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JubaionBx12+SBS

Is college is a scam? Let this film be the judge and jury

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didn't watch the video... but Yes....

 

AFAIC, It's the biggest scam we got goin in America today.....

 

OK. So are business schools bro(B35)but you got to be trained some where whether's it to become a nurse, teacher, computer programer or accountant.

So critics like B35 if college is so bad what do you propose to replace it?

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OK. So are business schools bro(B35)but you got to be trained some where whether's it to become a nurse, teacher, computer programer or accountant.

So critics like B35 if college is so bad what do you propose to replace it?

ahh, say what you want, but Universities, Business Schools, Technicial institutions, whatever.... all the same peas in a pod...

 

Why does it have to be about "replacing" it.....

The better question is, why are colleges out to get your money.....

Hell... Public elementary school, free.... junior high, free... high school, free....

 

Colleges though ???? Yeah, I thought so..... and don't bring up scholarships either; average joe schmo tryna get ahead in life aint in college on no scholarship; partial or (and especially) full...... all the fake hoods or w/e you got up in these Community colleges, and even they gotta pay to get in.... Mind you, these are folks that treat college as nothin more than an extension of high school..... Oh, and cha-ching, let that cash register ring, the more college dropouts there are out here.....

 

Anyway, Those same professions you just listed... ask yourself how much in loans & what not these same people have to pay back after they've landed a position in their dream field.....

 

A piece of paper (degree) doesn't tell me how much more intelligent (or let me use the more common term... "educated"; which is a word I can't stand btw) one person is over another.... What it does tell me is how deep in the hole they start out, as someone being considered "entry level" material out here in the workforce...

 

I'm not big on stats, but bear in mind that there's a high percentage of folks out here getting jobs that have NOTHING to do with what they studied for in college.... Yours truly is one of em....

 

I never forget what this one dude said back when I was @ DeVry....

Their slogan used to be "Reach for the sky, DeVry".....

 

homeboy said "More like, reach for your pocket".... Couldn't have been anymore right !

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The better question is, why are colleges out to get your money.....

Hell... Public elementary school, free.... junior high, free... high school, free....

 

Colleges though ???? Yeah, I thought so.....

 

Public education is NOT free. It is paid through by taxes!

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Public education is NOT free. It is paid through by taxes!

 

Not to mention there a reason towns in Long Island, Westchester and NJ with very high incomes pay higher taxes for 'better schools.'

Plus in last few years across the country as result of recession forcing huge cuts, teachers and students/their families in few school districts have to pay for programs that used to automatic. Meaning music, art and gym/sports teams.

 

 

B35 you made a good point in the reply in statement question I asked earlier. With that said, in ideally world colleges should be cheaper. Until around 1975, ALL CITY UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK SCHOOLS i.e Hunter, Brooklyn, CCNY, even the junior colleges were free for NYC residents.

 

If costs was cut i.e paying millions of dollars at sports schools to football and basketball coaches and also overpaid faculty such as former members of Congress, etc. that would go a long way in lowering costs across the board.

 

It would nice if at least the first year going to a public community/junior college was free for residents living in that city/county.

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Public education is NOT free. It is paid through by taxes!

ehh.... yeah, and Freedom isn't free either - that's paid through by taxes too !

 

anyway...

 

 

B35 you made a good point in the reply in statement question I asked earlier. With that said, in ideally world colleges should be cheaper. Until around 1975, ALL CITY UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK SCHOOLS i.e Hunter, Brooklyn, CCNY, even the junior colleges were free for NYC residents.

 

If costs was cut i.e paying millions of dollars at sports schools to football and basketball coaches and also overpaid faculty such as former members of Congress, etc. that would go a long way in lowering costs across the board.

 

It would be nice if at least the first year going to a public community/junior college was free for residents living in that city/county.

 

Oh I agree with that.... Just as I'm adamant about collegiate sports players being undeserving of a fee/"stipend", I also feel the same way about college coaches and the addt'l monies they receive from coaching.... You wanna get paid for coaching? try & go pro... try coaching in some other little 2nd rate league of something, like the AFL or the LFL (that atrocity).... hell, or go to some overseas league, they got tons of em....

 

It's a double standard.... it's made out to be so reprehensible if a collegiate player obtains as much as one rusty red cent, but yet these coaches make millions off these kids... being exploited like nobody's business....

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Oh I agree with that.... Just as I'm adamant about collegiate sports players being undeserving of a fee/"stipend", I also feel the same way about college coaches and the addt'l monies they receive from coaching.... You wanna get paid for coaching? try & go pro... try coaching in some other little 2nd rate league of something, like the AFL or the LFL (that atrocity).... hell, or go to some overseas league, they got tons of em....

 

It's a double standard.... it's made out to be so reprehensible if a collegiate player obtains as much as one rusty red cent, but yet these coaches make millions off these kids... being exploited like nobody's business....

 

Not to get too off track away from JW's posted video on the 'biz of college' but the NFL just a few days ago signed a 10-year tv extension with Fox, CBS, ESPN and NBC for $25 Billion. Man that about $2 Billion a year before they play a game. The NFL Owners should pony up for a "Junior" aka 20-team MINORS. Talking about the rich staying rich, the owners pay little to nothing to these colleges other than a few thousands a year for scouts to tour the country. In other words, top level NCAA Football has been a psedo minor leagues since at least the 1960's i.e Alabama, Miami, USC, Oklahoma, Neb., etc.

 

At least in Basketball, High School Grads who are phonems i.e Lebron, Kobe, Garnett, etc. can go to Europe as an alternative to develop for the NBA if they don't want to go to college.

 

Ditto for the NBA Owners creating a full scale "Juniors" as well. Sorry the NBA "D" league does not have many 18-19 year old on their teams.

There a reason corruption in NCAA Baseball and Hockey is very low. Those sports have a minors.:eek:

 

And I agree B35 the college kids going to the power schools/leagues in NCAA Football or basketball should be paid. The excuse is that the colleges then would have to 'pay' all student players including the ladies. If that the case then screw it and pay all of them. ESPN/ABC and CBS is paying around $1 Billion a year to telecast College Football and hoops, i am sure they can pay everyone from the Heisman winner to the star player on the ladies volleyball team. What a copout.:mad:

 

Also on the overpaid list at colleges is the University Presidents. It's laughable that a few school Presidents, Chairpersons or w/e title they

have make CEO monies of as much as $2-$3 Million bucks a year or even in few cases more.:mad:

I don't have a problem the school heads making 6-figure salaries. However 6-figures (i.e $500,000)is what the highest the college bosses should be making in which many of them never teach and are "Political appointments' at many public schools.

 

I will try to in next day or so look at JW video but if you cut the 'fat' i.e overpaid salaries at many of these colleges, that would help alot IMO in reducing the tution at these schools.:(

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Yes, even "not-for-profit" colleges charge ridiculous tuitions, especially those "colleges" that advertise on tv and are for profit. THose actually drain a ton of federal financial aid money from the government. Obama is cracking down on them, which is one of the few things I think he is doing right.

 

Regardless, you cannot realistically get a stable, well-paying job without a college degree these days. Yes, if you get into transit, for example, or the CDL career, you do not need a college degree. But we all know how long the waiting lists are to get into the MTA, and how few people actually get those jobs from the OC tests.

 

With proper oversight and more transparency in how funds are spent, the cost of attending college should go down, at least somewhat. While CUNY's used to be free, that model is just not sustainable in the modern world where you need high tech laboratories and researchers in order to be taken seriously in the world of academia. Tuition will never go away, but it does need to go down.

 

Don't overlook the value of learning on a high level and studying ancient texts and ideas, as well as modern authorship. The social value of college is also important. College is an important experience, if you can get it.

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Yes, even "not-for-profit" colleges charge ridiculous tuitions, especially those "colleges" that advertise on tv and are for profit. THose actually drain a ton of federal financial aid money from the government. Obama is cracking down on them, which is one of the few things I think he is doing right.

 

Regardless, you cannot realistically get a stable, well-paying job without a college degree these days. Yes, if you get into transit, for example, or the CDL career, you do not need a college degree. But we all know how long the waiting lists are to get into the MTA, and how few people actually get those jobs from the OC tests.

 

With proper oversight and more transparency in how funds are spent, the cost of attending college should go down, at least somewhat. While CUNY's used to be free, that model is just not sustainable in the modern world where you need high tech laboratories and researchers in order to be taken seriously in the world of academia. Tuition will never go away, but it does need to go down.

 

Don't overlook the value of learning on a high level and studying ancient texts and ideas, as well as modern authorship. The social value of college is also important. College is an important experience, if you can get it.

 

 

Great point QM. Many jobs that people feel only require a HS Degree now require some college work such as a 2-year (Associate Degree). They include jobs such as Auto Mechanic, Plumbers, and Carpeterners for instance.

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ehh.... yeah, and Freedom isn't free either - that's paid through by taxes too !

 

Freedom is free. It's future destruction is what is being financed by tax dollars so long as the practice of lobbying and political contributions is legal.

 

As to the OP, higher education is THE next bubble. You're seeing it already. Right now they're in the pump phase. Soon it will be dump time, and many degrees will be worthless. Hence why the four year undergraduate degree is the new high school diploma, and graduate school is the new college degree. If you want to distinguish yourself in the workforce the way a postgraduate school graduate would have in the past, it's going to take an undergrad and graduate level degree, a professional certification that requires an examination, and 5 years work experience in a relevant field including two in a supervisory capacity.

 

How many people can afford all that and still get that kind of job to begin with? Not many. Which is why the well connected continue to do well in the job market and everyone else is banging their heads against the wall.

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I was forced go to a community college and personally I think it's biggest waste of time. I'm failing constantly yet I'm trying so hard, pulling all nighters, skipping hangouts, and even sleeping in the parking lot overnight so I can do work at school before class in the morning.

 

I just ended my 3rd semester and personally, I don't want to go back. I have the skills and diploma to get my dream job (Conductor for a RR) so why am I here? Oh yeah, because the gov't brainwash my parents into think this joke is good for me. I've learned very little, I've failed half my courses, and to top it I CANT GET A JOB because school work alone, takes hours. Is there a point anymore

 

And the worst part, there another round of college after this. Why is it we go to a Community college and we HAVE to go to university after. I blame the stupid reputation my college has. They refuse to let u be free after u graduate, they insist on transfering to a four year school.

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Freedom is free. It's future destruction is what is being financed by tax dollars so long as the practice of lobbying and political contributions is legal.

 

What you're replying to of mine, I said out of sarcasm.....

 

You get people that hear about something being deemed "free", then they wanna start bringing up uncle sam & taxes & aint nothin free in this world, etc etc... that's why I snidely brought up freedom......

 

The rest of this isn't directed at you, but I aint never heard of no dam public elementary, junior high, or high school that sent any parent a bill for having their kid attend it.... that was the basic point I was makin, and that much had to be known....

 

....so I'm like, to then wanna tell me after the fact that public schools are funded through taxes, is besides the point.... It doesn't shutdown the rest of what I was sayin in that post.....

 

 

I was forced go to a community college and personally I think it's biggest waste of time. I'm failing constantly yet I'm trying so hard, pulling all nighters, skipping hangouts, and even sleeping in the parking lot overnight so I can do work at school before class in the morning.

 

I just ended my 3rd semester and personally, I don't want to go back. I have the skills and diploma to get my dream job (Conductor for a RR) so why am I here? Oh yeah, because the gov't brainwash my parents into think this joke is good for me. I've learned very little, I've failed half my courses, and to top it I CANT GET A JOB because school work alone, takes hours. Is there a point anymore

 

And the worst part, there another round of college after this. Why is it we go to a Community college and we HAVE to go to university after. I blame the stupid reputation my college has. They refuse to let u be free after u graduate, they insist on transfering to a four year school.

 

What I don't like is that these institutes & universities (now, more so than ever) lure would be students in, by tellin them their graduation rates & their job placement rates.... What was oblivious to me at the time, is how they come to derive by the job placement rates....

 

Long story short... they send you this form when you graduate, and ask you to fill out where you work, what position you hold, what salary you make, & the whole nine.... They take FULL credit for the fact that you are in the workforce solely due to having attended their business (err, school) - even if you are working in a field that you did not get a degree in.....

 

almost 10 years removed, and (TCI) keeps sending me that s***, and I refuse to fill it out.... Then have the nerve to stamp the envelope as "urgent", with a threatening letter attached to the form I'm referring to above.... f*** you, y'all got enough of my money spanning over the course of two years time....

 

...and don't get me started w/ the "corporate liaison" bit... they don't have all these dam "connections" they want you to believe they do either; gassin your head up full of feel good nonsense.....

 

Go on ahead and aim for that c/r job, N-Trizzy.

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Also on the overpaid list at colleges is the University Presidents. It's laughable that a few school Presidents, Chairpersons or w/e title they have make CEO monies of as much as $2-$3 Million bucks a year or even in few cases more.

 

Another good point.....

 

How many principals out here really makin 7 figure incomes ?!!

(just off being a principal, I mean)

 

 

Great point QM. Many jobs that people feel only require a HS Degree now require some college work such as a 2-year (Associate Degree). They include jobs such as Auto Mechanic, Plumbers, and Carpeterners for instance.

See, that's that mentality some folks exude.... For people to say that blue collar jobs only require a HS degree; to me that implies that blue collar workers aren't as smart as someone w/ a college degree.... It's the reason that workers of these jobs still get looked down on society to this day.....

 

'I'm better than you because I have a degree'... eff all that.... I see it as a shaming tactic, and nothin more.... I never bought into the whole white collar > blue collar mentality..... But that's how the world is.

 

Bear in mind though, that people are still getting these jobs without college degrees.... Short story:

 

One of my former best friends (that part is a long story I wont get into) tried goin to college, but never finished.... ended up gettin married w/ 2 kids.... and up & got a plumbing job payin buku bucks.... haven't talked to the guy in years..... I wonder if he was stupid (IMO) enough to have left that job to become a goddamn party promoter like he said he wanted to....

 

I have another friend (notice, the word "former" isn't in here) that didn't even finish high school.... this guy got SEVEN kids (4 different women)... He left NYC & ended up workin construction.... Now he has his own crib out in Fairfield....

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as B35_via_church said...aim for that c/r job...

 

I am a college drop out and proud to state it...I was just 15 credits shy of graduating but when transit called I wasn't going to miss that opportunity for anything in the world. Luckily I was able to pay my student loans in full and what's crazy is that I actually make more than my mom who has a bachelors degree and holds a high stress position at a well known medical center....I'll stay doing what I love and getting paid fairly to do it.

 

--

 

as for the video...I didn't watch it but I did read an article on it recently....here is some food for thought for those of you in sky high tuition universities, colleges etc...

 

Not even filing for bankruptcy can clear a default on a student loan...you are stuck with that debt until it is paid off...do what I did and pay it in full before the loan begins to accrue interest.

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I love it when people knock that aid package Obama is trying to get through to help college graduates with their loans... people against it go, "oh it's just to help the liberal arts majors..." I had a teacher in HS who had been at the school for about five or six years and she said she was still paying her loans off from college.

 

I'm at a CC right now. On top of all the work I get hit as an Accounting major, I'm about to lose my buses (that's another story) but at the same time I'm tired of all these people with "connections" just getting free jobs just screwing around. Never mind the people who busted their asses hardbody just to get through college and graduate school only to come out with a fancy piece of paper and thousands of dollars in debt... on top of the economy still being shit. As much as I hate them, most Fortune 500 company CEOs went to school as well. I'd say good for them if they weren't so full of crap.

 

Yeah, my grades aren't so hot and I'll get some flak if I get into a four year college just because I'm a minority... then there's grad school and the CPA exam. What the world will have come to if I ever get through this doesn't look too great.

 

I've talked to people who got jobs after HS in construction and all that, but then they went back... but I can't stand some of these faculty members at the same time, just spewing non-helpful crap and never ever really teaching anything.

 

If you drop out/don't go to college at all and can get a job that can afford you a car + insurance + gas + maintenance, and a roof to live in + costs for that, I'm not stopping you. As for the people who think they'll "crack under the pressure..."

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as B35_via_church said...aim for that c/r job...

 

I am a college drop out and proud to state it...I was just 15 credits shy of graduating but when transit called I wasn't going to miss that opportunity for anything in the world. Luckily I was able to pay my student loans in full and what's crazy is that I actually make more than my mom who has a bachelors degree and holds a high stress position at a well known medical center....I'll stay doing what I love and getting paid fairly to do it.

 

--

 

as for the video...I didn't watch it but I did read an article on it recently....here is some food for thought for those of you in sky high tuition universities, colleges etc...

 

Not even filing for bankruptcy can clear a default on a student loan...you are stuck with that debt until it is paid off...do what I did and pay it in full before the loan begins to accrue interest.

 

Actually not to get off topic but to clarify. There is only 1-2 legal way out of the debt from college/business school student loans whether all of your debts can be waived. That is if you heaven forbid get a 'terminal illness' i.e cancer, aids, etc. The other option is that the borrower (former student) isunable to work due to a major and permamnet injuries i.e you in a wheelchair for rest of life from an auto accident, etc. That it.

 

A medical doctor must verify and the feds/insurance will check constanly for proof or else you pay a heavy fine or even jail time for lying.

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Unless your going to be a doctor , lawyer , a professional like that then your better off learning a trade dont waste your time with college.

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I don't think it's a scam, I know alot of people who have gone to college and have graduated will very little or no debt. I am almost done with college, but I might stop in January because of a pending job offer, but even if I stay in school, I won't owe anyone a cent. Most of the people I know who have recently graduated, have jobs in the feild they went to school for like education, business, and egninering. All of those feilds need a college education, so no, college is not a scam. It's only a "scam" if you go to college for no reason and then you have no one to blame but you self.

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It's only a "scam" if you go to college for no reason and then you have no one to blame but you self.

If you do anything for no reason, it doesn't make it a scam.... it makes it a waste of time, at the very least - Which then is why you'd have no one to blame but ya'self....

 

It's no different than cats out here attending some college for the sake of tryna pull women on some BMOC BS.... or attending some college for the sole purpose of wanting to be part of a paid friendship circle (a.k.a frat's & sororities).... The whole wanting to experience college life bit, outside of gettin ya education on.....

 

i.e. Girls Gone Wild.... wooooooooo !

(lmao.... why do those chicks always yell when they expose their baby feeders anyway)

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Yeah... I don't intend on burying myself deep in debt either... Much of my experiences with graphic design come from self-teaching and learning... I do go to a community college for graphic arts, so it's all good.

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If you do anything for no reason, it doesn't make it a scam.... it makes it a waste of time, at the very least - Which then is why you'd have no one to blame but ya'self....

 

It's no different than cats out here attending some college for the sake of tryna pull women on some BMOC BS.... or attending some college for the sole purpose of wanting to be part of a paid friendship circle (a.k.a frat's & sororities).... The whole wanting to experience college life bit, outside of gettin ya education on.....

 

i.e. Girls Gone Wild.... wooooooooo !

(lmao.... why do those chicks always yell when they expose their baby feeders anyway)

 

By that I meant going to college because it's what everyone else does or "should do" after high school. That's the only part that's a scam. Like I said, certain professions need a college education. Is that still a scam?

 

Also, that whole "college life" thing isn't that bad. Depending on what you do, you can learn alot of life lessons like what the drunk tank is like, how it feels to ride in the back of an ambulance, and so on. There are also lots of positive things you can learn in college out side of the class room too.

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By that I meant going to college because it's what everyone else does or "should do" after high school. That's the only part that's a scam. Like I said, certain professions need a college education. Is that still a scam?

 

Also, that whole "college life" thing isn't that bad. Depending on what you do, you can learn alot of life lessons like what the drunk tank is like, how it feels to ride in the back of an ambulance, and so on. There are also lots of positive things you can learn in college out side of the class room too.

I'm not implicating the whole college life thing is "that bad"... I'm referring to, the people that go to college for the sole purpose of wanting to experience the college life outside of taking any studies seriously.... Attending college just for that is the thing that's a waste of time, regardless of what lots of positive things that can be learned..... and if you don't believe there are folks out here that don't take college as seriously as they should when it comes to education, then I don't know what else to tell you....

 

....and to answer your snide ass question, No....

The educational part of college isn't the part I deem that's a scam... it's the monetary aspect of it.

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I'm not implicating the whole college life thing is "that bad"... I'm referring to, the people that go to college for the sole purpose of wanting to experience it outside of taking any studies seriously.... That's the thing that's a waste of time, regardless of what lots of positive things that can be learned..... and if you don't believe that don't take college as seriously as they should, then I don't know what else to tell you....

 

....and to answer your snide ass question, No....

The educational part of college isn't the part I deem that's a scam... it's the monetary aspect of it.

 

 

Well said. Which I agree 1000% with (B35). Back when I going to undergrad at Kingsborough, Univ of Buffalo for a semster and graduating from SUNY Oneonta, I did know of at least a few students who did not want to be there. Thus those kids (young adults)were in school only for 1)Extended High school to go get wasted and drunk at parties 2)Semi hook-ups for dates/long terms romances for guys and 'chicks' 3)To keep Mommy and Daddy paying for school and also if they(the students) luck their first car as well 'happy.'

 

 

If anything it's in Grad school/PHD programs where almost all of the students are 'serious' with the work and are in those schools to be serious and get their degrees. So in right situation college and grad school/beyond can be rewarding.

 

 

Again I also agree with the whole college/business school setup is a scam.

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....and to answer your snide ass question,

 

My "snide ass" question, talk about the pot and the kettle....

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