official Subway - What If?

[R42N]

60th Street Tunnel needs to be closed for a Canarsie Tube-esc shutdown for a period of 2-3 years. 

Keep in mind that while all the Astoria stations are usable, there is no B division yard access, and two years is a long time without heavy maintenance. 

 

 

[engineerboy6561]

49 minutes ago, R42N said:

60th Street Tunnel needs to be closed for a Canarsie Tube-esc shutdown for a period of 2-3 years. 

Keep in mind that while all the Astoria stations are usable, there is no B division yard access, and two years is a long time without heavy maintenance. 

 

 

The gist of the plan is that the  would be rerouted to serve 96 St with the  including express service through 49 St, the  would be suspended, and the  would have to take 63 St, then use the crossovers at 63rd and Lex to get on the Broadway tracks and the 57 St crossovers to the local tracks to serve 49 St and local stops. Run a Q102A limited from Astoria-Ditmars to 57 St-7Av, with stops at all Astoria stations, Queens Plaza, QBP, 57th and Lex, 57th and Madison, 59th and 5th, and 57th and 7th; support the new bus traffic by claiming one lane in each direction on the QB lower roadway as bus-only.  Possibly supplement with rush-hour QM22 restoration to cover all the rush-hour Astorian passengers going to Manhattan and you might be able to swing it.

Edited December 22, 2017 by engineerboy6561

[R42N]

11 hours ago, engineerboy6561 said:

The gist of the plan is that the  would be rerouted to serve 96 St with the  including express service through 49 St, the  would be suspended, and the  would have to take 63 St, then use the crossovers at 63rd and Lex to get on the Broadway tracks and the 57 St crossovers to the local tracks to serve 49 St and local stops. Run a Q102A limited from Astoria-Ditmars to 57 St-7Av, with stops at all Astoria stations, Queens Plaza, QBP, 57th and Lex, 57th and Madison, 59th and 5th, and 57th and 7th; support the new bus traffic by claiming one lane in each direction on the QB lower roadway as bus-only.  Possibly supplement with rush-hour QM22 restoration to cover all the rush-hour Astorian passengers going to Manhattan and you might be able to swing it.

You wouldn’t consider running a  subway shuttle in Queens?

[quadcorder]

5 hours ago, R42N said:

You wouldn’t consider running a  subway shuttle in Queens?

Where do you store the trains? The center express track?

I'd say it's worth considering running one with temporary platform edge extensions and A Division cars, it could even run to Hudson Yards off-peak.

Edited December 22, 2017 by quadcorder
misread

[R42N]

31 minutes ago, quadcorder said:

Where do you store the trains? The center express track?

I'd say it's worth considering running one with temporary platform edge extensions and A Division cars, it could even run to Hudson Yards off-peak.

That’s what I’d do. Temporary platform extensions for a  Shuttle between Ditmars and QBP. Bring in some R62’s (you’d only need 4-5 sets), and add some  stickers Franklin  style. 

 

[LGA Link N Train]

What I would do is use some trains from the (let's say some R62A's for example) and run a shuttle between QueensBoro Plaza and Ditmars

[quadcorder]

2 hours ago, LGA Link N train said:

What I would do is use some trains from the (let's say some R62A's for example) and run a shuttle between QueensBoro Plaza and Ditmars

Precisely, like the current (Mbr)

[FamousNYLover]

On 12/21/2017 at 9:20 PM, R42N said:

60th Street Tunnel needs to be closed for a Canarsie Tube-esc shutdown for a period of 2-3 years. 

Keep in mind that while all the Astoria stations are usable, there is no B division yard access, and two years is a long time without heavy maintenance. 

 

 

2

(N): Trains run in 2 sections. No trains between Queensboro Plaza and Lex Av-59th St.

1. Between Astoria-Ditmars Blvd and Queensboro Plaza.

2. Between Lexington Av-59th St and Coney Island-Stillwell Av. Trains making all local stops via Manhattan Bridge.

Free transfer between (7)(N)/(Q66)/Q102 and Q32/Q60/Q101 at Queensboro Plaza.

Free transfer between (4)(5)(6)(N)(F)(Q)(W) at Lex Av-59th/63rd Sts, 59th St/Lex Av (Q32), 60th St/2nd Av (Q101/Q60).

(Q): Trains depart 96th St-2nd Av from southbound platform.

(R): 

Brooklyn-bound  train will run on 6th Av line making  and  stops from 21st St-Queensbrige to Atlantic Av-Barclay Center with stop at DeKalb Av..Queens-bound  train will run on 6th Av line making (D)(F) stops from Atlantic Av-Barclay Center

(W): No trains between Astoria-Ditmars Blvd and 57th St-7th Av. Trains rerouted to 2nd Av  to/from 96th St. Whitehall St-bound trains leave from northbound platform at 96th St.

 

 

Edited December 24, 2017 by FamousNYLover

[Wallyhorse]

On 12/21/2017 at 9:20 PM, R42N said:

60th Street Tunnel needs to be closed for a Canarsie Tube-esc shutdown for a period of 2-3 years. 

Keep in mind that while all the Astoria stations are usable, there is no B division yard access, and two years is a long time without heavy maintenance. 

As I would do it:

A new between Queensboro Plaza and Ditmars Boulevard operates at all times.   As needed, cars for this line are transported by truck and hauled onto the Astoria EL while cars going back for maintenance are transported back the same way AND/OR a new, temporary yard is built ahead of time to service such cars (if done, as part of what could be an eventual extension of the Astoria Line to The Bronx). 

Otherwise:

operates as an express between 96th Street-2nd Avenue and Coney Island with the  on Broadway (except late nights)
runs 95th-Bay Ridge to 60th Street-Lexington Avenue (late nights as it does now to Whitehall Street)
is suspended
Late Nights:  operates as a local between 60th Street-Lexington Avenue and Coney Island.   trains making yard runs also operate as needed via this route at other times.

is extended to 71st-Continental to replace the in Brooklyn (except late nights when it runs to Queens Plaza)
becomes 24/7 between Metropolitan Avenue and 71st-Continental (also to replace the  in Brooklyn)

New OOS transfers are established between Queens Plaza and Queensboro Plaza and also between 39th Avenue and 36th Street in Queens. 

[R68OnBroadway]

17 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

As I would do it:

A new between Queensboro Plaza and Ditmars Boulevard operates at all times.   As needed, cars for this line are transported by truck and hauled onto the Astoria EL while cars going back for maintenance are transported back the same way AND/OR a new, temporary yard is built ahead of time to service such cars (if done, as part of what could be an eventual extension of the Astoria Line to The Bronx). 

Otherwise:

operates as an express between 96th Street-2nd Avenue and Coney Island with the  on Broadway (except late nights)
runs 95th-Bay Ridge to 60th Street-Lexington Avenue (late nights as it does now to Whitehall Street)
is suspended
Late Nights:  operates as a local between 60th Street-Lexington Avenue and Coney Island.   trains making yard runs also operate as needed via this route at other times.

is extended to 71st-Continental to replace the in Brooklyn (except late nights when it runs to Queens Plaza)
becomes 24/7 between Metropolitan Avenue and 71st-Continental (also to replace the  in Brooklyn)

New OOS transfers are established between Queens Plaza and Queensboro Plaza and also between 39th Avenue and 36th Street in Queens. 

Congratulations, you've screwed up the simplest of service changes. Rather than rerouted the  via 63rd logically, you've decided to increase costs by making the  full time to 71st and extending the  which will probably barely be used. What is it with you and other people obsessing over putting the  back on QBL? R68 porn?

[Wallyhorse]

1 hour ago, R68OnBroadway said:

Congratulations, you've screwed up the simplest of service changes. Rather than rerouted the  via 63rd logically, you've decided to increase costs by making the  full time to 71st and extending the  which will probably barely be used. What is it with you and other people obsessing over putting the  back on QBL? R68 porn?

You need to have something run to 60th and Lex.  For many from Harlem and The Bronx in particular, that is still a major transfer point to the Broadway Line and if you have the and both run to 96th, you have to have some line to run to 60th and Lex, which as I would do it would be the (with the  doing such late nights).   Not many are going to want to do an OOS transfer between 60th and 63rd and I suspect trying to force that on people who use the Broadway Line to get to the Lex at 59th are going to complain very loudly.  That is why I do it that way.

If you have to have a Broadway service run on QBL in that situation, do it with the  and have that replace the to 71st-Continental.  Otherwise, having the and on QBL is the best of a bad lot (and to correct my earlier post, the would be 19/7 on QBL, NOT 24/7 though you could have the and late nights both terminate at Queens Plaza during those hours).

[quadcorder]

15 minutes ago, Wallyhorse said:

You need to have something run to 60th and Lex.  For many from Harlem and The Bronx in particular, that is still a major transfer point to the Broadway Line and if you have the and both run to 96th, you have to have some line to run to 60th and Lex, which as I would do it would be the (with the  doing such late nights).   Not many are going to want to do an OOS transfer between 60th and 63rd and I suspect trying to force that on people who use the Broadway Line to get to the Lex at 59th are going to complain very loudly.  That is why I do it that way.

If you have to have a Broadway service run on QBL in that situation, do it with the  and have that replace the to 71st-Continental.  Otherwise, having the and on QBL is the best of a bad lot (and to correct my earlier post, the would be 19/7 on QBL, NOT 24/7 though you could have the and late nights both terminate at Queens Plaza during those hours).

Running to 71st also solves the issues of the yard. I'm not sure what you propose to do about that...

I'll bet Queens riders (every single one of them) will complain a lot more loudly about losing a whole line of Manhattan-bound local trains (and no, does NOT count...) than the Bronx riders who now have to transfer at 53rd, 42nd, or walk a short distance.

[R68OnBroadway]

9 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

You need to have something run to 60th and Lex.  For many from Harlem and The Bronx in particular, that is still a major transfer point to the Broadway Line and if you have the and both run to 96th, you have to have some line to run to 60th and Lex, which as I would do it would be the (with the  doing such late nights).   Not many are going to want to do an OOS transfer between 60th and 63rd and I suspect trying to force that on people who use the Broadway Line to get to the Lex at 59th are going to complain very loudly.  That is why I do it that way.

If you have to have a Broadway service run on QBL in that situation, do it with the  and have that replace the to 71st-Continental.  Otherwise, having the and on QBL is the best of a bad lot (and to correct my earlier post, the would be 19/7 on QBL, NOT 24/7 though you could have the and late nights both terminate at Queens Plaza during those hours).

1. Bronx riders can still transfer at 42nd to the  to Times Square...

2. The  ? Really? Why confuse riders when you can send the  ? Is this to appease your thirst swapping the  and  again? This really proves the point that you are a buff , not a railfan who takes things into consideration.

[R68OnBroadway]

What if...

Let's say another hurricane struck NY. Fortunately, most tubes had been rebuilt and fortified by the time the hurricane struck. However, Rutgers, 60th, and 63rd have flooded. Canarsie will still be shut down at the same time. 63rd will be closed for 1 month, while the other tubes will have to be shut down for 8. Reroute away!

[LGA Link N Train]

4 hours ago, R68OnBroadway said:

What if...

Let's say another hurricane struck NY. Fortunately, most tubes had been rebuilt and fortified by the time the hurricane struck. However, Rutgers, 60th, and 63rd have flooded. Canarsie will still be shut down at the same time. 63rd will be closed for 1 month, while the other tubes will have to be shut down for 8. Reroute away!

IRT Shuttle between Queensboro Plaza and Ditmars 

 Local on Queens Blvs via 53 St ending at 2 Av or East Broadway. Some trains run via the and/or lines. York St is closed. For renovation.

extended to Forest Hills to cover extra local service. Also extended to Coney Island Stillwell Avenue to cover service. 

trains continue express until 63 St reopens 

trains run express from 96 St - 2 Av to coney Island. 

trains terminate at Lexington Avenue - 59. St with some trains terminating at 9 Av on the line

is suspended or covers up local service 

trains terminate at 57 St 

 

 

[DailyDose]

5 hours ago, R68OnBroadway said:

What if...

Let's say another hurricane struck NY. Fortunately, most tubes had been rebuilt and fortified by the time the hurricane struck. However, Rutgers, 60th, and 63rd have flooded. Canarsie will still be shut down at the same time. 63rd will be closed for 1 month, while the other tubes will have to be shut down for 8. Reroute away!

During 63rd Closure:

Routed via (G), service suspended. Select service to York St. during rush hours. Shuttle buses serve 21st-Queensbridge, East Broadway - 2nd Ave, York St - Hoyt-Schermerhorn

 replaces in Manhattan, runs all times, service increased

 terminates at 59th - Lex or 57th St

When 63rd Reopens:

 Two sections: Coney Island - York St, 2nd Ave - Jamaica

Returns

Returns to normal service

 Two sections: Coney Island - 59th Lex (w/ some trains to 96th if need be), Queensboro - Astoria Shuttle

 via 53rd St

Suspended

 Canarsie - Bedford, as planned

 

Edited December 25, 2017 by DailyDose
Forgot the W :)

[R68OnBroadway]

How I would do it: 

 

First month:

 local on QBL

 via 53rd, local on QBL,  truncated to 2nd Av

 extended to CI

 to 57th St

 to 96th

 to Lex-59

 suspended

IRT shuttle operates on Astoria, platform extenders are put in (static ones, not moving)

 

Next 7 months:

 operates normally

 to 2nd Av

 extended to CI

 operates normally

 to 96th

 via 63rd

 suspended

IRT  still operates in Astoria

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Wallyhorse]

6 hours ago, R68OnBroadway said:

1. Bronx riders can still transfer at 42nd to the  to Times Square...

2. The  ? Really? Why confuse riders when you can send the  ? Is this to appease your thirst swapping the  and  again? This really proves the point that you are a buff , not a railfan who takes things into consideration.

I'm looking at who has the bigger political clout.  In this case, it's upper Manhattan mainly.  That's why I do the to 60th and Lex and the 19/7 to 71st-Continental with the joining it.    You would likely hear an insistence from pols on the upper east side (a lot of whose constituents either live north of 96th OR west of Lexington) who would want to be able to take the  from Lex-60th to Broadway (yes, I know you can take the or  to Times Square, but not all want to do that).  

Edited December 25, 2017 by Wallyhorse

[R68OnBroadway]

24 minutes ago, Wallyhorse said:

I'm looking at who has the bigger political clout.  In this case, it's upper Manhattan mainly.  That's why I do the to 60th and Lex and the 19/7 to 71st-Continental with the joining it.    You would likely hear an insistence from pols on the upper east side (a lot of whose constituents either live north of 96th OR west of Lexington) who would want to be able to take the  from Lex-60th to Broadway (yes, I know you can take the or  to Times Square, but not all want to do that).  

They can still take the  and  from Lex-63rd, and while it may be out of system, they will have to deal with it. It's only a few blocks anyways. 

[FamousNYLover]

Deleted.
 

Edited December 26, 2017 by FamousNYLover

[FamousNYLover]

13 hours ago, R68OnBroadway said:

What if...

Let's say another hurricane struck NY. Fortunately, most tubes had been rebuilt and fortified by the time the hurricane struck. However, Rutgers, 60th, and 63rd have flooded. Canarsie will still be shut down at the same time. 63rd will be closed for 1 month, while the other tubes will have to be shut down for 8. Reroute away!

 

(A): Ozone park trains rerouted to Rockaway Park.

(C): Normal.

(E): Trains run local in Queens.

(F): Trains will operate via 8th Av  line between Jackson Heights-Roosevelt Av and Jay St-MetroTech. Use nearby High St station.

(G): Trains extend via (E)(R) line to/from Forest Hill.

(M): Runs normal and runs until 11:30pm, where  takes place of  train.

(N): Trains run in 2 sections.

1. Between Astoria-Ditmars Blvd and Queensboro Plaza.

2. Between Lexington Av-59th St and Coney Island.

(R): No trains between Forest Hill and 57th St-7th Av. Service rerouted on  line between 57th St and 96th St. Late night service terminate/originate at Lex Av-63rd St.

(W): Service suspended.

Free transfer enconded at Queensboro and Queens Plaza.

Free out of bus transfer location:

Queensboro Plaza/Queens Plaza with Q32, Q60, Q66, Q69, Q100, Q102.

Lexington Av-59th/63rd Sts with Q32, Q60, Q101.

21st-Queensbirdge with Q66, Q101, Q102.

Roosevelt Island with Q102.

Shuttle Bus will operate from Roosevelt Island, stopping at 21st St-Queensbridge, Queens Plaza, Queensboro Plaza, 2nd 60th St-2nd Av, Lex Av-59th and Lex Av-63r dSts.

Shuttle Bus will leave from West Rd at subway station, Main St, 36th Av Bridge, 21st St,  43rd Av, Jackson Av, Northern Blvd, Queens Plaza North, Queensboro Bridge, 60th St, 3rd Av, 72nd St, Lex Av, 59th St, Queensboro Bridge, Queens Plaza South, Jackson Av, 43rd Av, 21st St, 36th Av, 36th Av Bridge, Main St, E Main St, N Loop Rd, W Main St, W Rd.

Shuttle Bus will leave from Lex Av-63rd St, stopping at Lex Av-59th St, 59th St-2nd Av, Queensboro Plaza, Queens Plaza, 21st St-Queensbridge, Roosevelt Island Ferry, and Roosevelt Island.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=17-bz_b4Eu-ekGPH0zoXXAH6ERY8m3IBM&usp=sharing

Edited December 26, 2017 by FamousNYLover

[FamousNYLover]

Due to suspcious suitcase at 14th St passegeway between 6th & 7th Avs, (1)(2)(3)(F)(L)(M) and PATH can't go pass 14th St or 6th Av.

[R68OnBroadway]

11 hours ago, FamousNYLover said:

Due to suspcious suitcase at 14th St passegeway between 6th & 7th Avs, (1)(2)(3)(F)(L)(M) and PATH can't go pass 14th St or 6th Av.

 to 34th St. Trains terminate on SB express track.

 via Lexington

 to 34th St. Trains terminate on NB express track.

 via  and  . 8th Av express.

 to Essex

 to Union Sq

PATH rerouted to Hoboken and WTC

Edited December 26, 2017 by R68OnBroadway
adding in PATH

[DailyDose]

On 12/25/2017 at 11:13 PM, FamousNYLover said:

Due to suspcious suitcase at 14th St passegeway between 6th & 7th Avs, (1)(2)(3)(F)(L)(M) and PATH can't go pass 14th St or 6th Av.

 1 train between South Ferry & Chambers, 96th - 241st

 Flatbush - Chambers, 34th - Wakefield

New Lots - Chambers, 34th - 148th (local between 34th and 96th)

 via express between W4th and 34th

 via  between W4th and 53rd St

 3rd Ave - Canarsie w/ free transfer between Union Square and 3rd Ave

PATH doesn't run along 6th Ave

[Wallyhorse]

On 12/25/2017 at 11:13 PM, FamousNYLover said:

Due to suspcious suitcase at 14th St passegeway between 6th & 7th Avs, (1)(2)(3)(F)(L)(M) and PATH can't go pass 14th St or 6th Av.

I'm going to for this purpose assume no trains on 6th can go past 14th:

operates in two sections:
As a limited service shuttle between South Ferry and Chambers Street (one train operates on each track in both directions).
Between 34th Street-Penn Station and 242nd Street

runs as follows:
Some trains from Brooklyn terminate at Chambers Street
Some trains from The Bronx terminate at 34th Street-Penn Station OR Times Square
Some trains operate straight through via the  between Nevins Street and 149th Street

 operates in two sections:
New Lots Avenue-Chambers Street
34th Street-Penn Station OR Times Square to 148th Street-Lenox Terminal

Some trains are extended to New Lots Avenue or operate to Flatbush Avenue if necessary to accommodate the loss of some  and  service

operates normal route between Coney Island and West 4th Street ONLY!

Some  trains operates express on 8th Avenue between Canal Street and 59th Street-Columbus Circle OR 145th Street

operates as follows:
Some trains operate from Coney Island to West 4th Street ONLY!
Some trains from Coney Island run via 8th Avenue Local between West 4th and 59th Street
Some trains operate between 34th Street-6th Avenue and 205th Street ONLY (normal service Central Park West)!

Some  trains operates express on 8th Avenue between Canal Street and 42nd Street

operates as follows:
Some trains from Coney Island terminate at West 4th Street
Some trains from 179th Street terminate at 34th Street
Some trains operate between Coney Island and 179th Street via the between Bergen Street and Roosevelt Avenue.
Some trains operate between Coney Island and 179th Street via the between West 4th and Roosevelt Avenue

 terminates at Union Square

operates via Nassau between Essex and Chambers Street