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Via Garibaldi 8

New X10 Destination sign

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So since Castleton has started receiving just about all of the 22XXs from Yukon, I've noticed in the evenings while waiting for the X30 or X14 or whatever that some of the newer MCIs say "X10 PT RICHMOND" "via BROADWAY" and on the 27XXs, etc. they'll say "PT RICHMOND" "via BWAY". Some months ago, I had mentioned how it was a PITA to decipher whether or not an X10 was a X10B or an X10C and I was wondering if this slight change in the destination signage had anything to do with that? :confused:

 

If so then I guess I wasn't only one that was complaining, although a certain someone B) doesn't think that it's confusing. I think the scenario in which it could be confusing is if you come and wait for the X10C and an X10B pulls in late and you don't know that it's an X10B, which has happened to me a few times actually. In my case it wasn't a biggie since I get off at Slosson, but for others needing the stops before Slosson it would be a real PITA. :eek:

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I think the people who ride the Express bus would know which bus to take regardless of what the sign says

 

And tell me how we would?? If you get on at 13th street and Broadway and it's around the time that the last X10"B" is scheduled to come but you want the X10"C", you would have no way of knowing if it was a "B" or a "C" since all of the old signs say "X10 PT RICHMOND". I've been using the line for 6 years now regularly and there is no way to tell until you reach Houston St and see the bus either turn there following the X10"B" route, or continue straight down Broadway following the X10"C" route. Since the letters aren't in the actual sign but rather on the schedule, one can easily forget about some of the X10s that don't follow the more common X10"C" route. Hell, even some of the B/Os forget about the service patterns. I've had some B/Os skip all of the stops after Slosson Avenue when going to Manhattan on Saturday and continue on the SIE and over the Verrazano when they should be making all stops on the weekends after Slosson Avenue along the service road.

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I think the people who ride the Express bus would know which bus to take regardless of what the sign says

 

If you're talkin about what the "destination" portion of the sign says, that's true to an extent......

It's not really a gripe per se, but you do have b/o's that forget to change the sign to read the correct destination....

 

Just yesterday I got on a BM2 (coming home) that still had the midtown-57th st reading.... Of course, waiting along 5th av, I knew it was a canarsie bound bus......

 

However, if you have a route that has 2 different end terminals, and the wrong one is shown on the destination sign

(without you, the passenger knowing that it's wrong - until it's too late), you're screwed....

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And tell me how we would?? If you get on at 13th street and Broadway and it's around the time that the last X10"B" is scheduled to come but you want the X10"C", you would have no way of knowing if it was a "B" or a "C" since all of the old signs say "X10 PT RICHMOND". I've been using the line for 6 years now regularly and there is no way to tell until you reach Houston St and see the bus either turn there following the X10"B" route, or continue straight down Broadway following the X10"C" route. Since the letters aren't in the actual sign but rather on the schedule, one can easily forget about some of the X10s that don't follow the more common X10"C" route. Hell, even some of the B/Os forget about the service patterns. I've had some B/Os skip all of the stops after Slosson Avenue when going to Manhattan on Saturday and continue on the SIE and over the Verrazano when they should be making all stops on the weekends after Slosson Avenue along the service road.

 

Outbound, what the MTA needs to put a sign on PM rush hour X10s to say: X10 Port Richmond - 1st Stop Slosson. Inbound, during the AM rush, the variations should be used.

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Hell, even some of the B/Os forget about the service patterns. I've had some B/Os skip all of the stops after Slosson Avenue when going to Manhattan on Saturday and continue on the SIE and over the Verrazano when they should be making all stops on the weekends after Slosson Avenue along the service road.

 

I know you were referencing me in the title. B) In any case, the point I was making was that it doesn't matter what the X10 does in Manhattan. If I'm waiting at Broadway/13th Street and an X10 shows up, I really don't care whether it's going down Broadway or West Street. What I do care about is whether it's going down Narrows Road North or staying on the SIE. That's what they should put on the sign.

 

Besides, there are 2 X10C (in the PM rush) buses that bypass Narrows Road North, so somebody could see "via Broadway" and get on thinking it'll automatically stop along Narrows Road North and be in for an unpleasant surprise when it bypasses the stops (and of course, it's a PITA trying to get back when the Manhattan-bound X10 runs every 30 minutes, and some B/Os might be strict about the pick-up only rule). In the morning, there used be be a couple of X10Cs mixed in with the X10Bs, but of course, it was easier because they said "via Church" instead of "via West Street".

 

So basically, this is a waste of time. They should emphasize the SI streets it travels on. As of now, the riders still have to ask the driver if the bus makes stops along Narrows Road North or not.

 

As for the quoted comment, I remember a few years ago, the X10 was running late and our follower caught up to us at Slosson Avenue, so the B/O told the other bus to take the service road while we would take the SIE. And another time, there was a B/O who arrived at Manor Road 10 minutes early, and on top of that, he had the nerve to argue with the dispatcher to not only leave the stop early, but take the SIE right into Manhattan. The dispatcher gave in, sadly. B)

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is there a revision to all the signs from those

listings ---boros,,specials,,etc====that large listing recently posted

 

steve

fdny

:(:)

 

 

 

 

[/b]

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I know you were referencing me in the title. :( In any case, the point I was making was that it doesn't matter what the X10 does in Manhattan. If I'm waiting at Broadway/13th Street and an X10 shows up, I really don't care whether it's going down Broadway or West Street. What I do care about is whether it's going down Narrows Road North or staying on the SIE. That's what they should put on the sign.

 

Besides, there are 2 X10C (in the PM rush) buses that bypass Narrows Road North, so somebody could see "via Broadway" and get on thinking it'll automatically stop along Narrows Road North and be in for an unpleasant surprise when it bypasses the stops (and of course, it's a PITA trying to get back when the Manhattan-bound X10 runs every 30 minutes, and some B/Os might be strict about the pick-up only rule). In the morning, there used be be a couple of X10Cs mixed in with the X10Bs, but of course, it was easier because they said "via Church" instead of "via West Street".

 

So basically, this is a waste of time. They should emphasize the SI streets it travels on. As of now, the riders still have to ask the driver if the bus makes stops along Narrows Road North or not.

 

As for the quoted comment, I remember a few years ago, the X10 was running late and our follower caught up to us at Slosson Avenue, so the B/O told the other bus to take the service road while we would take the SIE. And another time, there was a B/O who arrived at Manor Road 10 minutes early, and on top of that, he had the nerve to argue with the dispatcher to not only leave the stop early, but take the SIE right into Manhattan. The dispatcher gave in, sadly. ;)

 

 

That's news to me about the X10C having two runs during the rush that bypass Narrows Road North... :confused: How do know that??? Now I do know about the X10C that bypasses Narrows Road South in the morning rush because I've used it here and there, but I have never seen any X10Cs bypass those stops on Narrows Road North regularly. If we've passed them it's been because the B/O did so purposely. We had one B/O ask if anyone was getting off at any of the stops along the service road before Slosson since the bus wasn't that crowded and he bypassed all of them using the SIE since no one was getting off before Slosson. It has happened a few other times before going back to Staten Island, but those were detours.

 

The point I was making was that if all X10Cs don't skip those stops going back to Staten Island on the service road, then having the "via Broadway" signage makes it very clear which pattern the bus will take when it arrives on Staten Island, since in theory (as far as I know), only the X10Bs bypass the service road stops in the evenings going back to Staten Island and they use West Street once they reach Houston Street.

 

About that B/O I'm not surprised. It seems like the dispatch at Castleton just allows whatever to happen.

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That's news to me about the X10C having two runs during the rush that bypass Narrows Road North... :confused: How do know that??? Now I do know about the X10C that bypasses Narrows Road South in the morning rush because I've used it here and there, but I have never seen any X10Cs bypass those stops on Narrows Road North regularly. If we've passed them it's been because the B/O did so purposely. We had one B/O ask if anyone was getting off at any of the stops along the service road before Slosson since the bus wasn't that crowded and he bypassed all of them using the SIE since no one was getting off before Slosson. It has happened a few other times before going back to Staten Island, but those were detours.

 

The point I was making was that if all X10Cs don't skip those stops going back to Staten Island on the service road, then having the "via Broadway" signage makes it very clear which pattern the bus will take when it arrives on Staten Island, since in theory (as far as I know), only the X10Bs bypass the service road stops in the evenings going back to Staten Island and they use West Street once they reach Houston Street.

 

About that B/O I'm not surprised. It seems like the dispatch at Castleton just allows whatever to happen.

 

Check the schedule. The 15:00 and 15:20 runs out of 57th Street have a "#" sign next to them. Look at the footnote at the bottom of the page (4/10) and it'll say that it means that the first SI stop is Slosson Avenue.

 

They started the "#" designation a couple of years ago. Before that, you couldn't figure out whether the first stop was Slosson Avenue or Fingerboard Road for those PM runs (you could always ask the driver, but that means it's a PITA to plan a trip in advance because you don't know whether the bus will serve your stop). Also, look at the legend on page 9/10. Narrows Road North is shaded lightly, which means that it's possible for a bus on the edge of rush hour to bypass those stops (which is indeed the case for a few runs)

 

And there used to be 2 other X10Cs that bypassed Arrochar in the morning. I know one left Port Richmond at 07:13 and I believe another left Port Richmond at 06:32 (I'm not sure about this one, but I'm positive about the 07:13 one)

 

But in any case, it's better to know the SI routing than the Manhattan routing, even if the Manhattan routing supposedly corresponds with a certain SI routing (which as I've said there are a couple of exceptions). Say the last X14 of the night is missing, a dispatcher might want to send the last X10B of the night via Narrows Road North, and it's easier to do it when you have a clear destination code, rather than "via West Street". Or say, you have X10Cs bunched together (say there was a traffic jam going to Manhattan, so they're bunched up starting all the way from 57th Street), you can send one via the SIE and one via Narrows Road North.

 

I'm not denying that there needs to be clarification, but I think it's more important to clarify the SI route than the Manhattan route. Nobody's riding the X10 within Manhattan (or at least, they aren't supposed to, so we shouldn't gear a destination sign towards them), so they don't care whether it goes via West Street or Broadway, but they do care if it's going to be bypassing the service road.

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Check the schedule. The 15:00 and 15:20 runs out of 57th Street have a "#" sign next to them. Look at the footnote at the bottom of the page (4/10) and it'll say that it means that the first SI stop is Slosson Avenue.

 

They started the "#" designation a couple of years ago. Before that, you couldn't figure out whether the first stop was Slosson Avenue or Fingerboard Road for those PM runs (you could always ask the driver, but that means it's a PITA to plan a trip in advance because you don't know whether the bus will serve your stop). Also, look at the legend on page 9/10. Narrows Road North is shaded lightly, which means that it's possible for a bus on the edge of rush hour to bypass those stops (which is indeed the case for a few runs)

 

And there used to be 2 other X10Cs that bypassed Arrochar in the morning. I know one left Port Richmond at 07:13 and I believe another left Port Richmond at 06:32 (I'm not sure about this one, but I'm positive about the 07:13 one)

 

But in any case, it's better to know the SI routing than the Manhattan routing, even if the Manhattan routing supposedly corresponds with a certain SI routing (which as I've said there are a couple of exceptions). Say the last X14 of the night is missing, a dispatcher might want to send the last X10B of the night via Narrows Road North, and it's easier to do it when you have a clear destination code, rather than "via West Street". Or say, you have X10Cs bunched together (say there was a traffic jam going to Manhattan, so they're bunched up starting all the way from 57th Street), you can send one via the SIE and one via Narrows Road North.

 

I'm not denying that there needs to be clarification, but I think it's more important to clarify the SI route than the Manhattan route. Nobody's riding the X10 within Manhattan (or at least, they aren't supposed to, so we shouldn't gear a destination sign towards them), so they don't care whether it goes via West Street or Broadway, but they do care if it's going to be bypassing the service road.

 

 

Well I'll be damned... You know I never paid attention to that. I remember years ago when I first started taking the express bus and needed to work late and started studying the X10 and the X1 as options. The X1 was easy but the X10 was like a ******* maze! :mad: I was like what in the hell is all of this?? Now that you pointed that out it all makes sense. You need to ride the route at those times to understand why they have the X10 like this. Those "C" runs that bypass the service road do so because the X14 and X15 serve Targee & Richmond Rd and of course you have a ton of other options for Fingerboard & at Hylan (both Downtown & Midtown runs). Having those two runs and the B runs bypass the service road obviously provides a quicker commute for the folks that really need the X10 and have very few express bus options (i.e Wooley, Bradley, and the stops after that until you get to say Richmond Avenue). Aside from the that, the ridership is there to support those runs bypassing the service road, otherwise you could have some X10s be SRO. However, as you noted (now that I see your point), it is pointless to put "via Broadway" when some of those runs bypass the service road. They would be better off putting X10B, X10C, etc. but I guess they don't consider what the X10 does to be different variations of the X10 route, since all of them do go to 57th street.

 

However, one may want to avoid the X10Bs because they are usually packed, so the "via Broadway" sign is helpful for those looking to avoid sardine express buses. I learned how crowded those Bs get when I took one from my office to the hearing at CSI. :(:(

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However, as you noted (now that I see your point), it is pointless to put "via Broadway" when some of those runs bypass the service road. They would be better off putting X10B, X10C, etc. but I guess they don't consider what the X10 does to be different variations of the X10 route, since all of them do go to 57th street.

 

However, one may want to avoid the X10Bs because they are usually packed, so the "via Broadway" sign is helpful for those looking to avoid sardine express buses. I learned how crowded those Bs get when I took one from my office to the hearing at CSI. :(:(

 

But putting X10B, X10C, etc would essentially be replicating the same problem: You have X10C buses that stay on the SIE until Slosson Avenue.

 

But as far as avoiding the crowded buses, you could always put both a Manhattan routing and an SI routing. For instance, the three variations could be:

 

* X10: Port Richmond via Broadway, via Narrows Road North

 

* X10: Port Richmond via West Street, via SI Expwy

 

* X10: Port Richmond via Broadway, via SI Expwy

 

Of course, going to Manhattan, the destinations are fine the way they are ("via West Street, via Madison", or "via Church Street, via Madison")

 

I assume the buses on West Street get out of Manhattan faster than the buses on Broadway, which is why they're more crowded. This way, people can tell from a distance whether the bus will stop in Arrochar and whether it goes down Broadway or West Street, so if 2 buses come at once you can figure out which is better to get on.

 

And just in case you were interested, you can walk down Christopher Lane from the X17J to get to CSI, and it'll be faster than taking the X10 all the way from Midtown. Of course, it only does you good if you're in a hurry.

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But putting X10B, X10C, etc would essentially be replicating the same problem: You have X10C buses that stay on the SIE until Slosson Avenue.

 

But as far as avoiding the crowded buses, you could always put both a Manhattan routing and an SI routing. For instance, the three variations could be:

 

* X10: Port Richmond via Broadway, via Narrows Road North

 

* X10: Port Richmond via West Street, via SI Expwy

 

* X10: Port Richmond via Broadway, via SI Expwy

 

I assume the buses on West Street get out of Manhattan faster than the buses on Broadway, which is why they're more crowded. This way, people can tell from a distance whether the bus will stop in Arrochar and whether it goes down Broadway or West Street, so if 2 buses come at once you can figure out which is better to get on.

 

And just in case you were interested, you can walk down Christopher Lane from the X17J to get to CSI, and it'll be faster than taking the X10 all the way from Midtown. Of course, it only does you good if you're in a hurry.

 

 

Well the lettering could work if done right, but your suggestion could work too, but the key thing would be to ensure that all of the buses have the correct destination signs AND that the B/O knows which one to use.

 

As for the X17J idea, I would get off and transfer to the X10 to CSI. No way am I walking all the way from Christopher Lane... No no no... :mad: :tdown::tdown: Another idea is just to take the X31 from Midtown and transfer to the X10 there.

 

You know what's interesting is how many folks use the X10 as a local bus on Staten Island. I see them get on at say Richmond Avenue and they'll get off somewhere by say Manor Rd & Schmidts or the service road. A lot quicker and safer than using the local bus I guess. Hell I've done it. I've used the X10 from CSI to Manor & Schmidts and took the S54 home. :cool:

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