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TriboroughBridge

Eliminating two stations on 7 ave Brooklyn branch thoughts

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As we all know, the stations between, Chambers St & Wall St ((2) & (3)), are close in proximity.

 

I was thinking, what if the (MTA) closed & demolished Fulton St & Park Pl & replaced both with a new station, Park Row.

 

It would be situated underneath Beekman St, between, Nassau St & Park Row & it would connect to the Fulton St Transit Center, having transfers to the, (A), (C), (E), (J), (Z), (R), (4), (5) & PATH (of course after the transit center is completed)

 

It would be easier to transfer to Nassau St & Lexington Ave, a little longer though, but you wont have to deal with the 8 ave line platform & run around like a chicken with it's head cut off, in a maze.

 

Let me hear your thoughts.

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They're not close at all IMO. Leave it the way it is. They seem close because the train pulls into those stations quick, but they all are heavily used.

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No.I don't think demolishing the WALL ST station would be a smart move.

 

chambers St and Fulton St (A)(C) are STUPIDLY close. Hell, you can see Chambers St FROM the front of the train n-b while ur STILL IN fulton St!

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I have a thought and question about the Fulton Street Transit Center.

When finished, the hub will let you connect to the (1)*(2)(3)(4)(5)(A)(C)(E)(J)(Z)(R) and PATH trains. Now within that, World Trade Center Station (E) is one of the connected stations. Currently at WTC Station, you are able to transfer to the (A) and (C) at Chambers St and the (2) and (3) at Park Place. If connected to the rest of Fulton St, you would be able to transfer to the (2)(3) and (A)(C) at two different stations in the same transit center. My question is will they cut the connection to Park Place and Chambers St from World Trade Center Station when the Fulton Street Transit Center opens?

 

*When WTC is finished

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Just saying, demolishing a station costs money as well and you're considering demolishing two? Wasting a lot of money there, just keep the stations there. And those two stations are still packed even if they are that close to each other during rush hours.

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its not necisary, when the Fulton Street transit center is complete, you will be able to transfer to all those lines easily anyway.

 

Ok. like the ads on the trains say "easily, being the key word" :)

 

They're not close at all IMO. Leave it the way it is. They seem close because the train pulls into those stations quick, but they all are heavily used.

 

The biggest gap between those stations is, the gap between Fulton St & Park Pl.

 

In MY opinion, the only run where trains run quick is, between Fulton St & Wall St. Other than that, they run slow, probably because of the turns.

 

Yes it's close but when you will see the ridership you will piss you're pants

 

Your probably right about that. I've never been to these stations during rush hour.

 

No.I don't think demolishing the WALL ST station would be a smart move.

 

chambers St and Fulton St (A)(C) are STUPIDLY close. Hell, you can see Chambers St FROM the front of the train n-b while ur STILL IN fulton St!

 

I didn't say Wall St. I said Fulton & Park Pl.

 

& Yes Chambers St is ridiculously close to Fulton St & they have transfers between 8 Ave & 7 Ave (without the (1) of course) at both stations *facepalm*

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Yeah, but the two stations you want to eliminate aren't all that close though.... (the entrance of) park place is close enough to park row (and the WTC area)... fulton st station puts you off just north of the financial district (although you do have folks walking to park row, that much is true).... Point being, the foot traffic in that general area is ridiculous... the entrances of the wall st station & the fulton st station aren't that close either..... It would be wise to keep those stations b/w wall st & chambers st intact for all those reasons alone....

 

You don't want to have a sole park row station.... you'd be creating a situation similar to that of what goes on over there at Lex/53rd (E)(M), as far as occupancy issues regarding waiting subway passengers at that station......

 

 

Just saying, demolishing a station costs money as well and you're considering demolishing two? Wasting a lot of money there, just keep the stations there. And those two stations are still packed even if they are that close to each other during rush hours.

"Close-thread" worthy statement there.....

 

Quoted for emphasis... may as well use those monies to upgrade the system, not demolish parts of it.....

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"Close-thread" worthy statement there.....

 

Quoted for emphasis... may as well use those monies to upgrade the system, not demolish parts of it.....

 

Thanks and yes, basically. The money that would be spent to demolish a station, (times two in your case,) would much benefit on other projects that would make more sense.

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Lack of money and reasonableness aside, Park Place and Fulton St. are too far apart to do this. Like, more than 1/4 mile apart.

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And isn't Park Place closer to Chambers Street station than Fulton Street station anyway on the (2)/(3)? I seem to remember that from when I used to ride that line.

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Same reason why they didnt close 18th on the 1 lol

 

I used to use the 18th st station when I worked on 18th between 5th & 6th... If they didn't have that station, 14th would be even more packed than it is, esp. seeing how slow the (2) and (3) trains are.

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I used to use the 18th st station when I worked on 18th between 5th & 6th... If they didn't have that station, 14th would be even more packed than it is, esp. seeing how slow the (2) and (3) trains are.

 

by slow do you mean the speed of the train or the gaps between trains? cause they arent that slow, the gaps are ridiculous!

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It's best to leave lower Manhattan the way it is. Plus, the Fulton Street Transit Center will provide all the services, and connections that people need. When thinking about eliminating stations, i would rather get rid of a few stations on the Canarsie Line. The section between Lorimer Street and Morgan Avenue. The stations are too close together.

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It's best to leave lower Manhattan the way it is. Plus, the Fulton Street Transit Center will provide all the services, and connections that people need. When thinking about eliminating stations, i would rather get rid of a few stations on the Canarsie Line. The section between Lorimer Street and Morgan Avenue. The stations are too close together.

 

Another bad idea. Again stations may seem close, but the stations are well used. The population is also exploding so the more stops the better to keep the stations from becoming sardine cans.

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Another bad idea. Again stations may seem close, but the stations are well used. The population is also exploding so the more stops the better to keep the stations from becoming sardine cans.

 

Agreed. I don't get this whole station elimination thing...

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Agreed. I don't get this whole station elimination thing...

 

Yeah, the whole point of the subway is for it to be accessible. If people need super fast service then they'll use commuter trains or some other form of rapid transit.

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Yeah, the whole point of the subway is for it to be accessible. If people need super fast service then they'll use commuter trains or some other form of rapid transit.

 

Exactly what I was trying to say. Our subway system has express service to speed up the commute. Since some people on these forums are so dumb (not you Garibaldi) I will list them out.

 

Eighth Avenue Line: (A)

 

Seventh Avenue Line: (2)(3)

 

Sixth Avenue Line: (:)(D)

 

Broadway Line: (Q)

 

Lexington Avenue Line: (4)(5)

 

Now for the people that doesn't get this these are express service lines. Now if you need to speed up you commute just ride them instead of shutting stations.

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Eliminating subway stations won't save time anyway.... you'll just have more (displaced) riders making their way to the nearest station.... It's not like bus service where if you kill off a section of a route, runtime is saved/decreased at the expense of the affected (pissed off) patrons.....

 

In other words, you'd have more passengers per station... meaning, and more often than not, more door holding.... which causes delays.... Which I have to believe there would be a lot more of, have fulton st & park place eradicated for a centralized Park Row station.....

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There have always been tensions between a few ideas - as related to transit:

 

a) Train station spacing and locations - the more stations the more the appearance of a slow train. Early subways - (Original IRT and BRT/BMT lines) spaced stations at 1/4, 1/3, 1/2 of a mile apart with express stations one or two miles apart. At the time, 1904 period - the competition for riders were street cars and elevated train lines.

 

B) The distance that folks WANT to "walk to their station". Every one wants a subway station near them that is an express station, that has an exit just right near where it is needed. The subways were geared for walking people - not folks who would park their cars near the outlying stations to take the train into the "city".

 

c) Station entrances and exits - every one wants convenient entrances and exits. However plenty of those entrances and exits have to be manned (in the days before automation), and even in the days of automation - have to be serviced. Plenty of stations when designed and built - had more entrances and exits then now. Why? Budget problems, changes in station usage, manpower issues, the needs of the transit authority, etc.

 

The IND line when built often provided two or more entrances to each of their stations since generally their stations were further apart (often 1/2 apart). That is why stations were often named for where the exits were - Broadway-Nassau Street, etc. Often the exits were placed at the ends of the station - kind of like making one station do the work of two. So while folks were using the same station - they did not have walk very far, etc. For example the 14th Street stations having entrances on 14th Street, but also 16th Street.

 

d) Budget cuts have sometimes led to the re-naming of stations. For example - many of the J-line stations had two entrances - for example Eastern Parkway and Broadway Junction, or 102-104 Streets. Often with the closing of one of the entrances - say Eastern Parkway or 102nd Street - over time - that part of the station has been dropped.

 

e) There have been just a couple of cases where a new station was built between two existing stations - for example Lawrence Street - now a part of the Metro-Tech-Jay Street transfer complex. There have been a few cases of station closings - for example 93rd Street on the #1, Worth Street and 18th Street on the #6 - usually because the expansion of nearby by stations to full 10-car train lengths meant that the stations were much too close together.

 

One must always go back to - just what is the purpose of the subway. Making the subways more in-accessible in the name of making it "faster" should not be the ultimate goal - in my opinion.

 

Just some notes.

Mike

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Exactly what I was trying to say. Our subway system has express service to speed up the commute. Since some people on these forums are so dumb (not you Garibaldi) I will list them out.

 

Oh, I know... I'm a genius of sorts.... B)

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