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Subway - What If?


VWM

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There are stalled trains between (5) Pelham Pkwy and Dyre Ave in the northbound track. In addition, an express train heading to Pelham Bay Park is experiencing mechanical problems at Hunts Point Ave (6)<6>.

 

(5): Single train operation on SB Track between Pelham Parkway & East 180th St. Single shuttle train leaves East 180th St from Center Platform. Doors will be open on bwetoth side. Free shuttle buses operates between Pelham Parkway & Dyre Av.

 

(6): No trains between 3rd Av-138th St & Parkchester-East 177th St.

Free shuttle bus operate as follows.

1. Local shuttle bus operates between Parkchestester & Hunts Point Av.

2. Local shuttle bus operates between Hunts Point Av & Parkchester.

3. Express shuttle bus operates between Parkchester & 3rd Av-138th St, serving Hunts Point Av station only.

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There are stalled trains between (5) Pelham Pkwy and Dyre Ave in the northbound track. In addition, an express train heading to Pelham Bay Park is experiencing mechanical problems at Hunts Point Ave (6)<6>.

 

(5) trains run via the (2) from East 180 Street to Nereid Avenue or Wakefield-241 Street.

<5> trains run via the (2) from East 180 Street to Gun Hill Road

(S) A Shuttle train is running on the southbound track from East 180 Street(middle track) to Eastchester-Dyre Avenue

 

<6> trains run local between 3 Avenue and Parkchester-East 177 Street

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What if... Due to a street collapse over the tunnel that connects Jamaica Yard to the mainline, no trains can come in or out of Jamaica Yard (it is 4 in the morning and rush hour is about to start).

 

Whaddya do? B)

 

Ouchies.

Dees be hard.

 

(E) No change in service

(F) Steals some 68s from the (B) and (D) to increase service.

(G) Extended to Jamaica Center to reinforce (E) service

(M) Extended to J-179 to beef up (F) service

(R) Runs to 57/7 Av via Broadway Exp

(Q) Runs local in Manhattan

Buses replace some (E)(F)(M)(R) trains between midtown and 71 Av

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Guest lance25
What if... Due to a street collapse over the tunnel that connects Jamaica Yard to the mainline, no trains can come in or out of Jamaica Yard (it is 4 in the morning and rush hour is about to start).

 

Whaddya do? B)

 

Since this is more of a car shortage rather than a service problem, I'd tackle it as such...

 

East New York R42s/R160s used for (M)/(Z) service are placed on (E) line

 

  • reduced service on (E) line

  • limited or no (M) service between Myrtle Av-Broadway & Forest Hills-71 Av

  • no (Z) train service; (J) trains all local

 

Coney Island Yard R68(a)s and/or R160s placed on (F) line

 

  • no (B) train service; (D) trains via local in the Bronx

 

Concourse/Pitkin extra R46s/R68s used for (R) service

 

Of course, you can mix and match it, but basically, the (B) and (Z) lines are suspended and the (M) is shortened to shuttle status as their trains are in use on other lines. I also wouldn't pull out the R32s unless absolutely necessary.

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In order to complete a section of the (T) line in Lower Manhattan, you must temporarily close the following stations for 1 Year:

Grand St (:((D)

2 Av (F)

3 Av (L)

How do you change service to replace (:((D)(F)(L) Brooklyn service for One Year?

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Lolz, that's funny. I actually came on to this thread to post a similar scenario. No offense, but IMHO mine would have been a bit more believable -- there's no way they would build the SAS in a way that would sever such vital links -- but I'll be happy to answer yours.

 

(:((D)(N)(Q)(R)(W) service returns more or less how it was from '01-'05 (I think I have my years right there) with the following exceptions:

(:o service would be suspended. I never understood the point of running both the B and D to 34th. Plus, I'd be increasing C service below anyway, so the loss of the B on CPW would be made up for.

The (N) would stay on the bridge and the renewed (W) would run through the tunnel to reduce confusion.

 

Non-Manny B/Montague changes:

The (F) runs QBL local via 53rd from 71st/Continental to Broadway/Lafayette and runs 18/7.

The (M) runs QBL express via 63rd from 179th/Jamaica to Metropolitan and runs 24/7 (the E and M would both run local late nights).

(Essentially, the F and M switch places on QBL. The M becomes the full-service line in place of the F since a) it's unaffected by the service change, and B) it's needed to replace the L.)

The (C) is rerouted to the Culver Line, and runs 24/7.

 

For the Fulton line to replace the rerouted C, there are two options. The obvious one is to just run the A local. The more fun one is to empty out the transit museum and run an (H) the way it was originally intended from Court Street to Euclid.

 

The (L) is simple. With 3 Av being the closed station, the Manhattan tracks are rendered useless, so trains have to turn at Bedford Avenue. Passengers use the (M) and the (M14) as replacements.

 

Two shuttle buses:

1) Connecting East Broadway (F), Grand Street (B)(D), and Canal Street (N)(Q)(R)(W)

2) Connecting York Street (F) and Jay Street/Metrotech (A)(C)(R)

 

The closed (L) stations and 2 Ave (F) don't get shuttle buses. Why? Because I'm mean. :(

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Due to switch problems at 96th street (1)(2)(3) and 125th street (4)<4>(5)<5>(6)<6> no trains can pass through either junction, how would you reroute service?

 

I'll give this one a shot; I didn't see anyone besides RookiePhenom try it. I ran into a problem pretty quickly, though. South of 96th Street, I can't find any stations capable of turning local trains. Express trains can turn between 34th and 42nd, but a train using the center track to turn can't get to the local tracks. (14th can be used as a south terminal, but not a north terminal.) So sadly, this horrific scenario would wipe out pretty much the entire Broadway/7th line.

 

Anyhew, here goes.

 

(1) 242nd/VCP to 137th/City College. Replace by "shuttle" buses south of 137th.

(2) runs in two sections: from 241st/Wakefield to 110 Street, and from 42nd Street to Flatbush Avenue (express from 42nd to Chambers).

(3) suspended. (No shuttle buses, use (M7) or (M102).)

A shuttle bus connects 125 St (2), 125 St (A)(:((C)(D), and 137 St (1).

 

(4) runs in two sections: Woodlawn to 138th St/Grand Concourse, and from 86th Street to New Lots Avenue.

(5) runs from Dyre Avenue to E 180 Street only.

(6) runs in two sections: Pelham Bay Park to 3rd Ave/138th Street, and from 86th Street to Bowling Green.

A shuttle bus runs from 3 Ave/138th (6) to 138th/GC (4), then to all Lexington Ave stations from 125th to 86th.

 

Additional service changes to make up for lost service:

(:( runs weekends and evenings to make up for lost West Side service.

(N) runs local all times to make up for lost Midtown/Lower Manhattan service.

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Here's something that could actually happen :P

 

What if... the R1/9 nostalgia train going towards manhattan stalls in the middle of the 53 St tunnel, and at that time the (F) was going via 53 St Southbound because 63 St is closed.

 

That means no 53 St and 63 St service into Manhattan. whaddya do :P

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Here's something that could actually happen :P

 

What if... the R1/9 nostalgia train going towards manhattan stalls in the middle of the 53 St tunnel, and at that time the (F) was going via 53 St Southbound because 63 St is closed.

 

That means no 53 St and 63 St service into Manhattan. whaddya do :P

(N) no trains to astoria, (N) terminates @ 57 St

free shuttle bus replaces (N) btwn Astoria-Ditmars and Queensboro Plaza

(E) via 60 St, to Whitehall and QBL Local

(C) Extra service on 8 Av

(F) single track in 53 St tubes

(G) extended to J-179 QBL exp to add to (F) trains

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(N) no trains to astoria, (N) terminates @ 57 St

free shuttle bus replaces (N) btwn Astoria-Ditmars and Queensboro Plaza

(E) via 60 St, to Whitehall and QBL Local

(C) Extra service on 8 Av

(F) single track in 53 St tubes

(G) extended to J-179 QBL exp to add to (F) trains

 

What about the (M)? If you're single tracking in the 53 St tubes, the (M) has to go somewhere. What actually makes your single tracking idea work is that there are double crossovers at 23 St-Court Sq and east of Lex-53 St.

 

Why would you need the (G) to Jamaica? The (E) could supplement the (F) just fine the way it is--once it gets into Queen Plaza, it switches over to the express. A better idea would be to send the (G) to 71-Continental to make up for the loss of the (M).

 

-A :cool:

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What about the (M)? If you're single tracking in the 53 St tubes, the (M) has to go somewhere. What actually makes your single tracking idea work is that there are double crossovers at 23 St-Court Sq and east of Lex-53 St.

 

Why would you need the (G) to Jamaica? The (E) could supplement the (F) just fine the way it is--once it gets into Queen Plaza, it switches over to the express. A better idea would be to send the (G) to 71-Continental to make up for the loss of the (M).

 

-A :cool:

 

The nostaglia train runs on weekends, so the (M) is running myrtle shuttle

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(N) no trains to astoria, (N) terminates @ 57 St

free shuttle bus replaces (N) btwn Astoria-Ditmars and Queensboro Plaza

(E) via 60 St, to Whitehall and QBL Local

(C) Extra service on 8 Av

(F) single track in 53 St tubes

(G) extended to J-179 QBL exp to add to (F) trains

 

I definitely like this solution. I certainly would not have thought of just single-tracking a train through 53rd, but it definitely works. As I'm writing this, I may have thought of something even better. Obviously, in order to single-track the (F) through the tunnel, you'd have to cut service somewhat, as I think that's a pretty long distance to try to do such a maneuver.

 

In this scenario, due to a prior GO, the (F) is running northbound through 63rd and southbound through 53rd. So why not just keep it that way, except through 53rd it would be running southbound on the northbound track?

 

Also, I question the need to cancel the (N) to Astoria. I'm assuming you're doing this to clear room in the 60th St tunnel, but I'm not sure you need that much more room. Rather than rerouting (E) trains, why not just suspend the E and extend the (R) to Jamaica Center?

 

So here's what I would do...

(E) suspended. All E's en route when the train stalls become either ©s or ®s depending on location.

(F) runs as is with the pre-existing GO, but runs local on QBL to facilitate transfers at 36th St between 63rd Street and 53rd Street trains.

(R) is extended to Jamaica Center.

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@Kacie Jane if ur so good at fixing scenarios, try making one yourself, bet it would be a good one

 

Okay, here's my SAS scenario.

 

As in yours, the 2nd Avenue (F) station must be temporarily closed, maybe not for a full year, but definitely a couple of months while the Houston Street station is constructed. (Grand Street and the (L) are unaffected.)

 

The obvious solution is to simply switch the (F) at W 4 St, and run it to Brooklyn via Cranberry Street, and this what the MTA does at first. However, within the first week of this service, the switches at W4 start to break down, and the decision is made to lock them in place.

 

The complicating issue in all of this is that during this same period, the Nassau Street line is undergoing complete reconstruction in order to tie it into the SAS. As a result, rather than locking the switch to allow the (F) to reach the Cranberry St Tunnels, the switches are locked in their current real-life positions, maintaining (M) service, but forcing all 6th Avenue local service to Houston Street and the Williamsburg Bridge.

 

Long story short:

 

  • The 2nd Avenue (F) station is closed.

  • All (J)(Z) stations south of Essex Street are closed.

  • All 6th Avenue local trains (whether they're called (F), (M), or whatever) are forced to run over the Williamsburg Bridge.

 

 

How do you change service to best provide service on the Culver, Jamaica, and Myrtle Av lines?

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Long story short:

 

  • The 2nd Avenue (F) station is closed.

  • All (J)(Z) stations south of Essex Street are closed.

  • All 6th Avenue local trains (whether they're called (F), (M), or whatever) are forced to run over the Williamsburg Bridge.

 

 

How do you change service to best provide service on the Culver, Jamaica, and Myrtle Av lines?

 

It might be tricky, but here's what I would do:

 

-(C) service would run from 168-34 St/Penn weekdays only. There are layups south of the station to make this work with minimum disruption to the (A).

 

-(F) service would be rerouted over 8 Av between Queens Plaza and Jay Street. At this time, no (M) service running in Manhattan or Queens. To prevent crowding on the Cranberry tubes this is why the (C) ends at Penn.

 

-(G) extended up to 71 Av/Forest Hills to make up for the loss of the (M).

 

-(Z) suspended until the Nassau St construction is complete. Resurrect the (Mx) to run along with the (J) to Essex St. Shuttle buses will replace the lost Nassau St service. Late nights the (Mx) runs as the Myrtle shuttle with the (J) being the sole Jamaica line.

 

I think I covered everything?

 

-A :cool:

 

P.S. Running the 6 Av locals over the WillyB would be an absolute nightmare.

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  • The 2nd Avenue (F) station is closed.
  • All (J)(Z) stations south of Essex Street are closed.
  • All 6th Avenue local trains (whether they're called (F), (M), or whatever) are forced to run over the Williamsburg Bridge.

Here's my "soloution"

The (:( is suspended. This allows the (F) to run via the (:) in Brooklyn Weekdays, and via 6 Ave Express. The (C) replaces the (:( in the bronx rush hours. The (F) does not run outside regular (:( times.

The Culver line is served by the (C) and (G).

The (G) is extended to Kings Hwy.

The (C) and (E) swap terminals and Stets (160s on the (C) and 32'a on the (E))

The (Z) terminates at Myrtle Av and lays up on the center track The (Z) runs express between Myrtle and Broadway Jct.

The express portion btwn. Myrtle + Marcy is discontinued .

The (M) becomes a 24/7 route. Goes via 63 St Weekends and Nights, and is express then to replace the (F). The (M) is also extended to Jamaica-179 Weekends and Nights.

The (J) terminates At Marcy Avenue.

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It might be tricky, but here's what I would do:

 

*snip*

 

I think you did cover everything, but I'm afraid I can only give partial credit. There's a couple of minor flaws, and one major one in your plan.

  • It depends on what your definition of "minimal disruption to the (A)" is. The layup track at Penn is only accessible from the express tracks, so I think there would be significant delays having the (C) cross in front of the (A) to relay. Queens Plaza is set up the same way, that's why the (G) terminates at Court Square now instead. You'd be better off suspending the (C) altogether; customers wanting local service on CPW and 8th Avenue can transfer between the (:( and (E) at 7th/53rd.
  • You don't have anything running local on 6th Avenue. This is easily rectified by having the (:) switch to the local tracks at 34th and then back at 4th. (Hopefully that switch doesn't break down. *wink*)
  • You don't have anything running through 63rd Street. (You don't specifically mention it, but the (F) would have to be rerouted to 53rd with the (E) in order to access 8th Avenue.) This could also be easily rectified by rerouting the (R), although 57th/6th would still have no service.
  • (The major one) You're not "best serving" the Jamaica and Myrtle lines. Terminating the (J)(Mx) at Essex would be okay, but still not ideal, if the (F) were running normally. But with no service in the Rutgers St tunnels, you're leading Jamaica line riders to a dead end with no transfers. The point of the scenario is to continue provide through service on the WillyB to appease (J)(M)(Z) customers, otherwise the switch at W4 would be locked the other way instead.

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Okay, here's my SAS scenario.

 

  • The 2nd Avenue F station is closed.
  • All J,Z stations south of Essex Street are closed.
  • All 6th Avenue local trains (whether they're called F,M, or whatever) are forced to run over the Williamsburg Bridge.

How do you change service to best provide service on the Culver, Jamaica, and Myrtle Av lines?

 

I'm gonna try this one.

 

(E) trains terminate on the left track of World Trade Center station only.

(F) trains run in two sections-

From Jamaica-179 Street to World Trade Center (on the right track).

From Delancey Street to Coney Island-Stillwell Avenue.

Some (F) trains run via the (A) from Jay Street-Metrotech to West 4 Street.

*Transfer at West 4 Street or Delancey Street-Essex Street for (M).

(J) trains terminate at Essex Street or Marcy Avenue.

(M) trains are unaffected.

(Z) trains are suspended.

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I think VWM wins this one. Outside the box, and definitely solves the scenario I posed. TrainFanInfinity, I like yours, too. But keep in mind that in order to turn (F) trains at World Trade Center -- since you can't switch them at W 4th -- you'd have to reroute them via 53rd Street and 8th Avenue. So you'd have to either suspend the (C), or severely cut QBL service in order to fit the C, E, and F on the 8th Ave local tracks.

 

(Although now that I'm writing this, I realize you could switch the C and the E, and have the E run express on 8th Avenue. Then you'd have the C and F local to WTC, and the A and E express to Brooklyn. Plenty of room for all four.)

 

Note that VWM also wins because his had full service on both the Myrtle and the Culver, whereas TrainFan's plan cuts the Culver line short at Delancey.

 

However, there is a way to provide full Manhattan service on all three lines (Culver, Jamaica, Myrtle). Here's what I would do...

 

(M) is suspended. The (J)(Z) are temporarily recolored orange instead.

(F) service runs from 179th/Jamaica to Metropolitan (via 63rd and QBL express).

(J)(Z) service runs from 71st/Continental to Jamaica Center (via 53rd and QBL local).

(You could just keep the (M) as is, and have the (F) take over the Jamaica line instead, but IMHO that would make the F too long and too confusing by having both terminals in Jamaica.)

 

To cover the Culver line:

(C) service runs from 168th to WTC.

(E) service runs from Jamaica Center to Coney Island via 8th Avenue express.

(You could just keep the (E) as is, and have the (C) run on the Culver, but this way the E is essentially a clone of the F running from Jamaica to CI. Plus, I like the idea of all 8th Ave locals terminating at WTC, and expresses running to Brooklyn, the way it used to be in the '70s.)

 

The only problem with providing full service to all three lines this way is that the (F) runs far more frequently than the (M), which could lead to massive switching delays at the Myrtle Ave junction. To help alleviate this, I would:

*Give the F priority at all times.

*Reduce J service if necessary.

*Increase R service to make up for less J service on QBL.

*Reduce Q Astoria service to make room in 60th Street for increased R service.

 

One last thing in this totally TL;DR post. It occurs to me that to solve the problem of the closed (F) stations, rather than worring about shuttle buses, you could just create an (S) from Delancey Street to Church Avenue. Then the only closed station would be 2nd Avenue, which could easily be served by increased (M21) service. (I'm not worried about the Nassau St stations in my scenario; passengers could easily transfer to the (6) at Broadway-Lafayette to reach lower Manhattan.)

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I still have no idea why actual trackage has to be closed for stations to be constructed in these mock scenarios. For instance, I can see them closing Lex-63rd for a bit to fully construct the other side of the station (or even a part of it, like the lower level for instance, but the tracks remain open for (F) service (or anything else going through 63rd) to bypass safely.

 

Look what they're doing for the Culver viaduct, they didn't exactly shut down the entire thing for weeks or months at a time (save the weekend GO or two).

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I still have no idea why actual trackage has to be closed for stations to be constructed in these mock scenarios. For instance, I can see them closing Lex-63rd for a bit to fully construct the other side of the station (or even a part of it, like the lower level for instance, but the tracks remain open for (F) service (or anything else going through 63rd) to bypass safely.

 

Look what they're doing for the Culver viaduct, they didn't exactly shut down the entire thing for weeks or months at a time (save the weekend GO or two).

 

This thread is not supposed to be one close to reality.

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There was a wall collapse at West 4 Street-Washington Square and rubble covers both 8th Avenue(A)(C)(E) and 6th Avenue(-_-(D)(F)(M) Lines. How would you change service?

 

Eh.. I'm bored so I'll give it a shot.

(:) suspended

(C) replaces the (B) in the Bronx Rush hours, allowing the (D) to run exp

(D) in 2 sections

Norwood-205 to 34 St-Herald Sq

B-way Laffayette-CI

(F) Runs from East Broadway to CI

(M) runs as Myrtle Shuttle

Shuttle buses replace 6 Av Service:

From East Broadway-34 St LOCAL

From B-way Laffayette to 34 St EXPRESS

From 34 St to 63 St/Lex Av

(A) two sections

runs from 207 St to 34 St

Chambers St to Queens

(C) 2 Sections

to 34 St, via express tracks below Columbus Circle

Chambers St to Euclid Av

(E) Jamaica Center - Lexington Av

Shuttle buses replace 8 Av Service:

Between 34 And Chambers St

Between WTC and Lexington Av

Additional Info/Replacement

IRT (1)(2)(3) is available by free transfer @ 34 St

(Q)<Q> trains run to Jamaica-179 St

<Q> replaces (B) in brooklyn.

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