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Mayor aboard subway to NJ: Supports No. 7 extension to Secaucus

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Is this infactuation of extending the train to NJ new within the last few years?

I don't know but its rather strange after bashing us for decades....aside from trade and some economic issues the 2 states need to work on separate plans that benefit each state as a whole....

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You'd think that with the whole Sandy fiasco with NJT, that we'd learn to stop placing critical transit infrastructure in a swamp. I guess we haven't learned our lesson yet.

 

When Hudson and Bergen County start paying the dedicated MTA taxes that we do, we can talk about operating service to New Jersey. (Paying for construction on the MTA's part, if it really has to, should only be as far as the West Side Highway and no farther.)

 

 

Bloomberg wants to give the Hudson Yards developers more money, in a nutshell.

 

We elevated our substations , the Gateway Project will upgrade the rest of the network , the Interchanges , Tunnels , and Bridges will be replaced and made resilient to Storm surges and winds.   I doubt people in NJ would want to pay MTA taxes that will not go over well , we can't even raise our gas tax for NJT or General Transportation.   I agree with you that bloomberg is padding the Hudson Yard developers , Amtrak recommended that the 7 be extended into Penn Station South which is only a few thousand feet from the end of the line...the Gateway would take care of the rest. 

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The federal government, and by extension the FRA, is automatically in charge of regulating anything that crosses a state line, and a Maryland senator was agitating to put all transit agencies in the United States under either FRA or FTA oversight, regardless of whether or not it crossed state lines. Just because they're trying to rein NYCT In doesn't mean we need to make their lives any easier.

 

Honestly, the Bronx, Queens, and Brooklyn need subway service more than a marsh in New Jersey does. It takes me 2 hours to commute to the city from Eastern Queens, and before we do anything about a interstate subway line, we should fix the commutes of city residents who pay taxes and vote these politicians into power in the first place. Bloomberg's just a developer's shill trying to boost the value of Hudson Yards office space by connecting it to New Jersey.

Or reduce the cost of using the LIRR from eastern queens to NYC so more people opt to use it.

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The federal government, and by extension the FRA, is automatically in charge of regulating anything that crosses a state line, 

 

PATCO? WMATA?

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I think the (7) is better off going to 14th Street to connect with the (L) and serve all of Chelsea than going over to New Jersey, because it's part of New York City. It would also be a good idea to look into extending the (7) farther east, because the people there can't even commute efficiently to Manhattan (look at the post at the top of the page).

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i was for this idea and later now i am against it. it so stupid just to extend the subway to Seacaucus. NJT have train stopping there. They also spent millions of dollars on rails to Meadowlands from Seacaucus. Now they are spending another million dollar on extending platform because of the 2014 Super Bowl. They should done that in first place, how moronic that was.

 

I think Bloomberg wanted to have extend subway out to Seacaucus because i think he saw whole bunch of condo house near the station. (i wouldnt live there especially in brush fire area). I also think he probably have some relative living there. (it just a hunch no fact or sources)

 

There no way to have Nj resident should pay taxes to (MTA). The (MTA) should pay NJ if they want their rail out that way. I agree that they should focus on going to area where there is no train around like extending the (7) to LaGuardia and along the Grand Central Parkway) or extend to Chelsea. I think there should be a rail along 11 ave or 12 ave. Imagine people who constantly walk there everyday or use a bus, why not get the privilege to have rails near them.  

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It would also be a good idea to look into extending the (7) farther east, because the people there can't even commute efficiently to Manhattan

If the IND weren't building to compete for business, they should have built two trunks along 9 Avenue and 2 Avenue. 11 Avenue would be added now, and then all the trunk lines (except Broadway) would be equidistant instead of crammed together in the center like it is now leaving no service for the edges of Manhattan.

 

11 Avenue is perfect right now all the way down to mid-twenties streets. The (7) will serve 10, 11, and 12 Avenues. The (A), (C), and (E) will serve 8 and 9 Avenues. Below 26 street, it's up to the engineers. Maybe they'll have the (7) skip 23 Street (or compromise with 26 Street), and then deep bore diagonally to 9 Avenue and 14 Street before continuing down Hudson Street.

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If the IND weren't building to compete for business, they should have built two trunks along 9 Avenue and 2 Avenue. 11 Avenue would be added now, and then all the trunk lines (except Broadway) would be equidistant instead of crammed together in the center like it is now leaving no service for the edges of Manhattan.

 

11 Avenue is perfect right now all the way down to mid-twenties streets. The (7) will serve 10, 11, and 12 Avenues. The (A), (C), and (E) will serve 8 and 9 Avenues. Below 26 street, it's up to the engineers. Maybe they'll have the (7) skip 23 Street (or compromise with 26 Street), and then deep bore diagonally to 9 Avenue and 14 Street before continuing down Hudson Street.

 

Is 23rd not a possibility?

 

Also, the IND was built the way it was because Mayor Hylan was an a**hole.

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Yeah, 6th av wasn't really necessary IMO. If they had 2nd av, that could've done the same job and still serve an area that needs a subway line more. Now we are stuck with a neutered 2 track line that at best we can hope goes to 125th and lex. I'm not even going to hold out hope on south of 63rd.

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Ugh, a half PATH and MTA logo on my (7), OH HELL NO! lmfao but seriously NO! it would also ruin the lines historic value

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If the IND weren't building to compete for business, they should have built two trunks along 9 Avenue and 2 Avenue. 11 Avenue would be added now, and then all the trunk lines (except Broadway) would be equidistant instead of crammed together in the center like it is now leaving no service for the edges of Manhattan.

11 Avenue is perfect right now all the way down to mid-twenties streets. The (7) will serve 10, 11, and 12 Avenues. The (A), (C), and (E) will serve 8 and 9 Avenues. Below 26 street, it's up to the engineers. Maybe they'll have the (7) skip 23 Street (or compromise with 26 Street), and then deep bore diagonally to 9 Avenue and 14 Street before continuing down Hudson Street.

Back then there was no demand for the westside. 6th Av needed a line, and Midtown Manhattan was everything. The 6th Av Line could essily provide releif on it's sister on 8th and during GO's the transfer at W4 and the connections on 53rd were everything. You have to understand, that at that time 10th Av did'nt need service and 2nd Av was planned to be coming in the near-future, although Moses and WWII came along.

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Well I would like to just take a New York Subway train to New Jersey, I think it would simply connect passengers to Grand Central since there is no way to get to Grand Central from New Jersey without having to spend a hell of a lot of extra money to do so

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Back then there was no demand for the westside. 6th Av needed a line, and Midtown Manhattan was everything. The 6th Av Line could essily provide releif on it's sister on 8th and during GO's the transfer at W4 and the connections on 53rd were everything. You have to understand, that at that time 10th Av did'nt need service and 2nd Av was planned to be coming in the near-future, although Moses and WWII came along.

 

More accurately, Hylan's overriding goal was to screw over the IRT and BMT, so he built a subway parallel to the Ninth Av El and the Sixth Av El.

 

There was nothing wrong with the original idea of adding lines to the transit system, but Hylan essentially turned into a company-busting scheme. (Look at how closely the Concourse Line parallels the (4), or how 8th Av basically duplicates the West Side IRT and 6th Av duplicates it from the West Side, or how the Fulton Line basically replaced the old Fulton El.) Even the (G) was altered to screw over the other two companies - the original plans way back when were for a crosstown line on 125th, through Randall's, connecting to the Astoria Line and going over the current (G) route before tying into what is now the Franklin Av Shuttle. Instead, the thing was shortened at the north so that no benefits to IRT riders could occur, and the southern end swung into Downtown Brooklyn to siphon riders off of Myrtle Av.

 

Mayor Hylan's IND was an overengineered monstrosity designed completely out of spite - hence the lack of IND transfers at the pre-existing outer-borough hubs (Queensboro Plaza, Atlantic) in favor of IND-only stations. This plagues the MTA to this very day - oversized station caverns with full mezzanines are only constructed in this city, jacking up construction costs, and the 63rd St Line and SAS have and will have terrible transfer connections - SAS has no planned connection to the Broadway services from Queensboro (which add quite a load to the Lexington Av Line), and 63rd/Lex and Queensbridge were designed horribly as transfer stations.

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It was a bad idea to tear down the Third and Ninth Avenue Elevated without a replacement. Sadly we can't fix the past.



Well I would like to just take a New York Subway train to New Jersey, I think it would simply connect passengers to Grand Central since there is no way to get to Grand Central from New Jersey without having to spend a hell of a lot of extra money to do so

 

There is something called PATH. It costs the same amount of money as riding on the subway.

Edited by Roadcruiser1

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More accurately, Hylan's overriding goal was to screw over the IRT and BMT, so he built a subway parallel to the Ninth Av El and the Sixth Av El.

 

There was nothing wrong with the original idea of adding lines to the transit system, but Hylan essentially turned into a company-busting scheme. (Look at how closely the Concourse Line parallels the (4), or how 8th Av basically duplicates the West Side IRT and 6th Av duplicates it from the West Side, or how the Fulton Line basically replaced the old Fulton El.) Even the (G) was altered to screw over the other two companies - the original plans way back when were for a crosstown line on 125th, through Randall's, connecting to the Astoria Line and going over the current (G) route before tying into what is now the Franklin Av Shuttle. Instead, the thing was shortened at the north so that no benefits to IRT riders could occur, and the southern end swung into Downtown Brooklyn to siphon riders off of Myrtle Av.

 

Mayor Hylan's IND was an overengineered monstrosity designed completely out of spite - hence the lack of IND transfers at the pre-existing outer-borough hubs (Queensboro Plaza, Atlantic) in favor of IND-only stations. This plagues the MTA to this very day - oversized station caverns with full mezzanines are only constructed in this city, jacking up construction costs, and the 63rd St Line and SAS have and will have terrible transfer connections - SAS has no planned connection to the Broadway services from Queensboro (which add quite a load to the Lexington Av Line), and 63rd/Lex and Queensbridge were designed horribly as transfer stations.

Well said. I did raise the Astoria to Franklin Avenue idea before many moons ago; that was dismissed as foam. Who knew they actually had plans for that…

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I don't believe that the segregation in several transit authorities of NYC area is a good thing.

In my opinion, this increases the cost and badly affects the transportation service.

A single organizing transit autority covering New York City, part of New Jersey and most of the suburbs would bring together the existing funds, optimize the cost of operations and projects.

 

 

People of this area should pay taxes for the same and single authority.
This would put a end to this nonsense.

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I don't believe that the segregation in several transit authorities of NYC area is a good thing.

In my opinion, this increases the cost and badly affects the transportation service.

A single organizing transit autority covering New York City, part of New Jersey and most of the suburbs would bring together the existing funds, optimize the cost of operations and projects.

 

 

People of this area should pay taxes for the same and single authority.
This would put a end to this nonsense.

 

 

It's not as simple as you think. Two states means that there's going to be different tax codes, different tax rates, and different state agencies. The only joint agency is the PA, and they only run the PATH...

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It was a bad idea to tear down the Third and Ninth Avenue Elevated without a replacement. Sadly we can't fix the past.

 

 

 

There is something called PATH. It costs the same amount of money as riding on the subway.

 

The Ninth Av El's replacement was the Eighth Av IND. Once again, moved closer to the IRT line to attempt to drive the IRT out of business.

 

 

 

I don't believe that the segregation in several transit authorities of NYC area is a good thing.

In my opinion, this increases the cost and badly affects the transportation service.

A single organizing transit autority covering New York City, part of New Jersey and most of the suburbs would bring together the existing funds, optimize the cost of operations and projects.

 

 

People of this area should pay taxes for the same and single authority.
This would put a end to this nonsense.

 

 

The problem with this is that especially in this city, people are extremely provincial in their attitude (and not completely without reason).

 

Long Island thinks that it's unfairly paying for city residents who smoke weed and have kids on welfare. Westchester is just a bit more polite about it.

 

New Jersey thinks it's a bunch of idyllic towns strung along rail lines when it is this nation's largest suburb.

 

Connecticut is far enough away so that it doesn't feel the need to fund anything that's MTA but not MNRR.

 

Staten Island thinks that it's the last safe haven in the city, and that they're unfairly victimized because there's no good way to get off the island. (There's also a dislike of public transit - they got the blue SBS lights turned off).

 

New York City does not like outsiders because they're rude, they take up space, and more often than not, they're bad drivers. Also, the constant city bashing by those not from it.

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Yeah, 6th av wasn't really necessary IMO. If they had 2nd av, that could've done the same job and still serve an area that needs a subway line more. Now we are stuck with a neutered 2 track line that at best we can hope goes to 125th and lex. I'm not even going to hold out hope on south of 63rd.

 

It was necessary as the past IND expansions plans pre - NYCTA/MTA plans show. They had envisioned a six trunk 2nd Ave line at the time with provisions which are well known at several locations for supplemental service. And it doesn't stop at the South 4th St Line. But of course the  historical drama killed these dreams of IND expansion via a full length SAS 6 tracks with a feed from 6th Ave.

 

At lease my friend from the engineers it was necessary to handle the traffic from the outher boroughs feeding into the Manhattan trunk lines to make the second system work.

Edited by realizm

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Is 23rd not a possibility?

I kind of doubt that a tunnel parallel to a river just one block away is a sound idea given the issues with water seeping into the structures (like South Ferry before the hurricane did it in).

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It was necessary as the past IND expansions plans pre - NYCTA/MTA plans show. They had envisioned a six trunk 2nd Ave line at the time with provisions which are well known at several locations for supplemental service. And it doesn't stop at the South 4th St Line. But of course the  historical drama killed these dreams of IND expansion via a full length SAS 6 tracks with a feed from 6th Ave.

 

At lease my friend from the engineers it was necessary to handle the traffic from the outher boroughs feeding into the Manhattan trunk lines to make the second system work.

Imo, the only plus from having a 6th av line are the track transfers to the 8th av lines especially at W4th. Otherwise I think they could've had the 2nd av line doing what 6th av does south of 63rd (express being the D and F, locals B and M). North of 2nd av, maybe the B/D goes strait up instead of curving over to 8th av and go up to the Bronx more directly. Sure now 6th av is important, but they have Broadway and 7th av in the area. 2nd av has to pack onto the Lex lines and could've used that service more.

 

I don't think a 6 track line was realistic, but 4 would've been fine.

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