What will be first to go with Veolia?

[VWM]

What do you guys think will be axed in Year 2 of Veolia?

(They "promised" not cut anything Year 1)

Which lines will stay, which will be cut, and which will be trashed by crappy service?

What's your opinion?

[Shortline Bus]

What do you guys think will be axed in Year 2 of Veolia?

(They "promised" not cut anything Year 1)

Which lines will stay, which will be cut, and which will be trashed by crappy service?

What's your opinion?

 

 

We shall see as it little early to predict. A big factor on what routes will be 'canned' by end of 2012 depends on the local/national economy and if riders will use a Veoila-run LI Bus now called "NICE."

I did use LI Bus reguarly in Spring Term of 2003 when i lived in Brooklyn and had to commutte to class at LIU-CW Post 1x a week.

 

If for instance a year from now in Dec. 2012, the economy has slightly imporved (Obama would be re-elected in that scenrio :eek: ) and Veolia does a 'descent job' i could see a scenrio in which Veolia/Nassau 'bus officals' or whoever that make those decisions making 'minor cuts' as when the took over the former PBL's in Queens.

 

For instance ending weekend service on the "N80/81" and other low used routes. While mergering redudant routes as well i.e N1/N2/N3 into one route with two branches and ending the Jamaica rush hour extension once and for while.

 

I could be dead wrong but minor cuts and mergering routes is what I can see Veolia doing early on running the soon to be former LI Bus.:eek:

[checkmatechamp13]

If for instance a year from now in Dec. 2012, the economy has slightly imporved (Obama would be re-elected in that scenrio :eek: ) and Veolia does a 'descent job' i could see a scenrio in which Veolia/Nassau 'bus officals' or whoever that make those decisions making 'minor cuts' as when the took over the former PBL's in Queens.

 

I don't think the MTA made any cuts when they took over the PBLs. For a lot of them, they actually ended up adding service.

 

In any case, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that they'll try to reduce service on the heaviest routes first. I could picture them reducing service on the N4 and N6 to say, every 20 minutes during rush hours with the intention of letting private vans take most of the riders (bolded for emphasis). I mentioned those route in particular because I can see LIB-subway transfers ending, and so people will be more willing to take a private van for a comparable fare.

 

Now I'm not sure if it would be in their best interests to do that. The N4 and N6 cost under $2 per rider to operate, and so without subway transfers, they could potentially make a profit off of them, and so they might want to keep the current service levels (or even expand them). In that case, they would instead direct their cuts towards the lower-ridership routes out in Eastern Nassau (plus a few routes like the N8 and N14), probably cutting the N73 and N80, and ending weekend service on their counterpart.

[B35 via Church]

For the sake of repeating the routes I already stated in prior threads, I'll just do it like this....

 

 

In statement form:

* The underperforming routes that travel the greater distances, I think, will be the first to go....

That way, they end up saving the most money w/o having to figure out/study/consider too many intangibles.... Remember what we are dealing w/ here (Veolia)......

 

- Not long afterwards, the shuttles then will be next

(or if Veolia's really greedy, they'll include this, with what I said above)....

 

- ....and then years after that, I think they'll start trimming service on the busier routes (like Checkmate's alluding to).....

They'll drag this out, much like the MTA does here in NYC w/ service cuts (spanning years)....

[Shortline Bus]

I don't think the MTA made any cuts when they took over the PBLs. For a lot of them, they actually ended up adding service.

 

In any case, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that they'll try to reduce service on the heaviest routes first. I could picture them reducing service on the N4 and N6 to say, every 20 minutes during rush hours with the intention of letting private vans take most of the riders (bolded for emphasis). I mentioned those route in particular because I can see LIB-subway transfers ending, and so people will be more willing to take a private van for a comparable fare.

 

.

 

 

Actually Checkmate you partial right. Mistype lol:p I meant 'adjustments' across the boards when the took over the PBL's. None in Queens (a few route changes and mergers)but i meant that the did cut service on a couple of low performing Manhattan-express routes to the outerboros. For instance in Brooklyn the BM4 now having 'limited-schedule' Saturday service. Or the BXM7b aka City Island branch of the BXM7 being taken over by the old "BXM7a" now the BXM8.

[sirtiger]

So far no announcement they will accept MTA metrocards or accept transfer to MTA NYC transit system. This leads me to believe this will cease to exists especially the latter.

 

Somewhere noted that 1/3 of total LIB riders transfer to MTA nyc systems. I would believe many would cease taking the NICE. This will probably create a snowball of further cuts imo

[B35 via Church]

Actually Checkmate you partial right. Mistype lol:p I meant 'adjustments' across the boards when the took over the PBL's. None in Queens (a few route changes and mergers)but i meant that the did cut service on a couple of low performing Manhattan-express routes to the outerboros. For instance in Brooklyn the BM4 now having 'limited-schedule' Saturday service. Or the BXM7b aka City Island branch of the BXM7 being taken over by the old "BXM7a" now the BXM8.

 

nah bro, he's spot on.... Service generally, gradually got better w/ the old PBL's when the MTA took over....

All I gotta say is the Q64 !

 

Anyway, Surely no one here expects that from Veolia w/ the LIB lines w/ such a low budget....

[checkmatechamp13]

So far no announcement they will accept MTA metrocards or accept transfer to MTA NYC transit system. This leads me to believe this will cease to exists especially the latter.

 

Somewhere noted that 1/3 of total LIB riders transfer to MTA nyc systems. I would believe many would cease taking the NICE. This will probably create a snowball of further cuts imo

 

But those cuts might not necessarily be a bad thing. If people switch to the LIRR or dollar vans, the buses could be less crowded (then again, they might cut service so there's the same level of crowding except that now if you get flagged, you have to wait even longer)

 

B35 is right in that their goal will be to try and make the cuts that save them the most money. Routes like the N4 and N6 will likely stay, but with reduced frequencies to reflect the reduced ridership for the simple reason that they are profitable. He's right that they'll try to take out the long, low-ridership routes first (the routes going south out of Hicksville, aside from the N48/N49 are all around 10 miles long and see low ridership, so expect them to be some of the first to go).

 

Shuttles might go due to lack of ridership (or maybe some could potentially be merged with other routes. An N40/N62 combo might help keep service in South Freeport)

 

The problem is that you have routes like the N4 and N6 that can get ridership by themselves, but the thing is that borderline routes like (for instance, because I don't know much about Nassau's routes) the N16 might get decent ridership because they take transfers from other routes. If you cut too many low-ridership routes, you could start affecting the moderate-ridership routes, eventually leading to a system in which the only routes that exist are those that can sustain themselves based on points they directly serve.

 

And all this because Mangano couldn't find extra money to pay Veolia.

[qjtransitmaster]

Actually Checkmate you partial right. Mistype lol:p I meant 'adjustments' across the boards when the took over the PBL's. None in Queens (a few route changes and mergers)but i meant that the did cut service on a couple of low performing Manhattan-express routes to the outerboros. For instance in Brooklyn the BM4 now having 'limited-schedule' Saturday service. Or the BXM7b aka City Island branch of the BXM7 being taken over by the old "BXM7a" now the BXM8.

BM4 before MTA takeover only had 3 Saturday round trips.

[qjtransitmaster]

But those cuts might not necessarily be a bad thing. If people switch to the LIRR or dollar vans, the buses could be less crowded (then again, they might cut service so there's the same level of crowding except that now if you get flagged, you have to wait even longer)

 

B35 is right in that their goal will be to try and make the cuts that save them the most money. Routes like the N4 and N6 will likely stay, but with reduced frequencies to reflect the reduced ridership for the simple reason that they are profitable. He's right that they'll try to take out the long, low-ridership routes first (the routes going south out of Hicksville, aside from the N48/N49 are all around 10 miles long and see low ridership, so expect them to be some of the first to go).

 

Shuttles might go due to lack of ridership (or maybe some could potentially be merged with other routes. An N40/N62 combo might help keep service in South Freeport)

 

The problem is that you have routes like the N4 and N6 that can get ridership by themselves, but the thing is that borderline routes like (for instance, because I don't know much about Nassau's routes) the N16 might get decent ridership because they take transfers from other routes. If you cut too many low-ridership routes, you could start affecting the moderate-ridership routes, eventually leading to a system in which the only routes that exist are those that can sustain themselves based on points they directly serve.

 

And all this because Mangano couldn't find extra money to pay Veolia.

These routes need to go N14,45,47 and 36 done. Merge 36 partially with N1 and let N46 get powered up with N47's death reroute to attract more ppl like Roosevelt field or face elimination. N45 duplicates N43 mostly the unique routing has many drivers heading to bellmore LIRR.

Let select N6 runs absorb that part. Seriously too many high potential routes performing badly due to stupid routing. The duplication is dumb. Try living in nassau and working with a normal job and you will learn just how hard using the bus system really is!!!!!!!!! killing metrocard would be the worse thing they can do. They will not do it. N51 change it or it dies plain and simple.:cool:

[User]

My Prediction: I have to say, that after seeing the public hearing in Mineola last week, that LIB riders are standing together now more than ever before. I predict that when the county proposes to change things, the people are going to fight Veolia or Mangano (if hes still there) against them and it will actually make a difference. There may be violence, I don't know, but I think the people aren't going to take any more cuts.

 

And to be honest, I think the county has the money to pay the , but they're keeping it because either Mangano is stealing or the county is putting the money toward something else they don't need.

[qjtransitmaster]

I don't think the MTA made any cuts when they took over the PBLs. For a lot of them, they actually ended up adding service.

 

In any case, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that they'll try to reduce service on the heaviest routes first. I could picture them reducing service on the N4 and N6 to say, every 20 minutes during rush hours with the intention of letting private vans take most of the riders (bolded for emphasis). I mentioned those route in particular because I can see LIB-subway transfers ending, and so people will be more willing to take a private van for a comparable fare.

 

Now I'm not sure if it would be in their best interests to do that. The N4 and N6 cost under $2 per rider to operate, and so without subway transfers, they could potentially make a profit off of them, and so they might want to keep the current service levels (or even expand them). In that case, they would instead direct their cuts towards the lower-ridership routes out in Eastern Nassau (plus a few routes like the N8 and N14), probably cutting the N73 and N80, and ending weekend service on their counterpart.

 

they would never reduce N4/6 they are just too heavy their ridership is too high to reduce.

[checkmatechamp13]

These routes need to go N14,45,47 and 36 done. Merge 36 partially with N1 and let N46 get powered up with N47's death reroute to attract more ppl like Roosevelt field or face elimination. N45 duplicates N43 mostly the unique routing has many drivers heading to bellmore LIRR.

Let select N6 runs absorb that part. Seriously too many high potential routes performing badly due to stupid routing. The duplication is dumb. Try living in nassau and working with a normal job and you will learn just how hard using the bus system really is!!!!!!!!! killing metrocard would be the worse thing they can do. They will not do it. N51 change it or it dies plain and simple.:cool:

 

Yeah, killing the MetroCard is the worst thing they can do, but you keep on ignoring the fact they they are on a limited budget. Anything that isn't profitable has the potential to get cut, and unless they can work out an arrangement where they don't eat any of the cost of the free transfers, they'll eliminate the free transfers.

 

they would never reduce N4/6 they are just too heavy their ridership is too high to reduce.

 

Back in the 1970s or so, they reduced the B2 and B46 from every 2 minutes to every 4 minutes, hoping that dollar vans would take some of the passengers and reduce their cost to provide the service. This was before free transfers, so the cost of taking the dollar van or the bus was basically the same. BrooklynBus can tell you more about it.

[qjtransitmaster]

My Prediction: I have to say, that after seeing the public hearing in Mineola last week, that LIB riders are standing together now more than ever before. I predict that when the county proposes to change things, the people are going to fight Veolia or Mangano (if hes still there) against them and it will actually make a difference. There may be violence, I don't know, but I think the people aren't going to take any more cuts.

 

And to be honest, I think the county has the money to pay the , but they're keeping it because either Mangano is stealing or the county is putting the money toward something else they don't need.

hmm wasteful schhol districts is one and they are many others

[qjtransitmaster]

Back in the 1970s or so, they reduced the B2 and B46 from every 2 minutes to every 4 minutes, hoping that dollar vans would take some of the passengers and reduce their cost to provide the service. This was before free transfers, so the cost of taking the dollar van or the bus was basically the same. BrooklynBus can tell you more about it.

 

It won't work here.But I think it would be nice if there were dollar van routes that used the parkway this way they can break the last mile limit that buses can't do use the parkways. There needs to be van routes on the southern and maybe meadowbrook. Instead of competing with bus service it should compliment and connect to it that is what I think van routes need to do.

[checkmatechamp13]

It won't work here.But I think it would be nice if there were dollar van routes that used the parkway this way they can break the last mile limit that buses can't do use the parkways. There needs to be van routes on the southern and maybe meadowbrook. Instead of competing with bus service it should compliment and connect to it that is what I think van routes need to do.

 

I'm 99% sure vans can use the parkway, since they're not trucks or buses.

 

In any case, if the N4 and N6 can get a decent number of riders on local streets, the vans can as well. Vans in Brooklyn (and even vans in that area of Queens) do perfectly fine on local streets.

[qjtransitmaster]

I'm 99% sure vans can use the parkway, since they're not trucks or buses.

 

In any case, if the N4 and N6 can get a decent number of riders on local streets, the vans can as well. Vans in Brooklyn (and even vans in that area of Queens) do perfectly fine on local streets.

 

But I think vans should try something different something buses can't do like use the parkway and feed bus routes rather than weaken them. There is no way N4 and N6 users would cram themselves into a van. N4/6 need artics at least for rush hour service.

[FamousNYLover]

I wonder if Veolia cuts (N1) bus, will (Q85) will be overcrowded with Green Acres Mall along with van service to/from Green Acres?

[qjtransitmaster]

I wonder if Veolia cuts (N1) bus, will (Q85) will be overcrowded with Green Acres Mall along with van service to/from Green Acres?

 

nah ppl who want speed won't use N1 to green acres Q5 LTD is faster and more direct N1 may be closed door but is too indirect and out of the way.

[checkmatechamp13]

But I think vans should try something different something buses can't do like use the parkway and feed bus routes rather than weaken them. There is no way N4 and N6 users would cram themselves into a van. N4/6 need artics at least for rush hour service.

 

They won't be "crammed into" a van. They'll actually be able to get a seat, and the advantage the van offers over the bus could be the speed. The van could take shortcuts that the normal buses couldn't, as the driver wants to complete his run faster and make more money.

 

And yeah, the vans should run in markets where buses don't, but realistically that's not going to happen, since if there's no bus in that market, there is likely not enough demand for a van service. In some ways, buses and vans complement each other (e.g. if the bus flags me or if I just missed one, I can catch a van).

[B35 via Church]

In some ways, buses and vans complement each other

(e.g. if the bus flags me or if I just missed one, I can catch a van).

I'll give QJT a real life example of your point here.... I know you heard me say this before.....

 

.....Or if I stand anywhere along church av b/w E 49th & nostrand in the morning heading towards the subway, I can (and do so, QJT) hop in a dollar cab... instead of watching & attempting to board at least 4 (on average, not exaggerating either) B35's packed to the dam gills pass by .....

 

So, oh hell yeah they complement each other.

(p.s... may not be wise to put it to the cab drivers like that, though )

 

 

 

I wonder if Veolia cuts (N1) bus, will (Q85) will be overcrowded with Green Acres Mall along with van service to/from Green Acres?

 

Not a chance....

 

For one, N1 doesn't carry like that.... and two, N1 usage & Q5/85 usage isn't interchangable amongst users of said routes.....

[GreatOne2k]

.....Or if I stand anywhere along church av b/w E 49th & nostrand in the morning heading towards the subway, I can (and do so, QJT) hop in a dollar cab... instead of watching & attempting to board at least 4 (on average, not exaggerating either) B35's packed to the dam gills pass by .....

 

 

Wouldn't the crowded B35 be better than a dollar cab since you would have the free transfer?

 

Even better if you have an unlimited since you could 'back track' in the other direction to fit on the bus[or even a seat] if you had enough time to do that.

[B35 via Church]

Wouldn't the crowded B35 be better than a dollar cab since you would have the free transfer?

 

Even better if you have an unlimited since you could 'back track' in the other direction to fit on the bus[or even a seat] if you had enough time to do that.

 

yeah right.....

 

I live in the E. 40's - right in the middle of where the B35 gets its crowds.... I'm not backtracking to kings hwy or ralph (about 1/2 mile) to get on a bus that's gonna eventually get packed to the gills (at utica) every day anyway.... I'm not fighting or meandering my way off a bus that takes me three times as long to get to the subway every morning on top of it.... Especially with the attitudes & downright rudeness of folks in this neighborhood, no thank you....

 

Even when I went to high school... even with the student passes (then eventually, the metrocards), I would STILL take the dollar cab to the brighton line....

 

for half my life now, I've come to grips that a free transfer aint worth all that headache.... I'd rather pay the extra 2 bucks & be done with it.... Suffice it to say, I honestly do not remember the last time I took the B35 in the morning to get to the subway.....

 

Hell, I don't even take the subway to work much anymore (the IRT, which I abandoned as part of my morning commute about 2-3 yrs ago.... OR the Brighton).... Instead, I take my B46 (local... hell w/ the 46ltd) right on over to flatlands or Av H & take the express bus....

[qjtransitmaster]

I'll give QJT a real life example of your point here.... I know you heard me say this before.....

 

.....Or if I stand anywhere along church av b/w E 49th & nostrand in the morning heading towards the subway, I can (and do so, QJT) hop in a dollar cab... instead of watching & attempting to board at least 4 (on average, not exaggerating either) B35's packed to the dam gills pass by .....

 

So, oh hell yeah they complement each other.

(p.s... may not be wise to put it to the cab drivers like that, though )

 

 

 

 

 

Not a chance....

 

For one, N1 doesn't carry like that.... and two, N1 usage & Q5/85 usage isn't interchangable amongst users of said routes.....

 

beat me to it I was trying to say the same thing about N1

[B35 via Church]

beat me to it I was trying to say the same thing about N1

 

Cool....

 

....but as far as riders considering one over the other, I don't think it's as much about "speed" as much as it is, how frequent the Q5/85 is to Green Acres (compared to N1 service to Green Acres; when it runs to Jamaica, of course)....

 

- a typical Q85 trip from jamaica to green acres is like what... 45 mins... and that's only b/c of the frequency of riders getting on/off the bus....

- a typical N1 trip from jamaica to green acres is around the same duration.... that's due to the indirect routing it takes b/w the 2 points (around SE Queens, serving that SW pocket of Nassau); it's the ride itself....