Juelz4309 Posted October 31, 2011 #1 Posted October 31, 2011 Looking at how wide Lenox Avenue is from 110-145 Street...I wonder why They didnt take advantage of this by adding 3 or 4 tracks bet 110-145 st....I read on nycsubway.org That back then they had trolley lines running on The street level so they did it as it is to avoid Disrupting the service.. .But Imagine had they put in at least 3 Tracks as follows..... Starting jus south of 110 st...3 tracks form..Heading up Lenox... 110 st local 116 st local 125 st Exp 135 st local The service would be In the Peak Direction trains Would Run Express 96 St-149/Concourse and Vice versa.....I think This would do wonders for the Long Journey from 241/WP...Dare I say We could have had A Super Express running as follows.. 241 ST-Gun Hill RD-E180 St-3 Ave/149-149/GC-125 ST-96 St! They run more than Enough (3)Service to cover the Harlem folks...I know theres 3 Tracks at 135 St used for layups so it simply should or could have been built all the way down lenox.....Just a thought that comes to me when i ride thru there which is often...Any positive thoughts or feedback greatly appreciated!! :cool:
IRT Bronx Express Posted October 31, 2011 #2 Posted October 31, 2011 Not gonna happen. A Lenox Ave express would be useless because the Lenox corridor has 4-6 stations. It's just like the Astoria line (7 stations), in a way. And forget about the super express because residents at Bronx local stations (South of E. 180 St) want the , not the .
Roadcruiser1 Posted October 31, 2011 #3 Posted October 31, 2011 Didn't they plan for skip stop service, and killed the idea when the residents in the neighborhood protested? What would make express service any different?
Kamen Rider Posted October 31, 2011 #4 Posted October 31, 2011 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters
TwoTimer Posted October 31, 2011 #5 Posted October 31, 2011 I know this thread stemmed from a fantasy thought... but the only provision Lenox needs is a traditional way to bring trains from the Bronx into the corridor without having to stop Lenox service while the train crosses over tracks (which I believe is the only such type of track setup in the system that has revenue service going through it). A simple go under and around setup would be sufficient, and the amount of trains could actually be beefed up (the Lenox junction being the only limitation to what otherwise is the most crowded line in the system).
Kamen Rider Posted October 31, 2011 #6 Posted October 31, 2011 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters
TwoTimer Posted October 31, 2011 #7 Posted October 31, 2011 Myrtle-Broadway which is acutally worse Oh yeah forgot bout that one, yup its worse too (I can't stand going over that switch). Even with the punch box right outside the window still got to get up on top the seat and reach out for it.
GojiMet86 Posted October 31, 2011 #8 Posted October 31, 2011 I caught an express from 135th Street to 96th Street a few days back.
SubwayGuy Posted October 31, 2011 #9 Posted October 31, 2011 No point. It's four stations and they go very fast. Running time is maybe ~6 minutes. An express wouldn't save any time hardly. The slowest portion of the Lenox line is 110-96 and that's because of the position of the right of way which features three turns and therefore requires timers all over the place to enforce safe speed through them. Takes near 5 minutes to go 14 blocks north and a couple blocks east. But there's really nothing that can be done about that with the way that it was built.
TwoTimer Posted October 31, 2011 #10 Posted October 31, 2011 No point. It's four stations and they go very fast. Running time is maybe ~6 minutes. An express wouldn't save any time hardly. The slowest portion of the Lenox line is 110-96 and that's because of the position of the right of way which features three turns and therefore requires timers all over the place to enforce safe speed through them. Takes near 5 minutes to go 14 blocks north and a couple blocks east. But there's really nothing that can be done about that with the way that it was built. There used to be only the timers around the last curve onto Broadway itself. Therefore CPN-110 used to be a hot radar gun spot.
mark1447 Posted October 31, 2011 #11 Posted October 31, 2011 Looking at how wide Lenox Avenue is from 110-145 Street...I wonder why They didnt take advantage of this by adding 3 or 4 tracks bet 110-145 st....I read on nycsubway.org That back then they had trolley lines running on The street level so they did it as it is to avoid Disrupting the service...But Imagine had they put in at least 3 Tracks as follows..... Starting jus south of 110 st...3 tracks form..Heading up Lenox... 110 st local 116 st local 125 st Exp 135 st local The service would be In the Peak Direction trains Would Run Express 96 St-149/Concourse and Vice versa.....I think This would do wonders for the Long Journey from 241/WP...Dare I say We could have had A Super Express running as follows.. 241 ST-Gun Hill RD-E180 St-3 Ave/149-149/GC-125 ST-96 St! Umm, I hope you realize that sort of Express service will not happen. Those on the White Plains Road Line from 241 to 180th demand Bway/7th ave service, those from 180th-149th along Boston Rd/Southern Blvd/Westchester, demand Bway/7th Ave the most then the Lex Line. So, that wont happen. There WAS plan before to have the run express from 180th to Mott and the local all the way, but that was cancelled due to people on the Dyre branch crying about longer commute time. As for the (2)/(3) express along Lenox, while a SKIPSTOP service is the least you can see, but it wont happen. The current (2)/(3) local along Lenox is fine, just takes 6-8 mins to get from Mott/148th and 96th. I do wish Express service was there, but not happening. This is why when ever I gotta go to/from Brooklyn from the Bronx, i end up taking the (4)/(5) which is faster.
Fresh Pond Posted October 31, 2011 #12 Posted October 31, 2011 Myrtle-Broadway which is acutally worse Rogers Junction right after Franklin Av Helluva lot worse
Juelz4309 Posted October 31, 2011 Author #13 Posted October 31, 2011 O thanx for the feedback folks so far..Umm just to say Im not sure What the people want as far as which train should go where...I was just more or less saying Had the Line been built in such a way then the people would be used to it Already!... Im pretty sure it would shave off maybe 2 mintues of travel time..but in all actuality NONE of the Expresses really save you that much time anyway..were talking seconds in some cases..So To satisfy the Bronx folks I would just simply have had the 2 with peak service 94-149 and local to 241..Just a Thought...Its just that Even the 1 Line has 3 tracks...2 track lines are bad for so many obvious reasons..3 gives flexibility regardless if its used i Think...Never take the L OR G! lol
Fresh Pond Posted October 31, 2011 #14 Posted October 31, 2011 That 3rd track on the north of 96 is rarely used in service (if any). Its mainly used for trains going to/from the yard, and the occasional G.O Come to think of it, I don't think that middle track was ever used in any type of regular service
Kamen Rider Posted October 31, 2011 #15 Posted October 31, 2011 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters
SubwayGuy Posted October 31, 2011 #16 Posted October 31, 2011 Rogers Junction right after Franklin Av Helluva lot worse Rogers does not involve crossing trains in front of trains moving in the opposite direction. Myrtle and 143rd St Junctions do.
TriboroughBridge Posted November 2, 2011 #17 Posted November 2, 2011 Umm, I hope you realize that sort of Express service will not happen. Those on the White Plains Road Line from 241 to 180th demand Bway/7th ave service, those from 180th-149th along Boston Rd/Southern Blvd/Westchester, demand Bway/7th Ave the most then the Lex Line. So, that wont happen. There WAS plan before to have the run express from 180th to Mott and the local all the way, but that was cancelled due to people on the Dyre branch crying about longer commute time. Longer commute?! are you kidding me? dyre only has five stations, while WPR has over eight stations! This is my vision of the & line from 96 St & north. & the birth of two way express service in The Bronx. When the line hits Central Park West, the tracks will spread apart and create two express tracks which the would use, skipping 110 & 116, stopping at 125, skipping 135 then stopping again at 145. The would run local till 135 & then would run to the Pelham line running to Parkchester as a local, with the running express. at 135, the express tracks would dip down to give room for the local tracks for a quick turn under 138 St & because I love when tracks dip in a station after the stops at 145 it goes straight to 149 St-GC this station being a four track two island platform station, with on the local tracks & the of course, on the express tracks. The express track would dip down & the local track would raise a little at the south end, so the could turn ASAP. the would stop at 3 ave, then Simpson St (manhattan bound tracks would be on top of the dyre/wakfield, because it's not wide enough to have four tracks spread out like that on street level), Then E 180 Street, then running regular service on WPR. Please dont start giving me this "people south of 180 st need the (2)" crap! This is the reason for making simpson street an express station. also in Brooklyn on the Eastern Pkwy line, people demand more for Lex service even at local stations, but what do they do? they transfer at Utica Ave, Franklin Ave, Nevins Street & Borough Hall.
Guest lance25 Posted November 2, 2011 #18 Posted November 2, 2011 So basically, your idea is essentially to rebuild the IRT in the Bronx and northern Manhattan to facilitate your express service plans. Let me break down why it won't work. For starters, even if you could somehow rebuild the White Plains Road and Lenox Avenue lines for express service, unless the rest of the IRT is rebuilt to handle the additional trains, all you'll have is a bunch of express tracks and no trains using them. You can't have a new express line in the Bronx squeeze into the already cramped other portions of Seventh Avenue. We see how that won't work, right? Alright, let's try something else. Let's say the current setup in Manhattan was left alone, but we still got a full-fledged four track express-local setup in the Bronx. Now, let's say we go with your idea and have the is the WPR local and the the express since the latter is longer. However, here's the problem. I don't know if you're aware of this or not, but the Dyre stations have a significant amount of riders, even though it is such a short line. I've seen trains at or near capacity before reaching E 180 St southbound, so having the run local wouldn't make those trains any less packed. Then there's the likely opposition from riders. Remember, riders in the Bronx shot down the <2> idea in 2000 since they wanted 7th Avenue service and didn't want to transfer at 149 St or E 180 St for their train. No, that won't work either. While the current setup isn't perfect, it works the best in terms of moving the most people efficiently from the Bronx to Manhattan and vice-versa. A couple of notes that I feel I must touch upon. What stops at Lenox Terminal-148 St? I know that 145 St is close enough, but 148 St does see a slightly higher amount of riders than 145 St. Also on that note, why does the need to team up with the ? The Pelham line is fine the way it is right now. There's no need to mess with the current setup if it's already perfect the way it is. Plus, I don't know how many people would use a Pelham-7th Avenue service anyhow. Just my thoughts on the matter.
MikeGerald Posted November 2, 2011 #19 Posted November 2, 2011 The 125th Street-Lenox Avenue station is a shopping and employment district that many folks from the region use. The 135th Street-Lenox Avenue station is also the home of Harlem Hospital often a very important destination for many Bronx residents, as well as the site of a major public library. See looking at things from only a subway map perspective can be very mis-leading. Suggestions that #2 trains somehow skip important stations along the Lenox Avenue line tend to ignore just why folks use those stations. The suggestions that #3 trains somehow join #6 Pelham Bay and Parkchester trains, and that at or after 145th Street somehow #2 reach 149th Street-Grand Concourse - ignores geography. Here is something that has worked from the earliest days of the subways - 1904-5. Wishing and hoping it is different - ignores what was actually done, when it was done and why. Mike
SubwayGuy Posted November 2, 2011 #20 Posted November 2, 2011 Longer commute?! are you kidding me? dyre only has five stations, while WPR has over eight stations! Running time 241st->180th: 15 mins Running time Dyre->180th: 11 mins Running time 180th->149th-GC local: 15 mins Running time 180th->149th-GC express: 10 mins This is my vision of the & line from 96 St & north. & the birth of two way express service in The Bronx. When the line hits Central Park West, the tracks will spread apart and create two express tracks which the would use, skipping 110 & 116, stopping at 125, skipping 135 then stopping again at 145. I'm going to ignore the physical reasons why this would be just about impossible and not worth any amount of money in tunneling, laying track, and signalling and address it strictly from an operational perspective. Just because this is still ridiculous. Very Bad idea...you would hardly save any time at all doing it that way. You'd add a fourth set of timers to the area 96-110 to facilitate moves over the switch, then the trains would go express just fast enough to catch up to their leader at 135th St. If the trains are going to go express, the idea is that they'd pass their leader. If they can't do that, might as well run them local. The express would just get held out at 135th St. waiting for the local ahead of it to move out so that it could stop there. All you're doing is denying people service at 110th and 116th, and removing the "last available transfer" at 135th. I'm not sure what you mean about the 2 stopping at 145th considering it can't do that and still go to the Bronx, so I'm going to ignore that and assume it was a typo. The would run local till 135 & then would run to the Pelham line running to Parkchester as a local, with the running express. at 135, the express tracks would dip down to give room for the local tracks for a quick turn under 138 St & because I love when tracks dip in a station Ok now you just lost me...the 6 does not need its local service to be fed from a west side line. after the stops at 145 it goes straight to 149 St-GC this station being a four track two island platform station, with on the local tracks & the of course, on the express tracks. The express track would dip down & the local track would raise a little at the south end, so the could turn ASAP. Ah ok we've crossed that line into fantasy map territory the land where wet dreams and unused sidings prevail, and flying junctions are available for sale at the local 99 cent store along with beautiful women and redbirds... the would stop at 3 ave, then Simpson St (manhattan bound tracks would be on top of the dyre/wakfield, because it's not wide enough to have four tracks spread out like that on street level), Then E 180 Street, then running regular service on WPR. There is no reason to make Simpson Street an express stop, whatsoever. Please dont start giving me this "people south of 180 st need the (2)" crap! This is the reason for making simpson street an express station. also in Brooklyn on the Eastern Pkwy line, people demand more for Lex service even at local stations, but what do they do? they transfer at Utica Ave, Franklin Ave, Nevins Street & Borough Hall. There is no reason to make Simpson Street an express stop, whatsoever.
SubwayGuy Posted November 2, 2011 #21 Posted November 2, 2011 A couple of notes that I feel I must touch upon. What stops at Lenox Terminal-148 St? I know that 145 St is close enough, but 148 St does see a slightly higher amount of riders than 145 St. Also on that note, why does the need to team up with the ? The Pelham line is fine the way it is right now. There's no need to mess with the current setup if it's already perfect the way it is. Plus, I don't know how many people would use a Pelham-7th Avenue service anyhow. Just my thoughts on the matter. A 5 car station cannot safely be a terminal (unless there is a loop). Conductors cannot safely observe the platform when the train leaves.
Guest lance25 Posted November 2, 2011 #22 Posted November 2, 2011 Yeah, I realized that after I posted that comment. After giving it some thought, I kinda assumed (yeah, I know, don't assume) his "idea" included a rebuilt 145 St or the M7 and M102 would be severely overcrowded since 145 can't platform half a train and closing 148 St would shift those riders to the next available station, which would be 135 St.
TriboroughBridge Posted November 2, 2011 #23 Posted November 2, 2011 Wow, I didnt think I would cause this much disturbance. but I have a question, why wouldnt the pelham line need 7 ave access? isnt that one of the biggest complaints of that line that there is no west side access? Another question. I have never been to the bronx during rush hour, but during the day, I've seen the differences between Dyre Ave & WPR regarding ridership. By the time the reaches E 180 St, there are some seats still available. Now the , I usually catch at Pelham Pkwy when I get on, there are no seats left & there are plenty of standees. Now I know south of E 180 St, there is a bigger demand for service than , (the opposite problem Brooklyn has) which is why I said Simpson st would be an express station, because it's the busiest staion between E 180 & 3 ave. But north of E 180 it takes forever to get from any of those stations to midtown. I agree with you all, having the running express & all that mumbo jumbo I said before probably isnt a great idea, but if the ran express both directions, stopping at Simpson St & still had the four tracks when it reached 149 St, while avoiding conflict with the , dont you think it would save a hell of a lot of time for people on WPR north of E 180 St?
Kamen Rider Posted November 2, 2011 #24 Posted November 2, 2011 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters
SubwayGuy Posted November 2, 2011 #25 Posted November 2, 2011 Yeah, I realized that after I posted that comment. After giving it some thought, I kinda assumed (yeah, I know, don't assume) his "idea" included a rebuilt 145 St or the M7 and M102 would be severely overcrowded since 145 can't platform half a train and closing 148 St would shift those riders to the next available station, which would be 135 St. 145th cannot be rebuilt because lengthening the station northbound would foul the curves into 148th (Transit wants to avoid gap filler situations, especially at a relatively lightly used station like 145th). It cannot be lengthened southbound because it would foul the tracks and switches leading to WPR.
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