If you could, would you have fixed the (9)?

[Shortline Bus]

Just a note, until the mid-1950's - trains from 242nd Street ran express along the Broadway line as well as the trains from the Bronx, to either Flatbush Avenue or New Lots Avenue. Trains from 137th Street, and from 145th Street-Lenox Terminal ran local both to South Ferry.

 

Basically that meant that at the north of the 96th Street station, trains were crossing over from the local tracks to the express tracks, at the same time trains were crossing over from the express tracks to the local tracks, while at the same time there were "through" trains that did not cross over any tracks. Meaning that the 96th Street station was a mad-house with trains switching from track to track in both directions all day, night, weekend, evening long.

 

That is why the current #1, #2 and #3 lines were created - to completely eliminate the switching and traffic tie-ups that used to occur at 96th Street for several decades. They tried playing with the schedules, the signals, etc. but no amount of effort could get rid of the fact that the switching of trains from track to track was the cause of the tie-ups. When the TA finally put an end to the nonsense the traffic and speed on the IRT-Broadway-Seventh AVenue line increased. Folks from upper Broadway just have to get used to the idea that they have to get up and transfer to the express at 96th Street.

 

So when folks here ask if the #9 could be express south of 96th Street, they are showing that they never learned the lessons of NYC transit history.

 

Mike

 

 

Well said as usual Mike.:tup:

[rr4567]

Just a note, until the mid-1950's - trains from 242nd Street ran express along the Broadway line as well as the trains from the Bronx, to either Flatbush Avenue or New Lots Avenue. Trains from 137th Street, and from 145th Street-Lenox Terminal ran local both to South Ferry.

 

Basically that meant that at the north of the 96th Street station, trains were crossing over from the local tracks to the express tracks, at the same time trains were crossing over from the express tracks to the local tracks, while at the same time there were "through" trains that did not cross over any tracks. Meaning that the 96th Street station was a mad-house with trains switching from track to track in both directions all day, night, weekend, evening long.

 

That is why the current #1, #2 and #3 lines were created - to completely eliminate the switching and traffic tie-ups that used to occur at 96th Street for several decades. They tried playing with the schedules, the signals, etc. but no amount of effort could get rid of the fact that the switching of trains from track to track was the cause of the tie-ups. When the TA finally put an end to the nonsense the traffic and speed on the IRT-Broadway-Seventh AVenue line increased. Folks from upper Broadway just have to get used to the idea that they have to get up and transfer to the express at 96th Street.

 

So when folks here ask if the #9 could be express south of 96th Street, they are showing that they never learned the lessons of NYC transit history.

 

Mike

Well then, you have to tell me which book goes that in-depth.

[mark1447]

I think he meant something like this:

Current

 

Change

 

I haven't been anywhere above the 96 Street station on the 7 Avenue line, so I don't know how accurate the track map is, but there appears to be ample length of track for such a switch from 97 Street to 102 Street.

 

The first photo is correct. After the junction between the local and the express, the starts going down and the does up.

 

From a previous message: "Besides, if 125th was made as a Local/Express Stop, CCNY can easily add its own bus <> college buses there and connect them, just like they do at 137th in the IRT and 145th on the IND."

 

As a former student at CCNY, all that I have to say is that the person who wrote the above message simply has NO CLUE about the geography of the City College area. The 125th Street station on the #1 line just simply very far away from the CCNY campus so as to be "out of the picture". Enough said. It is completely unlike the IND's stations at 145th Street, or 135th Street, or the northern exist at the 125th Street - which all are in decent enough walking distance to/from the CCNY campus. When I attended CCNY I used all of those stations.

 

----------------

 

On a second note - I would have kept the #9. Not as a skip-stop express or for express runs, but as a supplemental service. Where #1 trains run the full length of the line from end to end. That is what-ever run is not the full length of the route would be a #9. I would have some #9 trains run from 137th Street to South Ferry - making all stops. I would have some #9 trains as put-in's from 215th Street, or Dyckman Street, making all stops. I'd use the #9 designation as a way to be "creative".

 

That's just my thoughts.

Mike

 

I wrote that and I have a clue on how it is, as I'm always in that area sir, for years. (At least thru my yrs)

 

CCNY isn't that far. I'm pretty sure driving from 125th to the Campus area would just take 10min or less.... I've even walked and its not bad. Unless people hate the hill north of 125th, then yeah, 137th is best to go, but 125th isn't bad for driving.

 

NYU has its own bus service, 1 route starting at 23rd Street/3rd Ave and going down the NYU areas as well. Wouldn't it match or be similar to CCNY CCNY?

[Cait Sith]

They need to do something though above 96th street. Those folks need express train service. A real long & tedious ride going further north that's for sure.

 

Well, not too far off is Central Park West's (A)/(:(/©/(D), which parallels with the to a certain degree.

[Art Vandelay]

The folks on the 1 train need Express service about as much as they need the ebola virus. It does people no good for the trains to SKIP ALL THE STOPS WHERE PEOPLE GET ON THE TRAIN.

[B35 via Church]

To answer the question, I wouldn't have bothered fixing the 9..... and in sayin that, I'ma have to agree with the above poster's point too....

 

 

For all the people who think the 9 should/could be revived as some form of express or whatever....

I'd like to know... North of 96th, what stations would be "express" worthy?

[Roadcruiser1]

To answer the question, I wouldn't have bothered fixing the 9..... and in sayin that, I'ma have to agree with the above poster's point too....

 

 

For all the people who think the 9 should/could be revived as some form of express or whatever....

I'd like to know... North of 96th, what stations would be "express" worthy?

 

Please just ignore them. There is a reason why express tracks aren't always used.

 

Look like the former poster have said, and I have had said over a million-billion times just because there are express tracks there isn't always a need for express service. If the failed what makes you think they want express service. Exactly why it would be just as stupid to bring back the , and it would be stupid to bring an express similar to the old express pattern, and it would also be stupid to bring express service to the West End Line, and the Astoria Line which also failed when they experimented with the . Just because the tracks are there doesn't mean they would need to be used. You foamers are like "Look there are empty tracks so use them", but none of you think if there is a need for it. Think of the stock market concept people. Supply and demand which you learn in basic economics.

[checkmatechamp13]

Speaking of which, I think the same thing about the Z. I think the Z should be eliminated. Unless there is something good about the Z that the online schedule does not tell me, the Z does not seem to serve any purpose and is as redundant as the 9 was. On the one hand the skip-stop portion is longer on the J/Z than it was on the 1/9 and the J/Z serve areas that are much further from Manhattan, but still the Z only saves about one minute over the J according to the schedule, so it seems useless. Also maybe loading guidelines play a part and the skip-stop is needed since trains move so slowly on the BMT Jamaica line. But that seems kinda far out.

 

 

The also skips stops. That's why the only saves a minute. Compare the train that leaves Jamaica at 07:07 to the one that leaves at 07:15, and you'll see that the actual time saved over the local service is 6-7 minutes (6 minutes for the and 7 minutes for the )

 

The isn't in the same predicament as the . The areas the serves are less dense (they're still very dense, but not as dense as those along the and the skip-stop length is longer. You save 6-7 minutes rather than 2-3 minutes like on the (1)/(9)

 

I would have probably liked to see the 9 operate express north of 96th Street to 157th Street, and express north of Dyckman Street to the last stop during peak directions. In the evenings, some of the 9 put ins could enter service at 96th Street and run express to South Ferry, and then run normal to 96th Street and express to 242nd Street. Just a thought.

 

If you put in express trains going southbound, you'd clog up the express tracks because the and are already very frequent.

 

By the by, the 2009 service cuts included the elimination of the Z. It wasn't considered for the 2010 cuts because it wouldn't have saved any money. It still would've run the same amount of trains which likely would have been more crowded.

 

Actually, according to my calculations, it would've saved around $30,000-$50,000 per year, but that's nothing when you consider how many people are affected. They'd do less damage per dollar saved by cutting bus routes.

 

Maybe even have the 9 run late nights to replace the 2 at the local due to it being way to long.

 

 

That would cost too much money to be justified.

 

My Idea is to have it run skip-stop north of 42-times Square.

first stop: 50 St 1

it would skip-stop all stops unless there is a transfer to something major

Like @ 59, 168, 207, and 225

 

That would never work. It would be way too confusing (think of all the tourists in Midtown) and it would be a total mess. What if somebody wanted to go from 28th Street to 66th Street? They'd have to catch a , then switch to a . It's one thing to do it where there's relatively few people making that type of trip, but it would never work in Midtown.

 

Towards the end of the 9's life, there was reportedly some test of a super express, but it apparently did not work out. Then skip stop was canned altogether.

 

 

I don't recall ever hearing of an express trial.

 

They need to do something though above 96th street. Those folks need express train service. A real long & tedious ride going further north that's for sure.

 

Actually, the isn't that slow of a local IMO. The distance between stops is fairly large, so it picks up some good speed in some sections.

 

In any case, yeah it should've been designed so express service was more feasable (a middle track that went all the way through, with express stops at 242nd Street, 225th Street, 207th Street, 181st Street, 168th Street, 137th Street, 125th Street, and 116th Street), but with the current track configuration, there's really nothing that can be done.

 

The Ls express alternative would be the A, or the J/Z Skip-stop Express. However, maybe at least 1 express track could be used on the L, with peak express service.

 

I don't think you could consider the or real alternatives because they serve different areas (the is the only one that serves Canarsie)

 

Well then, you have to tell me which book goes that in-depth.

 

I think it's on Wikipedia on the pages regarding the , , and trains. I remember reading a book in the library that mentioned it, though I forget which one.

 

Well, not too far off is Central Park West's A/B/C/D, which parallels with the 1 to a certain degree.

 

True, though the often gets caught in traffic around 59th Street.

 

Exactly why it would be just as stupid to bring back the NX, and it would be stupid to bring an express F similar to the old F express pattern.

 

The failed because it didn't stop anywhere between 59th Street and Coney Island. If it had stops at Kings Highway and New Utrecht Avenue, it would've done alright.

 

The old express pattern wasn't a failure (the northern part only failed because local stations in Park Slope only had the , and the southern part didn't fail because it's still used by trains to this day (though not in official service)

[rr4567]

You foamers are like "Look there are empty tracks so use them"

 

Is that so? So now people are foamers because they have ideas, eh? I didn't know this thread was about berating people for answering the question.

[Roadcruiser1]

There isn't room to put express tracks on the . Even though Canarsie residents seem to need it there just isn't the space to.

[Roadcruiser1]

Is that so? So now people are foamers because they have ideas, eh? I didn't know this thread was about berating people for answering the question.

 

NO. I am talking about the people that just create ideas that are all out of line (Ex: Wal...), but ideas are okay if they are feasible, and workable in practice.

[GreatOne2k]

How about transfer to/from the at 168 St for express service (and hope the elevator doesn't get stuck or delayed).

 

If only the could have been extended to Riverdale, that would end the need for the Bx20 bus to connect to the to avoid the . And the Bx20 was cut back to rush hours only....

[Roadcruiser1]

How about transfer to/from the at 168 St for express service (and hope the elevator doesn't get stuck or delayed).

 

If only the could have been extended to Riverdale, that would end the need for the Bx20 bus to connect to the to avoid the . And the Bx20 was cut back to rush hours only....

 

The is already long enough. It's the longest line the entire subway system.

[mark1447]

The is already long enough. It's the longest line the entire subway system.

 

I personally don't see a problem with just extending it a few stops. If its a problem, then just extend the as replacement or have a shuttle service run.

[VWM]

That would never work. It would be way too confusing (think of all the tourists in Midtown) and it would be a total mess. What if somebody wanted to go from 28th Street to 66th Street? They'd have to catch a , then switch to a . It's one thing to do it where there's relatively few people making that type of trip, but it would never work in Midtown.

 

 

I would make it so both the AND made ALL stops inbetween South Ferry and Times Sq-42.

They would alternate every station except transfer points to other lines.

[Roadcruiser1]

I would make it so both the AND made ALL stops between South Ferry and Times Sq-42.

They would alternate every station except transfer points to other lines.

 

You live in Long Island, and I am not trying to be mean, but have you ever once in your life used the Seventh Avenue Line, because if you haven't then you won't know anything about it. I worked up there in the summer and I frequently used the , , & during the morning, afternoon, and late night hours. The local tracks aren't as slow as they seem to be and the does a good job with a pretty good pace. The wait time of the is anywhere between 3 to 6 minutes which isn't bad, and the & shows up every 5 to 7 minutes which also isn't bad. The local stations aren't overflowing with passengers. When people need faster service they would board the & , but when people need local service they use the . This is a place where it isn't broken, and since it isn't broken it shouldn't be fixed. The Seventh Avenue Line is a line that should be right now left alone.

[Grand Concourse]

How about transfer to/from the at 168 St for express service (and hope the elevator doesn't get stuck or delayed).

 

If only the could have been extended to Riverdale, that would end the need for the Bx20 bus to connect to the to avoid the . And the Bx20 was cut back to rush hours only....

 

Tunneling under the river just to extend the 1 or so stops just to avoid transfering? Yeah, if you have several hundred millions of dollars, then feel free to fund it.... Otherwise, just transfer at 168th or have an unlimited ride card and walk to the at 207th.

[N6 Limited]

Would it help if the J made all local stops Jamaica to Crescent Street, then express to Manhattan. While the Z was the local, Crescent Street to Manhattan?

 

The northbound Z would Terminate at Crescent Street and switch ends in the center track. Manhattan bound J's will get priority. The J would stop at Crescent Street, then run express to Broadway Junction and enter on the Center track. The Z would immediately follow making all local stops.

 

In the Evenings the J gets priority. If they arrive at Broadway Junction at the same time, the J would go first and run express to Crescent Street, the Z will follow behind it.

[Urbanfortitude]

You foamers are like "Look there are empty tracks so use them", but none of you think if there is a need for it.

 

Simple question. Do you want me to take a stroll through your posting history over the last year or so and pull out examples of some of your foam? I certainly can. Step out of the glass house if you intend to throw stones.

[Grand Concourse]

At times I agree with him that the 'fantasy/foamers' have been getting out of hand, but he is usually very negative. Not everything is black and white. There are more 'diplomatic ways' to refute someone than just calling them 'foamers'. Being angry can't be all that healthy.

[CenSin]

Not everything is black and white. There are more 'diplomatic ways' to refute someone than just calling them 'foamers'.

Some people just try to fly every idea their brains can imagine, while others will object to all changes or raise old ideas.

[VWM]

You live in Long Island, and I am not trying to be mean, but have you ever once in your life used the Seventh Avenue Line, because if you haven't then you won't know anything about it. I worked up there in the summer and I frequently used the , , & during the morning, afternoon, and late night hours. The local tracks aren't as slow as they seem to be and the does a good job with a pretty good pace. The wait time of the is anywhere between 3 to 6 minutes which isn't bad, and the & shows up every 5 to 7 minutes which also isn't bad. The local stations aren't overflowing with passengers. When people need faster service they would board the & , but when people need local service they use the . This is a place where it isn't broken, and since it isn't broken it shouldn't be fixed. The Seventh Avenue Line is a line that should be right now left alone.

 

Thanks, i use to like in NYC tho the was my homeline.

[rr4567]

Some people just try to fly every idea their brains can imagine, while others will object to all changes or raise old ideas.

 

Now there's charts too? Why don't we just turn this hobby into a business. Wall Street here we come

[Roadcruiser1]

Would it help if the J made all local stops Jamaica to Crescent Street, then express to Manhattan. While the Z was the local, Crescent Street to Manhattan?

 

The northbound Z would Terminate at Crescent Street and switch ends in the center track. Manhattan bound J's will get priority. The J would stop at Crescent Street, then run express to Broadway Junction and enter on the Center track. The Z would immediately follow making all local stops.

 

In the Evenings the J gets priority. If they arrive at Broadway Junction at the same time, the J would go first and run express to Crescent Street, the Z will follow behind it.

 

No. Again if it isn't broken then don't fix it.

[N6 Limited]

No. Again if it isn't broken then don't fix it.

 

Like the V and the M? They weren't "broken" per se.