MTA/NICE Relationship

[LI Operator]

Something that should be noted about the NICE fleet... Veolia is training their new operators on a Demo Orion VII Hybrid. They also have aprox 160 of these on order, the first 30 to be delivered during the first half of January. I haven't been able to confirm though if they will definitely be Hybrid or CNG. On an interesting note on the current relationship... the MTA is not allowing Veolia to keep the Demo bus on the property until after the changeover, which delayed the delivery of their new order as well.

[R32 3838]

Something that should be noted about the NICE fleet... Veolia is training their new operators on a Demo Orion VII Hybrid. They also have aprox 160 of these on order, the first 30 to be delivered during the first half of January. I haven't been able to confirm though if they will definitely be Hybrid or CNG. On an interesting note on the current relationship... the MTA is not allowing Veolia to keep the Demo bus on the property until after the changeover, which delayed the delivery of their new order as well.

 

I heard the samething, this is odd it looks like the CNG's will ether get scrapped or they will go to the , they should give us the 1600-1699 batch send them to bus ONLY but i would doubt that would happen with all these Brand New CNG's coming in

[JAzumah]

According to the bid, all of Nassau County's fleet (including the MTA's batch) are staying. It would make sense for NICE to keep the MetroCard because it minimizes cash handling. I do not expect unlimited cards to be accepted because I expect the free transfer to/from NYCT & MTA Bus to disappear. I expect that onnly pay per ride cards will be accepted a la AirTrain and PATH.

[Joel Up Front]

Didn't Nassau County actually buy the Orion Vs, anyway?

[RokuSix]

The MTA knows good and well what they're doing. Nassau County and Mangano, I'm sure, are shitting bricks right now because Veolia sold a good chunk of their transportation assets. Notice how Nassau County is trying to keep a relationship with the MTA up in case Veolia, you know, falls flat like many private corporations do.

[Ty24]

I heard the samething, this is odd it looks like the CNG's will ether get scrapped or they will go to the , they should give us the 1600-1699 batch send them to bus ONLY but i would doubt that would happen with all these Brand New CNG's coming in

 

That wouldn't happen lol....1526-1699 are Nassau county's buses including 1700-1759.. Now as ENY stated 1760-1839 are a different story...

 

Most of 1526-1599 may end up being replaced especially the ones on the side of the depot..

[RailBus63]

The MTA knows good and well what they're doing. Nassau County and Mangano, I'm sure, are shitting bricks right now because Veolia sold a good chunk of their transportation assets.

 

Too many folks are confused about this. Nothing has fundamentally changed - Veolia is bowing out, but they sold their 50 percent stake of Veolia Transportation to their partner who already owns the other 50 percent. This happens all the time in the corporate world and will make no difference in VT's ability to carry out the Nassau contract or its other agreements.

[East New York]

Something that should be noted about the NICE fleet... Veolia is training their new operators on a Demo Orion VII Hybrid. They also have aprox 160 of these on order, the first 30 to be delivered during the first half of January. I haven't been able to confirm though if they will definitely be Hybrid or CNG. On an interesting note on the current relationship... the MTA is not allowing Veolia to keep the Demo bus on the property until after the changeover, which delayed the delivery of their new order as well.

 

Hybrid?????? I didn't know Long Island had an infrastructure that would support a whole fleet of diesels. My Orion guy said CNG anyway..... This is interesting. I'll have to get the whole scoop on this Tuesday! Quite interesting.

[Joel Up Front]

I'm sure the depots still have the diesel pumps but those haven't been used since early 2009. Pretty sure LI Operator or Hound would know more.

[East New York]

According to the bid, all of Nassau County's fleet (including the MTA's batch) are staying. It would make sense for NICE to keep the MetroCard because it minimizes cash handling. I do not expect unlimited cards to be accepted because I expect the free transfer to/from NYCT & MTA Bus to disappear. I expect that onnly pay per ride cards will be accepted a la AirTrain and PATH.

 

In my opinion it would be stupid to not have free transfers. There are too many people that will need NICE/MTA direct transfers.

 

I'm sure the depots still have the diesel pumps but those haven't been used since early 2009. Pretty sure LI Operator or Hound would know more.

 

Yeah I know they can put the operation back into motion, but that would be stupid. Unless these buses are MTA owned, and NICE operated, how the hell can Nassau afford to add new technologies to the fleet?

 

We can't afford to pay MTA, but we can afford to intoduce Diesel-Electric hybrids into an all CNG operation?

[Ty24]

Unless these buses are MTA owned, and NICE operated, how the hell can Nassau afford to add new technologies to the fleet?

 

We can't afford to pay MTA, but we can afford to intoduce Diesel-Electric hybrids into an all CNG operation?

 

Exactly!

 

Ed Mangano and these Republicans

are a joke!

[checkmatechamp13]

In my opinion it would be stupid to not have free transfers. There are too many people that will need NICE/MTA direct transfers.

 

 

Yeah, it would help the riders, but it would also cut into their revenue. Not only would they not get as much revenue from the riders, but they would also have to run additional service to accomodate the riders who are only riding because of the free transfer (if there was no free transfer, they'd say "screw it" and just take the LIRR)

 

I mean, the N4 costs around $2 per passenger to operate, but a lot of the people are transferring from the subway and buses at Jamaica, which means that they are losing money from that route because the average fare paid is probably around $1.50 (say, if a passenger uses a pay-per-ride MetroCard with a bonus, they pay $2.10 and half that amount goes towards the N4, so it's $1.05, but then half the riders pay the full fare so it comes out to be a $1.50 average fare per passenger).

 

If they remove the free transfers to NYCT/MTAB services, the average fare will be a little less than $2 (because there will still be some people transferring to/from other LIB routes), and the cost per passenger will be roughly the same because the levels of crowding will be the same on each bus.

[error46146]

MTA needs to seize the opportunity and suck as much $$$ out of veolia and LI as possible...we could definitely use that extra cash for our own services.

[Phantom909]

Exactly!

 

Ed Mangano and these Republicans

are a joke!

 

Republicans like cuomo, Shumer, and Gillebrand, oh wait they`re democrats who haven`t lifted one finger to help LI Bus. There is plenty of blame to go around.

 

Joe

[Phantom909]

MTA needs to seize the opportunity and suck as much $$$ out of veolia and LI as possible...we could definitely use that extra cash for our own services.

 

So you advocate seizing money from someone else for you. You sound like Marx, Stalin, Mao, Alinsky and Obama.

 

Joe

[Ty24]

Republicans like cuomo, Shumer, and Gillebrand, oh wait they`re democrats who haven`t lifted one finger to help LI Bus. There is plenty of blame to go around.

 

Joe

 

Why everytime Mangano's named is mentioned you seem to disapprove?

 

Yes it's Cuomo's fault to, but the majority of the fault is MANGANO all he had to do was pay the MTA their money..I don't want to hear you or anyone else say Nassau county is broke when that's not the case!.... It's other ways Mangano could have found to fund LI Bus.. Ohhhhh like all the red light cameras we have out here that catch people run red lights through-out the day that I see myself while on the bus.. You may have voted for him which is your business, but I don't agree with what he is doing at all. Public Transportation is a NEED! This situation is more political than anything else , which it shouldn't be.. All the people that think they are better than another person just because they have more money then someone else, have more materialistic things like, expensive cars and other stuff are in for a rude awakening one day they will'nt have those things anymore and will see how it feels. You won't die with all your precious money or cars. All that stuff can disappear in a blink of an eye..This county is full of people who think buses shouldn't be around since they are rich and have it all everybody doesn't have it all though and life isn't about being rich and having it all.... Like I said the majority of the BLAME IS ON MANGANO/NASSAU County not the MTA.

[qjtransitmaster]

Yeah, it would help the riders, but it would also cut into their revenue. Not only would they not get as much revenue from the riders, but they would also have to run additional service to accomodate the riders who are only riding because of the free transfer (if there was no free transfer, they'd say "screw it" and just take the LIRR)

 

I mean, the N4 costs around $2 per passenger to operate, but a lot of the people are transferring from the subway and buses at Jamaica, which means that they are losing money from that route because the average fare paid is probably around $1.50 (say, if a passenger uses a pay-per-ride MetroCard with a bonus, they pay $2.10 and half that amount goes towards the N4, so it's $1.05, but then half the riders pay the full fare so it comes out to be a $1.50 average fare per passenger).

 

If they remove the free transfers to NYCT/MTAB services, the average fare will be a little less than $2 (because there will still be some people transferring to/from other LIB routes), and the cost per passenger will be roughly the same because the levels of crowding will be the same on each bus.

 

Dude if ppl abandon N4 for LIRR then revenue will DROP NOT INCREASE!!!!!!!! Cause the lack of free transfers will slaughter ridership levels on many queens bound lines. So you are inaccurate cause that would mean emptier buses and in turn less service and the destructive cycle of service cuts and plummeting ridership will begin. If your idea were to be implemented then crowding levels will PLUMMET!!!!!!!!!! Thus Skyrocketing the cost of operating bus service from nassau to queens as soon ppl will simply stop using it in favor of LIRR. The offpeak ridership will literally almost disappear cause there would be no reason to use the bus over the LIRR due to lack of free transfers. Think use LIB before you even talk about what the fares should be. Buses like N20 may lose it's great neck riders to LIRR without free transfers ridership will drop too sharply to even consider losing free transfers.

 

MTA needs to seize the opportunity and suck as much $$$ out of veolia and LI as possible...we could definitely use that extra cash for our own services.

 

Your name literally says it all this idea has many errors in it over 9000 of em to be exact. You are encouraging more car use with this idiotic idea. You are downright selfish.

[Homeslice]

In my opinion it would be stupid to not have free transfers. There are too many people that will need NICE/MTA direct transfers.

 

I totally agree. But I just have that feeling they'll get rid of those, MetroCard or no MetroCard. If I can't use my unlimited MetroCard on NICE, then forget it. I don't need to pony up extra $$$$ just to get somewhere. I'll stay home or take the LIRR to the city more often if I have to.

 

Remember I thought things were looking up?...yeah, evidently I lied. :tdown:

[qjtransitmaster]

I totally agree. But I just have that feeling they'll get rid of those, MetroCard or no MetroCard. If I can't use my unlimited MetroCard on NICE, then forget it. I don't need to pony up extra $$$$ just to get somewhere. I'll stay home or take the LIRR to the city more often if I have to.

 

Remember I thought things were looking up?...yeah, evidently I lied. :tdown:

 

They'd have to be really HIGH to get rid of metrocard transfers.

[checkmatechamp13]

Dude if ppl abandon N4 for LIRR then revenue will DROP NOT INCREASE!!!!!!!! Cause the lack of free transfers will slaughter ridership levels on many queens bound lines. So you are inaccurate cause that would mean emptier buses and in turn less service and the destructive cycle of service cuts and plummeting ridership will begin. If your idea were to be implemented then crowding levels will PLUMMET!!!!!!!!!! Thus Skyrocketing the cost of operating bus service from nassau to queens as soon ppl will simply stop using it in favor of LIRR. The offpeak ridership will literally almost disappear cause there would be no reason to use the bus over the LIRR due to lack of free transfers. Think use LIB before you even talk about what the fares should be. Buses like N20 may lose it's great neck riders to LIRR without free transfers ridership will drop too sharply to even consider losing free transfers.

 

 

You're only further proving my point.

 

Say the MTA decides to be generous and give half the fare to Veolia. That means that for every passenger riding the N4, they get $1.05. However, the cost to provide the service is close to $2 per passenger, but they're only receiving $1.05. That means that they are losing money by accepting these free transfers.

 

If they don't accept MTA transfers, the costs will remain the same for the simple reason that they will reduce service so that the crowding and cost per passenger is roughly the same as it is today, but with less frequent service. The buses will probably be slightly less crowded because Veolia knows that if the buses are too crowded (and the waits are longer) the people will give up and switch to the LIRR and they won't get any money at all.

 

That's the point. They want to start a cycle of cuts leading to cuts because they aren't receiving the funds they need to run a decent system.

 

And if the MTA decides not to be generous and doesn't want to eat any of the cost for the transfers, you can forget about it. Veolia isn't going to run buses if it can't make revenue from them. If it's going into Queens, a bus carrying 10 passengers ($20 worth of revenue) is better than a bus carrying 80 passengers who all paid with a transfer. It's simple math.

[Joel Up Front]

Why everytime Mangano's named is mentioned you seem to disapprove?

 

Yes it's Cuomo's fault to, but the majority of the fault is MANGANO all he had to do was pay the MTA their money..I don't want to hear you or anyone else say Nassau county is broke when that's not the case!.... It's other ways Mangano could have found to fund LI Bus.. Ohhhhh like all the red light camera's we have out here that catch people run red lights through-out the day that I see myself while on the bus.. You may have voted for him which is your business, but I don't agree with what he is doing at all. Public Transportation is a NEED! This situation is more political than anything else , which it shouldn't be.. All the people that think they are better than another person just because they have more money then someone else, have more materialistic things like, expensive cars and other stuff are in for a rude awakening one day they will not have those things anymore and will see how it feels. You won't die with all your precious money or cars. All that stuff can disappear in a blink of an eye..This county is full of people who think buses shouldn't be around since they are rich and have it all everybody doesn't have it all though and life isn't about being rich and having it all.... Like I said the majority of the BLAME IS ON MANGANO/NASSAU County not the MTA.

 

Not worth arguing with his pensioner ass, he won't care if you "don't pay property taxes" for "as long as you've been alive."

 

He at least worked for LIB/MSBA when Nassau County at least contributed something towards its operation. I do wonder if it was the same amount as the is asking for now (adjusted for inflation).

[PinePower]

I totally agree. But I just have that feeling they'll get rid of those, MetroCard or no MetroCard. If I can't use my unlimited MetroCard on NICE, then forget it. I don't need to pony up extra $$$$ just to get somewhere. I'll stay home or take the LIRR to the city more often if I have to.

 

Remember I thought things were looking up?...yeah, evidently I lied. :tdown:

 

If the free transfers and unlimiteds go, so does whatever semblence of mainstream ridership for the Nassau Bus system. Quite a few commuters use the Queens routes such as the N20/21 and N22.

The bus is already viewed as a "last resort" by many folks, getting rid of unlimited metrocards and subway transfers will send the system into a death spiral. It will also affect those who are elderly/disabeld who use Reduced Fare Metrocards (EZ Pay) as well....since if its like PATH they arent accepted..

[Phantom909]

Why everytime Mangano's named is mentioned you seem to disapprove?

 

Yes it's Cuomo's fault to, but the majority of the fault is MANGANO all he had to do was pay the MTA their money..I don't want to hear you or anyone else say Nassau county is broke when that's not the case!.... It's other ways Mangano could have found to fund LI Bus.. Ohhhhh like all the red light cameras we have out here that catch people run red lights through-out the day that I see myself while on the bus.. You may have voted for him which is your business, but I don't agree with what he is doing at all. Public Transportation is a NEED! This situation is more political than anything else , which it shouldn't be.. All the people that think they are better than another person just because they have more money then someone else, have more materialistic things like, expensive cars and other stuff are in for a rude awakening one day they will'nt have those things anymore and will see how it feels. You won't die with all your precious money or cars. All that stuff can disappear in a blink of an eye..This county is full of people who think buses shouldn't be around since they are rich and have it all everybody doesn't have it all though and life isn't about being rich and having it all.... Like I said the majority of the BLAME IS ON MANGANO/NASSAU County not the MTA.

 

Did Mangano negotiate all the contracts that give Nassau county employees their salaries and benefits? NO

 

Did he set up 56 seperate school districts? NO

 

Did Mangano set up the outrageous property tax rates that are driving taxpayers out of the county? NO

 

If you took the time to read everything that I`ve said on this issue, you will see I am against the Privitization. All Ive tried to point out that this has been a long time in the making. EVERYONE today and in the past are to blame for it. When posters like you don`t or refuse to learn why LI Bus is in the mess it`s in. I`m trying to educate you. BTW I did not vote for Mangano, I voted for Suozzi.

 

My 3 questions above are 3 issues that county taxpayers like myself have asked and agree are a few of the biggest financial problems we have here. Mangano, or anyone else who would be County Executive, can`t just wave a magic wand and make disappear. I agree public transportation is a need, but he doesnt have the money, and even if he did he couldnt spend it without NIFA approval. Albany dosnt care thats why they wont help. Schumer jumps in front of TV cameras every Sunday, for a dog and pony show, about some issue. Has he done one or LI Bus? NO, why? cause he dont care about you either.

 

So let`s see, You are County Executive Ty24. Where are you getting $20,000,000 to pay the MTA? I eagerly await your plan.

 

Joe

[Phantom909]

Not worth arguing with his pensioner ass, he won't care if you "don't pay property taxes" for "as long as you've been alive."

 

Pensioner ass? First of all im not that old. second of all for someone who`s biggest accomplishment in life is learning to wipe your own ass, you sure talk like you have all the answers.

 

So let me make you County Executive Joel Up Front. Where are you getting the $20,000,000 dollars to pay the MTA? You seem to have all the answers , lets hear it.

 

Joe

[qjtransitmaster]

If the free transfers and unlimiteds go, so does whatever semblence of mainstream ridership for the Nassau Bus system. Quite a few commuters use the Queens routes such as the N20/21 and N22.

The bus is already viewed as a "last resort" by many folks, getting rid of unlimited metrocards and subway transfers will send the system into a death spiral. It will also affect those who are elderly/disabeld who use Reduced Fare Metrocards (EZ Pay) as well....since if its like PATH they arent accepted..

 

most real post I've heard from you couldn't say it better myself killing metrocard is SUICIDE!!!!!!!!! The system is already embarrasing with it's ridership I mean a bigger richer county with a smaller population to boot has a larger ridership base than the LIB shitstorm. That county is montgomery county,MD to make things more embarrasing their connecting major providers are WMATA and MARC both have a much smaller ridership base than the subway and LIRR. I call BULL SHIT on the rich ppl argument. 100,000 riders with a population of 1.3 million and the largest commuter rail in the country and 24/7 subway system connecting to many queens to nassau routes vs almost 1 million riders or even more a population of 971,777 and a vastly inferior WMATA connecting service and sad excuse for commuter rail MARC. Literally there is NO EXCUSE.