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Why is the Holland Tunnel always congested?

Via Garibaldi 8

By Via Garibaldi 8,
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Via Garibaldi 8

Via Garibaldi 8

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Always wondered while sitting in traffic on the express bus or being re-routed via NJ via the Holland Tunnel on the express bus WHY is the Holland Tunnel so back up all the time (even on weekends) and is anything being done to alleviate the backup? One thing that would help is always having traffic cops around. Sometimes they don't have them there by Canal St. and traffic is just a mess more than it has to be.

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Via Garibaldi 8

Via Garibaldi 8

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If you had a car then maybe the Gas stations on the jersey side would provide a hint.

NY side is just plain 6ave and west side hwy knuckleheads that dont know how to drive.

 

Well I've seen the gas stations though I'm usually half asleep even when I've passed in a car or express bus, but I didn't realize that so many folks gas up over there...

 

I'm more curious about the backup in the city though due to the Holland Tunnel.

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Shortline Bus

Shortline Bus

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they never built the Lower Manhattan Expressway and the tunnel dumps traffic right into the middle of lower manhattan.

 

Foxie is right. Same reason the Lincoln is always busy 7 days a week. People from NJ/PA and beyond using it to get to the heart of NYC Manhattan.

Not to mention, a major shopping mall(Newport Center) located right near the Holland as well. And can we add cars going to the WTC site.

 

Actually VG8, it would take all day to list every reason but another example of why expansion of Amtrak/(NJT) service whether it was with ARC(new hudson river tubes)or some other rail expansion between NYC and NJ was and is still badly needed.

 

In LA for instance you have freeway jams but it spread out all the region. Thankfully despite it's flaws the NYC/NJ metro area has the best mass transit in America and among the world(in terms of frequent service) and many bus/train lines running 22 hours or even all the time 24/7.

 

Hope that answers part of question VG8.

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mark1447

mark1447

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They need Interstate 495 to run in the middle of Manhattan! Bring that idea BACK TO THE TABLE!!

 

Theres a gap between NJ495 and I495 (LIE).

 

Interstate 95(Trans-Manhattan & CBx) is all tied up for those not heading to Manhattan.

 

I278 is $$$ up with toll at Verrazano. $9 bucks or something.

 

Streets from 59th Street to 23rd Street is all tied up with traffic everyday, worst during Rush hours!

 

Btw a bit more reading on MM Expressway/I495:

 

Mid-Manhattan Expressway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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mark1447

mark1447

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Where will they build it now?

 

Tunnel it up deep. So it wouldn't have to mess up the subway, water pipes, buildings, etc.

 

All tunnel from Union City to Long Island City via Manhattan. Exits would pretty much be at NY 9A and maybe the FDR and 3rd Ave. Dk.

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Guest lance25

Guest lance25

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I don't think that any idea for the LoMan or the MidMan expressways will ever gain any traction. Way too many people will be displaced. The LoMan called for everything between Kenmare and Broome to be demolished while the MidMan would've blown through everything between 29th and 30th Streets. Then, they'd have to build the off-ramps to the Holland Tunnel, West Side highway, and Williamsburg & Manhattan Bridges for the former and the Lincoln and Queens-Midtown tunnels for the latter. You'd be destroying entire neighborhoods and I highly doubt anyone will just accept that. It's one of the reasons why most of Moses's proposals never went anywhere.

 

You want to tunnel the entire highway? Good luck with that. You've got the 8th Avenue, 7th Avenue, Broadway, Lexington Avenue and Nassau Street subway lines you'd have to weave through for the LOMEX and the same amount of lines (add 6th Avenue, subtract Nassau Street) for the MidMan. Then there's all the utilities and what-nots underneath the roads.

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mark1447

mark1447

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I don't think that any idea for the LoMan or the MidMan expressways will ever gain any traction. Way too many people will be displaced. The LoMan called for everything between Kenmare and Broome to be demolished while the MidMan would've blown through everything between 29th and 30th Streets. Then, they'd have to build the off-ramps to the Holland Tunnel, West Side highway, and Williamsburg & Manhattan Bridges for the former and the Lincoln and Queens-Midtown tunnels for the latter. You'd be destroying entire neighborhoods and I highly doubt anyone will just accept that. It's one of the reasons why most of Moses's proposals never went anywhere.

 

You want to tunnel the entire highway? Good luck with that. You've got the 8th Avenue, 7th Avenue, Broadway, Lexington Avenue and Nassau Street subway lines you'd have to weave through for the LOMEX and the same amount of lines (add 6th Avenue, subtract Nassau Street) for the MidMan. Then there's all the utilities and what-nots underneath the roads.

 

Well, with nothing being done, then I guess everyday there will be traffic back ups in Manhattan, unless a solution plays thru.

 

The city could of at least build the I78 Lower Manhattan Expressway years before.

 

I95 is already over capacity with trucks, buses and cars all over the place.

Idk how many drivers uses I287 to bypass the city.

 

Only thing I can thing of, is if the city can convert one of the local streets into a route, to encourage traffic to use it, rather then drivers dividing to different streets in Manhattan to get from NJ or Qns in/out of Manhattan.

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lilbluefoxie

lilbluefoxie

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I don't think that any idea for the LoMan or the MidMan expressways will ever gain any traction. Way too many people will be displaced. The LoMan called for everything between Kenmare and Broome to be demolished while the MidMan would've blown through everything between 29th and 30th Streets. Then, they'd have to build the off-ramps to the Holland Tunnel, West Side highway, and Williamsburg & Manhattan Bridges for the former and the Lincoln and Queens-Midtown tunnels for the latter. You'd be destroying entire neighborhoods and I highly doubt anyone will just accept that. It's one of the reasons why most of Moses's proposals never went anywhere.

 

they managed to do it in upper Manhattan, a crosstown highway, with minimal difficulty. The Lower Manhattan expressway should have been planned earlier on back when it was a really bad area and the land was cheap. Nowadays there's too many people with money down there and they will see to it a highway never is built down there. Overall Mr Moses' should have done the cross bronx on the southern allignment, there was less opposition and he probably could have gotten more done.

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AA 8th Avenue

AA 8th Avenue

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holland tunnel has only two tubes one for each direction. Lincoln tunnel has three middle tube is reversible. The approaches are horribly designed especially the west side highway and Varick st approaches. The hudson st approach is no longer until they finish the road work so everyone has been rerouted to either Varick or Canal sts...

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IntExp

IntExp

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they managed to do it in upper Manhattan, a crosstown highway, with minimal difficulty. The Lower Manhattan expressway should have been planned earlier on back when it was a really bad area and the land was cheap. Nowadays there's too many people with money down there and they will see to it a highway never is built down there. Overall Mr Moses' should have done the cross bronx on the southern allignment, there was less opposition and he probably could have gotten more done.

Upper Manhattan was easier to impose a highway for a reason-

The (A) was tunnled much more deeper in that section then in lower Manhattan,

And the community wasn't able to put up as effective an opposition to the expressway as those in Lower Manhattan were.

 

Lastly, the CBE f'ing destroyed the South Bronx, especially the Tremont section, giving that area no shot to recover after the bad days of the 70's, 80's and early 90's passed. It's not that hard to see there was so much opposition to the Lower Manhattan Expwy- because they they didn't want the same to happen to that area as it did to the South Bronx. Would Lower Manhattan be as appealing and dynamic today if it had an expressway rammed through it? I don't think so.

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Guest lance25

Guest lance25

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they managed to do it in upper Manhattan, a crosstown highway, with minimal difficulty. The Lower Manhattan expressway should have been planned earlier on back when it was a really bad area and the land was cheap. Nowadays there's too many people with money down there and they will see to it a highway never is built down there. Overall Mr Moses' should have done the cross bronx on the southern allignment, there was less opposition and he probably could have gotten more done.

 

The LOMEX was planned when the land value was low. It still got shot down by city officials in a unanimous decision. Nobody wanted it then and they sure as hell won't want it now.

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Nova RTS 9147

Nova RTS 9147

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they managed to do it in upper Manhattan, a crosstown highway, with minimal difficulty. The Lower Manhattan expressway should have been planned earlier on back when it was a really bad area and the land was cheap. Nowadays there's too many people with money down there and they will see to it a highway never is built down there. Overall Mr Moses' should have done the cross bronx on the southern allignment, there was less opposition and he probably could have gotten more done.

 

That highway is considerably less intrusive than the planned Mid-Manhattan expressway, which deliberately cuts through residential areas. While I'll agree the Holland Approach in Manhattan was poorly planned, the thought of an elevated highway cutting through the Lower East Side is disturbing.

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lilbluefoxie

lilbluefoxie

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The Robert Carro biography of Robert Moses is an excellent source of information on this subject and other building projects within this area. I recommend this book to anyone who is interested in transportation and especially New York City Transit history.

 

Robert Cairo did a hatchet job, he focused almost entirely on the negative aspects of Moses' legacy and not enough on the positives.

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Cait Sith

Cait Sith

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If you had a car then maybe the Gas stations on the jersey side would provide a hint.

NY side is just plain 6ave and west side hwy knuckleheads that dont know how to drive.

 

Not just that. The two worst ones imo are Canal and Broome Streets. Canal is DEFINITELY the worst because you got peeps bottlenecking to & from the bridge & the damn tunnel!! 6th Avenue has a tendency to flow from time to time. West Side Highway actually has it easier, its just getting to the tunnel that kills their moments lol.

 

I'd also like to point out that they've been doing a long-term project in the tunnels with the roads and other stuff, should be completed in 2014 or so.

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Shortline Bus

Shortline Bus

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Not just that. The two worst ones imo are Canal and Broome Streets. Canal is DEFINITELY the worst because you got peeps bottlenecking to & from the bridge & the damn tunnel!! 6th Avenue has a tendency to flow from time to time. West Side Highway actually has it easier, its just getting to the tunnel that kills their moments lol.

 

I'd also like to point out that they've been doing a long-term project in the tunnels with the roads and other stuff, should be completed in 2014 or so.

 

Granted i avoid the Holland like the plague. However when i still lived in Brooklyn and used the Holland first it would usually only be Monday-Fridays after 8pm and weekends(actually it's only bad say at start of weekend saturdays from say 10-2pm, and sunday nights NYC-Bound 5-8pm).

 

And second coming from SW Brooklyn, I would use either the Battery or Brooklyn Bridge and use local Manhattan streets and go to NJ-bound tube from the Hudson St. (aka 8th Ave south)enterence.

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mark1447

mark1447

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Here is a map of the cancelled Lower Manhattan Expressway.

 

3311101496_95930860ab_b.jpg

 

Here is the one for Midtown.

 

3311102680_bf7110b18b_b.jpg

 

Wwow, didnt expect it to look like that.

 

Interstate 478, since its under BPT, why is it shown here for Manhattan Bridge?

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