tprashad0719 Posted October 19, 2015 Share #5426 Posted October 19, 2015 Running on rails thank you brother everything should fall into place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted October 19, 2015 Share #5427 Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) OK here is THE final definitive answer (again) since people are still going back and forth about this issue. As PATCOman said, you can be hired off an open competitive C/R list and and (later) an open competitive T/O list, and have it be treated similar to a promotion. If you don't like it, fail a signal exam, can't stop overrunning stations or signals, or otherwise decide or are forced out of the T/O title, you absolutely 1000% have the option of going back provided you do so within your first year as a T/O, and that you passed probation as a C/R before you accepted appointment to T/O. This is all covered under RULE 9B in the first chapter of your rulebook, read it. There is only once circumstance where promotion may actually backfire on an employee. It is difficult to explain but I will try. That is when the following happens: -Employee in eligible title takes a promotional exam (#1 we'll call it). -Employee in eligible title takes a second promotional exam (#2 we'll call it). -Employee accepts promotion from exam #1 to new title. Their previous title was eligible for exam #2, but the new title they gained by being promoted from exam #1 is not. -Employee is called from exam #2. In order to accept promotion to the title from exam #2, they must first accept an on paper demotion back to their original title since their new title from exam #1 is not eligible to promote to the title from exam #2. In this exact circumstance, if the employee resigns or is demoted out of their title from exam #2, they would be ineligible to return to the title earned from exam #1 since they would have to return to their "previous title" in such an instance. Case in point: Conductor takes the tower operator and train operator exams. Gets promoted to train operator, then called for tower operator. Since train operator does not promote to tower operator, if this person decides they want to be a tower operator, they will have to accept an on paper demotion back to conductor to go to tower operator. If they don't make it as a tower operator, they would then go back to conductor, and cannot go back to train operator. The only other situation where someone can get hurt taking a promotion is if they do not complete probation in an eligible title. Case in point: Cleaner promotes to conductor, then is hired open competitive as a train operator before completing conductor probation. If they can't make it as a train operator, they would go back to cleaner, not conductor, since they never completed probation as a conductor. REMEMBER: These rules are specifically designed so they don't discourage people from taking promotions. However, the promotional lines must be adhered to at all times, and you must pass probation to establish permanent status in any title. Edited October 19, 2015 by SubwayGuy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dainty2200 Posted October 19, 2015 Share #5428 Posted October 19, 2015 Ooo wow..this is alot. But great and useful information. You guys here are the greatest So how would this work. You're a bus operator and you're on the list for open competitive for train operator. You get called for train operator however didnt finish probation. Lets say you dont get throught train operator training. Basically you're out of a job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted October 19, 2015 Share #5429 Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) Ooo wow..this is alot. But great and useful information. You guys here are the greatest So how would this work. You're a bus operator and you're on the list for open competitive for train operator. You get called for train operator however didnt finish probation. Lets say you dont get throught train operator training. Basically you're out of a job? Correct. If your previous title would be "back to the street" and you get sent back to your previous title, you can figure out the rest. That said, don't do that. The folks downtown will discourage you from doing it also. They will tell you to defer appointment to train operator to until you have completed bus operator probation. In rare cases, this may mean waiting beyond expiry of the current T/O list and having to take the next test. But even in that instance, at least you know you'll still have a job once you pass bus operator probation. Edited October 19, 2015 by SubwayGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tprashad0719 Posted October 19, 2015 Share #5430 Posted October 19, 2015 very good information, this is my last week on my current job..feeling nervous about starting school car..i hope i do well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeems1 Posted October 19, 2015 Share #5431 Posted October 19, 2015 @tprashad, keep positive thinking, its a new career, fresh start. Always think of rewards when you are done with school. I revert to one thing all the time and that is. I took the test from the get go for a reason because either i wasnt happy where i was or it was time to move on to other things and better longevity. Otherwise non of us would take a test for a new job/career if we didnt need the change! Best of luck, there is bunch of us who will do it as well. Hopefully down the line we can all look back and have no regrets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tprashad0719 Posted October 19, 2015 Share #5432 Posted October 19, 2015 @tprashad, keep positive thinking, its a new career, fresh start. Always think of rewards when you are done with school. I revert to one thing all the time and that is. I took the test from the get go for a reason because either i wasnt happy where i was or it was time to move on to other things and better longevity. Otherwise non of us would take a test for a new job/career if we didnt need the change! Best of luck, there is bunch of us who will do it as well. Hopefully down the line we can all look back and have no regrets! your letter should be in the mail soon bro, your absolutely right bro..got to keep a positive mind and just give it all you got.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running on Rails Posted October 19, 2015 Share #5433 Posted October 19, 2015 @Subwayguy...THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOU'RE VERY USEFUL INFORMATION!!! I feel relieved now to know this and I will go back to read my rule book. Thank you once again. @tprashad...enjoy this week with your family my brother and I'm pretty sure you have full support from your family because they know you're making a sacrifice to join a job where you can provide them a very descent living. Wish you good luck once again my brother and congrats on your new career. @mikeems1, to be honest with you....I love my job. Very easy, not much required but just to be on time to report to your job and the rest is piece of cake. Alot of people who are Conductors don't go to Train Operator for various reasons. Some get comfortable with seniority and don't wanna give it up. (Keep in mind that seniority on the tittle of Conductor moves up very quick) Train Operator seniority is much slower. Because alot of T/O's stay on that title. Conductor is a very good job, the only diference is the starting pay which differs from the starting pay for a T/O(Train Operators start at almost top pay). But eventually top pay for Conductors it's not that big of a diference. I personally know a Conductor who made $105k last year and others that I know have made more than that, of course, with overtime. But T/O's also make very good money. Alot of them hit 6 figures every year with overtime as well. It all depends what you like to do and what you feel comfortable doing. Many Conductors go to Train Operator because they wanna keep moving up ranks. For example, they go Train Operator. Once you become a Train Operator you're eligible to take promotional exams to either Train Dispatcher(TD) or Train Service Supervisor(TSS). Us Conductors can move up to either Tower Operator, Train Operator or Assistant Train Dispatcher(ATD). I can say that I will definitely miss being a Conductor if I was to go to Train Operator. The tittle of Train Operator requires much more concentration and studying while you're in school car. I'm glad that, God forbid, I fail the training I have an option of going back to my original title and atleast I keep the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tprashad0719 Posted October 20, 2015 Share #5434 Posted October 20, 2015 thank you very much running on rails appreciate it trust me bro....just nervous because im leaving my job after 10 years knowing i had great benifets but the pay sucked..im just over thinking this challenge due to hearing horror stories of people failing signal test or over running a station and they get canned and left without a job.. signal test seems to be a lot more of the stress, when the TSS give practice exams do they keep the exams? or you get to take it back home and study it? everything on the practice exams should be covered for the final exams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running on Rails Posted October 20, 2015 Share #5435 Posted October 20, 2015 Not a problem @tprashad0719. I know how you feel brother. I was shocked today to hear one of my classmates that came in as Conductors with me went to Train Operator and he tells me his class started with 10 and now down to 4. 6 people didn't make it for different reasons. And in the other class 4 people also didn't make it. I was very very shocked to hear that. I was like dam, is it really that intense? But I know that if you put an effort and a little sacrifice to study materials you should be ok. And no, you don't get to take practice exams home as far as I remember. They do tell you and highlight what to review. The guy I said who I saw today said they're having their 2nd signal test this friday, and he was studying for it at work. They do go over with you everything that's gonna be on the quizzes and exams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeems1 Posted October 20, 2015 Share #5436 Posted October 20, 2015 @runningonrails, wow only 10 people went into the class. Thats a small class. Havent seen anyone post of new letters going out. Do you know if the classes for the rest of this year are filled up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tprashad0719 Posted October 20, 2015 Share #5437 Posted October 20, 2015 Jesus Christ, so many failed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tprashad0719 Posted October 20, 2015 Share #5438 Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) why is there such a huge fail rate other then people failing there signal test and finding out this isnt the job they wanted? i just have a feeling people just took this exam for the hell of it and when they see what the job involves they just quit and go back to there office jobs? Edited October 20, 2015 by tprashad0719 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted October 20, 2015 Share #5439 Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) There is a high fail rate because a lot of people at this point in the exam (and this is no knock on you guys, this is a knock on those not posting to forums, keeping interest in it etc.) did not score well and some of them are lucky to have even scored that high at all. There is also an entitlement attitude among many of the newer employees - TA tells you that you have to walk tracks, TA tells you that you have to work all tours on all lines in your subdivision, and at various locations yet they complain about it. Also some people refuse to open a book and study, and some refuse to get experience to get their hands dirty. Schoolcar is both book learning and experiential/operational. If you can't do both, you will have trouble down here. You also need to separate things. Sometimes new employees are shown a safe shortcut. But if that is not the procedure, that is not what you do when you take your practical, nor is it what you answer a test question with, nor is it what you tell your instructor or the person doing your evaluation. Regardless of whether or not you will ever do it or not. Some people really can't keep things separate. Some people also learn by repetition, if they're not the ones asking to practice, say, cuts and adds 15 times in a row until they have it down pat, they're going to keep forgetting it every time they don't do it for a few days until they get their reps in to the point it's committed. So if you find down the road that you're that person, make sure you work it out with your instructors and get your reps in. You, not your instructors, ultimately have to take responsibility for your learning down here. Unfortunately many (not all) of the recent hires are unable to do that. Edited October 20, 2015 by SubwayGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Young+ Posted October 21, 2015 Share #5440 Posted October 21, 2015 There is a high fail rate because a lot of people at this point in the exam (and this is no knock on you guys, this is a knock on those not posting to forums, keeping interest in it etc.) did not score well ..... Also some people refuse to open a book and study, and some refuse to get experience to get their hands dirty. Schoolcar is both book learning and experiential/operational. If you can't do both, you will have trouble down here.... Some people also learn by repetition, if they're not the ones asking to practice... First, well said. Second, even though I did not take the T/O exam, I can agree and understand 100% where @SubwayGuy is coming from. As a first generation college student who holds a graduate degree, and a first generation CDL Class A recipient, at first it may be hard, just like anything else. However it should get easier as time progresses. Next, if you have a hard time learning a new concept, instead of taking the shortcut approach, which may be inappropriate, there may be some tips and/or different techniques to help overcome your obstacles. Here are some examples: -If you want to practice operating a subway car, you can check out the Guest Operator Program at the Shore Line Trolley Museum. -As far as repetition is concerned, since I did have a one-way 90 minute bus & subway commute to grad school, I made index cards to help me study while in commute. Therefore, you could draw the various signals on one side in the vertical position and write their definition on the back. After a certain point, the information should "click" in your mind. -If you have trouble with ascending and descending into a subway car, you could always practice climbing up and down at a local playground. Not that long ago, I went to Queens Blvd. and 82nd Avenue and measured the distance from the rail to the bottom of the storm door on the R33 9075, and my measurements are as follows: Total: 43 inches. Rail to step: 27 inches. Step to storm door: 16 inches. -Go through the 500+ pages of this topic and if you see any helpful information, copy it into Word and print it out for yourself. This way, you'll have something to refer to when you do not have as much time later on. In the end, I was willing to open a book, study and get my hands dirty and, looking back, it was definitely worth it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tprashad0719 Posted October 21, 2015 Share #5441 Posted October 21, 2015 Very informative guys,start date is 10/26 bit nervous. .but let's see how this works out When do you choose your divisions? If you live in Queens, ny would they still throw you in A division? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikNYC Posted October 22, 2015 Share #5442 Posted October 22, 2015 People also fail because school has a lot of quirks, and the odds are stacked up against any one class at times. If you fail it does not mean you are deaf dumb or blind. It can be a variable of reasons. Now if you did not study then that is your fault, but there are other reasons why one can fail during school car, that is really out of your control at times. Just do the best you can and everything should go well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tprashad0719 Posted October 23, 2015 Share #5443 Posted October 23, 2015 hey thanks for the replies, this forum has been very helpful to see whats im going against...just got to treat schoolcar like i was in college all over again cramming for exams and do well on my practicals..there is no turning back now since today is the last day im in my current job but i have to look at this as a opportunity that others want and now its time to be challenged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikNYC Posted October 23, 2015 Share #5444 Posted October 23, 2015 Yup. Also, read the entire school car thread. it will also help you along the way. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tprashad0719 Posted October 23, 2015 Share #5445 Posted October 23, 2015 Already did erik thanks for your help man ..how is training going so far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikNYC Posted October 24, 2015 Share #5446 Posted October 24, 2015 Already did erik thanks for your help man ..how is training going so far? Its a good reference to read and re-read during your training. The thread has helped me focus during my highs and lows of school car. Currently i'm posting, and all is well. This week we had full days of enhancement classes with a different TSS's at each location. Very resourceful and help the transition into being a better train operator. Like they told me... You will do just fine, being on this forum is a plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running on Rails Posted October 24, 2015 Share #5447 Posted October 24, 2015 @mikeems1, how you doing bro....it's when a group of T/O's get hired, usually it's starts out of a group of 40, 50 even sometimes up to 60 people. But they get assigned to different instructors by groups of 10. @tprashad0719, you get to pick you're division the 2nd day of orientation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tprashad0719 Posted October 24, 2015 Share #5448 Posted October 24, 2015 Thanks running on rails..i thought they throw you into any division? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeems1 Posted October 24, 2015 Share #5449 Posted October 24, 2015 @runningonrails, doing good thanks. Didnt think it would take this long to get the letter. Thougt it was moving rather quick now towards the end of the list, i can only assume that no more letters are going out till next year. Hope you're doing well as well! @tprashad, GL monday, break a leg and keep us posted as im sure you will! A new life starts for you and your family for the better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tprashad0719 Posted October 24, 2015 Share #5450 Posted October 24, 2015 Appreciate that mikeems,I'll ask around Monday regarding the list to keep you updated bro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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