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Samuelsen to NY Post: Transit Workers Will Not Accept a 3-Year Wage Freeze


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Some people would disagree with that statement. That was my point. Some people's perception of giving back are different.

 

A give back is a giveback Period...

 

Whatever it is according to you, it must be some demand that a simple layman such as myself would need a academic dictionary to understand. No matter what union you're with they all share some basic similarities. I love how folks make it sound like it's all so complicated and difficult. lol When it comes down to it, you're fighting over dollars and cents anyway you look at it.

 

In other words you dont know thanks...

 

So what's the word on the street about Samuelsen?

 

Ask yer Uncle...

 

lol... It's funny that I would be patting myself on the back when I wasn't even having an argument. More like you insisting on things that weren't the case on my end.

 

Even funnier that you cant even grasp sarcasm, as you were...

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A give back is a giveback Period...

Not to some.

 

 

In other words you dont know thanks...

 

lol... I don't need to know. It's not like my paycheck is going to suddenly be fatter. You're the one that needs to know.

 

 

Ask yer Uncle...

 

lol... Sure I can ask him, but why can't you speak about the man? You know what they say about opinions... They're like ********. Everyone has one. :)

 

 

Even funnier that you cant even grasp sarcasm, as you were...

You call that sarcasm? Well I'll be damned. :eek:

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I knew folks would get all up in a fit. lol I've actually been part of union, albeit many years ago during my college days and believe it or not I do support unions. I just think that you guys can fight and not make any concessions and that's perfectly fine. The problem is at some point all of this is going to come to a head. Look at the Post Office. They're on the brink of bankruptcy because they're paying out more than they're taking in; in fact far more. All I'm saying is at some point there won't be anything to give and what will happen then? :eek:

 

People get your point wether or not you beleive it, they just arent having it and for very valid reasons. Everything related to workers in Transit has been steadily eroding to no end. If you put a conductor from the 60's on the job today he'll think hes on another planet or some communist country, whatever happened to his rather regal post? I told you before the MTA's objective when it comes to these contract negotiations is to simply TAKE away, they never offer. The Unions arent in any position to take, they can only keep and defend and thats all you ever hear about in the news. SubwayGuy made a good point when he said everyone on this country has forgotten they used to have a steady job, healthcare and a pension. This giant agency that pretty much owns NYC has you beleiving they cant pay their bills while ridership is at an alltime high, this is exactly what a bunch of corporations have been doing the last few years, laying off workers while recording record profits. They say its to remain competitive when in reality its all about meeting projected profits for wallsteet. Of course they are lying to themselves because the growth then comes from sacrificing quality and the workforce and not from actual sales. I wouldnt be surprised if the MTA has also been wallstreeted.

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Not to some.

 

Examples?

 

lol... I don't need to know. It's not like my paycheck is going to suddenly be fatter. You're the one that needs to know

 

What makes you think i dont? Like you said its not your problem yet you are the one still talking about it. Maybe you should ask your Uncle these questions.

 

lol... Sure I can ask him, but why can't you speak about the man? You know what they say about opinions... They're like ********. Everyone has one.

 

I suggest you still ask him, maybe he knows something i dont.

 

You call that sarcasm? Well I'll be damned

 

You learn something new everyday...

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Examples?

 

Some would say that paying a small portion for healthcare these days when the costs are skyrocketing is a gift and not a concession or a give back as you call it. You guys have it better than a lot of folks in the private sector. I just hope you realize that. Pensions is another thing.... Not too many folks have them anymore. I'm happy with my IRA and other savings. I will admit that my employer does contribute a small portion of my salary to an IRA though but still. Nothing near as generous as what you guys get. Don't get me wrong you guys go through a lot of ****, but many do earn pretty decently. I'm sure my uncle earns a good 70 - 80k a year because he eats up overtime driving, and with his seniority (he's been working a good 25 years now or more with the (MTA)) he does alright. I know they've tried to cut back on overtime, but still.

 

Hell to be honest, as long as you follow things by the book (which at times can be tricky), you're usually alright. I worked with the (MTA) for a few summers interning and I didn't have any problems. Their main thing was taking attendance and making sure you were there on time, but my boss would usually let me leave a bit early. :cool: Oh and the free Metrocard was great as well. :cool: I could only use it during the week, but we had Fridays off so of course I had free transit on that day off. :cool:

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People get your point wether or not you beleive it, they just arent having it and for very valid reasons. Everything related to workers in Transit has been steadily eroding to no end. If you put a conductor from the 60's on the job today he'll think hes on another planet or some communist country, whatever happened to his rather regal post? I told you before the MTA's objective when it comes to these contract negotiations is to simply TAKE away, they never offer. The Unions arent in any position to take, they can only keep and defend and thats all you ever hear about in the news. SubwayGuy made a good point when he said everyone on this country has forgotten they used to have a steady job, healthcare and a pension. This giant agency that pretty much owns NYC has you beleiving they cant pay their bills while ridership is at an alltime high, this is exactly what a bunch of corporations have been doing the last few years, laying off workers while recording record profits. They say its to remain competitive when in reality its all about meeting projected profits for wallsteet. Of course they are lying to themselves because the growth then comes from sacrificing quality and the workforce and not from actual sales. I wouldnt be surprised if the MTA has also been wallstreeted.

 

MTA is largely financed by ever increasing debt and debt service costs (ie interest and fees). AKA Bonds and there associated costs. And what famous New York City street is famous for having a lot of people who dabble in the trading of bonds, and acting as brokers for sales of bonds???

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Some people don't seem to realize (not saying anyone in particular on this forum, generally), that the MTA seems to think that it is a military organization, which it isn't. With that mentality, comes the arrogance. Those who work with the MTA know exactly what I am speaking about. The strict rules and adherence to them. Not safety and well-being rules (those should be ALWAYS be followed), but attendance, sick call-outs, paperwork, uniforms, various other multitudes of nit-picking rules and regulations. And all the First-Strike-You're-OUT! disciplinary actions from supervisors and the level up managers.

 

This management culture of the MTA that is fostered and reinforced on new management, that leads to friction and tension with the hourly work force due to higher management (or the many consultants they hire) coming out with some asinine policy instruction. It did improve under Sanders and Roberts, but reverted quite a bit (at least in my Division) with Walder. It's the lack of respect and decency from management on hourly workers, despite the risks, dangers, harassment, abuse, stress and all that we experience, and are ordered, to take in stride, daily! Yet that means nothing when you forget to button your cuff, straighten your hat, removed your safety glasses to wipe your sweaty brow after dragging a rail. No, you're caught! GOT YA! You're out!

 

This isn't a military unit or division. This is a transit system with blue-collar workers trying to make a living for their families (and futures) in a job/position that is vastly different from a desk job or other. People generally afford great leeway to the uniform services (PD, FD, DSNY, EMS, DOC) due to the extra stress, harassment, fatigue, environment, etc. They also get 20/40 for that specific reason as well. But the public does not associate TA workers with that same perception at all! Meanwhile, we endure comparable stress and harassment and a dangerous work environment DAILY! But we have 25/55 and work in conditions that are worse than coal mines...

 

And whether or not we get a raise, giveback or get back, TA deficit or surplus, the MTA will ALWAYS raise the fare no matter what when it wants to. And they will always be short, just out of reach of a balanced budget. No doubt about, and those in employment for a bit know the tactics the TA uses come contract time. They release news reports and budget meetings listing service cuts and changes, draw downs, shortfalls, operations increases, all a few months before contract time. Just before the Union lists its demands. Then the TA says those demands will cost xxx dollars and the TA is already xxx dollars short, making them xxxxx dollars short if the Union gets what it wants. Then, wait for it.... Public outcry, mayoral outcry, governor outcry, kittens outcry. Damn dirty, greedy, slimey TA workers! Damn you!

 

And we just do the best that we do, always try to do, day in, day out. Get through the crap of the day from the public and from management till clock out time and pay day. And hope for the best. That doesn't mean I'm docile, uh uh. At least in my department, I get to stir the pot up a bit at times when supervisors get out of hand. I take the hit, but not DANs, but other hits, but I know they're coming and weigh it against the hits that can be given against supervisors that deserve it. But that's another point entirely.

 

I understand what Via Garibaldi 8 was originally saying. That despite these months of posturing, and the months more of it to come, that it generally boils down to in the papers to the TA saying what the Union wants comes out to dollars and cents. And the Union saying what the TA wants comes down to respect, decency and underhanded title changes and broad banding (most times for "productivity" and at a cost to rider safety at times, never mind worker safety). It also doesn't help that the local papers are vastly anti-labor (outside of The Chief) and alter public perception considerably.

 

It's the same Three Year Dance Act, just with different actors/actresses taking part. Of course, it all depends on which of the cast plays a stronger part...

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Some people don't seem to realize (not saying anyone in particular on this forum, generally), that the MTA seems to think that it is a military organization, which it isn't. With that mentality, comes the arrogance. Those who work with the MTA know exactly what I am speaking about. The strict rules and adherence to them. Not safety and well-being rules (those should be ALWAYS be followed), but attendance, sick call-outs, paperwork, uniforms, various other multitudes of nit-picking rules and regulations. And all the First-Strike-You're-OUT! disciplinary actions from supervisors and the level up managers.

 

This management culture of the MTA that is fostered and reinforced on new management, that leads to friction and tension with the hourly work force due to higher management (or the many consultants they hire) coming out with some asinine policy instruction. It did improve under Sanders and Roberts, but reverted quite a bit (at least in my Division) with Walder. It's the lack of respect and decency from management on hourly workers, despite the risks, dangers, harassment, abuse, stress and all that we experience, and are ordered, to take in stride, daily! Yet that means nothing when you forget to button your cuff, straighten your hat, removed your safety glasses to wipe your sweaty brow after dragging a rail. No, you're caught! GOT YA! You're out!

 

This isn't a military unit or division. This is a transit system with blue-collar workers trying to make a living for their families (and futures) in a job/position that is vastly different from a desk job or other. People generally afford great leeway to the uniform services (PD, FD, DSNY, EMS, DOC) due to the extra stress, harassment, fatigue, environment, etc. They also get 20/40 for that specific reason as well. But the public does not associate TA workers with that same perception at all! Meanwhile, we endure comparable stress and harassment and a dangerous work environment DAILY! But we have 25/55 and work in conditions that are worse than coal mines...

 

And whether or not we get a raise, giveback or get back, TA deficit or surplus, the MTA will ALWAYS raise the fare no matter what when it wants to. And they will always be short, just out of reach of a balanced budget. No doubt about, and those in employment for a bit know the tactics the TA uses come contract time. They release news reports and budget meetings listing service cuts and changes, draw downs, shortfalls, operations increases, all a few months before contract time. Just before the Union lists its demands. Then the TA says those demands will cost xxx dollars and the TA is already xxx dollars short, making them xxxxx dollars short if the Union gets what it wants. Then, wait for it.... Public outcry, mayoral outcry, governor outcry, kittens outcry. Damn dirty, greedy, slimey TA workers! Damn you!

 

And we just do the best that we do, always try to do, day in, day out. Get through the crap of the day from the public and from management till clock out time and pay day. And hope for the best. That doesn't mean I'm docile, uh uh. At least in my department, I get to stir the pot up a bit at times when supervisors get out of hand. I take the hit, but not DANs, but other hits, but I know they're coming and weigh it against the hits that can be given against supervisors that deserve it. But that's another point entirely.

 

I understand what Via Garibaldi 8 was originally saying. That despite these months of posturing, and the months more of it to come, that it generally boils down to in the papers to the TA saying what the Union wants comes out to dollars and cents. And the Union saying what the TA wants comes down to respect, decency and underhanded title changes and broad banding (most times for "productivity" and at a cost to rider safety at times, never mind worker safety). It also doesn't help that the local papers are vastly anti-labor (outside of The Chief) and alter public perception considerably.

 

It's the same Three Year Dance Act, just with different actors/actresses taking part. Of course, it all depends on which of the cast plays a stronger part...

 

 

Well said brother, well said.

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A big comment on American business and TA in general that no one seems to understand.

 

Efficiency is about how much results you can get for minimal labor.

 

American businessmen seem to think efficiency is about how much labor you can get (regardless of results) for minimal pay.

 

And that's why the middle class is going the way of the dodo bird.

 

Look at the cold hard facts. It's disgusting how many people in this nation are on welfare, living below the poverty line, living below the MEAN salary (it's not 50%!), on food stamps, living paycheck to paycheck, and in all kinds of debt:

 

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/50-facts-about-the-u-s-economy-that-will-shock-you/

 

Like I've said before the MTA management is symptomatic of managers all over America that want everything for themselves and nothing for anyone else.

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Some people don't seem to realize (not saying anyone in particular on this forum, generally), that the MTA seems to think that it is a military organization, which it isn't. With that mentality, comes the arrogance. Those who work with the MTA know exactly what I am speaking about. The strict rules and adherence to them. Not safety and well-being rules (those should be ALWAYS be followed), but attendance, sick call-outs, paperwork, uniforms, various other multitudes of nit-picking rules and regulations. And all the First-Strike-You're-OUT! disciplinary actions from supervisors and the level up managers.

 

This management culture of the MTA that is fostered and reinforced on new management, that leads to friction and tension with the hourly work force due to higher management (or the many consultants they hire) coming out with some asinine policy instruction. It did improve under Sanders and Roberts, but reverted quite a bit (at least in my Division) with Walder. It's the lack of respect and decency from management on hourly workers, despite the risks, dangers, harassment, abuse, stress and all that we experience, and are ordered, to take in stride, daily! Yet that means nothing when you forget to button your cuff, straighten your hat, removed your safety glasses to wipe your sweaty brow after dragging a rail. No, you're caught! GOT YA! You're out!

 

This isn't a military unit or division. This is a transit system with blue-collar workers trying to make a living for their families (and futures) in a job/position that is vastly different from a desk job or other. People generally afford great leeway to the uniform services (PD, FD, DSNY, EMS, DOC) due to the extra stress, harassment, fatigue, environment, etc. They also get 20/40 for that specific reason as well. But the public does not associate TA workers with that same perception at all! Meanwhile, we endure comparable stress and harassment and a dangerous work environment DAILY! But we have 25/55 and work in conditions that are worse than coal mines...

 

And whether or not we get a raise, giveback or get back, TA deficit or surplus, the MTA will ALWAYS raise the fare no matter what when it wants to. And they will always be short, just out of reach of a balanced budget. No doubt about, and those in employment for a bit know the tactics the TA uses come contract time. They release news reports and budget meetings listing service cuts and changes, draw downs, shortfalls, operations increases, all a few months before contract time. Just before the Union lists its demands. Then the TA says those demands will cost xxx dollars and the TA is already xxx dollars short, making them xxxxx dollars short if the Union gets what it wants. Then, wait for it.... Public outcry, mayoral outcry, governor outcry, kittens outcry. Damn dirty, greedy, slimey TA workers! Damn you!

 

And we just do the best that we do, always try to do, day in, day out. Get through the crap of the day from the public and from management till clock out time and pay day. And hope for the best. That doesn't mean I'm docile, uh uh. At least in my department, I get to stir the pot up a bit at times when supervisors get out of hand. I take the hit, but not DANs, but other hits, but I know they're coming and weigh it against the hits that can be given against supervisors that deserve it. But that's another point entirely.

 

I understand what Via Garibaldi 8 was originally saying. That despite these months of posturing, and the months more of it to come, that it generally boils down to in the papers to the TA saying what the Union wants comes out to dollars and cents. And the Union saying what the TA wants comes down to respect, decency and underhanded title changes and broad banding (most times for "productivity" and at a cost to rider safety at times, never mind worker safety). It also doesn't help that the local papers are vastly anti-labor (outside of The Chief) and alter public perception considerably.

 

It's the same Three Year Dance Act, just with different actors/actresses taking part. Of course, it all depends on which of the cast plays a stronger part...

 

Well said...

 

Waits for the "Be Glad you got a Job" or something along those lines comments..

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I knew folks would get all up in a fit. lol I've actually been part of union, albeit many years ago during my college days and believe it or not I do support unions. I just think that you guys can fight and not make any concessions and that's perfectly fine. The problem is at some point all of this is going to come to a head. Look at the Post Office. They're on the brink of bankruptcy because they're paying out more than they're taking in; in fact far more. All I'm saying is at some point there won't be anything to give and what will happen then?

 

The Post Office is a bad example, they are a service that for the most part is outdated and may soon be unnecessary. Transit on the other hand, has seen a rise in ridership in the last few years and there is no reason for employees to not have a cost of living increase.

 

As far as give backs, I'm sure there are some very small things that can be given up, but who in their right mind would go into a contract talk and say what they would give up right away?

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As far as give backs, I'm sure there are some very small things that can be given up, but who in their right mind would go into a contract talk and say what they would give up right away?

 

People who arent affected by this like him, usually say things such as that IND Man...

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I love when people come with that shit, I'd always tell them, "come work here for a week, then say that again."

 

I usually say "They had SEVERAL tests for T/O and C/R what was stopping you from taking one?"

 

If they got it so good why worry about what other job conditions are is my point...

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Well said, but I offer one correction:

 

EMS is treated like shit, as bad, if not worse than you guys. While they are under the FDNY, they are not treated equally.

 

Fact of the matter is this, anyone that does any REAL work/labor in America gets treated like dirt, desk jobs included. If you are in the business of DIRECTLY making things happen for a person and/or business, you are trash, dispensable and no one cares much about you. Even airline pilots are one tie-knot away from flipping burgers. So kids if youre looking for job security and happyness, dont turn any gears, dont grow any crops and surely dont push or pull any wheels. Become a lawyer, a polititian or a doctor, then youll have a whole world to screw around with and everyone will love you for it.

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Fact of the matter is this, anyone that does any REAL work/labor in America gets treated like dirt, desk jobs included. If you are in the business of DIRECTLY making things happen for a person and/or business, you are trash, dispensable and no one cares much about you. Even airline pilots are one tie-knot away from flipping burgers. So kids if youre looking for job security and happyness, dont turn any gears, dont grow any crops and surely dont push or pull any wheels. Become a lawyer, a polititian or a doctor, then youll have a whole world to screw around with and everyone will love you for it.

 

Not quite, but close. And that's the problem with American business. Bigwigs love to spoil and entitle themselves, and belittle everyone below them. Paying them peanuts, working them long hours, cutting benefits, treating them like shit, and asking them to do menial labor.

 

In some cases, the entry level jobs just require hard work, and the job is the job.

 

In other cases, the entry level job is easy, but the bigwig in the suit think it's fun to make the "associate" get them coffee, order meals, and answer phone calls when the person's job description lists none of those responsibilities.

 

This creates a really shitty culture where no one respects their coworkers, and certainly no one respects the suits.

 

Only instead of learning from this and saying "when I get there, we're gonna do this different", the entry level employee quits 85% of the time and finds another job, and ultimately settles for something middling. Maybe 15% of the time they ride it out and become a bigwig...and then shit all over the new little guys because they can, and you have to be a d*** to last that long at those kinds of jobs.

 

Case in point most lawyers, before they become lawyers, work as lightly paid or unpaid interns and put in long hours, or take clerkships, or work as paralegals...all of which are crappy jobs which are always on the "hot jobs" lists on the internet because there is such high turnover among them. And they often go to law school while doing it. And they do just about everything short of wiping the partner's ass for him.

 

Executives everywhere need to be brought down a notch, bigtime. They contribute the least to an organization and are highest paid.

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Not quite, but close. And that's the problem with American business. Bigwigs love to spoil and entitle themselves, and belittle everyone below them. Paying them peanuts, working them long hours, cutting benefits, treating them like shit, and asking them to do menial labor.

 

In some cases, the entry level jobs just require hard work, and the job is the job.

 

In other cases, the entry level job is easy, but the bigwig in the suit think it's fun to make the "associate" get them coffee, order meals, and answer phone calls when the person's job description lists none of those responsibilities.

 

This creates a really shitty culture where no one respects their coworkers, and certainly no one respects the suits.

 

Only instead of learning from this and saying "when I get there, we're gonna do this different", the entry level employee quits 85% of the time and finds another job, and ultimately settles for something middling. Maybe 15% of the time they ride it out and become a bigwig...and then shit all over the new little guys because they can, and you have to be a d*** to last that long at those kinds of jobs.

 

Case in point most lawyers, before they become lawyers, work as lightly paid or unpaid interns and put in long hours, or take clerkships, or work as paralegals...all of which are crappy jobs which are always on the "hot jobs" lists on the internet because there is such high turnover among them. And they often go to law school while doing it. And they do just about everything short of wiping the partner's ass for him.

 

Executives everywhere need to be brought down a notch, bigtime. They contribute the least to an organization and are highest paid.

 

That's why I didn't feel too bad about the recent misfortunes of two executives earlier this month...

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