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Printing and carrying Rules of Conduct


sovetskii52

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Lol stop scaring everybody dude, subway photography taken by civilians not associated with the press is indeed legal (No trespassing into unauthorized zones, no ancillary equipment such as flash or tripods, otherwise legal 100% as I was saying).

 

I'm sure of it.

 

The jist of the discussion the fact that is the NYPD being on heightened scrutiny due to the nationwide terrorist attack alert and how to be more cautious and tactful in railfanning to get pics. I know the situation with the PAPD, we talked about that, the PATH rules are ridiculous with the Port Authority but the MTA rules and regulations states a different regulation on photography.

Heightened security is an excuse to be more suspicious, but not one to arrest or issue a TAB/court summons without there being an actual excuse, whether by law or TA Rule to do so. I understand these folks you talked to were told what they were told, but I'm wondering how they would (legally) be able to issue a summons or arrest without there being something written that AFAIK doesn't exist or at least has not been printed in the latest edition of the TA rules, remember something has to be cited for there to be a valid ticket. This is where not consenting to searches or anything like that comes into play, since the officers will likely realize there isn't a rule written down and will want to find something incriminating on you by means of a search (or worse, plant evidence) so you can be booked for anything else possible. Again this is based on my experience with how Port Authority PD does it, but I would imagine there's folks in the NYPD/MTAPD that would do the same.
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Bumping this thread with a definite on topic heads up as per NYPD and the MTA in the wake of the current Al Quada terrorist alert:

 

Taking photographs at the absolute ends of platforms with point and shoot cameras of tunnel views specifically are as of now temporarily prohibited. Be careful how you get proses for pics at stations where the NYPD presence is high. The penalty is $25 dollars as a civil violation as per the Transit Abduction Bureau because of the US Federal Government alert. Also be careful as to taking pics aimed at yards. Recall how strict guards are with regards to photography in areas such as Jamaica Yard.

 

****Note that it is still absolutely fine to take pics of subway cars and buses as per the MTA rules of conduct Section 1050.9, paragraph 3. That's OK.  Remember no ancillary equipment (Flash photography, tripods). The NYPD will not penalize you for taking regular pics or videos of trains or stations. That is obviously still in effect legal.

 

http://www.mta.info/nyct/rules/rules.htm

 

 

 No, your camera will not be confiscated, most likely, this is not the PAPD, the NYPD are very lenient on what is legal photography and what is not according to the clause quoted above. 

 

However, as mentioned before the police officer could issue you a ticket and run a criminal background check if this rule is violated because of the worldwide travel alert which applies not just to airports but rapid transit as well. The PO will most likely give you a warning, however better safe then sorry.

 

So in other words, if you are taking pics at the absolute end of platforms where you are right at the mark where the open passenger zone of platforms at stations end with a sign, red swing door or both, and you might be aiming with any point and shoot camera into the tunnel if there is no train there departing the station, be careful. The NYPD just may stop and question you and misconstrue an everyday photographer as a potential subject engaging in suspicious activity for taking so called 'illegal pics'.

 

Once the nationwide terrorist attack alert is over, the temporary precautions being carried out by the NYPD will be lifted, and all us transit enthusiast photagraphers can continue to take awesome pics without interruption from the temporary adjustment in the rules of conduct concerning legal photography which will be phased out after the high nationwide terrorist alert has passed.

 

Many thanks to the anonymous T/O's and TSS's by word of mouth on legal photography. So yes, continue to have fun taking the usual pics and videos (it is still LEGAL, don't worry) but please be aware, be discernful and concious of your surroundings, and don't do anything stupid.

 

I'm sorry, but this just isn't the way the law works. Activities that are legal can't suddenly become temporarily illegal. There is a process involved in changing the rules. You may recall that in 2004 the MTA actually proposed banning photography, but in the end the proposal went nowhere, and "Photography, filming or video recording in any facility or conveyance is [still] permitted."

 

Unfortunately, a lot of employees and police officers are misinformed about this. Perhaps this stems in part from the directive for transit employees to report suspicious activity for further investigation. But suspicious does not mean illegal, and a simple investigation may reveal that a photographer at the end of the platform is simply a railfan or artist. (After all, a photograph doesn't reveal anything that isn't visible to the naked eye.)

 

So if you enjoy taking pictures on transit property (or on public sidewalks), go right ahead. Anybody who claims that you're breaking the law is misinformed.

 

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/07/the-bus-depot-the-m-t-a-doesnt-want-you-to-see-or-does-it/

http://www.nyclu.org/case/barry-v-city-of-new-york-defending-right-take-photographs-nyc-subway-system

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It seems that much more transit workers and police officers outside this forum are not knowledged on the MTA Rules Of Conduct then I would have optimistically have believed. I was quite surprised by some of the experiences I had. Very disappointed by what some have told me and what confrontations I even had simply for taking pics of a system I actually pay for, money out of my pocket into collection revenue.

 

Well in musing on all of the comments, all I can say to this is that our hopes is that photography in the subway will remain legal without hindrance. As the transit enthusiast hobby is pretty much viral on the net as it is, and a hobby unique to New Yorkers, well really all urbanites around the globe. Thank you all, I will keep all these points in mind.

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Bumping this thread with a definite on topic heads up as per NYPD and the MTA in the wake of the current Al Quada terrorist alert:

 

Taking photographs at the absolute ends of platforms with point and shoot cameras of tunnel views specifically are as of now temporarily prohibited. Be careful how you get proses for pics at stations where the NYPD presence is high. The penalty is $25 dollars as a civil violation as per the Transit Abduction Bureau because of the US Federal Government alert. Also be careful as to taking pics aimed at yards. Recall how strict guards are with regards to photography in areas such as Jamaica Yard.

 

****Note that it is still absolutely fine to take pics of subway cars and buses as per the MTA rules of conduct Section 1050.9, paragraph 3. That's OK.  Remember no ancillary equipment (Flash photography, tripods). The NYPD will not penalize you for taking regular pics or videos of trains or stations. That is obviously still in effect legal.

 

http://www.mta.info/nyct/rules/rules.htm

 

 

 No, your camera will not be confiscated, most likely, this is not the PAPD, the NYPD are very lenient on what is legal photography and what is not according to the clause quoted above. 

 

However, as mentioned before the police officer could issue you a ticket and run a criminal background check if this rule is violated because of the worldwide travel alert which applies not just to airports but rapid transit as well. The PO will most likely give you a warning, however better safe then sorry.

 

So in other words, if you are taking pics at the absolute end of platforms where you are right at the mark where the open passenger zone of platforms at stations end with a sign, red swing door or both, and you might be aiming with any point and shoot camera into the tunnel if there is no train there departing the station, be careful. The NYPD just may stop and question you and misconstrue an everyday photographer as a potential subject engaging in suspicious activity for taking so called 'illegal pics'.

 

Once the nationwide terrorist attack alert is over, the temporary precautions being carried out by the NYPD will be lifted, and all us transit enthusiast photagraphers can continue to take awesome pics without interruption from the temporary adjustment in the rules of conduct concerning legal photography which will be phased out after the high nationwide terrorist alert has passed.

 

Many thanks to the anonymous T/O's and TSS's by word of mouth on legal photography. So yes, continue to have fun taking the usual pics and videos (it is still LEGAL, don't worry) but please be aware, be discernful and concious of your surroundings, and don't do anything stupid.

How do you know that Jamaica Yard has very strict guards. Is there any other subway yard with strict guards that can stop or question you?

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How do you know that Jamaica Yard has very strict guards. Is there any other subway yard with strict guards that can stop or question you?

 

This is what some railfanners has said on the net, even though I cannot remember where at the moment as I write this. However, again, it was already concluded that taking pics of trains even in yards is legal. So I wouldn't worry about it at this point. In fact I was taking pics very close to the prohibited zones even a few days ago and the police said nothing. As long as one literally is not committing trespassing then you are fine.

 

I saw the Jamaica yard pic you saw. That's 100%  legal. The shoot was made from a park trail in NYC Parks property, not on prohibited MTA property (i.E inside a yard) which is not open to passengers. The MTA is very vigilant about the yards because of what came out of the Graffiti movement of the 80's.

 

The NYPD and transit personnel were acting up that week was because of the Al Quada threat. But now it's calmed down and the smoke cleared finally. So don't concern yourself. Just as long as one *does not literally trespass into the yard, breaking in the zone*, to take pics then it is legal, regardless of what some officials or personell will tell you.

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It seems that much more transit workers and police officers outside this forum are not knowledged on the MTA Rules Of Conduct then I would have optimistically have believed. I was quite surprised by some of the experiences I had. Very disappointed by what some have told me and what confrontations I even had simply for taking pics of a system I actually pay for, money out of my pocket into collection revenue.

 

Well in musing on all of the comments, all I can say to this is that our hopes is that photography in the subway will remain legal without hindrance. As the transit enthusiast hobby is pretty much viral on the net as it is, and a hobby unique to New Yorkers, well really all urbanites around the globe. Thank you all, I will keep all these points in mind.

It's sad that memos after memos get sent to the TA crews and cops about the legality of it and many of them still like to think it's illegal.

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