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gtNovaBusRTS9369

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BS Williamsburg bridge if ever to have a bus rte needs it's OWN LINE!!!!!!!! NOT M15 CAUSE PPL WILL AVOID THOSE M15 TRIPS LIKE AN STD!!!!!!!! B39 just needs to return but extended to jackson heights for better connections and have short turns originating from williamsburg to jackson heights cause ppl will transfer to subway anyway.

 

Not again.

Everyone here already told you that your B39 plan will not work.

From my experience on B39 before the cut, most people just travels only between Williamsburg & Lower Manhattan.

It was also helpful when (J) was not running over Williamsburg Bridge, instead of taking overcrowded (J)(S) Bus, B39 was fairy empty.

Remember Mod/Adm is watching every thread and it might get :lock:ed for this important thread.

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Not again.

Everyone here already told you that your B39 plan will not work.

From my experience on B39 before the cut, most people just travels only between Williamsburg & Lower Manhattan.

It was also helpful when (J) was not running over Williamsburg Bridge, instead of taking overcrowded (J)(S) Bus, B39 was fairy empty.

Remember Mod/Adm is watching every thread and it might get :lock:ed for this important thread.

 

I already know why it won't work I said ALONE!!!!!!! It won't work due to traffic and lack of other connections. BUT if jackson heights were to get a line to 3rd ave hub via astoria(N) then the B39 would gain supporting cast to attack the traffic patterns this would be important should gas prices get high then ppl will look for a transit option. Alone as a single line it is weak but with supporting cast it can shine. The thing is BQE eases up north of jackson heights due to it splitting. Plus when I talk to ppl in person they seem to like the idea. Therefore I don't care about what other ppl on the internet have to say about that idea cause I left out details that went with it. B39 was empty DUE TO DUPLICATION!!!!!! Of the (J) but with the modification and supporting lines it would no longer duplicate therefore attract more ridership. There were some details with that idea that I left out so it's very incomplete.

 

 

One more thing this thread if for free thoughts on fixing bus service so I could care less about what harsh words others have to say cause the traffic and people in person say otherwise try expanding your thinking beyond the subway and block local bus and you will know what I mean.

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I already know why it won't work I said ALONE!!!!!!! It won't work due to traffic and lack of other connections. BUT if jackson heights were to get a line to 3rd ave hub via astoria(N) then the B39 would gain supporting cast to attack the traffic patterns this would be important should gas prices get high then ppl will look for a transit option. Alone as a single line it is weak but with supporting cast it can shine. The thing is BQE eases up north of jackson heights due to it splitting. Plus when I talk to ppl in person they seem to like the idea. Therefore I don't care about what other ppl on the internet have to say about that idea cause I left out details that went with it. B39 was empty DUE TO DUPLICATION!!!!!! Of the (J) but with the modification and supporting lines it would no longer duplicate therefore attract more ridership. There were some details with that idea that I left out so it's very incomplete.

 

 

 

Please don't be rude.

You seem to forgetting B39 and B51 riders cried foul when (MTA) Cuts this important bus routes.

B39 and B51 were majority important for ADA passengers because stations along that routes were not ADA accessible. There's elevator for (2)(3) at Borough Hall, but not for (4)(5)(R). There's no ADA Stations on Manhattan side of Williamsburg Bridge except Marcy Av

 

Even with high gas, some rich people still prefer to use cars because cars could go where buses cannot go.

 

Little off-topic, for example, most people in Long Island prefer cars because not all NICE Buses are 24-hours option.

 

Remember during Holiday Gridlock in last year, when news reporters told car drivers to take mass transit? Some drivers choose to drive along with their cars because they don't want to take subway or buses.

There are also places where buses are not allowed like beyond Roxbury Point in Rockaways Inlet, etc.

 

If there was bus going through BQE, there could be NIMBYs complaint about noise of bus as DUMBO NIMBYs complaint about B25 serving DUMBO all times, while NIMBYs in Greenwich Village cry foul for noise of tour guide giving tour on Double-Decker Tour Bus or Sunnyside NIMBYs crying foul for noise from LIRR, NJT and Amtrak Trains along Sunnyside Yard.

 

Remember there could be NIMBYs in Queens that don't want B39 bus.

 

B39 was not empty.

 

Most of time I gotten was full.

Even when I went to take picture of B39, it carried good amount of passengers.

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Please don't be rude.

You seem to forgetting B39 and B51 riders cried foul when (MTA) Cuts this important bus routes.

B39 and B51 were majority important for ADA passengers because stations along that routes were not ADA accessible. There's elevator for (2)(3) at Borough Hall, but not for (4)(5)(R). There's no ADA Stations on Manhattan side of Williamsburg Bridge except Marcy Av

 

Even with high gas, some rich people still prefer to use cars because cars could go where buses cannot go.

 

Little off-topic, for example, most people in Long Island prefer cars because not all NICE Buses are 24-hours option.

 

Remember during Holiday Gridlock in last year, when news reporters told car drivers to take mass transit? Some drivers choose to drive along with their cars because they don't want to take subway or buses.

There are also places where buses are not allowed like beyond Roxbury Point in Rockaways Inlet, etc.

 

If there was bus going through BQE, there could be NIMBYs complaint about noise of bus as DUMBO NIMBYs complaint about B25 serving DUMBO all times, while NIMBYs in Greenwich Village cry foul for noise of tour guide giving tour on Double-Decker Tour Bus or Sunnyside NIMBYs crying foul for noise from LIRR, NJT and Amtrak Trains along Sunnyside Yard.

 

Remember there could be NIMBYs in Queens that don't want B39 bus.

B39 was not empty.

 

Most of time I gotten was full.

Even when I went to take picture of B39, it carried good amount of passengers.

woah sorry if it came off as such sometimes even when I state a point it looks rude maybe I would edit it to get to the point without being rude sorry if I came off as such.

 

Not exactly intercity buses already use the BQE en route to chinatown those buses and additional ones from flushing chinatown shuttles. And buses from williamsburg, LES, and boro park also use BQE to get to Rockland county In addition the B24 already uses the BQE as well for a short stint maybe rerouting B24 to jackson heights and making the greenpoint routing a separate line may work better than the B39 which was actually just option 1 the reason was to keep B24 for the LIRR but maybe B24 would be better suited. So that may be a better implementation as the B24 has connections to the (L)(G)(J) already. You also didn't take into account the fact that buses already use the BQE frequently. Plus my B39 idea had other ideas attached to it I never mentioned Plus HOV would enhance reliability of access a ride,Monroe bus,Chinatown buses and the B24 as well. Plus if implemented well if may tame overcrowding indirectly on some subway lines and help some buses indirectly. Also For red higlight not exactly the transfer points at jackson heights allows for several connections to several buses that go all over that would actually take you to your destination(spoke hub style/grid) Also There are other items I didn't mention that go along with it as well. You also overestimate the powers NIMBYs have especially since the buses already travel to places I mentioned.

 

 

SOME rich ppl they are NOT the majority!!!!!! You have to drive the BQE to understand what I am conveying here.

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An idea for how the M1, M5, M6, M7 and M104 could have been restructured.

 

http://convert.neevia.com/docs/5e43d802-9caf-4984-8eb7-0ba2f540073f/M1-M5-M7-M104%20Restructuring.pdf

 

Like what RTS CNG Command suggested, M1 service to South Ferry is retained but Rush Hours only. (I started making a schedule for it, but I never finished...) There's less service to South Ferry, mostly Limited service only. During PM Rush Hour, there is now M1 Limited Service in both directions, which is just some local trips turned Limited (right now there's downtown local service every 5 minutes, which would become 10... you don't think I'm giving M1 pax from 132nd St to 110th St and below a raw deal, do you?)

 

The M5 is cut back to Houston St. And 138th St. Yeah, it would be a LOT shorter compared to its current incarnation. And because of this, it loses it Limited service and is fully local. The M104 replaces it on the North end. This one probably isn't totally necessary, but I think the M104 would be a better candidate for service up there. It gives people a ride up Broadway alongside the M104, but I have it on a small diversion to serve its current terminal.

 

The Bx33 extension I've gone over already. If extended, it could be moved to Manhattanville, and it could interline with the M5. The only thing is, Hamiliton Place as is doesn't really have space to serve as layover for two bus routes, unless somebody ponies up some parking spots, which won't happen soon.

 

Now, you're wondering if the M5 is cut back from South Ferry and it loses it Limited, what replaces it in this regard? Not the M6.... but the M7. No, really. An M7 Limited would provide faster service along Amsterdam/Columbus and continue the Limited service the M5 has. Plus the M7 to South Ferry would more-or-less replicate the M6, which the M5 doesn't really do heading Southbound.

 

So the M7 is rerouted:

 

7th Av -> 34th St -> Broadway -> 17th St -> Park Av South -> Broadway

 

To still follow the M6 for the most part. The Pedestrian Plaza on Broadway runs from somewhere in the 50s down to 33rd St, so the (DOT) would have to re-open Broadway to traffic from 34th St to 33rd St.

 

I wanna run the M7 Limited Rush Hours only with local M7s ending at Union Square, but I can't really think of a way to add new M7 LTD runs and not have buses carrying air.

 

(By the way, the M7 would end at Union Square overnight)

 

Also, I don't know what buses were at what depot before Mother Clara Hale closed for Rehab, but if it were still open the M1, M2, M3 and M7 would be there. I know the M2 and M3 seem like weird choices, but they can interline with each other and the M1 at 8th St, and the M1 can interline with the M7 at 147th St and at South Ferry during Rush Hour.

 

Still, I don't think interacting this plan now would do any good, I think it's too little too late because the ridership for these routes have all sunk (as per the 2010 Service Reductions Evaluation) and it's probably not coming back anytime soon. At least not easily. And this plan is probably more trouble then it's worth, anyway.

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An idea for how the M1, M5, M6, M7 and M104 could have been restructured.

 

http://convert.neevia.com/docs/5e43d802-9caf-4984-8eb7-0ba2f540073f/M1-M5-M7-M104%20Restructuring.pdf

 

Like what RTS CNG Command suggested, M1 service to South Ferry is retained but Rush Hours only. (I started making a schedule for it, but I never finished...) There's less service to South Ferry, mostly Limited service only. During PM Rush Hour, there is now M1 Limited Service in both directions, which is just some local trips turned Limited (right now there's downtown local service every 5 minutes, which would become 10... you don't think I'm giving M1 pax from 132nd St to 110th St and below a raw deal, do you?)

 

The M5 is cut back to Houston St. And 138th St. Yeah, it would be a LOT shorter compared to its current incarnation. And because of this, it loses it Limited service and is fully local. The M104 replaces it on the North end. This one probably isn't totally necessary, but I think the M104 would be a better candidate for service up there. It gives people a ride up Broadway alongside the M104, but I have it on a small diversion to serve its current terminal.

 

The Bx33 extension I've gone over already. If extended, it could be moved to Manhattanville, and it could interline with the M5. The only thing is, Hamiliton Place as is doesn't really have space to serve as layover for two bus routes, unless somebody ponies up some parking spots, which won't happen soon.

 

Now, you're wondering if the M5 is cut back from South Ferry and it loses it Limited, what replaces it in this regard? Not the M6.... but the M7. No, really. An M7 Limited would provide faster service along Amsterdam/Columbus and continue the Limited service the M5 has. Plus the M7 to South Ferry would more-or-less replicate the M6, which the M5 doesn't really do heading Southbound.

 

So the M7 is rerouted:

 

7th Av -> 34th St -> Broadway -> 17th St -> Park Av South -> Broadway

 

To still follow the M6 for the most part. The Pedestrian Plaza on Broadway runs from somewhere in the 50s down to 33rd St, so the (DOT) would have to re-open Broadway to traffic from 34th St to 33rd St.

 

I wanna run the M7 Limited Rush Hours only with local M7s ending at Union Square, but I can't really think of a way to add new M7 LTD runs and not have buses carrying air.

 

(By the way, the M7 would end at Union Square overnight)

 

Also, I don't know what buses were at what depot before Mother Clara Hale closed for Rehab, but if it were still open the M1, M2, M3 and M7 would be there. I know the M2 and M3 seem like weird choices, but they can interline with each other and the M1 at 8th St, and the M1 can interline with the M7 at 147th St and at South Ferry during Rush Hour.

 

Still, I don't think interacting this plan now would do any good, I think it's too little too late because the ridership for these routes have all sunk (as per the 2010 Service Reductions Evaluation) and it's probably not coming back anytime soon. At least not easily. And this plan is probably more trouble then it's worth, anyway.

 

Well first off the M7 would have to use 32nd Street to get to Broadway because there's no way to turn onto it from 34th Street, and 33rd Street runs westbound.

 

Secondly, there is no left turn from Chambers Street onto Lafayette because the light there need to favor cars coming off the Brooklyn Bridge as much as possible as to not back it up.

 

But aside from those:

- I like the idea of sending rush hour M1 limiteds down to South Ferry.

- M5 needs limited service in Midtown. Many Riverside Drive residents rely on that, and making it serve all stops in Midtown would slow it down severely.

- On the contrary, the M7 doesn't need limited in Midtown. Having a limited along Columbus and Amsterdam Avenues wouldn't be bad though.

- Send the M104 back to the UN or at least Grand Central. It helped provide major relief for the M42.

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Well first off the M7 would have to use 32nd Street to get to Broadway because there's no way to turn onto it from 34th Street, and 33rd Street runs westbound.

 

Secondly, there is no left turn from Chambers Street onto Lafayette because the light there need to favor cars coming off the Brooklyn Bridge as much as possible as to not back it up.

 

But aside from those:

- I like the idea of sending rush hour M1 limiteds down to South Ferry.

- M5 needs limited service in Midtown. Many Riverside Drive residents rely on that, and making it serve all stops in Midtown would slow it down severely.

- On the contrary, the M7 doesn't need limited in Midtown. Having a limited along Columbus and Amsterdam Avenues wouldn't be bad though.

- Send the M104 back to the UN or at least Grand Central. It helped provide major relief for the M42.

 

M7 could follow DOT M6 pattern via 7th Av, 23rd St, 5th Av, then same route as current M5 route.

 

M7 North could go on Cetre St-Lafayette St to 9th St, follows regular M7 route on 6th Av.

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  • 2 weeks later...

To keep this thread going... I found two interesting docs

 

One is a report analyzing all the Green Bus Lines from the University Transportation Research Center @ CCNY, with ideas to improve the routes, from Late 2000.

 

Another is a report from August 2003 about all the Private Bus Lines (with the odd exception of the Command Bus Routes), based on a DOT Ridership survey.

 

There are a lot of ideas between the two reports. Some have been implemented by the (MTA) in the past few years (Merging the Q45 and Q47, Q6 and Q10 LTD, Q8 extension to Gateway Center Mall, etc.)

 

Some have been thrown around by a few people (Q7 to Green Acres Mall, a through-route on Linden Blvd to Rockaway Blvd (A), the Q9 extended to replace the Rockaway Blvd branch of the Q10, etc.)

 

And some ideas I've never seen before (Q111 branches to JFK Cargo Area and Green Acres, B12 cut back from City Line to Broadway Junction.... and replaced by the Q112, extending the Q33 to Woodside via the Q53, etc.)

 

Some of these ideas are pretty interesting, to say the least. What do you think of 'em? B)

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To keep this thread going... I found two interesting docs

 

One is a report analyzing all the Green Bus Lines from the University Transportation Research Center @ CCNY, with ideas to improve the routes, from Late 2000.

 

Another is a report from August 2003 about all the Private Bus Lines (with the odd exception of the Command Bus Routes), based on a DOT Ridership survey.

 

There are a lot of ideas between the two reports. Some have been implemented by the (MTA) in the past few years (Merging the Q45 and Q47, Q6 and Q10 LTD, Q8 extension to Gateway Center Mall, etc.)

 

Some have been thrown around by a few people (Q7 to Green Acres Mall, a through-route on Linden Blvd to Rockaway Blvd (A), the Q9 extended to replace the Rockaway Blvd branch of the Q10, etc.)

 

And some ideas I've never seen before (Q111 branches to JFK Cargo Area and Green Acres, B12 cut back from City Line to Broadway Junction.... and replaced by the Q112, extending the Q33 to Woodside via the Q53, etc.)

 

Some of these ideas are pretty interesting, to say the least. What do you think of 'em? ;)

 

Earlier in this thread I mentioned some ideas which seem to have been supported by these documents as well, such as extending the Q23 into LGA proper, discontinuing the Q34 in favor of additional service on the Q25 (south of Flushing) and a revival of the Q14 (north of Flushing), and discontinuing weekend service on the Q67.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I've always wondered what Limited-buses could be efficient on certain lines.

 

Some of mine are:

 

Bx5: (Rush Hours, Peak Direction) as some buses skip stops due to crowding.

Bx19: This bus goes everywhere in the Bronx, so why is it only a local?

Bx39: (Weekdays and Saturdays (maybe)) When the Bx41 served Wakefield, Limiteds ran there...Bx39 doesnt exactly need it, but it could help.

 

M1: (Weekdays) Maybe could benefit 5 Av. during Middays w/ the M2 LTD.

 

Anyone have any other suggestions?

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I've always wondered what Limited-buses could be efficient on certain lines.

 

Some of mine are:

 

Bx5: (Rush Hours, Peak Direction) as some buses skip stops due to crowding.

Bx19: This bus goes everywhere in the Bronx, so why is it only a local?

Bx39: (Weekdays and Saturdays (maybe)) When the Bx41 served Wakefield, Limiteds ran there...Bx39 doesnt exactly need it, but it could help.

 

M1: (Weekdays) Maybe could benefit 5 Av. during Middays w/ the M2 LTD.

 

Anyone have any other suggestions?

 

Simpson welcome aboard. I know you are new here. There was a recent related thread on bus ideas/proposals as limited stop bus ideas has been discussed to death so i have merged it into this topic.

 

So some replies.

 

BX5 needs better headways first (i.e more service before we talk about limited service) I am sure our Bronx residents can better reply than me.

 

BX19-Agree 1,000%. Why has this busy route not gotten limited stop service since yesterday lol. At least all day weekdays.

 

BX39-Similar to the BX5 sounds like it needs better headways first. I would quicker restore BX41 service to 241, then create a

Limited BX39.

 

M1-On expanding M1 limited stop service most urgent is that the M1 weekend service along 5th/Madison Aves. at least IMO to Penn Station or ideally 8th Street/4th Avenue is restored first.

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Simpson welcome aboard. I know you are new here. There was a recent related thread on bus ideas/proposals as limited stop bus ideas has been discussed to death so i have merged it into this topic.

 

So some replies.

 

BX5 needs better headways first (i.e more service before we talk about limited service) I am sure our Bronx residents can better reply than me.

 

BX19-Agree 1,000%. Why has this busy route not gotten limited stop service since yesterday lol. At least all day weekdays.

 

BX39-Similar to the BX5 sounds like it needs better headways first. I would quicker restore BX41 service to 241, then create a

Limited BX39.

 

M1-On expanding M1 limited stop service most urgent is that the M1 weekend service along 5th/Madison Aves. at least IMO to Penn Station or ideally 8th Street/4th Avenue is restored first.

 

I'll take a crack at replying.

 

Bx5 and Bx39: Both need better headways. For the Bx39, create a short-turn between Pelham Parkway and Clason's Point since most riders ride between those points.

 

Bx19: It's better off being split into two routes (with both of them terminating at Westchester Avenue or Hunts Point Avenue) as opposed to a limited service. You also have to thank the elevated (2)(5) lines for preventing the Bx19's LTD service.

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I'll take a crack at replying.

 

Bx5 and Bx39: Both need better headways. For the Bx39, create a short-turn between Pelham Parkway and Clason's Point since most riders ride between those points.

 

Bx19: It's better off being split into two routes (with both of them terminating at Westchester Avenue or Hunts Point Avenue) as opposed to a limited service. You also have to thank the elevated (2)(5) lines for preventing the Bx19's LTD service.

 

Cotb i agree with the BX5 and BX39 suggestions. However on the BX19 from the few times i rode it from say 145th/Lenox-Fordham & Southern Blvd there quiet a few riders mainly seniors and few in wheelchairs who ride from say Fordham-145th St. So they maybe screaming on losing a 1-seat ride to Central Harlem. Not to mention most of the nearby (2)(5) and (6) stations are still not ADA accessible. Thus why a BX19 limited is probably best suited in this situation.

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Cotb i agree with the BX5 and BX39 suggestions. However on the BX19 from the few times i rode it from say 145th/Lenox-Fordham & Southern Blvd there quiet a few riders mainly seniors and few in wheelchairs who ride from say Fordham-145th St. So they maybe screaming on losing a 1-seat ride to Central Harlem. Not to mention most of the nearby (2)(5) and (6) stations are still not ADA accessible. Thus why a BX19 limited is probably best suited in this situation.

 

I'm a daily Bx5 rider...The headways need to be improved too, but AM rush hour service on this line sucks because its the only bus that runs down Story Ave w/ a connection to the Bx27, which goes to the same terminal at Southern Bl.-W. Farms Rd.

PM rush isn't better, all the buses get crowded at the first stop w/ most passengers coming from the (2)(5). The next stop is Hunts Point Av., where the (6)<6> are, so more riders there too. Leads to some buses going from the first stop straight over the bridge to Soundview, skipping Hunts Point.

Think that bus needs at least an AM/PM rush LTD service, similar to the Bx36, or just more frequent buses could help.

Also, would the (2)(5) trains hinder LTD Service on the Bx19? My only thought is to have the LTD service split in two sections:

1) Between 149 St.-Gerard Av. and Southern Bl.-Westchester Av.

2) Between Southern Bl.-174 St. and Bronx Pk. (Northern Term.)

Local Service in Manhattan.

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Cotb i agree with the BX5 and BX39 suggestions. However on the BX19 from the few times i rode it from say 145th/Lenox-Fordham & Southern Blvd there quiet a few riders mainly seniors and few in wheelchairs who ride from say Fordham-145th St. So they maybe screaming on losing a 1-seat ride to Central Harlem. Not to mention most of the nearby (2)(5) and (6) stations are still not ADA accessible. Thus why a BX19 limited is probably best suited in this situation.

 

What he is saying is use (5)(2) if you want LTD stop service. Plus some short turns for the manhattan bx19 segment would do wonders for on-time performance. Remember ADA riders aren't the majority of overall riders period BUT LTD stop service would save money in a way.

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