Subway service to Aqueduct may get a boost, may even get Airtrain stop

[Wallyhorse]

:insert face palm image: Only a matter of time till the "send the to Euclid" foamers takes over another thread...

I think you meant the "Send the to Lefferts" foamers.

 

This is much different from others because Genting (which operates the casino at Aqueduct) is likely willing to pay for such to happen in order to have more service to/from Aqueduct (which I've been on record as saying I would be wanting to do and willing to pay for if I ran the casino). That is the big difference this time as opposed to other times when we have discussed the idea of the going to Lefferts and the split up between Far Rockaway and Rockaway Park, eliminating the need for the between Rockaway Park and Broad Channel and the overnight between Lefferts and Euclid, actually eliminating the two-seat ride those on the Lefferts branch have in the overnights.

[Grand Concourse]

Right, meant Lefferts. But other than the summer or rush hours, the shuttle is enough service for the Rock Park branch. There is no need for full service there. Other than Mott Av/Far Rock, those stations south of Howard Beach have little use and don't require that much service.

 

If there's a need for additional trains to service Aqueduct, then have them short turn at Howard Beach. Don't shaft Lefferts riders of their 1-seat express just because of some racino. Just because the subway is close by, doesn't mean people will be flocking to the to gamble. Subway maybe safe, but I wouldn't want to ride on it if I had a significant amount of money on me. I'd rather drive or take a bus/taxi there.

[Cait Sith]

Those "send the to Lefferts" foamers can go somewhere else with that crap because I frequent the line from time to time to Lefferts Blvd and NO ONE is going to want to take the just to transfer for the express from Lefferts Blvd when they can have a one-seat ride up to the city....whichever foamers thought of that idea needs a reality check....and FAST!

[Grand Concourse]

It just falls on deaf ears... Hell, my example of the to 179th is the best analogy. Would people want the to rely on as opposed to the east of 71st? Foamers think that just because there are only 3 stops on the Lefferts branch compared to the numerous [13/14] stops on the Far Rock+Rock Park branches, the should replace the Lefferts . :Sigh: SMH.

[Wallyhorse]

Those "send the to Lefferts" foamers can go somewhere else with that crap because I frequent the line from time to time to Lefferts Blvd and NO ONE is going to want to take the just to transfer for the express from Lefferts Blvd when they can have a one-seat ride up to the city....whichever foamers thought of that idea needs a reality check....and FAST!

 

Again, what do you do if Genting is willing to pay to make it so the goes to Leffets 24/7 so they can have ALL trains serve the Casino?

 

This may be a case where the Casino, especially if they are paying for it gets what they want, save for a limited number of peak direction trains in rush hours to/from Lefferts.

 

If Genting were successful in getting that done, then what I would be looking at is this so Far Rockaway gets the majority of the service, but Rockaway Park gets service every 15-24 minutes depending on time of day:

 

Trains every 7 minutes or less: Two Far Rockaway trains for every one Rockaway Park train.

 

Trains every 8-11 minutes: Three Far Rockaway trains for every two Rockaway Park trains.

 

Trains every 12-15 minutes: Far Rockaway and Rockaway Park trains alternate.

 

Trains at more than 15 minute intervals: runs round-robin to both Rockaway Park and Far Rockaway OR the Rockaway Park does run to Euclid Avenue to supplement service from Far Rockaway-Euclid Avenue for casino patrons.

[Shortline Bus]

Again, what do you do if Genting is willing to pay to make it so the goes to Leffets 24/7 so they can have ALL trains serve the Casino?

 

This may be a case where the Casino, especially if they are paying for it gets what they want, save for a limited number of peak direction trains in rush hours to/from Lefferts.

 

If Genting were successful in getting that done, then what I would be looking at is this so Far Rockaway gets the majority of the service, but Rockaway Park gets service every 15-24 minutes depending on time of day:

 

Trains every 7 minutes or less: Two Far Rockaway trains for every one Rockaway Park train.

 

Trains every 8-11 minutes: Three Far Rockaway trains for every two Rockaway Park trains.

 

Trains every 12-15 minutes: Far Rockaway and Rockaway Park trains alternate.

 

Trains at more than 15 minute intervals: runs round-robin to both Rockaway Park and Far Rockaway OR the Rockaway Park does run to Euclid Avenue to supplement service from Far Rockaway-Euclid Avenue for casino patrons.

 

 

A compromise could keeping the current setup weekdays all day. Then on weekends send all ©'s to Lefferts and expanded (A)to Far Rock/Howard Beach. Cait relax just suggesting for maybe a year or two down the line lol. There is no need for full time 7-day Rockaway Park 'thru' service (other than a few added special round trips on summer weekends)ONLY IF THE CASINO DID AS WELL AS EMPIRE CITY/Yonkers raceway.

 

For now just keep the current set-up.

[Grand Concourse]

Um, why should cait calm down? Anyone that lives on those 3 stops (each very well used) should be angry if they were to lose their one seat ride to Manhattan.

 

You don't shaft one group to satisfy another especially if the racino gets a slight increase in service demands. If that branch needs more service then extend the shuttle from Broad channel to Euclid (like the sans round robin service), don't give me this crap about send the to Lefferts as being the "best solution". If riders have a one seat express that they want, why take it away?

 

The JFK train (not the airtrain) years ago was a mess and rightfully ended.

[Shortline Bus]

Um, why should cait calm down? Anyone that lives on those 3 stops (each very well used) should be angry if they were to lose their one seat ride to Manhattan.

 

You don't shaft one group to satisfy another especially if the racino gets a slight increase in service demands. If that branch needs more service then extend the shuttle from Broad channel to Euclid (like the sans round robin service), don't give me this crap about send the to Lefferts as being the "best solution". If riders have a one seat express that they want, why take it away?

 

The JFK train (not the airtrain) years ago was a mess and rightfully ended.

 

 

Concourse. All i said was only do the drastic changes of the proposal of extending the on weekends only to Lefferts. Providing if the new casino does well maybe in couple of years. Plus the still provides a 1-seat ride to Manhattan on weekends. Not to mention maybe giving Lefferts riders 24/7 service to Manhattan including overnights as well for 1st time in over 20 years.

 

I agree for now keeping the current full time Lefferts/Far Rock set-up.

[CenSin]

Again, what do you do if Genting is willing to pay to make it so the goes to Leffets 24/7 so they can have ALL trains serve the Casino?

There are things money can't buy.

[Grand Concourse]

Concourse. All i said was only do the drastic changes of the proposal of extending the on weekends only to Lefferts. Providing if the new casino does well maybe in couple of years. Plus the still provides a 1-seat ride to Manhattan on weekends. Not to mention maybe giving Lefferts riders 24/7 service to Manhattan including overnights as well for 1st time in over 20 years.

 

I agree for now keeping the current full time Lefferts/Far Rock set-up.

 

provides a local service that riders will just get off at Rockaway Pkwy and change for the , so it doesn't really serve them at all. To add these extra trains, it really takes away those handful of trains from the line overall. The extra (A)s to Rock Park will be partially full when a is good enough. That's why since this is to serve the racino, they'd be better off extending the and leave the alone.

[GreatOne2k]

Money can buy 24/7 express service and 24/7 service.

 

The best solution is to have the run to Lefferts late evenings and late nights only. The would run to Lefferts most of the day under my plan, though they would have longer waits outside of rush hour since the line would be split in 3.

 

The casino would still have increased service, Lefferts would still have express service, Rockaway Park would have a one seat ride to/from Manhattan for longer periods, Lefferts no longer has a late night shuttle, MTA would be getting paid for this, everyone wins.

 

 

And yes some trains can end at Howard Beach if needed, it makes more sense to combine the Rockaway and casino express together during the daytime.

[Shortline Bus]

Money can buy 24/7 express service and 24/7 service.

 

The best solution is to have the run to Lefferts late evenings and late nights only. The would run to Lefferts most of the day under my plan, though they would have longer waits outside of rush hour since the line would be split in 3.

 

The casino would still have increased service, Lefferts would still have express service, Rockaway Park would have a one seat ride to/from Manhattan for longer periods, Lefferts no longer has a late night shuttle, everyone wins.

 

 

And yes some trains can end at Howard Beach if needed, it makes more sense to combine the Rockaway and casino express together during the daytime.

 

Greatone are you proposing a Far Rock shuttle? Those riders will scream bloody murder if you took away a full time 1-seat ride to Manhattan.

 

And Concourse the Manhattan-Rockaway Park would only be expanded on summer weekends only a couple of trips a day in peak direction similar to the rush hour service but in reverse. i.e To Beach 116th 8am-10am and to Manhattan 5-7pm.

[GreatOne2k]

Greatone are you proposing a Far Rock shuttle? Those riders will scream bloody murder if you took away a full time 1-seat ride to Manhattan.

 

And Concourse the Manhattan-Rockaway Park would only be expanded on summer weekends only a couple of trips a day in peak direction similar to the rush hour service but in reverse. i.e To Beach 116th 8am-10am and to Manhattan 5-7pm.

 

No, the would be split into three lines off peak daytime hours 7 days a week. The branches would all receive the same off peak daytime service (except Summer weekends, when the daytime Rockaway returns to help the Rockaway Park branch). See my earlier posts. All branches would have daytime service to/from Manhattan. The casino gets a boost since 2/3 of service would go to the Rockaways.

[Shortline Bus]

No, the would be split into three lines off peak daytime hours 7 days a week. The branches would all receive the same off peak service (except Summer weekends, when the daytime Rockaway returns to help the Rockaway Park branch). See my earlier posts. All branches would have daytime service to/from Manhattan. The casino gets a boost since 2/3 of service would go to the Rockaways.

 

So does the Rockaway Park still run overnights? And what time does the Rockaway Park run since it becomes a full time route?

 

Personally other than the summer, service between the Rockaways and Howard Beach does not need all that service.

[GreatOne2k]

So does the Rockaway Park still run overnights? And what time does the Rockaway Park run since it becomes a full time route?

 

Personally other than the summer, service between the Rockaways and Howard Beach does not need all that service.

 

The casino and Genting funding it is the only reason that service is being increased.

 

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/513120-post42.html

[Guest lance25]

I'd say send both the and to Lefferts Blvd, but I doubt many people would use the out on the Lefferts branch. Just like Phillip (Grand Concourse) pointed out, when the ran to 179th Street in the late '80s and early '90s, it was rarely used out there and when it was, it was only as a shuttle to the next Hillside Ave/Queens Blvd express stop. With both trains stopping on the Lefferts branch, the doesn't even have the advantage the old did (that is, being the connection to the out there).

 

However, once again, we're counting all the chickens before they hatch. We don't even know if this will get approval, let alone whether it would demand so much ridership. I'd say wait and see, but you guys won't.

[checkmatechamp13]

Those "send the to Lefferts" foamers can go somewhere else with that crap because I frequent the line from time to time to Lefferts Blvd and NO ONE is going to want to take the just to transfer for the express from Lefferts Blvd when they can have a one-seat ride up to the city....whichever foamers thought of that idea needs a reality check....and FAST!

 

If you live in Richmond Hill, couldn't you just stay on the Q112 until Rockaway Blvd instead of getting off at Lefferts Blvd?

 

Um, why should cait calm down? Anyone that lives on those 3 stops (each very well used) should be angry if they were to lose their one seat ride to Manhattan.

 

 

(This also applies to Cait Sith) The does offer a 1-seat ride to Manhattan, doesn't it?

 

provides a local service that riders will just get off at Rockaway Pkwy and change for the , so it doesn't really serve them at all. To add these extra trains, it really takes away those handful of trains from the line overall. The extra (A)s to Rock Park will be partially full when a is good enough. That's why since this is to serve the racino, they'd be better off extending the and leave the alone.

 

I think you mean Rockaway Blvd.

 

In any case, I pretty much agree with Wallyhorse.

 

The reason I opposed the to Lefferts Blvd before is that, even though service on the outskirts of the line (everything east/south of Rockaway Blvd) would be increased, service on the mainline would be decreased.

 

Think about it: Extending the to Lefferts Blvd requires a few additional trainsets, which would likely just be pulled from the , thus reducing the frequency slightly. Then, because the remaining trains would all be going out to the Rockaways, which is a longer route than Lefferts Blvd, the frequency would be reduced even more (though then again, the impact could be minimized by having half the (A)s terminate at Howard Beach)

 

Actually, now that I think about it, that wouldn't be too bad. Service along the Lefferts Blvd branch actually improves because the is (generally) more frequent than that branch of the . They lose a little bit of time on the transfer penalty, but they gain time with the more frequent service along Liberty Avenue. Meanwhile, Howard Beach gets an increase in the frequency as well.

 

This could actually be cost-neutral for the MTA. Now, with Genting putting in some extra money, either the or frequencies could be improved further (or both, but I'd favor applying it to ), or they could use the extra money to extend those trains from Howard Beach to Broad Channel, and have it replace the shuttle to Rockaway Park.

 

Of course, if they extended the (A)s to Rockaway Park, it would require additional trainsets, so Genting would also have to pay money for that (or the MTA could keep some sets they were about to scrap)

 

I'd say send both the and to Lefferts Blvd, but I doubt many people would use the out on the Lefferts branch. Just like Phillip (Grand Concourse) pointed out, when the ran to 179th Street in the late '80s and early '90s, it was rarely used out there and when it was, it was only as a shuttle to the next Hillside Ave/Queens Blvd express stop. With both trains stopping on the Lefferts branch, the C doesn't even have the advantage the old R did (that is, being the connection to the A out there).

 

However, once again, we're counting all the chickens before they hatch. We don't even know if this will get approval, let alone whether it would demand so much ridership. I'd say wait and see, but you guys won't.

 

If a C comes first, they could take it to Rockaway Blvd, where they have the option of taking either the Lefferts A or Rockaway A

[Grand Concourse]

Another error by me, I'm losing it, lol.

 

But that said, I still stand by my point that those trains will just be empty because people would rather cram onto the express than to take a local all the way from the end of the line thru an entire borough to Manhattan. Why take away the express even partially?

The only way you force people to stay on the is if you have the run on the middle tracks on the el and skipping all the stops till either Grant or Euclid to allow transfer to the .

[checkmatechamp13]

Another error by me, I'm losing it, lol.

 

But that said, I still stand by my point that those trains will just be empty because people would rather cram onto the express than to take a local all the way from the end of the line thru an entire borough to Manhattan. Why take away the express even partially?

The only way you force people to stay on the is if you have the run on the middle tracks on the el and skipping all the stops till either Grant or Euclid to allow transfer to the .

 

Because taking away the direct express service allows for better service overall. In my scenario, Lefferts Blvd riders would get roughly double the amount of weekend service they currently have (so they have to transfer, but overall their trip times are reduced, unless you manage to time yourself for the to Lefferts Blvd, which is very hard), as would riders in Howard Beach.

[Cait Sith]

Again, what do you do if Genting is willing to pay to make it so the goes to Leffets 24/7 so they can have ALL trains serve the Casino?

 

This may be a case where the Casino, especially if they are paying for it gets what they want, save for a limited number of peak direction trains in rush hours to/from Lefferts.

 

Take it from someone who uses the line to go home 45% of the time, if he's willing to do it, there's going to be a HUGE uproar. You try living out around these parts before you start going political with me. And if you are going to suggest to me and folks around here to take another way around to get to the city, I advise you to COME HERE first before you think about ideas.

 

Um, why should cait calm down? Anyone that lives on those 3 stops (each very well used) should be angry if they were to lose their one seat ride to Manhattan.

 

THANK YOU! If you had folks on here suggesting for other vital express services to be replaced by locals, I'm putting money on the fact that you WILL see a lot of people going "OH HELL NO!!"

 

I'd say send both the and to Lefferts Blvd, but I doubt many people would use the out on the Lefferts branch. Just like Phillip (Grand Concourse) pointed out, when the ran to 179th Street in the late '80s and early '90s, it was rarely used out there and when it was, it was only as a shuttle to the next Hillside Ave/Queens Blvd express stop. With both trains stopping on the Lefferts branch, the doesn't even have the advantage the old did (that is, being the connection to the out there).

 

However, once again, we're counting all the chickens before they hatch. We don't even know if this will get approval, let alone whether it would demand so much ridership. I'd say wait and see, but you guys won't.

 

I'm on the "lets wait and see" boat with ya, but the whole fact that folks want the to go to Lefferts to replace service speaking stupidity over smarts! And this is coming from someone who uses the line to go home. Those who dont know the density of said areas should not speak about things they don't know about!

 

More people will use the over the because its a direct express into the city and that's a fact.

 

If you live in Richmond Hill, couldn't you just stay on the Q112 until Rockaway Blvd instead of getting off at Lefferts Blvd?

 

 

 

(This also applies to Cait Sith) The does offer a 1-seat ride to Manhattan, doesn't it?

 

Let me ask you these questions

 

#1. What makes more sense, getting a 1-seat Express train ride into the city from Lefferts or hopping on a bus just to transfer at a stop for that same train? To add onto this, the Q112 80% of the time NEVER MEETS with the train. It always has a tendency to miss the train thanks to the people along Liberty Avenue that don't know how to drive! Furthermore, they would need a ton of extra buses for the Q112 which they wont add service to and with the traffic along Liberty Avenue, it would be a disaster.

 

#2. Would YOU want a 1-seat LOCAL train into the city or an EXPRESS? Think about that.

 

The commute for line riders as a whole is already f**ked up to an oblivion, screwing with the service even more would have everyone up in arms. Ozone Park residents barely have any other means of getting around and dont even say "oh they can use the QM18" because I can tell you from experience that the line absolutely sucks.

 

I'm sorry if I went overboard and I know I'm definitely jumping the gun on this, but some folks gotta come out here to see how limited our choices are. Don't even recommend the Q10 or Q37 because those buses can barely take the crowds going to and from Kew Gardens. There have been times where buses have to bypass pickups at various stops because of the crowds on the bus

[checkmatechamp13]

Let me ask you these questions

 

#1. What makes more sense, getting a 1-seat Express train ride into the city from Lefferts or hopping on a bus just to transfer at a stop for that same train? To add onto this, the Q112 80% of the time NEVER MEETS with the train. It always has a tendency to miss the train thanks to the people along Liberty Avenue that don't know how to drive! Furthermore, they would need a ton of extra buses for the Q112 which they wont add service to and with the traffic along Liberty Avenue, it would be a disaster.

 

#2. Would YOU want a 1-seat LOCAL train into the city or an EXPRESS? Think about that.

 

The commute for line riders as a whole is already f**ked up to an oblivion, screwing with the service even more would have everyone up in arms. Ozone Park residents barely have any other means of getting around and dont even say "oh they can use the QM18" because I can tell you from experience that the line absolutely sucks.

 

I'm sorry if I went overboard and I know I'm definitely jumping the gun on this, but some folks gotta come out here to see how limited our choices are. Don't even recommend the Q10 or Q37 because those buses can barely take the crowds going to and from Kew Gardens. There have been times where buses have to bypass pickups at various stops because of the crowds on the bus

 

1) I said if you're already on the bus, you can stay on until it reaches Rockaway Blvd, rather than getting off at Lefferts Blvd, so you have more frequent train service.

 

2) But you didn't read the other part of my post. You give up a one-seat ride, but in exchange you have more frequent service for those 3 stops along Liberty Avenue.

 

On the weekends, rather than wait 20 minutes for an , you can wait 10 minutes for a , and then transfer to the at Rockaway Blvd (and it can be scheduled so the arrives a couple of minutes before the to minimize wait time), which would still run every 10 minutes (and the short-turns from Howard Beach should be relatively reliable) So overall, you guys don't come out worse than you are now.

[Cait Sith]

1) I said if you're already on the bus, you can stay on until it reaches Rockaway Blvd, rather than getting off at Lefferts Blvd, so you have more frequent train service.

 

2) But you didn't read the other part of my post. You give up a one-seat ride, but in exchange you have more frequent service for those 3 stops along Liberty Avenue.

 

On the weekends, rather than wait 20 minutes for an , you can wait 10 minutes for a , and then transfer to the at Rockaway Blvd (and it can be scheduled so the arrives a couple of minutes before the to minimize wait time), which would still run every 10 minutes (and the short-turns from Howard Beach should be relatively reliable) So overall, you guys don't come out worse than you are now.

 

#1. For one, I wasn't talking about getting off at Lefferts. What would be the point of that when the would just beat the Q112 there? Also, even if I'm already on the bus, the would always leave at Rockaway Blvd before the Q112 even gets to the station. I've done that a few times myself and I know from experience. The wait at Rockaway Blvd at times can be brutal.

 

#2. Well, lets figure this out for a moment, first and foremost the would get a hell of a lot of priority at Euclid because of the amount of (A)s that would come and go before the . Second, it would get held up tying up both services at Grant Avenue due to trains having to switch in and out constantly going to the city. And then you're going to force people to transfer at Rockaway Blvd for a or a Q112? And you call that frequent service? Folks around here including myself would call that reduced service. Those trains wont be able to handle the crowds the can barely take in the AM out of Lefferts and don't give me some statistics because you have to SEE IT to BELIEVE it!

 

And then what would happen if service is screwed up? Send the to Lefferts? Hell, you might as well KEEP service GOING to Lefferts!

 

Again, I might be jumping the gun, but I'm speaking from experience. At the rate these ideas are going, you might as well suggest closing off 104th, 111 and Lefferts Blvd Stations and replace it with extra bus service and direct all service to the Rockaways! (which won't happen)

[qjtransitmaster]

Um, why should cait calm down? Anyone that lives on those 3 stops (each very well used) should be angry if they were to lose their one seat ride to Manhattan.

 

You don't shaft one group to satisfy another especially if the racino gets a slight increase in service demands. If that branch needs more service then extend the shuttle from Broad channel to Euclid (like the sans round robin service), don't give me this crap about send the to Lefferts as being the "best solution". If riders have a one seat express that they want, why take it away?

 

The JFK train (not the airtrain) years ago was a mess and rightfully ended.

you are really overblowing this. Not that serious nights have shuttles what is the problem with sending more (A)s away from lefferts lets be honest those 3 stops PALE in comparison to the far rockaway branch in terms of ridership and importance take a chill pill OHH and you are right about rush hour if ends up there fulltime I think should stay there for rush hour and stay at Euclid for rush hr. Let off peak well slow down but scheduled in a way to time with the . Plus at rush some far rockaway or rockaway park (A)s can go express between JFK and Euclid in the peak direction to separate the crowds and maintain spacing between trains and balance loads between the branches.

[Cait Sith]

Or take Q112 to rockaway blvd you are really overblowing this. Not that serious nights have shuttles what is the problem with sending more (A)s away from lefferts lets be honest those 3 stops PALE in comparison to the far rockaway branch in terms of ridership and importance take a chill pill

 

Ahem, read my responses.....

[LRG]

If anything, there could always be rush hour service to Lefferts in both directions. Other than that I don't see the difficulty of TRANSFERRING to the at Euclid or just stay on the train for that matter. For what it's worth, all the timers they're putting on the isn't saving that much time anymore on the express stretch in Brooklyn.

 

During rush hours, (A)s can go to Lefferts and Far Rockaway in both directions, with trains to Far Rockaway operating every 7-8 minutes and trains to Lefferts Boulevard operating every 10 minutes. But outside of rush hours would there be upheaval about having no direct express service to Manhattan? I mean, it's bad enough on weekends they have to wait 20 minutes for a train, but having the serve Lefferts full-time would give riders the very least frequent midday and weekend service as well as an opportunity to catch the not-so-express at Euclid speeding up their trip somewhat than throwing 10-20 minutes away because they missed a train.