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Anyone think the (2) and (5) should swap on the north end permanently?


GreatOne2k

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During the PM rush many <5> trains do not even go to 238 St, they end at Gun Hill Rd.

 

Many people will not even bother transferring to the (5), they will transfer to the (4) making that line even more crowded. One could make the case that the current setup encourages the (2) and (4) to be packed and the (5) to be empty (which of course makes it easier for MTA to cut service and add to the crowding of the (2) and (4)). During parts of weekday evenings the (5) is more frequent than the (2) (10 instead of 12 minutes).

 

Woodlawn Heights may like this GO. Since the Bx34 was discontinued on weekends, those riders don't have any direct access to the (4), MTA wants then to use the Bx31 to 233 St, the current GO gives Woodlawn Heights a direct transfer to the (5) at 233 St.

 

The (4) train does not get crowded because some people skip the (5). It gets crowded because its heavily used, and a lot of those passangers are those who go on the Jerome Line (or if heading to Brooklyn, the Livonia Line which then connect with the (3) at Utica). When people see a (5) they get on it. The (5) is like a supplement to the (4) for those who just want any stops between Nevins and Mott. The (5) does see ridership a lot for those who go on the WPR.

 

 

For the (5) ending at Gun Hill, the reason why it ends there is to help prevent delays on the (2) heading to 241st, so people just transfer at Gun Hill for 241st or 238th. The (5) usually stalls at M track of 238th due to car moves at the yard.

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and like I said before a eastern pkwy express & an eastern pkwy local have a tendency to meet up at atlantic....

 

If it's scheduled for that to happen, I don't know.... maybe just coincidence, but it is a common occurrence.....

 

This is so true! When I'm on the (5) & it's held at President St, depending on the time it takes for the (5) to leave, is how I figure out if it's a (3) or (4). Of course if it's a shorter amount of time, then it's gotta be the (3).

 

But if it is a (3), then by the time the (5) gets to Atlantic it catches up with the (3).

 

Also, maybe this is crazy, but I wish the Nostrand Ave track would rise between the Eastern Parkway Local & Express tracks, that way the (5) wouldn't have to conflict with the (3). As oppose to coming in from the side & having the (5) cross the local track if it doesnt need to. & the same thing southbound.

 

Let me know what you think about this.

 

Your station is Sterling... fine.

My station is Church av... and there are easily more people boarding 2's than 5's..... Church av is where you start to see people squeezing/pushing onto trains...

 

Thank the good folks out in the rockaways for that extra crowding :mad:

 

Yes at Church Ave I know for a fact, that there is a bigger demand for the (2).

 

& that's another thing, why do people take the Q35 to Brooklyn when they have the (A)? is it shorter? less crowded? (which I highly doubt)

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I couldn't have described it better. You saved me from having to type out another history lesson about the White Plains Road line. As for the (2) and (3) terminal swap back in the eighties remember the (2) had two maintenance barns at the time, 239 and New Lots, while the (3) had no barn of it's own. Made it easier for Car Equipment to maintain the Lenox fleet.

 

Oh, so this is pretty much the same thing that happened in 1987 with the (N)/® swap?

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Some of you who have problems with certain discussions need to stay out of them instead of making dumb comments.

 

I think its not a smart idea and i work down here..

 

I also think some of you take this wayyy to serious since im sure most of you dont even work for these people..

 

Is that a dumb comment?

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why do people take the Q35 to Brooklyn when they have the (A)? is it shorter? less crowded? (which I highly doubt)

 

That's just it... on the B116th end, they don't have the A outright.

They have a shuttle to the A; which slows down & drags out the commute, regardless if they need downtown brooklyn or manhattan....

 

for those folks to take the Q35 to the IRT, it's a more streamlined (and a faster) commute.

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I think its not a smart idea and i work down here..

 

I also think some of you take this wayyy to serious since im sure most of you dont even work for these people..

 

Is that a dumb comment?

 

I wouldnt imagine the MTA would be dumb to grab ideas off this forum.. At least the bad ones.. The good ones are good to grab.

 

As for the OP, the only reason why we are suggesting it wont work is because it wont.. And to help prevent flames, since a LOT of people bring in idea and arguments blow in!

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I wouldnt imagine the MTA would be dumb to grab ideas off this forum.. At least the bad ones.. The good ones are good to grab.

 

As for the OP, the only reason why we are suggesting it wont work is because it wont.. And to help prevent flames, since a LOT of people bring in idea and arguments blow in!

 

Yeah i can see them looking here from tiem to time no shock. Still i see nothing wrong with somebody giving thier opinion on some people who eat think and sleep trains...

 

If it bothers you hey sorry sometimes truth hurts...

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Still i see nothing wrong with somebody giving thier opinion on some people who eat think and sleep trains...

 

If it bothers you hey sorry sometimes truth hurts...

 

Eat think and sleep trains? Really? I do have other interests.

 

Saying that this isn't a good plan isn't the problem, statements like the above are.

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Pretty much yes, except that the (3) had a yard already, one too small for all its fleet. Having another small yard in Brooklyn made up for it.

The (3) line had Lenox Yard where trains could be stored. What they lacked was a barn at Lenox to actually repair their fleet of trains. Because their fleet consisted of many types of equipment a nine car train, when split, might have cars repaired at 240th, 239th, and E 180th yards depending on car type.. Now imagine trying to run full service every day when much of your fleet is spread out in different IRT yards and the shop at 207th St. Very inefficient. Things improved when the line went all R62A as they finally had a uniform fleet.

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Yeah i can see them looking here from tiem to time no shock. Still i see nothing wrong with somebody giving thier opinion on some people who eat think and sleep trains...

 

If it bothers you hey sorry sometimes truth hurts...

 

Nah i dont see it bothering me.

 

While its ok to bring in ideas, i wouldnt imagine how these ideas would look like if they were a reality. All of this will cost the MTA money and may anger passengers if service is altered or removed.

 

The MTA doesn't care what we think as buffs, rather care about everyone out there.

 

Yeah its a dream to have changes, i do have some, but even that won't happen. It could.. but similar.

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In the end, its about what is most smooth for them to run logistically and economically, something has to be glaringly wrong or glaringly better beyond a reasonable doubt for they to do anything for the customers. Most of the 'buff' ideas pitched here have issues with at least one of the three (either logistically worse, economically worse, or it really isn't overwhelmingly better than what the status quo is). For something here to actually work, it has to work on all three counts.

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Eat think and sleep trains? Really? I do have other interests.

 

Saying that this isn't a good plan isn't the problem, statements like the above are.

 

Oh im sorry was i directing this comment to you? I didnt mention Your handle did I?

 

Thats your opinion if you feel that way, im sure there are others who do and others who dont.

 

Free country now still, you are better of having people say how they feel in front of you than smiling in yer face and talking behind your back ....

 

Think about that.

 

Anyway like i said this deuce and Five swap isnt a good idea...

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I worked on the (2) last night and I can tell you, it would be a terrible idea to swap terminals permanently. The (2) was full of people for the majority of the Bronx portion of the line so to change things would be disasterous. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

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I worked on the (2) last night and I can tell you, it would be a terrible idea to swap terminals permanently. The (2) was full of people for the majority of the Bronx portion of the line so to change things would be disasterous. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

Agreed. I saw the last (2) train to 241st Street passing by the West Farms station and that train was packed. Im sure a lot of those passengers are customers trying to go from Bwy/7th/Lenox to the White Plains Road.

 

These changes are not good.

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One "problem" with the subways is that it is not "that" easy to determine the origins and destinations of the riders, except by some proxy methods.

 

Most riders swipe their MetroCards upon entry to a bus or subway station - meaning that a statistic of that event is created. Kind of similar to the days when there were tokens - one could count how many tokens were captured at each given in hourly periods. It can be difficult to determine when that person "left the system". The rough method is too look for where that same MetroCard reappears sometime later in the day/night. Several assumptions come into play as to the travel behavior of the riders.

 

Often in subway stations or on the buses, there are MTA workers with their clipboards - who are looking at the crowdedness of trains or buses, and often when riding the buses when, where and how many folks enter and leave the buses. Then there are rider surveys, observations of travelers, and other really not the best methods - to try to determine how and where riders travel.

 

Yes, general statements can be made: "In the mornings #7 train riders are generally headed to Manhattan. Many of those riders transfer to other lines to complete their journeys, or exit at Manhattan stations." Anything more detailed than that statement is difficult.

 

It is easy to say that the Lexington Avenue line, the E and F lines, the #7 line are the most over-crowded subway lines (a long time historical pattern), and lines like the L-train have had increased ridership. It is easy to say that certain stations have so many folks enter the station in a given hour - but have no specific clues as to where those riders are going. Refined and more specific statements are not that easy to make. They enter into the area of conjecture - not entirely true, but possibly not false either - no one can REALLY know with any certainty.

 

Until the day when individual riders have to swipe upon entry to the subways, AND have to swipe to exit the subways - and those events are captured - then it will be safer to say where the riders actually do travel to/from, where/when/how, etc. Now the simple question is - do the "we" really want that kind of observation and statistics captured about us?

 

Mike

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Agreed. I saw the last (2) train to 241st Street passing by the West Farms station and that train was packed. Im sure a lot of those passengers are customers trying to go from Bwy/7th/Lenox to the White Plains Road.

 

These changes are not good.

 

Did you see the ridership on the last (5) train to Dyre?

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Did you see the ridership on the last (5) train to Dyre?

 

No, but about the 2nd day of the G/O last month, it was pretty packed.

 

Other then that, I can tell you this...

 

After 9 or 10PM, the entire line is light (Non-G/o related). Thats why its cut to 180th Street so it runs as a shuttle. While the (2) is packed. More then Half from Bway - 7th Ave / Lenox and the other half those at Mott Avenue coming off the (4) (Station fills due to 15-20min headway on the (2)). But those coming off the (4) are pretty much those getting off South of Tremont, mainly Westchester Ave.

 

As the (2) gets to 180th Street, it lightens (For connecting (5) Shuttle), but is still fill due to most of those passengers coming from the West Side.

 

But even that doesn't mean the (2)/ (5) should be swapped ether way.

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No, but about the 2nd day of the G/O last month, it was pretty packed.

 

Other then that, I can tell you this...

 

After 9 or 10PM, the entire line is light (Non-G/o related). Thats why its cut to 180th Street so it runs as a shuttle. While the (2) is packed. More then Half from Bway - 7th Ave / Lenox and the other half those at Mott Avenue coming off the (4) (Station fills due to 15-20min headway on the (2)). But those coming off the (4) are pretty much those getting off South of Tremont, mainly Westchester Ave.

 

As the (2) gets to 180th Street, it lightens (For connecting (5) Shuttle), but is still fill due to most of those passengers coming from the West Side.

 

But even that doesn't mean the (2)/ (5) should be swapped ether way.

 

That question was to see if the extra 3 evening Dyre-Bowling Green weekday round trips from this GO(S/B 10:13, 10:26, 10:38, N/B 11:20, 11:35, 11:50) could become permanent to relieve crowding on the (2) and (4). The 11:20pm (5) would have to be moved up to 11:18pm in order to be right in front of the (4) to prevent an empty (5) (currently it is right behind, if the (4) is on time at BG at 11:19pm, the extra (5) isn't going to help much in Manhattan).

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That question was to see if the extra 3 evening Dyre-Bowling Green weekday round trips from this GO(S/B 10:13, 10:26, 10:38, N/B 11:20, 11:35, 11:50) could become permanent to relieve crowding on the (2) and (4). The 11:20pm (5) would have to be moved up to 11:18pm in order to be right in front of the (4) to prevent an empty (5) (currently it is right behind, if the (4) is on time at BG at 11:19pm, the extra (5) isn't going to help much in Manhattan).

 

Well on the Lexington Line, the (4) gets priority over the (5), which is why the (4) is first on the move.

 

Also where are you getting those additional 3 evening Dyre/BG service? I dont see that listed under the timetable unless those are the G/O ones?

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Well on the Lexington Line, the (4) gets priority over the (5), which is why the (4) is first on the move.

 

Also where are you getting those additional 3 evening Dyre/BG service? I dont see that listed under the timetable unless those are the G/O ones?

 

Those are the GO ones, it wouldn't make sense to have a (5) scheduled at 11:20pm as regular service when the (4) is scheduled to be there at 11:19pm. The (5) has a better chance of ending up empty, unless people know that it's coming and don't want to make another transfer. Or unless that (4) happens to be overcrowded and everyone doesn't get on.

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