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'89 Liberty MCI

So if the conductor is always supposed to look out the window as the train is exiting the station...

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...then what does the train operator do on OPTO routes (Franklin Avenue shuttle, Rockaway Park shuttle, (A) Liberty Avenue shuttle, (5) Dyre Avenue shuttle, weekend (G)(M))? I guess s/he just does not check for this since s/he cannot look out the window and towards the back of the train while the train is moving.

 

Does this contradict any rules involving liability and stuff like that? What are the specifics? I imagine that on a train with two crew members, the conductor is not responsible for any instances of dragging that occur after the time the first half of the train has entered the tunnel, since s/he is in the middle of the train and cannot leave his/her head sticking out the window as the middle of the train approaches the tunnel mouth, for obvious reasons.

 

I also imagine that in the event that a conductor observes a passenger being dragged, s/he radios the train operator to halt the train. Or does the conductor ever halt the train using the/an emergency brake? Or does s/he use both the brake and the radio? Or the procedure is to simply radio the train operator first and then the train operator stops. I know I am going in many different directions with my speculations here, so I definitely need to know specifics so I see the full picture.

 

Also, throughout the entire system, what is the minimum clearance between the train operator's side window and the tunnel wall? I wish to know if there are any locations in the system where approximately 5-7 inches of extra material portruding from the side of the train at its front would touch the tunnel wall or signals. So I mean to ask if there any locations where the clearance between the side of the train and a tunnel wall or signal is less than 5 inches, and what exactly is the minimum clearance.

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I guess because the OPTO T/O is using a much shorter train, he can see better, and would be less likely to not see someone being caught in the door or riding on the outside. So he has to be observing the road ahead of him, and can't possibly be observing the platform behind him, so that's the priority, anyway.

Edited by Eric B

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OPTO T/O is supposed to observe the platform after closing doors, before moving the train. OPTO T/O cannot really be held responsible for anything that happens after the train starts to move (doesn't mean they won't try!)

 

C/R is required to observe the platform in both directions for 75 feet of train movement. Anything that occurs after C/R cannot really be held responsible for, again doesn't mean they won't try.

 

This is one of the biggest reasons OPTO is unsafe, despite the wishes of those TA suits who don't really understand how their own system actually operates. That and trying to evacuate a train between stations with one crew member (in the event of an emergency)

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OPTO T/O is supposed to observe the platform after closing doors, before moving the train. OPTO T/O cannot really be held responsible for anything that happens after the train starts to move (doesn't mean they won't try!)

 

C/R is required to observe the platform in both directions for 75 feet of train movement. Anything that occurs after C/R cannot really be held responsible for, again doesn't mean they won't try.

 

This is one of the biggest reasons OPTO is unsafe, despite the wishes of those TA suits who don't really understand how their own system actually operates. That and trying to evacuate a train between stations with one crew member (in the event of an emergency)

 

Assuming the platform is completely straight, allowing somebody to see clearly down the entire length of a maximum-length (600-foot) NYC Subway train while it is stationary, does not observing the platform after the train begins to move (which is what OPTO train operators do, albeit with 150- to 300-foot trains) constitute a real safety issue?

 

In such a situation, it seems like the only way for a possible injury to go unnoticed would be for a door panel to not close completely but all the indicator lights turned off anyway (as though all the doors had indeed closed completely). Then the two possible ways for injuries to occur would either be that somebody secured him/herself to the edge of the door opening, or somebody inside the train had a body part sticking out.

 

Although this is something that even a conductor would not notice unless it happened before s/he closed the window. Even then, a conductor cannot see door panels very well unless s/he is at a station platform that curves in a way that allows him/her to see some of the door panels. Like Bedford Park Blvd-Grand Concourse (IND) on the far west track or Union Square (IRT) on the southbound local track.

 

Additionally this would be the result of a serious electro-mechanical failure that would not be the fault of the train operator or conductor. Unless they knowingly took the train in service with that defect. It would be noticed way in advance and the train would be taken out of service immediately after the problem is noticed.

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Assuming the platform is completely straight, allowing somebody to see clearly down the entire length of a maximum-length (600-foot) NYC Subway train while it is stationary, does not observing the platform after the train begins to move (which is what OPTO train operators do, albeit with 150- to 300-foot trains) constitute a real safety issue?

 

Once the train begins to move the OPTO Train Operator MUST look forward to the track and right of way ahead of him.

 

An OPTO Train Operator CANNOT observe the platform once the train has begun to move. He/She must focus on what is in front of the train.

 

In such a situation, it seems like the only way for a possible injury to go unnoticed would be for a door panel to not close completely but all the indicator lights turned off anyway (as though all the doors had indeed closed completely). Then the two possible ways for injuries to occur would either be that somebody secured him/herself to the edge of the door opening, or somebody inside the train had a body part sticking out.

 

-You could have a surfer jump onto the side of a moving train

-You could have someone try and jump between cars to board the train

-Someone on the platform could inadvertently come into contact with the train, have a personal item snag on a a train component or be pushed, shoved, or fall into the train.

 

Also, there are certain rare and difficult to repeat circumstances where doors will close and indication be possible despite something thin being caught in a doorway.

 

Although this is something that even a conductor would not notice unless it happened before s/he closed the window. Even then, a conductor cannot see door panels very well unless s/he is at a station platform that curves in a way that allows him/her to see some of the door panels. Like Bedford Park Blvd-Grand Concourse (IND) on the far west track or Union Square (IRT) on the southbound local track.

 

That's what the CCTV monitors in those stations are for at the conductor's position and also why all conductors are instructed to take their time and be extra cautious on curved stations, or excessively crowded stations.

 

Additionally this would be the result of a serious electro-mechanical failure that would not be the fault of the train operator or conductor. Unless they knowingly took the train in service with that defect. It would be noticed way in advance and the train would be taken out of service immediately after the problem is noticed.

 

If something large were caught in a door panel, then yes...trains should not be able to move with doors open, doors should not open en route, etc. etc. etc.

 

The point of having people (read: crew) on the trains is to compensate for technology's shortcomings, not the other way around. There's two ways of looking at it:

#1 - The technology failed, sue the company that made the train or blame Car Equipment - it's their fault the technology didn't work and now someone is dead.

#2 - The technology failed, but a human caught it and saved someone's life, take the train out of service, figure out why it failed, and make it right. Good thing there was a person there.

 

Real railroaders prefer #2.

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