Samuelsen to NY Post: Transit Workers Will Not Accept a 3-Year Wage Freeze

[JustLok]

Pension benefits and contributions cannot be changed for current employees and retires. They are currently protected by NYS Constitution. Only benefits for future employees may be modified or even denied.

 

In order to do so, you would have to call a State Constitution conference, where new amendments can be proposed and voted upon immediately.

 

Keep in mind that Cuomo wanted to convene one at the start of next year, but has not formally proposed one. Yet.

 

Luckily, the unions in this state knew what he might be on to (changing current employees and retiree's pension benefits protected by the constitution). They applied some pressure and it was "delayed."

 

Also, don't forget that for every % we get in our raise, the Union receives one as well times about 36,000. Union dues go up the same percentage of wage increase as hourly wages. So, it's in the Union's best interest as well to get the highest wage increase.

 

As for the COLA, they are not pegged locally or regionally, but rather nationally. And, they do not include fuel increases, such as gasoline or heating, only costs of food, and depending on if it's CPI, utilities perhaps. They are not adjusted for local rent increases or even regional increase, only nationally. Which is way they said for the past two years since 2008, they was no "inflation", despite food prices increasing (remember a gallon of milk was abut $2.25 in 2008?). Remember how Social Security payees received no COLA's for 2-3yrs? Because CPI and inflation was said to be 0% and under during then. Sure!

 

So pegging wage increases to COLA or inflation, and therefore nationally, is rather flawed, especially for NYC standards, whose inflation is much more and varied than say that of Nebraska or Washington.

[Donald]

Considering how understaffed they are, I don't think you have to worry about being forced to work less than 40 hours. Then they will have to hire more people and that costs a lot of money.

 

Oh, and what is "radio time"?

[ruffryder]

IMO, given the economy, a package of 0%/0%/2% seems a fair concession that won't look bad in the public eye, as well as eliminating "radio time", provided that the MTA doesn't get what it wants on some of these things:

 

-NO elimination of pay for deadhead time

-NO additional contributions to healthcare

-NO changes to the pension for current employees

-NO changes to the probationary period for new employees

-NO reductions in working hours for existing employees below a base of 40/week

-NO layoffs

-NO increase in OPTO.

-Bus Operators get a plan with a timetable for installing protective screens of some sort.

 

With the way public unions have been getting routed nationwide, that would be a victory. This time, precedent dictates arbitration would not turn out favorably as other unions have not been getting good deals.

 

How does deadhead time work for a TO?

[Amtrak7]

IMO, given the economy, a package of 0%/0%/2% seems a fair concession that won't look bad in the public eye, as well as eliminating "radio time", provided that the MTA doesn't get what it wants on some of these things:

 

-NO elimination of pay for deadhead time

-NO additional contributions to healthcare

-NO changes to the pension for current employees

-NO changes to the probationary period for new employees

-NO reductions in working hours for existing employees below a base of 40/week

-NO layoffs

-NO increase in OPTO.

-Bus Operators get a plan with a timetable for installing protective screens of some sort.

 

With the way public unions have been getting routed nationwide, that would be a victory. This time, precedent dictates arbitration would not turn out favorably as other unions have not been getting good deals.

 

I agree with almost all of this with one exception. OPTO increases should be allowed, but the OPTO differential has to go up by quite a bit. No layoffs!

[NYCTSignals]

 

 

 

 

 

Also, don't forget that for every % we get in our raise, the Union receives one as well times about 36,000. Union dues go up the same percentage of wage increase as hourly wages. So, it's in the Union's best interest as well to get the highest wage increase.

 

 

 

yupp!

[SubwayGuy]

Pension benefits and contributions cannot be changed for current employees and retires. They are currently protected by NYS Constitution. Only benefits for future employees may be modified or even denied.

 

In order to do so, you would have to call a State Constitution conference, where new amendments can be proposed and voted upon immediately.

 

Keep in mind that Cuomo wanted to convene one at the start of next year, but has not formally proposed one. Yet.

 

Yet being the operative phrase which is why I included it in the list of "goals". Don't think politician crooks won't destroy retirement benefits for public unions just to salvage their own public image. I'm not talking about Cuomo, I'm talking about all of them. Cuomo's not going to be governor forever, and neither is the guy (or gal) after him, and it's a ticking time bomb to keep rolling the dice that way with no signs of the economy making any real improvement. Public opinion will be against the unions for jealousy if nothing else by that point. People are stupid. They don't realize that everyone used to have a decent pension and that corporate profiteering combined with outsourcing and "productivity gains per worker" which led to increased turnover used justification combined to end that in the private sector. Instead they will see what the media, large corporations, and politicians who all benefit from fleecing the worker see - which is the public employees get something they don't get.

 

Even though NO ONE talks about the benefits for politicians which IMO should be stripped down to near nothing, except pay.

 

The unions collectively need to act to PROTECT these things from future manipulation before its too late. Even if it means pay freezes in the short term.

[SubwayGuy]

Considering how understaffed they are, I don't think you have to worry about being forced to work less than 40 hours. Then they will have to hire more people and that costs a lot of money.

 

Not really. There are a lot of jobs that work just under 8 hours, and finish with time where employees are "available" if the need arises. If you got rid of the 40 hour requirement, the TA would not have to pay those employees 8 hours pay.

 

The TA, could in theory, need a crew to work a general order from 12-5am ONLY. Then when the general order finishes and service resumes to normal, that crew is surplus.

 

Right now if they schedule the general order so that it requires that crew, they must pay that crew 8 hours. That's fair to the crew because they are willing and able to work 8 hours a day x 5 days a week. It's fair to the TA because that crew must be on the property ready to work for those 8 hours.

 

If you get rid of the 40 hour requirement, the TA could tell the crew go home after 5 hours because the general order is done, and that crew loses 3 hours pay.

[SubwayGuy]

I agree with almost all of this with one exception. OPTO increases should be allowed, but the OPTO differential has to go up by quite a bit. No layoffs!

 

What I meant is no expansion of OPTO to other lines than those that use it currently.

 

OPTO differential is a raise of sorts. Personally I think both differential rates (night and OPTO) could use a boost, but that's a tough card to play in this economy. Better to save that one for the next negotiation using "we took a 2 year pay freeze and total 2% over 3 years" to get that one included in the NEXT package, than this one. This one has the potential to be a bloodbath.

[SubwayGuy]

How does deadhead time work for a TO?

 

You're on one (or both) of the RTO civil service lists, right? It will be explained to you when you start. It works the same way for T/O's and C/R's.

[Donald]

The contract will most likely have no wage increase for the first 2 years, and a small increase for year 3. Both sides are making unrealistic demands. The MTA wants huge increases in healthcare contributions, which they wil never get. And the union wants paid maternity leave, which they will never get.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yet being the operative phrase which is why I included it in the list of "goals". Don't think politician crooks won't destroy retirement benefits for public unions just to salvage their own public image. I'm not talking about Cuomo, I'm talking about all of them. Cuomo's not going to be governor forever, and neither is the guy (or gal) after him, and it's a ticking time bomb to keep rolling the dice that way with no signs of the economy making any real improvement. Public opinion will be against the unions for jealousy if nothing else by that point. People are stupid. They don't realize that everyone used to have a decent pension and that corporate profiteering combined with outsourcing and "productivity gains per worker" which led to increased turnover used justification combined to end that in the private sector. Instead they will see what the media, large corporations, and politicians who all benefit from fleecing the worker see - which is the public employees get something they don't get.

 

Even though NO ONE talks about the benefits for politicians which IMO should be stripped down to near nothing, except pay.

 

The unions collectively need to act to PROTECT these things from future manipulation before its too late. Even if it means pay freezes in the short term.

 

I agree to a degree, but when do the unions make concessions? Health care costs are skyrocketing and yet the expectation is for the employer to keep picking up the majority of the costs. Seems a bit selfish to me. Oh and how many middle class folks in this country are getting raises in this recession?? I think there's a difference between protecting things and being a bit out of touch and unrealistic.

[RTOMan]

I agree to a degree, but when to the unions make concessions? Health care costs are skyrocketing and yet the expectation is for the employer to keep picking up the majority of the costs. Seems a bit selfish to me. Oh and how many middle class folks in this country are getting raises in this recession?? I think there's a difference between protecting things and being a bit out of touch and unrealistic.

 

News flash for you we have been doing that since the early 2000's..

 

I will take zeros across the board if it helped in the long run just like he would, just im sure a lot of us would did you understand what he said?

[Xentor]

I agree to a degree, but when to the unions make concessions? Health care costs are skyrocketing and yet the expectation is for the employer to keep picking up the majority of the costs. Seems a bit selfish to me. Oh and how many middle class folks in this country are getting raises in this recession?? I think there's a difference between protecting things and being a bit out of touch and unrealistic.

 

Why should unions give anything up whatsoever? Transit has absolutely no vested interest in it's employees doing well at all. Whatever the workers give up, they never get back and the Transit Authority will only pick up momentum into the next contract. Look in plain english, the goal of any agency and/or polititian is to make these types of jobs as cheap as possible because they cant outsource them. The public loves this, they think Transit employees are rich beyond belief and someone needs to put an end to it. Thats where alot the votes are. Dont go against your own interests like so much of this country is tricked into doing.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

News flash for you we have been doing that since the early 2000's..

 

I will take zeros across the board if it helped in the long run just like he would, just im sure a lot of us would did you understand what he said?

 

Why should unions give anything up whatsoever? Transit has absolutely no vested interest in it's employees doing well at all. Whatever the workers give up, they never get back and the Transit Authority will only pick up momentum into the next contract. Look in plain english, the goal of any agency and/or polititian is to make these types of jobs as cheap as possible because they cant outsource them. The public loves this, they think Transit employees are rich beyond belief and someone needs to put an end to it. Thats where alot the votes are. Dont go against your own interests like so much of this country is tricked into doing.

 

I knew folks would get all up in a fit. lol I've actually been part of union, albeit many years ago during my college days and believe it or not I do support unions. I just think that you guys can fight and not make any concessions and that's perfectly fine. The problem is at some point all of this is going to come to a head. Look at the Post Office. They're on the brink of bankruptcy because they're paying out more than they're taking in; in fact far more. All I'm saying is at some point there won't be anything to give and what will happen then? :eek:

[RTOMan]

I knew folks would get all up in a fit. lol I've actually been part of union, albeit many years ago during my college days and believe it or not I do support unions. I just think that you guys can fight and not make any concessions and that's perfectly fine. The problem is at some point all of this is going to come to a head. Look at the Post Office. They're on the brink of bankruptcy because they're paying out more than they're taking in; in fact far more. All I'm saying is at some point there won't be anything to give and what will happen then? :eek:

 

You still arent getting it...

 

BTW you arent getting me all up in a fit you arent worth it...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You still arent getting it...

 

BTW you arent getting me all up in a fit you arent worth it...

 

There's nothing to get. You guys feel like you're making concessions already. BTW, you still didn't answer my question, but it's okay. Not my problem.

[RTOMan]

There's nothing to get. You guys feel like you're making concessions already. BTW, you still didn't answer my question, but it's okay. Not my problem.

 

What part of we have been making that since the early 2000's you dont get?

 

Your right its not your problem worry about yourself...

[SubwayGuy]

There's nothing to get. You guys feel like you're making concessions already. BTW, you still didn't answer my question, but it's okay. Not my problem.

 

Transit workers have been making concessions.

 

That's why many were laid off last year from a job title that never used to have layoffs. Why? Givebacks. The layoff clause was given back.

 

In the 1970's and 1980's, there used to be something called "train cut time" or TC, upon arriving at terminals. Which meant that this was a scheduled period of rest, where the only thing motormen could be asked to do were operations involving coupling and uncoupling of trains. They were not allowed to operate trains in passenger service during their TC time unless they were paid a time differential to compensate for the lost TC time.

 

There's no TC time now. A train can arrive in a terminal with an exhausted crew following a service disruption, and supervision could tell them "go right back out the other way, we need service in the other direction" and they HAVE to or else it's insubordination and subject to discipline. And if the crew loses rest time, no compensation. The only thing the crew is allowed is a "comfort" - time to use the bathroom which is never more than 5 minutes. And if something happens on that return trip due to crew being overtired, or improperly rested...well it's the crew's fault, they should have gotten more sleep (never mind maybe just needing a few minutes rest to sit down and take a deep breath) and the crew can expect to be disciplined for it.

 

These are just a few examples of givebacks. The pensions have gotten progressively worse. Tier 1 was the best. Followed by Tier 2. Tier 3 was short lived and most people eligible for it opted for another tier if they could. Tier 4 is the current, less than all of its predecessors, and Tier 5 if proposed, would be worse for future hires. Those are all givebacks too.

 

So are the increasingly harsh disciplinary penalties. In the 1980's, nobody gave a damn if a motorman hit a timed signal. It was, shrug, guess I went too fast, recharge the train and keep it moving. Now it's a serious safety violation and can get a train operator suspended without pay, assigned to the platform for a period of time while his/her file is reviewed by labor relations, or in some cases it can be the last straw that leads to termination. All givebacks.

 

So the union has made sacrifices. They're not asking the union to "make sacrifices for the good of the team" they're asking the union to keep rolling down the slippery slope so that momentum against public unions in general can be maintained.

 

Things like the proposal to make crews call out sick an hour earlier than they're required to now. Not necessary to save the TA's finances. Just abusive.

 

Where's the light at the end of the tunnel? Worker rights have been eroding for 35 years in the name of "shared sacrifice" to "ease the pain"? When does the pain ease? When does the middle class standard of living start going UP again?

[SubwayGuy]

I knew folks would get all up in a fit. lol I've actually been part of union, albeit many years ago during my college days and believe it or not I do support unions. I just think that you guys can fight and not make any concessions and that's perfectly fine. The problem is at some point all of this is going to come to a head. Look at the Post Office. They're on the brink of bankruptcy because they're paying out more than they're taking in; in fact far more. All I'm saying is at some point there won't be anything to give and what will happen then? :eek:

 

The union can't dig its heels in on pay this time. The Taylor Law effectively prevents a strike (which could destroy the union this time, and many employees won't be on board with one since they need their money and union funds would not be sufficient to sustain employees during a strike), and subjects the union to arbitration which based on what's happening around the country would surely mean a decisive rout of the union to "management" same as the shaft public employees have been getting nationwide when it comes to contract negotiations.

[RTOMan]

Transit workers have been making concessions.

 

That's why many were laid off last year from a job title that never used to have layoffs. Why? Givebacks. The layoff clause was given back.

 

In the 1970's and 1980's, there used to be something called "train cut time" or TC, upon arriving at terminals. Which meant that this was a scheduled period of rest, where the only thing motormen could be asked to do were operations involving coupling and uncoupling of trains. They were not allowed to operate trains in passenger service during their TC time unless they were paid a time differential to compensate for the lost TC time.

 

There's no TC time now. A train can arrive in a terminal with an exhausted crew following a service disruption, and supervision could tell them "go right back out the other way, we need service in the other direction" and they HAVE to or else it's insubordination and subject to discipline. And if the crew loses rest time, no compensation. The only thing the crew is allowed is a "comfort" - time to use the bathroom which is never more than 5 minutes. And if something happens on that return trip due to crew being overtired, or improperly rested...well it's the crew's fault, they should have gotten more sleep (never mind maybe just needing a few minutes rest to sit down and take a deep breath) and the crew can expect to be disciplined for it.

 

These are just a few examples of givebacks. The pensions have gotten progressively worse. Tier 1 was the best. Followed by Tier 2. Tier 3 was short lived and most people eligible for it opted for another tier if they could. Tier 4 is the current, less than all of its predecessors, and Tier 5 if proposed, would be worse for future hires. Those are all givebacks too.

 

So are the increasingly harsh disciplinary penalties. In the 1980's, nobody gave a damn if a motorman hit a timed signal. It was, shrug, guess I went too fast, recharge the train and keep it moving. Now it's a serious safety violation and can get a train operator suspended without pay, assigned to the platform for a period of time while his/her file is reviewed by labor relations, or in some cases it can be the last straw that leads to termination. All givebacks.

 

So the union has made sacrifices. They're not asking the union to "make sacrifices for the good of the team" they're asking the union to keep rolling down the slippery slope so that momentum against public unions in general can be maintained.

 

Things like the proposal to make crews call out sick an hour earlier than they're required to now. Not necessary to save the TA's finances. Just abusive.

 

Where's the light at the end of the tunnel? Worker rights have been eroding for 35 years in the name of "shared sacrifice" to "ease the pain"? When does the pain ease? When does the middle class standard of living start going UP again?

 

Good post beat me too it..

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Transit workers have been making concessions.

 

That's why many were laid off last year from a job title that never used to have layoffs. Why? Givebacks. The layoff clause was given back.

 

In the 1970's and 1980's, there used to be something called "train cut time" or TC, upon arriving at terminals. Which meant that this was a scheduled period of rest, where the only thing motormen could be asked to do were operations involving coupling and uncoupling of trains. They were not allowed to operate trains in passenger service during their TC time unless they were paid a time differential to compensate for the lost TC time.

 

There's no TC time now. A train can arrive in a terminal with an exhausted crew following a service disruption, and supervision could tell them "go right back out the other way, we need service in the other direction" and they HAVE to or else it's insubordination and subject to discipline. And if the crew loses rest time, no compensation. The only thing the crew is allowed is a "comfort" - time to use the bathroom which is never more than 5 minutes. And if something happens on that return trip due to crew being overtired, or improperly rested...well it's the crew's fault, they should have gotten more sleep (never mind maybe just needing a few minutes rest to sit down and take a deep breath) and the crew can expect to be disciplined for it.

 

These are just a few examples of givebacks. The pensions have gotten progressively worse. Tier 1 was the best. Followed by Tier 2. Tier 3 was short lived and most people eligible for it opted for another tier if they could. Tier 4 is the current, less than all of its predecessors, and Tier 5 if proposed, would be worse for future hires. Those are all givebacks too.

 

So are the increasingly harsh disciplinary penalties. In the 1980's, nobody gave a damn if a motorman hit a timed signal. It was, shrug, guess I went too fast, recharge the train and keep it moving. Now it's a serious safety violation and can get a train operator suspended without pay, assigned to the platform for a period of time while his/her file is reviewed by labor relations, or in some cases it can be the last straw that leads to termination. All givebacks.

 

So the union has made sacrifices. They're not asking the union to "make sacrifices for the good of the team" they're asking the union to keep rolling down the slippery slope so that momentum against public unions in general can be maintained.

 

Things like the proposal to make crews call out sick an hour earlier than they're required to now. Not necessary to save the TA's finances. Just abusive.

 

Where's the light at the end of the tunnel? Worker rights have been eroding for 35 years in the name of "shared sacrifice" to "ease the pain"? When does the pain ease? When does the middle class standard of living start going UP again?

 

Well that was a long unnecssary winded post. I know all about the games. My uncle is a driver in the city, so I'm familiar with the tactics and I get the whole fighting for the middle class thing, but my point was that at some point this is going to hit a head and I'm referring to financial situation. If the workers get "their way" (let's say they get most of what they want), someone is going to pay for it; more than likely the passengers through fare hikes, etc. That was really what I was getting at. There is no real winner in these situations because someone always suffers even though the idea is to fight for the little guy and win against the .

[RTOMan]

Well that was a long unnecssary winded post

 

No you fail at reading comprehension so its was explained to you...

 

That "Give back thing" he described to you what yer ego got hurt? It seems that way to me if your repsonse was that from the get go, it shows a "closed mind" not the first time we been through this here...

 

My uncle is a driver in the city

 

For what company? We dont work for the City Of New York Different Union...

 

If the workers get "their way" (let's say they get most of what they want), someone is going to pay for it; more than likely the passengers through fare hikes, etc.

 

Get what way? You still arent getting it i have said myself that i would take NO raise increase i have talked to others who feel the same way. If it helps in the Long run im for it.

 

There is no real winner in these situations because someone always suffers even though the idea is to fight for the little guy and win against the MTA

 

Not your problem remember?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

No you fail at reading comprehension so its was explained to you...

 

I didn't fail at anything. You just want to be difficult because you disagree with what I had to say. Get off my back already.

 

That "Give back thing" he described to you what yer ego got hurt? It seems that way to me if your repsonse was that from the get go, it shows a "closed mind" not the first time we been through this here... For what company? We dont work for the City Of New York Different Union...

 

He works for the . Last I checked he was out of Quill. He used to be with 100th st for years, but he prefers the Crosstown routes in the city. I actually saw him one morning on the M23. I was on an express bus but he was busy dealing with the folks boarding over there at 3rd and 23rd.

 

 

Get what way? You still arent getting it i have said myself that i would take NO raise increase i have talked to others who feel the same way. If it helps in the Long run im for it.

 

#1 I said get some of what you want (as in the group overall). It's been said several times that concessions were made. #2 what you say and what the union does as a whole are two very different things. Hell my uncle would've preferred a different outcome during that transit strike in 2005 but things were done differently.

 

 

Not your problem remember?

 

We can agree on that, but don't come at me attacking me for speaking my opinion. Quite frankly I've said nothing against the union. I've just posed questions that you've repeatedly ignored and claim that I have a reading problem. Talk about an ego trip. LOL

[RTOMan]

I didn't fail at anything. You just want to be difficult because you disagree with what I had to say.

 

All i said was we did give back Correct? Your fail is you not undersatnding that...

 

He works for the MTA. Last I checked he was out of Quill. He used to be with 100th st for years, but he prefers the Crosstown routes in the city. I actually saw him one morning on the M23. I was on an express bus but he was busy dealing with the folks boarding over there at 3rd and 23rd.

 

Good for him! The MTA isnt the City Though.

 

1 I said get some of what you want (as in the group overall).

 

Do you even Know what we want?

 

2 what you say and what the union does as a whole are two very different things. Hell my uncle would've preferred a different outcome during that transit strike in 2005 but things were done differently.

 

The Union can say or do what the eff they want WE vote on the Contract...

 

I clearly remember having a convo with a few of my union brothers and sisters before this chit went down and voicing my worries that Roger isnt for our interest but his own hated it when i was proven right...

 

We can agree on that, but don't come at me attacking me for speaking my opinion. Quite frankly I've said nothing against the union. I've just posed questions that you've repeatedly ignored and claim that I have a reading problem. Talk about an ego trip. LOL

 

I already said you arent worth it so please dont pat yerself on the back Um Kay?... Its just a difference of views nothing more nothing less.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

All i said was we did give back Correct? Your fail is you not undersatnding that...

 

I heard you before. Some people would disagree with that statement. That was my point. Some people's perception of giving back are different.

 

 

Do you even Know what we want?

 

Whatever it is according to you, it must be some demand that a simple layman such as myself would need a academic dictionary to understand. No matter what union you're with they all share some basic similarities. I love how folks make it sound like it's all so complicated and difficult. lol When it comes down to it, you're fighting over dollars and cents anyway you look at it.

 

 

The Union can say or do what the eff they want WE vote on the Contract...

 

I clearly remember having a convo with a few of my union brothers and sisters before this chit went down and voicing my worries that Roger isnt for our interest but his own hated it when i was proven right...

 

So what's the word on the street about Samuelsen?

 

 

I already said you arent worth it so please dont pat yerself on the back Um Kay?... Its just a difference of views nothing more nothing less.

 

lol... It's funny that I would be patting myself on the back when I wasn't even having an argument. More like you insisting on things that weren't the case on my end.