Q101viaSteinway Posted November 10, 2011 Share #1 Posted November 10, 2011 Q21 to have LTD service and serve Arvene Bx30 travel path change in Co Op city http://www.mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/111114_1115_BUS.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted November 10, 2011 Share #2 Posted November 10, 2011 Q21 to have LTD service and serve Arvene Bx30 travel path change in Co Op city http://www.mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/111114_1115_BUS.pdf Thanks for update :tup:(Q101). Actually this is a good idea to have the "Q21" operate to Arvene and the new condos/apartments down there. Personally the Lindenwood loop should be canned IMO and replaced with the (Q41). As far as the (BX30) I am sure this is a compromise by the based on hundreds of complaints they got when they changed all of the COOP bus service during the June 2011 doomsday cuts. Now if it were up to me, I would create a (BX38) limited running along Gun Hill Road and have it serve all of COOP between Edson/Bartow and Bay Plaza during times it runs. While the BX28 ends at it's current post June 2010 COOP terminal. And extended when the "BX38" is not running to all of COOP. Just my takes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious2train Posted November 10, 2011 Share #3 Posted November 10, 2011 To elaborate on the opening post: The Q21 gets a Peak Rush Hour Limited that bypasses Lindenwood. It's being re-routed from B116 St in Rockaway Park to B69 St in Averne instead. The Bx30 is going to serve Asch Loop (Section 4) again, reverting it to its pre-June 2010 service pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted November 10, 2011 Share #4 Posted November 10, 2011 To elaborate on the opening post: The Q21 gets a Peak Rush Hour Limited that bypasses Lindenwood. It's being re-routed from B116 St in Rockaway Park to B69 St in Averne instead. The Bx30 is going to serve Asch Loop (Section 4) again, reverting it to its pre-June 2010 service pattern. I know Mysterious. Just offering my reactions/comments above on the Jan. 2012 changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious2train Posted November 10, 2011 Share #5 Posted November 10, 2011 I was trying to save people the trouble of digging through the long pdf to find out the specifics The Bx30 change is good, seeing as how Asch Loop is stuck only with the Bx23 and Bx26 presently. The Q21 wasn't used all that much in Rockaway Park compared to the Q53, and it's nice to see the Eastern part of the peninsula get some kind of bus service to civilization - I mean the rest of Queens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted November 10, 2011 Share #6 Posted November 10, 2011 Why run the Q21 LTD? Just have people use the Q53. Rerouting it to Arverne is a good idea, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted November 11, 2011 Share #7 Posted November 11, 2011 I was trying to save people the trouble of digging through the long pdf to find out the specifics The Bx30 change is good, seeing as how Asch Loop is stuck only with the Bx23 and Bx26 presently. The Q21 wasn't used all that much in Rockaway Park compared to the Q53, and it's nice to see the Eastern part of the peninsula get some kind of bus service to civilization - I mean the rest of Queens. You definitely helped me out, since my computer can't open PDFs at the moment. So right now, the Q21 runs every 30 minutes during rush hours, right? So during that time, all Q21s would bypass Lindenwood and make limited stops down Woodhaven Blvd, right? On a side note, I have a map that shows a Q21A that ran from Euclid Avenue to Far Rockaway. I assume it got cut because it parallelled the . So what would be the turnaround in Arverne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious2train Posted November 11, 2011 Share #8 Posted November 11, 2011 The Q11 short-turn buses between Elmhurst and Piktin Avenue/Cross Bay Blvd will be used for the Q21 LTD instead. The Q21 local will be unaffected. The LTD will run every 15 minutes. It will run from 5:45 to 7:45 AM out of Arvene, and 4:20 to 6:20 PM out of Elmhurst. The Q21 will turn around like so: Rockaway Beach Blvd -> B 69 St -> Beach Front Road -> B 67 St -> Terminal at B 67 St and Rockaway Beach Blvd New stops along Rockaway Beach Blvd: B 91 St B 88 St B 86 St B 84 St B 81 St B 79 St B 77 St (Northbound only) B 75 St B 73 St B 69 St B 67 St Every stop except for the B 69 and B 67 St stops is served by the Q22. The Limited is going to stop at B 91 St, B 86 St, B 81 St, B 73 St, B 69 St, and B 67 St. Outside of the Rockaways, the Q21 LTD will make the same stops as the Q53. The doc also said that the Q53 transports more than 12 times as many people to the Rockaways as the Q21 on a typical Weekday (300 to 3800 respectively). Not surprising at all but still interesting. Both the Bx30 and Q21 re-routes are set for sometime in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted November 11, 2011 Share #9 Posted November 11, 2011 You definitely helped me out, since my computer can't open PDFs at the moment. So right now, the Q21 runs every 30 minutes during rush hours, right? So during that time, all Q21s would bypass Lindenwood and make limited stops down Woodhaven Blvd, right? On a side note, I have a map that shows a Q21A that ran from Euclid Avenue to Far Rockaway. I assume it got cut because it parallelled the . So what would be the turnaround in Arverne? Yup. Maybe someone like trainmaster who lived in NY for a while can confirm. There was a "Q21a' that ran the same route as the "Q21" then along Pitkin to Euclid Ave as most recent until the late 1980's. Not sure of the hours though or if ran only during the summer holiday season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted November 11, 2011 Share #10 Posted November 11, 2011 Thanks for update :tup:(Q101). Actually this is a good idea to have the "Q21" operate to Arvene and the new condos/apartments down there. Personally the Lindenwood loop should be canned IMO and replaced with the (Q41). As far as the (BX30) I am sure this is a compromise by the based on hundreds of complaints they got when they changed all of the COOP bus service during the June 2011 doomsday cuts. Now if it were up to me, I would create a (BX38) limited running along Gun Hill Road and have it serve all of COOP between Edson/Bartow and Bay Plaza during times it runs. While the BX28 ends at it's current post June 2010 COOP terminal. And extended when the "BX38" is not running to all of COOP. Just my takes. The (Q41) already serves Lindenwood. Maybe Lindenwood customers still want one-seat access to Rockaway Park. I would make the (Bx28) a LTD and can the Bx38. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatOne2k Posted November 11, 2011 Share #11 Posted November 11, 2011 MTA pretends like the Bx23 running its off peak route would be cost prohibitive. They ignore the reimbursement from NYC which would make ANY Bx23 change 'cost neutral' in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotham Bus Co. Posted November 11, 2011 Share #12 Posted November 11, 2011 MTA pretends like the Bx23 running its off peak route would be cost prohibitive. They ignore the reimbursement from NYC... ...because that reimbursement just might not last much longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotham Bus Co. Posted November 11, 2011 Share #13 Posted November 11, 2011 The doc also said that the Q53 transports more than 12 times as many people to the Rockaways as the Q21 on a typical Weekday... ...but the Q53 is assigned to a depot at the wrong end of the route, with the first dozen buses of the day pulling out from LaGuardia to Rockaway Park. The Q21 restructuring is probably a back-door way to move some of that service to Far Rockaway Depot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotham Bus Co. Posted November 11, 2011 Share #14 Posted November 11, 2011 Personally the Lindenwood loop should be canned IMO and replaced with the (Q41). So all those people in Lindenwood don't deserve a one-seat ride to the Queens Center Mall but the hand full of people in Hamilton Beach do? How is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted November 11, 2011 Share #15 Posted November 11, 2011 This Q21 change makes sense.... w/ the initial route extension, that was done to try to limit the level of crowding on the Q11.... Having Q21's run LTD to Arverne takes ppl off Q53's @ Woodhaven/Hoffman (itself, at the very least) & eliminates a current (and common) xfer scenario over there on B. 96th st w/ Rockaway bound Q53's & Far Rockaway bound Q22's... I've long been sayin that the Q21 to/from Rockaway park (B 116th st) is useless w/ the Q53 there... if a NB Q21 & a NB Q53 arrives at beach 96th st, you stand there & you will watch 99.9999% of riders bombard that Q53... guaranteed. so you'll have the: - Q22 continue to serve both ends of the rockaways... - the Q21 assist the Q22 towards arverne, and - the Q53 along the Q22 towards rockaway pk.... Instead of the Q22 all by itself, east of the x-bay bridge, and the Q21 & 53, along w/ the Q22 west of the bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted November 11, 2011 Share #16 Posted November 11, 2011 This Q21 change makes sense.... w/ the initial route extension, that was done to try to limit the level of crowding on the Q11.... Having Q21's run LTD to Arverne takes ppl off Q53's @ Woodhaven/Hoffman (itself, at the very least) & eliminates a current (and common) xfer scenario over there on B. 96th st w/ Rockaway bound Q53's & Far Rockaway bound Q22's... I've long been sayin that the Q21 to/from Rockaway park (B 116th st) is useless w/ the Q53 there... if a NB Q21 & a NB Q53 arrives at beach 96th st, you stand there & you will watch 99.9999% of riders bombard that Q53... guaranteed. so you'll have the: - Q22 continue to serve both ends of the rockaways... - the Q21 assist the Q22 towards arverne, and - the Q53 along the Q22 towards rockaway pk.... Instead of the Q22 all by itself, east of the x-bay bridge, and the Q21 & 53, along w/ the Q22 west of the bridge. What's the benefit of making a Q21 LTD? Purely for cost issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted November 11, 2011 Share #17 Posted November 11, 2011 I don't know what's up w/ this forum lately.... tired of havin to log out & back in again just to make a post.... Yup. Maybe someone like trainmaster who lived in NY for a while can confirm. There was a "Q21a' that ran the same route as the "Q21" then along Pitkin to Euclid Ave as most recent until the late 1980's. Not sure of the hours though or if ran only during the summer holiday season. The Q21a was that route that went from far rockaway to New Lots ..... It wasn't a seasonal route, and it never really had consistent headways... I assume it got cut because it parallelled the A. The route suffered from waning ridership.... I'm guessing it was cut back, to cut costs.... then it eventually got eliminated..... What's the benefit of making a Q21 LTD? Purely for cost issues? as far as cost goes, I didn't read the PDF, so I don't know how it's gonna run (scheduling-wise)... the immediate benefit is that it'll free up 53's some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted November 11, 2011 Share #18 Posted November 11, 2011 So all those people in Lindenwood don't deserve a one-seat ride to the Queens Center Mall but the hand full of people in Hamilton Beach do? How is that? His answer is more than likely gonna be, let them transfer at Liberty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotham Bus Co. Posted November 11, 2011 Share #19 Posted November 11, 2011 What's the benefit of making a Q21 LTD? Purely for cost issues? Read the document. People are giving up empty locals in favor of the crowded Q53LTD. Creating the Q21LTD is a good way to add Limited service for relatively low cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted November 11, 2011 Share #20 Posted November 11, 2011 What's the benefit of making a Q21 LTD? Purely for cost issues? They said that the Q21 LTD would be cost-neutral, because they would eliminate the Q11 short-turns (though it seems to me like it would be slightly more expensive) They're saying that a lot of people are passing up Q53s and getting on the locals because the Q53s are too crowded, so they're using those buses to better-serve the people. So all those people in Lindenwood don't deserve a one-seat ride to the Queens Center Mall but the hand full of people in Hamilton Beach do? How is that? How do you know the people in Lindenwood want a one-seat ride to the Queens Center Mall? You could have more ridership in that area, but it might be more people connecting to the subway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The TransitMan Posted November 11, 2011 Share #21 Posted November 11, 2011 This Q21 change makes sense.... w/ the initial route extension, that was done to try to limit the level of crowding on the Q11.... Having Q21's run LTD to Arverne takes ppl off Q53's @ Woodhaven/Hoffman (itself, at the very least) & eliminates a current (and common) xfer scenario over there on B. 96th st w/ Rockaway bound Q53's & Far Rockaway bound Q22's... I've long been sayin that the Q21 to/from Rockaway park (B 116th st) is useless w/ the Q53 there... if a NB Q21 & a NB Q53 arrives at beach 96th st, you stand there & you will watch 99.9999% of riders bombard that Q53... guaranteed. so you'll have the: - Q22 continue to serve both ends of the rockaways... - the Q21 assist the Q22 towards arverne, and - the Q53 along the Q22 towards rockaway pk.... Instead of the Q22 all by itself, east of the x-bay bridge, and the Q21 & 53, along w/ the Q22 west of the bridge. The Q21a was that route that went from far rockaway to New Lots ..... It wasn't a seasonal route, and it never really had consistent headways... The route suffered from waning ridership.... I'm guessing it was cut back, to cut costs.... then it eventually got eliminated..... You read my mind...esopecially regarding the Q21A (which was an "experimental" route if you ask me). The Q21 LTD is a BETTER idea than the "Jacked-up" Q36 LTD...UGH! Anyways, with the Eastern Rockaways being developed, I can see MORE changes on the way. As for the Bx30, yeah ok. I mean people can't walk I guess BUT I'm not going to complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The TransitMan Posted November 11, 2011 Share #22 Posted November 11, 2011 This Q21 change makes sense.... w/ the initial route extension, that was done to try to limit the level of crowding on the Q11.... Having Q21's run LTD to Arverne takes ppl off Q53's @ Woodhaven/Hoffman (itself, at the very least) & eliminates a current (and common) xfer scenario over there on B. 96th st w/ Rockaway bound Q53's & Far Rockaway bound Q22's... I've long been sayin that the Q21 to/from Rockaway park (B 116th st) is useless w/ the Q53 there... if a NB Q21 & a NB Q53 arrives at beach 96th st, you stand there & you will watch 99.9999% of riders bombard that Q53... guaranteed. so you'll have the: - Q22 continue to serve both ends of the rockaways... - the Q21 assist the Q22 towards arverne, and - the Q53 along the Q22 towards rockaway pk.... Instead of the Q22 all by itself, east of the x-bay bridge, and the Q21 & 53, along w/ the Q22 west of the bridge. The Q21a was that route that went from far rockaway to New Lots ..... It wasn't a seasonal route, and it never really had consistent headways... The route suffered from waning ridership.... I'm guessing it was cut back, to cut costs.... then it eventually got eliminated..... You read my mind...especially regarding the Q21A (which was an "experimental" route if you ask me). The Q21 LTD is a BETTER idea than the "Jacked-up" Q36 LTD...UGH! Anyways, with the Eastern Rockaways being developed, I can see MORE changes on the way. As for the Bx30, yeah ok. I mean people can't walk I guess BUT I'm not going to complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
error46146 Posted November 13, 2011 Share #23 Posted November 13, 2011 theres a reason why the Q53's are so crowded..most of the time especially during the PM rush the 53's are packed well past the white line all the way up to the front door. in my experience most of the people on the 53 get off by broad channel, so won't really make a difference where it goes after that..21 LTD would be a good idea as long as they can keep up decent headways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted November 13, 2011 Share #24 Posted November 13, 2011 The Q21 LTD is a BETTER idea than the "Jacked-up" Q36 LTD...UGH! Anyways, with the Eastern Rockaways being developed, I can see MORE changes on the way. lol @ how you put it... anyway, I'm not sure how much more they can change (outside of headway adjustments); but I wouldn't rule out your assessment though.... I just hope they don't go lookin to extend the Q35..... theres a reason why the Q53's are so crowded..most of the time especially during the PM rush the 53's are packed well past the white line all the way up to the front door. in my experience most of the people on the 53 get off by broad channel, so won't really make a difference where it goes after that.. 21 LTD would be a good idea as long as they can keep up decent headways. reason 53's are crowded is b/c LTD service on Woodhaven/cross bay actually makes a difference over the locals (Q11/21).... That, and you can only fit but so many ppl. on them 11's.... Can you imagine how bad overcrowding on the 11 would be, if the 53 still had its old routing (where it ran nonstop from QB/63 dr to the wildlife center) yeh, (the level of crowding on the) 53 comin from the north, tend to fizzle out @ Howard beach..... However, there's a separate crowd that forms within the rockaways on the northbound 53, itself.... this 21 LTD is a good idea, just off the fact that you won't have buses carrying air after it crosses the toll booth.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The TransitMan Posted November 13, 2011 Share #25 Posted November 13, 2011 lol @ how you put it... anyway, I'm not sure how much more they can change (outside of headway adjustments); but I wouldn't rule out your assessment though.... I just hope they don't go lookin to extend the Q35..... reason 53's are crowded is b/c LTD service on Woodhaven/cross bay actually makes a difference over the locals (Q11/21).... That, and you can only fit but so many ppl. on them 11's.... Can you imagine how bad overcrowding on the 11 would be, if the 53 still had its old routing (where it ran nonstop from QB/63 dr to the wildlife center) yeh, (the level of crowding on the) 53 comin from the north, tend to fizzle out @ Howard beach..... However, there's a separate crowd that forms within the rockaways on the northbound 53, itself.... this 21 LTD is a good idea, just off the fact that you won't have buses carrying air after it crosses the toll booth.... If they extend that Q35 eastbound.....UGH! Yes, I despise the Q36 "LTD". Yes, I know...I'm being ridiculous but whatever. You know, thinking about the Q53, I think I can see why the MTA did what they did to the Woodhaven Blvd corridor. I mean, what other route in Queens reminds you of the current Q11/Q21 and Q53LTD? Yep...the Q20A/Q20B and Q44 LTD. Even though Main St does not attract as much as Woodhaven Blvd but the theory is there. The Q44 is crowded MAINLY between Flushing and Jamaica just like the Q53 is crowded mainly between Queens Blvd to about Rockaway Blvd? However with the Q21 LTD, the crowd will slack off BUT still be crowded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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