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x22 Super Express coming next month


Amtrak7

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The committee materials say that current P&R ridership is anemic (< 150 people/day) and that if this express service fails to increase ridership, all service to/from the lot will cease in July 2012.

 

no surprise there the P&R has nothing there if ridership on P&R is to improve then other lines need to structure around it like S55 and S56 can go there acting like an NJ bound route and feeder to X22 for manhattan then feeder to NJT and acedemy for points in NJ. I think X22 is one of the few lines that should be open-door in SI with unlimited transfer rule to make it attractive. Then again that is desparation planning.

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The committee materials say that current P&R ridership is anemic (< 150 people/day) and that if this express service fails to increase ridership, all service to/from the lot will cease in July 2012.

 

Yeah, well this shouldn't come as a surprise. You can't expect ridership to be high well after AE7 was cut. The Park & Ride route should've been created sooner. It's too late now since now folks have already found alternatives. Aside from that you only have select X22s serving the Park & Ride which means for example that if the 15:15 is MIA for some reason, you're stuck waiting an HOUR for the next X22 that serves the Park & Ride, which pretty much limits your options. To add injury to insult, you get to wait for two X22s to pass you by until the next one that you need comes by. This service was set up to fail. The super express I think will work out better depending on how it's done. If folks can take that or the regular X22 it may work out. They also fail to mention if the X22 OVERALL has become more reliable because that was the #1 complaint of riders. Buses were often very late or MIA and overcrowded as a result.

 

My other question is, will these runs be cut altogether, or will they become regular X22s again???

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I believe years ago that there was an X21. Not sure where it went though. I don't feel like digging either. Checkmate will probably look for it or maybe he has some old maps or something. B)

 

- pre x22, the x21 went from 57th/3rd to tottenville....

 

- post x22 (before the x21 eventually got eliminated, that is), the x21 went from 57th/3rd to pleasant plains....

 

 

those riders should simply stop using the X23/24 if its so unreliable don't use it. Use X1 or X2 or any other X bus try SIR to get to other express lines. If they keep up the shit then ppl will simply stop using them completely.

 

Those AE buses are very well used, believe it or not....

 

...and forget about SI-ers taking any of the Hylan Blvd expresses to the SIR...

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- pre x22, the x21 went from 57th/3rd to tottenville....

 

- post x22 (before the x21 eventually got eliminated, that is), the x21 went from 57th/3rd to pleasant plains....

 

Perhaps another reason for this attempt to prop up the X22 is because of the population boom on the South Shore. It's been noted several times that the population growth down there has not been met with adequate transportation and I think the (MTA) knows this.

 

 

Those AE buses are very well used, believe it or not....

 

...and forget about SI-ers taking any of the Hylan Blvd expresses to the SIR...

 

Yep, they certainly are, which shows that if they really had alternatives, they would use them. Those two lines are like the X10. Unreliable, but folks have few alternatives so they're forced to deal with the crappy service.

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Perhaps another reason for this attempt to prop up the X22 is because of the population boom on the South Shore. It's been noted several times that the population growth down there has not been met with adequate transportation and I think the (MTA) knows this.

 

 

Those AE buses are very well used, believe it or not....

 

...and forget about SI-ers taking any of the Hylan Blvd expresses to the SIR...

 

Yep, they certainly are, which shows that if they really had alternatives, they would use them. Those two lines are like the X10. Unreliable, but folks have few alternatives so they're forced to deal with the crappy service.

 

do you think x22 would become fulltime eventually

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I believe years ago that there was an X21. Not sure where it went though. I don't feel like digging either. Checkmate will probably look for it or maybe he has some old maps or something. B)

 

I know B35 already answered this, but I have a December 2001 map that shows the X21 as basically a short-turn version of the X22. It had ran every 20 minutes in the morning and every 60 minutes in the evening. I think it was 6 trips in the morning and 3 trips in the afternoon.

 

Back then, the buses that currently operate via NJ only did that in the morning (except for the X30 of course). In the afternoon, the X17J, X21, X22, and X31 ran via 23rd Street and the FDR Drive.

 

The committee materials say that current P&R ridership is anemic (< 150 people/day) and that if this express service fails to increase ridership, all service to/from the lot will cease in July 2012.

 

The question is why they built the park-and-ride in the location that they did. I understand that it's easy to access the WSE, but building it by the Pleasant Plains SIR station would've had it serve a dual purpose. That way, all buses could serve the park-and-ride, and when the express bus doesn't run (or Heaven-forbid, if it were eliminated), the SIR would still serve it. It's the same logic that they did with the Huguenot Park-and-Ride.

 

I think all this rush to serve the park-and-ride is just to cover up for the mistake of building it where they did in the first place (which is another example of the MTA covering for another agency's mistakes, the same way they did for the DOE and for LIB).

 

1) Yeah, well this shouldn't come as a surprise. You can't expect ridership to be high well after AE7 was cut. The Park & Ride route should've been created sooner. It's too late now since now folks have already found alternatives. Aside from that you only have select X22s serving the Park & Ride which means for example that if the 15:15 is MIA for some reason, you're stuck waiting an HOUR for the next X22 that serves the Park & Ride, which pretty much limits your options. To add injury to insult, you get to wait for two X22s to pass you by until the next one that you need comes by.

 

2) My other question is, will these runs be cut altogether, or will they become regular X22s again???

 

1) The AE7 didn't have a whole lot of ridership. I think it had 300-400 riders per day and not all of them came from the park-and-ride.

 

As far as buses serving the park-and-ride, you have to take Tottenville riders into consideration. They either have to sit while the bus makes the loop through the park-and-ride or if the bus ends there, then they get screwed.

 

2) They'll become regular X22 runs. The park-and-ride runs were simply regular X22 runs that were rerouted, so they'll just reverse it.

 

do you think x22 would become fulltime eventually

 

Anything's possible. I mean, the problem is that there is no fast alternative down in that area. The X17 meanders around Huguenot and Arden Heights and then goes all the way up Richmond Avenue, and the X1 has to go all the way up Hylan Blvd. I could see 60 minute off-peak service coming to the route in the future.

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dude that lives out in woodrow (who owes me money for that giants win on sunday!) says the 23 also runs right by him, but he took the 22 instead... I'll also ask him why he doesn't take the 23.... Maybe it's a distrust w/ AE, I dunno..... Anyway, he said ever since they cut service back to the park & ride, service on the 22 has gotten worse, especially towards manhattan

 

I argued from the very beginning that there should have been a separate park & ride service. The only reason the MTA is making these changes is because they saw how complicated the X22 was becoming to manage. If they had followed my suggestion, they could have implemented the service WITHOUT ADDING A SINGLE BUS.

 

The X23 and X24 are erratic at best. NYSDOT just hands them money because the people operating the service are "special". The only reason why they didn't get a subsidy to run the AE7 after they dropped it is because I wrote the community board a letter about their "special" behavior and the fact that the MTA could run the AE7 for CHEAPER than Atlantic could.

 

I enjoy seeing, however, that the MTA will do the right thing on occasion after exhausting all of the other options. They are going to save these folks 15-20 minutes each way and those buses are going to get overrun quickly.

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I enjoy seeing, however, that the MTA will do the right thing on occasion after exhausting all of the other options. They are going to save these folks 15-20 minutes each way and those buses are going to get overrun quickly.

 

So you predict P&R usage will skyrocket?

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The number in the Atlantic days was right around 150-175 from the Park & Ride. This is why it doesn't need every other bus to stop there. The facility needs 6-7 trips a day each way total. The first 2 buses and the last bus out of the 7 should be X22s, with the rest being X22As.

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The number in the Atlantic days was right around 150-175 from the Park & Ride. This is why it doesn't need every other bus to stop there. The facility needs 6-7 trips a day each way total. The first 2 buses and the last bus out of the 7 should be X22s, with the rest being X22As.

 

Remember that the X22As will be super expresses... You must mean that the rest should be regular X22s...

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Those AE buses are very well used, believe it or not....

 

...and forget about SI-ers taking any of the Hylan Blvd expresses to the SIR...

 

Agreed on both counts. I seen them AE buses packed to the brim.

 

Though I never understood why their service was so erratic to begin with. Often times I would see 2 x23s or x24s back to back or more!

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Agreed on both counts. I seen them AE buses packed to the brim.

 

Though I never understood why their service was so erratic to begin with. Often times I would see 2 x23s or x24s back to back or more!

 

It's an AE problem. Word is that the they seem to have more important priorities than the X23 and X24 and sometimes buses get pulled for other runs that Atlantic does. Don't know how true that is though.

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Remember that the X22As will be super expresses... You must mean that the rest should be regular X22s...

 

AM

6:00 X22

6:30 X22

7:00 X22A

7:20 X22A

7:40 X22A

8:00 X22A

8:30 X22

 

PM

4:00 X22

4:30 X22A

5:00 X22A

5:30 X22A

6:00 X22A

6:30 X22

7:00 X22

 

 

Hope this helps

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AM

6:00 X22

6:30 X22

7:00 X22A

7:20 X22A

7:40 X22A

8:00 X22A

8:30 X22

 

PM

4:00 X22

4:30 X22A

5:00 X22A

5:30 X22A

6:00 X22A

6:30 X22

7:00 X22

 

 

Hope this helps

 

So those would be the runs serving the park-and-ride, right? There would still be the other runs that strictly serve Bloomingdale Road.

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Correct.

 

I see. And I assume the X22s in the height of rush hour will terminate at the park-and-ride, and the ones at the shoulder of rush hour will continue to Tottenville.

 

* In response to B35's comment about the X22's ridership base not being Tottenville riders: Now that I think about it, because the X22A will only be picking up people from Tottenville and from the park-and-ride, it should have plenty of space for riders getting on at "The Checkpoint" (which seems to be a pretty big stop because of all the routes that stop there), so it will help out in that regard.

 

Add in the Travis riders and those buses should be more or less as full as the regular X22 buses (provided that they attempt to schedule the X22As so they get hit with the brunt of the passengers boarding, rather than having the other buses leave full and the X22A cruise by empty).

 

So I don't really see a downside to this (of course I know you weren't completely against it in the first place). Bloomingdale Road riders see slightly less service, but the people from Tottenville will likely time themselves for an X22A bus, leaving the X22s with more room for them, and Tottenville riders obviously get faster service. The downside is only for the people traveling at the tail end of rush hour going to Tottenville because they have to sit while the bus loops through the park-and-ride.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
AM

6:00 X22

6:30 X22

7:00 X22A

7:20 X22A

7:40 X22A

8:00 X22A

8:30 X22

 

PM

4:00 X22

4:30 X22A

5:00 X22A

5:30 X22A

6:00 X22A

6:30 X22

7:00 X22

 

 

Hope this helps

 

Your times are wrong. I have the new schedules in my hand.

 

AM

4:40 X22

4:55 22

5:10 22

5:25 22

5:40 22

5:50 X22A

5:53 22

6:05 22

6:19 X22A

6:30* BEGINS FROM BLOOMINGDALE RD AND SOUTH SERVICE RD

6:23 X22

6:31 22

6:38 22

6:47 X22A

6:59 *

6:48 X22

6:54 X22

6:59 X22

7:04 X22

7:15 X22A LAST 22A

7:09 X22

7:30*

Then X22's

7:19,7:24,7:29,7:37,7:45,7:55,8:05,8:25,8:45,9:05

 

PM

x22 2:45,3:15,3:40,3:55,

X22A 4:05

X22 4:15, 4:30

X22A 4:42

X22 4:44,4:52,5:00,5:08

X22A 5:12

X22 5:16,5:26,5:36,

X22A 5:41 LAST PM 22A

X22 5:48,6:00,6:12,6:30,6:50,7:15,7:45

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He's saying that's how the schedule should be. He didn't say that's how it would be in real life.

 

not how I read it. Besides I thought it would enlighten the forum since lately I see nothing but speculation and really bad info all over. No harm no foul huh?

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Your times are wrong. I have the new schedules in my hand.

 

AM

4:40 X22

4:55 22

5:10 22

5:25 22

5:40 22

5:50 X22A

5:53 22

6:05 22

6:19 X22A

6:30* BEGINS FROM BLOOMINGDALE RD AND SOUTH SERVICE RD

6:23 X22

6:31 22

6:38 22

6:47 X22A

6:59 *

6:48 X22

6:54 X22

6:59 X22

7:04 X22

7:15 X22A LAST 22A

7:09 X22

7:30*

Then X22's

7:19,7:24,7:29,7:37,7:45,7:55,8:05,8:25,8:45,9:05

 

PM

x22 2:45,3:15,3:40,3:55,

X22A 4:05

X22 4:15, 4:30

X22A 4:42

X22 4:44,4:52,5:00,5:08

X22A 5:12

X22 5:16,5:26,5:36,

X22A 5:41 LAST PM 22A

X22 5:48,6:00,6:12,6:30,6:50,7:15,7:45

 

Since you have all of the inside info, explain this to me because it pisses me to the core and it's one reason I'm moving to Riverdale and leaving Staten Island... Why is it that just about most of the SI routes have SO much service in the morning and practically NOTHING at night??? :mad::mad:

 

Look at the schedule you posted and tell me how it makes sense to have X22s from 04:40 in the morning and so many runs (which I know they need them), but then why only runs at night until 19:45??? Makes no sense. The level of morning service should be matched by the same level of evening service. It's like does the (MTA) think that the people that ride in the morning suddenly disappear at night???? B)

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I am not an "insider" i just pass along whatever info i get when its available. besides i only drive the bus. if i could have a say in scheduling , believe me i would bitch. but to answer based on my experience doin this 12 years is that latter in evening there are not as many people waiting for certain buses. i think service should start earlier on some lines. The geniuses at the mta are gonna tell you that there are other buses or trains available to you. not a valid answer by no means but its a system that needs a major overhaul.

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