrofitted with FRA Equipment and Etc, to me its a Big F&*king Waste and the Mayor needs to get his head checked.

 

PATH is a Railroad, trust me, Its more like a Railroad operated system that uses subway car type trains, if it was a rapid transit type subway u wouldn't be doing close to 70 MPH btwn JSQ and NWK

 

I am sorry, but as all sources quote PATH isn't a railroad.

 

PATH service today is not technically a railroad. It ONCE was a railroad service owned by H&M (Hudson and Manhattan Railroad) running as an interstate-service. Ran on RR equipment too. It does run on a Railroad ROW all over. The equipment used today don't make it a RR much . It follows under FRA since there is still a connection between the NEC (and i think CSX/NS at JSQ).

 

You can tell if it were a RR or not by checking out the Catenary poles after JSQ heading west.

 

If all of the connections with the RR were removed, then you can call it an Interstate-Subway like service. But pretty much the PATH is semi now. Service today runs it with subway like cars along a RR Row. Just like the SIR.

 

Heres some more...........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Authority_Trans-Hudson

http://gothamist.com/2008/02/25/a_century_of_th.php

 

The SIRTOA IS technically a railroad but operated with Subway cars(Even tho REAL RR equipment would be better). The only RR equipment they have are the BL20G.

 

If the (7) is sent to NJ, That doesn't mean it I'll become a Railroad. Only way it could fall into the railroad category, is if it were to connect with the national RR system.

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1) Oh don't even try it. Overcrowded classrooms and Student MetroCards are two totally different topics and I'm standing my ground. NO Student MetroCards. :mad: :(

 

2) That's a ridiculous statement to make. You've got kids doing terribly in school and one of the main reasons is that kids are being given enough attention in the school from the teachers because classes are too big. Consider yourself lucky that your class isn't over capacity because some schools are so overfilled to the point that they are having classes in the gym or kids are overflowing into the hallways. There is no way that a kid can learn like that and your inconsideration of their situation is quite disturbing. :tdown: We're talking about little kids here who are at their most vulnerable states in terms of learning.

 

3) Well now that's a relief. :(

 

1) No, because they both have an impact on the child's education. Who cares what the size of the class is if you can't get to school (or a decent school) in the first place?

 

2) And what makes you the expert in what causes kids to do poorly in school? How do you know they aren't goofing off?

 

And like I said, even if it affected me I wouldn't care how crowded the classroom is. I know all of the material anyway. I don't need a teacher showing me the material: I can find it out by myself (if I don't already know the material). Just hand me a textbook and I'm good to go.

 

Ever since I was a little kid I was advanced for my age, so I'd have no problems whatsoever.

 

Plus, my dad had 40 kids crammed into his class in middle school and he still managed to learn enough to skip the 8th grade and turn out fine.

 

3) Whatever...

 

You know that I want tax dollars to go where they are most needed. Police and firemen are needed. Teachers instructing students who already know the material aren't.

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1) No, because they both have an impact on the child's education. Who cares what the size of the class is if you can't get to school (or a decent school) in the first place?

 

We've had this conversation before and I still stand by what I said then. Kids are ZONED to certain schools so they can go to their zoned school. If they WANT to go to a school outside of their area then fine. Let the parents pay for the transportation. If their zoned school isn't good enough then the DOE should improve those schools. A kid should not be traveling an hour or more to get to some other school because their zoned school is too dangerous. That is a waste of taxpayer money. It would be cheaper to fix the school than pay for all of those MetroCards, so like I said, get rid of them.

 

2) And what makes you the expert in what causes kids to do poorly in school? How do you know they aren't goofing off?

 

First off it's commonsense. Second I've taught for years as an instructor so I think I should have a clue on this topic. There is no way that a teacher can help kids learn when they have 30+ students in a class. The more students there are, the less time there is to see who is having problems and who is excelling. I taught adults for years and I had classes where we have folks that were advanced and folks that couldn't catch on as quickly and when you have a bunch of students at different levels or better yet, you can't determine who is where because there are so many students, it makes teaching the class that much more challenging because you can see who needs help where and how you can teach the class so as to help these students keep up while not making the class boring for the others.

 

And like I said, even if it affected me I wouldn't care how crowded the classroom is. I know all of the material anyway. I don't need a teacher showing me the material: I can find it out by myself (if I don't already know the material). Just hand me a textbook and I'm good to go.

 

Ever since I was a little kid I was advanced for my age, so I'd have no problems whatsoever.

 

Plus, my dad had 40 kids crammed into his class in middle school and he still managed to learn enough to skip the 8th grade and turn out fine.

 

Oh please... You're comparing yourself and your father to thousands of other kids in the school system, some of which have learning disabilities and so on which is simply unfair and inconsiderate.

 

3) Whatever...

 

You know that I want tax dollars to go where they are most needed. Police and firemen are needed. Teachers instructing students who already know the material aren't.

 

Well if you know everything, why bother going to class? You should be taught at home. I have yet to meet a student that knows everything. Even me as a teacher, I always learned something while I was teaching. You sound quite arrogant with that statement. Advanced or not, you DO NOT know everything.

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If they extend the (7) to Seracus, then Porth Authority mind as well make plans to make that whole stretch from 34th St to Grand Central (or even Couth Square) part of the PATH. Would'nt it be something for the R188's to have that PATH color scheme

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1) We've had this conversation before and I still stand by what I said then. Kids are ZONED to certain schools so they can go to their zoned school. If they WANT to go to a school outside of their area then fine. Let the parents pay for the transportation. If their zoned school isn't good enough then the DOE should improve those schools. A kid should not be traveling an hour or more to get to some other school because their zoned school is too dangerous. That is a waste of taxpayer money. It would be cheaper to fix the school than pay for all of those MetroCards, so like I said, get rid of them.

 

2) First off it's commonsense. Second I've taught for years as an instructor so I think I should have a clue on this topic. There is no way that a teacher can help kids learn when they have 30+ students in a class. The more students there are, the less time there is to see who is having problems and who is excelling. I taught adults for years and I had classes where we have folks that were advanced and folks that couldn't catch on as quickly and when you have a bunch of students at different levels or better yet, you can't determine who is where because there are so many students, it makes teaching the class that much more challenging because you can see who needs help where and how you can teach the class so as to help these students keep up while not making the class boring for the others.

 

3) Oh please... You're comparing yourself and your father to thousands of other kids in the school system, some of which have learning disabilities and so on which is simply unfair and inconsiderate.

 

4) Well if you know everything, why bother going to class? You should be taught at home. I have yet to meet a student that knows everything. Even me as a teacher, I always learned something while I was teaching. You sound quite arrogant with that statement. Advanced or not, you DO NOT know everything.

 

1) First of all, the zoned school isn't necessarily the closest school. Students in Arlington are zoned for I.S.72 in Heartland Village when they are closer to I.S. 51 in Westerleigh. Students in West Brighton are zoned for Susan Wagner HS when they are closer to Port Richmond.

 

Second of all, even if it is the closest school, that doesn't mean that it is within an easy walking distance. In the above example, Arlington is still a good distance from I.S. 51, and West Brighton is still a good distance from Port Richmond HS.

 

And like I said (and you repeatedly ignore), I am going to my zoned school and it is a 45 minute walk from home (the sad part is that there are days when it's taken 45 minutes by transit but I digress). There is no public school closer than Port Richmond.

 

2) Well in that case, my classes all have 34 students so they are overcrowded if we use your standards.

 

And this is why they have honors classes and regular classes, so the students are at least grouped somewhat according to their abilities. Most of the people in my classes score 80+ in that class (and have an 85+ average overall)

 

3) Yeah, some have learning disabilities, but not all of them. If somebody is in special ed, then yeah it's fine to have 10 kids in a class and 3 teachers for them.

 

4) When did I say I knew everything? I said I'm capable of learning on my own, especially considering the fact that my parents are both intelligent people, so in the rare case that I'm having trouble with a subject, they can help me.

 

I it doesn't matter if I know everything: As long as I have sufficient knowledge to get a high school diploma. I've actually considered taking the GED but they made it too difficult by saying that I have to register in a special program and I have to drop out if I take it, which would pose problems because my school would be a PITA about it.

 

I've also considered going to Peru, where you can get a high school diploma at 16, but again, there would be difficulties there as well. I also looked at an online school, but they were no better than the public school because they didn't let me advance (even though the standards say that I am allowed to be advanced and yet they refuse to do so)

 

Like I said, you tell me why I had to sit in a foreign language class when I'm a native-born Spanish speaker? A teacher showed me a peek of my permenant record and it said I was an ELL (English Language Learner). Considering the school has a record of me being born in Peru, why did I have to take a foreign language class? Maybe I don't know everything about Spanish, but I sure as hell know enough to pass high school (especially considering how easy they made those Regents when they had them)

 

And I'm sitting in a Precalculus class when I should be taking Calculus. You know why I'm not taking Calculus? Because I'm a junior. Last year, I was taking Algebra II and was one of the top students in the class (I think I had a 97 or something, so I was definitely in the top 5). They said that if you had a high enough average, you could go straight into Calculus if you were a junior.

 

My grades were higher than those of virtually all the juniors (and I slept through that class as well. The teacher literally told me to wake up on several occasions), and yet I wasn't allowed to take Calculus because of my age.

 

So it's alright to waste money on those classes, but it's not alright to give me a Student MetroCard. Is that right? Alright, take away my Student MetroCard and make me walk to class. Considering it's a 45 minute walk, I'll probably show up late and fail my first period class despite knowing the material (which will cost you taxpayers more money to have me take the class over), and I won't attend any extracurricular activities.

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PATH is a Railroad, trust me, Its more like a Railroad operated system that uses subway car type trains, if it was a rapid transit type subway u wouldn't be doing close to 70 MPH btwn JSQ and NWK

 

Just clarifying PATH goes NOWHERE near 70 mph between Harrison and JSQ or vice versa. Maximum speed is closer to the NYCS speed of 56-57 mph. And that's on the downgrade after the drawbridge heading towards Newark. PA-5 stock is designed to run at a maximum speed of 55 mph.

 

As for this extension of the 7 into Jersey, unless they find a way to run frequent, and I mean FREQUENT service from Secaucus to the city, then it's just a waste of money and won't accomplish anything for the transportation system in the region as a whole. Both Gateway and the cancelled ARC proposals are better long term options for easing congestion.

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1) First of all, the zoned school isn't necessarily the closest school. Students in Arlington are zoned for I.S.72 in Heartland Village when they are closer to I.S. 51 in Westerleigh. Students in West Brighton are zoned for Susan Wagner HS when they are closer to Port Richmond.

 

Second of all, even if it is the closest school, that doesn't mean that it is within an easy walking distance. In the above example, Arlington is still a good distance from I.S. 51, and West Brighton is still a good distance from Port Richmond HS.

 

And like I said (and you repeatedly ignore), I am going to my zoned school and it is a 45 minute walk from home (the sad part is that there are days when it's taken 45 minutes by transit but I digress). There is no public school closer than Port Richmond.

 

Okay, so it's okay to give out Student MetroCards so that kids can hang out and abuse them (and yes they are abused) on the taxpayers' dime because some kids have a far commute even in their zoned school, but it's not okay to have school bus service for for kids that have a far commute, even in their zoned school, is that right?

 

I'm sorry but I still disagree for the simple reason that we can't afford it. Let the parents pay for the transportation. Kids are still getting a public education for free and I think that's good enough.

 

That monies could be used to keep cops from being cut or firefighters from being cut, something that we most certainly need.

 

I also have a problem with single working professionals being overtaxed so that big families can reap the benefits of an uneven, unfair tax system. If a family has say 4-5 kids and all of them get MetroCards, I mean really, that's friggin expensive and the taxpayer should not have to pay for that especially when they're getting a free education.

 

2) Well in that case, my classes all have 34 students so they are overcrowded if we use your standards.

 

And this is why they have honors classes and regular classes, so the students are at least grouped somewhat according to their abilities. Most of the people in my classes score 80+ in that class (and have an 85+ average overall)

 

That is most certainly overcrowded. None of my regular classes were that crowded in junior high school (I.S. 43) or high school (Sheepshead Bay H.S.). Gym class was large of course, but still not overcrowded. As for your other comments about there being honors classes and regular classes, that doesn't mean anything because scheduling conflicts can occur. In my case, I could not take Economics (Honors) because I had A.P. Gov't at the same time, so I had to take the regular Economics class.

 

3) Yeah, some have learning disabilities, but not all of them. If somebody is in special ed, then yeah it's fine to have 10 kids in a class and 3 teachers for them.

 

Not even about fine. It's necessary for them to be in small classes so that they get the attention that they need.

 

 

4) When did I say I knew everything? I said I'm capable of learning on my own, especially considering the fact that my parents are both intelligent people, so in the rare case that I'm having trouble with a subject, they can help me.

 

 

I it doesn't matter if I know everything: As long as I have sufficient knowledge to get a high school diploma. I've actually considered taking the GED but they made it too difficult by saying that I have to register in a special program and I have to drop out if I take it, which would pose problems because my school would be a PITA about it.

 

I've also considered going to Peru, where you can get a high school diploma at 16, but again, there would be difficulties there as well. I also looked at an online school, but they were no better than the public school because they didn't let me advance (even though the standards say that I am allowed to be advanced and yet they refuse to do so)

 

Like I said, you tell me why I had to sit in a foreign language class when I'm a native-born Spanish speaker? A teacher showed me a peek of my permenant record and it said I was an ELL (English Language Learner). Considering the school has a record of me being born in Peru, why did I have to take a foreign language class? Maybe I don't know everything about Spanish, but I sure as hell know enough to pass high school (especially considering how easy they made those Regents when they had them)

 

And I'm sitting in a Precalculus class when I should be taking Calculus. You know why I'm not taking Calculus? Because I'm a junior. Last year, I was taking Algebra II and was one of the top students in the class (I think I had a 97 or something, so I was definitely in the top 5). They said that if you had a high enough average, you could go straight into Calculus if you were a junior.

 

My grades were higher than those of virtually all the juniors (and I slept through that class as well. The teacher literally told me to wake up on several occasions), and yet I wasn't allowed to take Calculus because of my age.

 

So it's alright to waste money on those classes, but it's not alright to give me a Student MetroCard. Is that right? Alright, take away my Student MetroCard and make me walk to class. Considering it's a 45 minute walk, I'll probably show up late and fail my first period class despite knowing the material (which will cost you taxpayers more money to have me take the class over), and I won't attend any extracurricular activities.

 

 

You're implying it by talking about how you don't need to take this and take that, as if you're so advanced in everything. And clearly, you're smart, but you don't get it at all. LEARNING is not all about passing tests and getting a degree. There's a reason you go to school and it's not just to pass a friggin' test. It's to teach you other things in ADDITION to passing tests. That's what you don't get.

 

I also find it quite disrespectful and rude for you to sleep in class, especially since I used to be a teacher. Nothing drives a teacher more crazy than folks who out talk them and sleep. I never had anyone sleep on me because I would embarass them. When I have someone talk over me, I stop the class and then I make a point to wait until whoever is speaking stops and then I address them in front of everyone, because I'm not going to get into a shouting match trying to teach. When I'm speaking no one else speaks and anyone who couldn't follow my rules could leave. Of course it's different because I taught adults but still.

 

So you know the material, okay fine, but to sleep in class while that teacher is up there trying to teach you something is so disrespectful and that's why he keeps telling you to wake up. You're basically giving him the middle finger and telling him that what he has to say doesn't matter.

 

Your MetroCard is so important, yet it's okay for you to use it to sleep in class? Seems like a waste to me. You constantly mention your extracurricular activities, as if they're more important than you getting to and from school. That should be your priority not extacurricular activities. That's the problem with these kids. They don't know what their priorities are.

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Instead of wasting money on this, spend it on something else..

 

Amtrak is already getting ready to build its Gateway tunnel along the NEC which will allow more NJT/Amtrak trains to get in and out of the city and Jersey.

 

Instead I would rather extend the (7) somewhere south of Manhattan to allow people from Chelsea and the Village have a ride somewhere else along the (7). Maybe even to 14th Street to connect with the (L). The (7) is a SUBWAY of the NYCTA system, not a commuter / interstate service. People in Jersey already got PATH doing all the work. Whats next? Extend the (7) to Newark......................? Or even worry about the rest of the 2nd Avenue Subway, which who knows if It ill be done by 2016 around. OR something else, if this money is for NJ/NY.

 

Don't forget social problems between NY and NJ.. Who knows if some people from Jersey dislike people from New York coming to there area.. You can go from the hood all the way to Jersey without paying extra.. At least Union City..

 

It also sucks how the media did not mention anything about the Amtrak Gateway tunnel to the public..

 

I disagree with you on this.

 

Having people from NJ pay for something from NY will automatically bring money into the city, which bloombucks loves, cause he's a money hungry ***, I'm jewish myself so dont bother me! B)

 

Another thing, if people from jersey have problems with us New Yorkers then let them take NJT for all I care. people from jersey need to get to the city & I think they will be more than happy to have a subway other than PATH to get them to the city rather than using a commuter railroad, which cost more & takes longer.

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Staten Island, the far tip of Eastern and Western Bronx, the 3rd Avenue area of the Bronx, the East Side, and the far West Side of Manhattan, the far East Side of Queens, Utica Avenue, the southern end of Nostrand Avenue, the area of Dyker Heights, and Central Queens/Northern Brooklyn doesn't have any subway service and we are already headed for NJ? Something is wrong here.

 

BINGO!:tup:

 

SI needs the North Shore SIR resurrected, a West Shore Lightrail, & rail connection to Bayonne.

 

 

I do like the idea of the 7 going to/from Secaucus, but the money spent on such a venture would be better spent bringing the North Shore SIR back to life.

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I disagree with you on this.

 

Having people from NJ pay for something from NY will automatically bring money into the city, which bloombucks loves, cause he's a money hungry ***, I'm jewish myself so dont bother me! B)

 

Another thing, if people from jersey have problems with us New Yorkers then let them take NJT for all I care. people from jersey need to get to the city & I think they will be more than happy to have a subway other than PATH to get them to the city rather than using a commuter railroad, which cost more & takes longer.

 

I dont even think the city will make money, both NY / NJ would have to earn money, especially since the (7) would be in Jersey sides.

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... it's a perfect idea and a fine example of the clarity of Bloomberg's vision. Frankly, I'm rather surprised at any opposition to doing this. The timing couldn't be better, and with the cost of mobilization for a couple of Tunnel Boring Machines, I would think that sane taxpayers and ratepayers would jump at the chance of getting so much bang for the buck.

 

Anyone who can read a transit map can see that the purpose of 80% of NJTransit train system is to pump commuters into and out of Manhattan on a daily basis, and even the smallest understanding of how that works reveals that the 250,000 daily commuters don't work within walking distance of Penn Station. They leave there in pursuit of other subway lines to finish their journey. And the (7) train is the best cross-town connection, not only to all of the Manhattan trunk lines, but to Grand Central as well. So the region gets ALL of the benefit of the now ceased ARC project, plus east side access, without having to build the equivalent of Trump Tower under midtown Manhattan. This project not only represents a savings to ratepayers and taxpayers of BILLIONS of dollars, it does it faster, more efficiently and much, much cheaper than might have been imagined.

 

And all of the opposition to doing this that I have read on this forum seems rather petty and provincial.

 

The (7) to Lautenberg Station is a win-win-win-win proposition, and every thinking, rate-paying and taxpaying citizen should get behind it.

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1) Okay, so it's okay to give out Student MetroCards so that kids can hang out and abuse them (and yes they are abused) on the taxpayers' dime because some kids have a far commute even in their zoned school, but it's not okay to have school bus service for for kids that have a far commute, even in their zoned school, is that right?

 

I'm sorry but I still disagree for the simple reason that we can't afford it. Let the parents pay for the transportation. Kids are still getting a public education for free and I think that's good enough.

 

That monies could be used to keep cops from being cut or firefighters from being cut, something that we most certainly need.

 

I also have a problem with single working professionals being overtaxed so that big families can reap the benefits of an uneven, unfair tax system. If a family has say 4-5 kids and all of them get MetroCards, I mean really, that's friggin expensive and the taxpayer should not have to pay for that especially when they're getting a free education.

 

2) That is most certainly overcrowded. None of my regular classes were that crowded in junior high school (I.S. 43) or high school (Sheepshead Bay H.S.). Gym class was large of course, but still not overcrowded. As for your other comments about there being honors classes and regular classes, that doesn't mean anything because scheduling conflicts can occur. In my case, I could not take Economics (Honors) because I had A.P. Gov't at the same time, so I had to take the regular Economics class.

 

3) Not even about fine. It's necessary for them to be in small classes so that they get the attention that they need.

 

4) You're implying it by talking about how you don't need to take this and take that, as if you're so advanced in everything. And clearly, you're smart, but you don't get it at all. LEARNING is not all about passing tests and getting a degree. There's a reason you go to school and it's not just to pass a friggin' test. It's to teach you other things in ADDITION to passing tests. That's what you don't get.

 

I also find it quite disrespectful and rude for you to sleep in class, especially since I used to be a teacher. Nothing drives a teacher more crazy than folks who out talk them and sleep. I never had anyone sleep on me because I would embarass them. When I have someone talk over me, I stop the class and then I make a point to wait until whoever is speaking stops and then I address them in front of everyone, because I'm not going to get into a shouting match trying to teach. When I'm speaking no one else speaks and anyone who couldn't follow my rules could leave. Of course it's different because I taught adults but still.

 

So you know the material, okay fine, but to sleep in class while that teacher is up there trying to teach you something is so disrespectful and that's why he keeps telling you to wake up. You're basically giving him the middle finger and telling him that what he has to say doesn't matter.

 

Your MetroCard is so important, yet it's okay for you to use it to sleep in class? Seems like a waste to me. You constantly mention your extracurricular activities, as if they're more important than you getting to and from school. That should be your priority not extacurricular activities. That's the problem with these kids. They don't know what their priorities are.

 

1) But they're receiving Student MetroCards. Therefore, they have transportation to school. The fact that it takes a long time is a call for more direct bus service on the South Shore (at least during school times), not for school buses.

 

And I bet now that you realize that people in Arlington had their school bus service taken away, you don't care about the school busees either.

 

2) I was jumping for joy at the beginning of the year when my classes had 36 or 37 students (and were legally overcrowded). In fact my music class has around 38 students but they made an exception because it's band (the teacher said she usually has around 50)

 

Besides, you know how I love crowds. I was jumping for joy Tuesday afternoon when the S44 had a bunch of kids crammed in the back of the bus, and also this Friday when there were actually people standing in the back on the S96 (usually the driver just flags everybody, but it was a different driver today. :tup: )

 

34 students isn't overcrowded because the state says it isn't overcrowded. Period and end of story.

 

And believe me, at my school they're really strict about people getting put into the correct classes. Some of the classes have an AP version, so you might get forced out of AP and placed into Honors, but you're not going to get forced out of Honors and put into a regular class.

 

3) I never denied that but whatever...

 

4) Yeah, and what exactly are they teaching me? This isn't kindergarden when they teach you things like sharing and getting along with others in addition to whatever math and reading skills they show you.

 

As far as sleeping goes, that's why I pick a corner seat. Not only is it (generally) out of view of the teacher, but it saves the prime seats for the people who need them.

 

And yeah, the teacher has called me out. Didn't phase me one bit. I always joke around with my friends afterwards. Hell, my teacher has even joked around with me afterwards (the class where I did it most was Biology/Chemistry, both with the same teacher).

 

As far as your last comment, you just love to misinterpret everything I say. I don't sleep in all classes, just the ones where I know all of the material. I never slept in a History class because all 3 teachers (3 years) made it interesting. Plus, I like history but don't have the full understanding that I have of my math and science classes.

 

So if you take out the classes I sleep in, you still have classes that I'm still using my Student MetroCard for. (And I'm not sleeping out of disrespect. I'm sleeping because I don't get enough sleep at home)

 

Plus, you're not paying for me to take a class (and sleep in it). You're paying for me to meet the requirements for a high school diploma (which are supposedly enough to make me well-rounded). The fact that the taxpayers choose to do it the expensive way (by having me sit in a class) instead of the cheap way (by having me test out of the class) is what you should be protesting, not the fact that I have a Student MetroCard.

 

And just so you can't misinterpret what I'm saying, I'm only referring to the classes where I have a full understanding of the subject on my own (no teacher's assistance)

 

BINGO!:tup:

 

SI needs the North Shore SIR resurrected, a West Shore Lightrail, & rail connection to Bayonne.

 

I do like the idea of the 7 going to/from Secaucus, but the money spent on such a venture would be better spent bringing the North Shore SIR back to life.

 

There's probably some mandate that it has to be used for a NY-NJ connection, so the West Shore Light Rail would be a better use of this money (since it would go right back to the federal government otherwise)

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The 7 to Lautenberg Station is a win-win-win-win proposition, and every thinking, rate-paying and taxpaying citizen should get behind it.

 

yah, sure....

 

...because the current riders of the 7 would love later arriving, on top of more crowded trains (than how it is currently).... call it territorial (or in your words, provincial) if you'd like... as if riders of a particular subway line wouldn't be concerned about something like that.... You tell me how in the hell this extension is a "win win win win" for a Queens commuter that's goin no further than Manhattan - which defines the vast majority of 7 train riders, mind you.....

 

The LAST thing ANY NYC taxpayer should be thinking about, is a subway extension to another state - When our current subway network is incomplete (and whatever other flaws people wanna constantly bring up about the NYC Subway)...

 

I'll say this as many times as I have to.... this extension benefits NJ commuters a hell of a lot more than it would any NY commuter.

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yah, sure....

 

...because the current riders of the 7 would love later arriving, on top of more crowded trains (than how it is currently).... call it territorial (or in your words, provincial) if you'd like... as if riders of a particular subway line wouldn't be concerned about something like that.... You tell me how in the hell this extension is a "win win win win" for a Queens commuter that's goin no further than Manhattan - which defines the vast majority of 7 train riders, mind you.....

 

The LAST thing ANY NYC taxpayer should be thinking about, is a subway extension to another state - When our current subway network is incomplete (and whatever other flaws people wanna constantly bring up about the NYC Subway)...

 

I'll say this as many times as I have to.... this extension benefits NJ commuters a hell of a lot more than it would any NY commuter.

 

 

Agreed bro. Unless either NJ residents or the Feds or both are paying almost all of the costs of extending the (7) to Seacucus, NYC taxpayers should pay nothing.

 

If that case then Amtrak should just a new 2-tunnel track themselves between NYC and NJ and pay for themselves. Then give the existing 100-plus year tubes to NJ transit.

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Just clarifying PATH goes NOWHERE near 70 mph between Harrison and JSQ or vice versa. Maximum speed is closer to the NYCS speed of 56-57 mph. And that's on the downgrade after the drawbridge heading towards Newark. PA-5 stock is designed to run at a maximum speed of 55 mph.

 

And save for a few rare instances only possible with specific trains on specific sections of track with specific people operating the trains, NYC Subway trains almost never exceed 50MPH.

 

The regular running speeds are typically 30-40MPH. PATH runs at consistently higher speeds than that. NYCT trains have their "moments" but PATH has a much noticeably faster average operating speed so it can't be likened to Transit.

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yah, sure....

 

...because the current riders of the 7 would love later arriving, on top of more crowded trains (than how it is currently).... call it territorial (or in your words, provincial) if you'd like... as if riders of a particular subway line wouldn't be concerned about something like that.... You tell me how in the hell this extension is a "win win win win" for a Queens commuter that's goin no further than Manhattan - which defines the vast majority of 7 train riders, mind you.....

 

The LAST thing ANY NYC taxpayer should be thinking about, is a subway extension to another state - When our current subway network is incomplete (and whatever other flaws people wanna constantly bring up about the NYC Subway)...

 

I'll say this as many times as I have to.... this extension benefits NJ commuters a hell of a lot more than it would any NY commuter.

Well ... what can I say B35? Thanks for illustrating my point? Your argument, or what there is of it, is a perfect example of what is both petty AND provincial about all of the opposition to the (7) running under the Hudson.

 

First of all, they are two different commutes. One is East to West, the other West to East. What that means is that they have zero effect on overcrowding. Even at times other than morning and evening rush hours, they have no impact whatsoever. What you're suggesting is the equivalent of Brooklyn (2) train riders complaining about the fact that after it drops them off in Manhattan, the train goes on to the Bronx. Who cares? What's the difference? If overcrowding were really your concern, then you wouldn't want the (7) going further East, because then it would be already full when you got on it in the morning, and more commuters would be jamming it up at night. And as for "arriving later", it's the same nonsense. When it arrives is a scheduling issue, and has nothing to do with the train going to New Jersey.

 

And how does it help folks in Queens? Well, for one thing, if they happen to be flying into or out of Newark Airport it's a FANTASTIC improvement. And are you suggesting that there are no Jets or Giants fans out in Queens who would benefit enormously by getting to and from Secaucus both faster and cheaper? Have you even thought this through at all?

 

No my friend, the fact is that EVERYONE benefits - win-win-win-win - because the people in New Jersey are going to commute into New York City whether you like it or not. They work here, they pay taxes here, they shop here, they spend a ton of money on restaurants, clubs, bars, plays, musicals, museums and other cultural events here, and making it easier, cheaper and cleaner for them to get here DOES benefit the people of Queens.

 

The right questions to ask are: Will there be less auto traffic in the city because less Jersey commuters decided to jam the streets, tunnels and bridges? Yes. Will there be less fossil fuel consumption and air pollution? Yes. Will the MTA run more profitably by running full-fare trains for the two or three extra stops in the other direction? Most decidedly Yes.

 

As regards the fact that it's called the "New York City Subway" system, it will not cease to be that by running a train to Lautenberg Station. In fact, if anything, the MTA should subsume the entire PATH System, annex that to the SIR, and run the whole thing as an FRA division. Here again, after the planned resumption of service on the North Branch of the SIR, the shortest distance - in time, in money, in infrastructure - to connecting Staten Island to the city via subway, is to run it through New Jersey.

 

That's why the fifth borough has never been connected by subway - MONEY !!! Well, subsuming the PATH into the MTA could connect Staten Island to the rest of the boroughs for BILLIONS OF DOLLARS LESS than running two tunnels across the Narrows. AND it could be done in less than a decade, instead of waiting another two generations.

 

We cannot afford petty and provincial thinking. It's just too expensive, in both time and money, to think in those severely limiting ways. It's time to think outside the box ...

 

... or in this case, outside the State.

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