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Abba

Court SQ 7 station closed for 2 months and a half plus no (7) service between TS-QBP for 11 weekends

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That damn tunnel... :sigh: just build a new river tunnel that can accomodate modern trains [preferably B div width and length] and eventually have the (7) run B div trains ;)

 

Of course I know a river tunnel is expensive, but how much longer are they going to keep making trains accomdate the tunnel vs the tunnel accomodating the train? Those tubes are over 100 years old, they weren't meant for subways. Hell, maybe they could be used for car traffic? :shrugs:

 

The question is, where can they put new tunnels to replace the Steinway tunnels that would in the process also likely allow the (7) to be converted from IRT to BMT/IND usage? I don't see how that can be done without a severe curve into/out of Grand Central to get the tracks over to say 41st (to Queens) and 43rd Street (to Manhattan) for new tunnels.

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I wasn't being serious and to answer the what if: what about having the "new tunnels" 'wrap around' the existing ones?

Aren't the "existing ones" the tunnel in Manhattan? Wouldn't that need some serious fixing before it could accommodate B div service?

 

To be honest, and back on topic, I don't get why the MTA has to do this now instead of before, when they were actually building the transfer to the (G).

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No, what I mean is the should build the new pair of tubes either around the existing tubes (one on each side) or build them under the existing ones. Then the current ones can be abandoned from revenue use. Like a poster on subchat said about wanting to build the new tunnels around (like a layer) the existing ones and then deconstructung the current one inside - that would take way too long and I wouldn't be for that plan.

 

I do agree all those times the (7) was shut down in the past and they didn't do this at the same time? totally mismanaged imo. If the segment is shut down, why not do the project then and save ppl the hassle? IMO.*

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What might need to be considered here as written in the other thread to help with this G.O. would be to have the (Q) do a roundabout route to Manhattan since that line will be out north of Prospect Park on weekends until March. In this case, I would be looking to have the (Q) run from Prospect Park with Coney Island as a through station while then running express to Manhattan using either the West End or Sea Beach express track and from Manhattan using the other of those two lines express track, with the (Q) then running to Astoria to help out the (N) on that G.O. at Queens Plaza.

Dreaming much?

 

Those tubes are over 100 years old, they weren't meant for subways. Hell, maybe they could be used for car traffic? :shrugs:

Those tunnels barely allow IRT trains to go through. I've read that the speeds are constrained because a little more wobble would cause the trains to scrape the sides of the tunnel walls.

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Yup, which goes back to how trains have to accommodate the tunnel. 100 years is a very respectable service, but it's time to just build newer modern tunnels for subway service. I say, forget this stuipid tunnel to Jersey, build a new east river tunnel and improve the Queens bound portion of the line.

 

Are R142a's different from R62a's body frame wise? (ie: taller...)

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Yup, which goes back to how trains have to accommodate the tunnel. 100 years is a very respectable service, but it's time to just build newer modern tunnels for subway service. I say, forget this stuipid tunnel to Jersey, build a new east river tunnel and improve the Queens bound portion of the line.

 

Are R142a's different from R62a's body frame wise? (ie: taller...)

 

Very similar, see for yourself

 

datasheet-r62a.jpg

 

vs

 

datasheet-r142a.jpg

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Guest lance25

For those who don't feel like reading (by the way, shame on you), Queens Councilman Jimmy Van Bramer was offering $250,000 from the city for shuttle buses from Vernon-Jackson directly to Grand Central. The (MTA) said no citing the lack of available idling space for the buses.

 

If it was me, I'd try it for the first weekend to see how it would or wouldn't work. I mean, you have 11 weekends. What do you have to lose? If it's a total disaster with the buses, ax 'em for the rest of the shutdown and tell riders to hop on the (N) at Queensboro Plaza. No harm, no foul, right?

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On principle, I think it was wrong of the MTA to outright dismiss the idea, but otoh, spending taxpayer money to handle the extra demand of the displaced riders isn't that much of a solution either. Playing devil's advocate I can partially see the MTA's point on this, especially if this were to be applied for every shuttle segments.

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On principle, I think it was wrong of the MTA to outright dismiss the idea, but otoh, spending taxpayer money to handle the extra demand of the displaced riders isn't that much of a solution either. Playing devil's advocate I can partially see the MTA's point on this, especially if this were to be applied for every shuttle segments.

 

Also call me nuts guys(which I am lol:p)but i have another theory to why the (MTA) turned down the Councilmember's offer even if he is paying $250,000 out of his budget from taxpayer monies. If the proposed LIC-Grand Central was a huge succesful the (MTA) was fearful the community might have demanded to make it a regular and permament bus route at least on weekdays. The bus route would be around long after the (7) is upgraded with CBTC and a renonvated Steinway tunnel and hard to remove i.e X27/28 in Southern Brooklyn during the Manhattan Bridge rebuliding.

 

Just a guess. What you guys think?:confused:

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Also call me nuts guys(which I am lol:p)but i have another theory to why the (MTA) turned down the Councilmember's offer even if he is paying $250,000 out of his budget from taxpayer monies. If the proposed LIC-Grand Central was a huge succesful the (MTA) was fearful the community might have demanded to make it a regular and permament bus route at least on weekdays. The bus route would be around long after the (7) is upgraded with CBTC and a renonvated Steinway tunnel and hard to remove i.e X27/28 in Southern Brooklyn during the Manhattan Bridge rebuliding.

 

Just a guess. What you guys think?:confused:

 

Umm, don't think so. A success would have led to having the bus option on every shutdown that follows, no (7) in Manhattan after these set of weeks are complete won't be the last time as TA does their Catch Bus To Corona project, and (MTA) may have to foot the bill for buses later on in the construction That's also less flexibility for work done elsewhere around the system that requires buses, as typically buses from other depots are brought in to help out.

 

On the (2)(5) GO from 180-149-GC when they run that, I've seen buses from College Point and that depot in Greenpoint (and possibly others), it wasn't handled only by West Farms/Eastchester/Gun Hill.

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Sorry guys to *bump* an old topic. Just wondering why has the (MTA) still decided to suspend the (7) on St Patricks Day (march 17, 2012) between Queensboro and Times Sq? Looking at the (MTA) website looks like they have cancelled all other GO's for the St Patrick's weekend except for the formentioned(7) work.

 

The St Patricks's parade on 5th Ave is expected this year to reach a possible all time record attendence of close to 2 Million with nice near-record breaking temps. (around 70 degrees)Not to mention several thousands more people attending the parade since it been held on a Saturday. With that said, IMO could the (MTA) made a comproise and run full service at least all day Saturday until 11pm? And then suspend service from say Midnight Sunday(3/18)-5am (3/19)? I know this is a vital project but extra riders will be using the subways this weekend for this semi holiday. reactions?

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They want to get everything done before the baseball season. That may even be why the (Q) change has not been done the last few weekends - to get as many track workers on the (7) as possible.

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Sorry guys to *bump* an old topic. Just wondering why has the (MTA) still decided to suspend the (7) on St Patricks Day (march 17, 2012) between Queensboro and Times Sq? Looking at the (MTA) website looks like they have cancelled all other GO's for the St Patrick's weekend except for the formentioned(7) work.

 

The St Patricks's parade on 5th Ave is expected this year to reach a possible all time record attendence of close to 2 Million with nice near-record breaking temps. (around 70 degrees)Not to mention several thousands more people attending the parade since it been held on a Saturday. With that said, IMO could the (MTA) made a comproise and run full service at least all day Saturday until 11pm? And then suspend service from say Midnight Sunday(3/18)-5am (3/19)? I know this is a vital project but extra riders will be using the subways this weekend for this semi holiday. reactions?

 

Not ALL GO's are suspended. There are some minor express runs in Queens and Brooklyn, and the (C) isn't going north of 145th.

 

I think if the MTA said "12 weekends" but offered service this Saturday the politicians would immediately translate it into "3 months" and start fighting.

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Not ALL GO's are suspended. There are some minor express runs in Queens and Brooklyn, and the (C) isn't going north of 145th.

 

I think if the MTA said "12 weekends" but offered service this Saturday the politicians would immediately translate it into "3 months" and start fighting.

 

You could cancelled this go work for this St. Pats weekend and replace it for another weekend when the Mets are not playing at Citifield. With the high ridership on the Flushing line, there no weekend that would not impact riders.

 

Just a Thought.:P

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They want to get everything done before the baseball season. That may even be why the (Q) change has not been done the last few weekends - to get as many track workers on the (7) as possible.
Exactly!

 

The St. Patrick's Day Parade may be important, but (7) riders can get to Manhattan switching to the (E)/(F)/® at 74th-Roosevelt. Have the (7) G.O. continue into the start of the baseball season, and you're looking at the Mets and local politicians as well as possibly Major League Baseball using that as a crutch for lower attendance not to mention Mets fans calling WFAN and ESPN-1050 complaining they can't get to the games because the (7) is out, making for much bigger problems for the (MTA) overall. That's why St. Patrick's Day sort of gets the shaft here.

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Exactly!

 

The St. Patrick's Day Parade may be important, but (7) riders can get to Manhattan switching to the (E)/(F)/® at 74th-Roosevelt. Have the (7) G.O. continue into the start of the baseball season, and you're looking at the Mets and local politicians as well as possibly Major League Baseball using that as a crutch for lower attendance not to mention Mets fans calling WFAN and ESPN-1050 complaining they can't get to the games because the (7) is out, making for much bigger problems for the (MTA) overall. That's why St. Patrick's Day sort of gets the shaft here.

 

Why do that if you can just ether take the (N)/(Q) at Queensboro or the (E) at Court Square?

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Exactly!

 

The St. Patrick's Day Parade may be important, but (7) riders can get to Manhattan switching to the (E)/(F)/® at 74th-Roosevelt. Have the (7) G.O. continue into the start of the baseball season, and you're looking at the Mets and local politicians as well as possibly Major League Baseball using that as a crutch for lower attendance not to mention Mets fans calling WFAN and ESPN-1050 complaining they can't get to the games because the (7) is out, making for much bigger problems for the (MTA) overall. That's why St. Patrick's Day sort of gets the shaft here.

 

Wally i suggested a weekend in April or even May when the Mets are not home at Citifield. The St. Pats parade is always among the most attended parades in NYC every year. Thus I am sure other alternative routes like the (E)(F)(R)(N)(Q) and LIRR Pt Washington will be rush hour SRO all day on Saturday.

 

FYI. Other than opening day Citifield will be a ghost town most of the 2012 season until at least the Yankees series.

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Why do that if you can just ether take the (N)/(Q) at Queensboro or the (E) at Court Square?

 

Queensboro Plaza is mad house when (7)'s out.

 

Every time when I take (N)(Q) to Queensboro Plaza on weekends, you'll set mad house of people trying to catch on (7) train, overcrowded.

 

Sometimes I avoid Queensboro Plaza by using (E)(F)(R) to Roosevelt Av.

 

I know going to Manhattan on (E) at 74th St/Roosevelt Av might be crowded, (E) is express and much more comfortable than crowded (7) local all the way.

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Wally i suggested a weekend in April or even May when the Mets are not home at Citifield. The St. Pats parade is always among the most attended parades in NYC every year. Thus I am sure other alternative routes like the (E)(F)(R)(N)(Q) and LIRR Pt Washington will be rush hour SRO all day on Saturday.

 

FYI. Other than opening day Citifield will be a ghost town most of the 2012 season until at least the Yankees series.

 

The probelm is, the Mets may have told them that the work must be completed before opening day.

 

While it may make sense to have re-scheduled this weekend's work for another week, the problem then I believe is you're running into other events and it may not be as easy to get the necessary people in place for say the weekend of April 14-15. It's possible the Mets and Major League Baseball said no then just in case something say were to happen in Philly that forced their series with the Phillies that weekend to have to be shifted to CitiField with another series later in the season because of issues (not completely unprecedented since that did actually happen a number of years back with the Yankees where the Yankees had to switch dates for a series with the Tigers due to a structural issue with Yankee Stadium, plus the Yanks actually played one home game at Shea during that stretch).

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Guest lance25

The Mets don't run the trains. The (MTA) wants to get this work over before the season really gets going because they get a lot of fare revenue for the home games. Same thing with the Yankees

 

Yes, it's inconvenient that the (7) line has been truncated to Queensboro Plaza during St. Patrick's Day, but it's not as though the line is completely isolated from the rest of the system. You have the (E), (F) and (R) at 74 St/Roosevelt Av and the (N) and (Q) at Queensboro Plaza for easy service to and from Manhattan. Besides, if the agency caved in for the parade, it would probably open the floodgates for every Tom, D*ck and Harry to request (nay, demand) that service disruptions be suspended for every minor event in the city. And then they'll complain that the work takes forever to complete.

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The Mets don't run the trains. The (MTA) wants to get this work over before the season really gets going because they get a lot of fare revenue for the home games. Same thing with the Yankees

 

Yes, it's inconvenient that the (7) line has been truncated to Queensboro Plaza during St. Patrick's Day, but it's not as though the line is completely isolated from the rest of the system. You have the (E), (F) and (R) at 74 St/Roosevelt Av and the (N) and (Q) at Queensboro Plaza for easy service to and from Manhattan. Besides, if the agency caved in for the parade, it would probably open the floodgates for every Tom, D*ck and Harry to request (nay, demand) that service disruptions be suspended for every minor event in the city. And then they'll complain that the work takes forever to complete.

 

Yes, but St. Patrick's Day is a lot bigger than most other events, though your point is well taken since people do have the (E)/(F)/® option to get to the Parade route, and most have to take another train once in Manhattan anyway to get to the Parade.

 

I would think, however, most would realize the St. Patrick's Day parade in Manhattan is far bigger and a far bigger event than any of the other events (including the Belmont Stakes for which if I were at NYRA I would be requesting that any (J) work the day of the Belmont Stakes be suspended so (J) trains can operate normally and help get tourists and those who live along the route alike to get to Belmont Park that day), which is why the (MTA), unless specifically told by the Mets and/or MLB that they had to have the (7) fully up and running for all Mets home games and any possible switches of games due to unforeseeable circumstances should have in this instance "caved in" and run the (7) normal for St. Patrick's day and used the first weekend the Mets are on the road to complete work due to the fact you have far more people using the (7) to get to/from Manhattan for the parade than you would for a Saturday afternoon Mets game. At the very least, I would have some time ago installed switches past 45th Road-Court Square going towards Queens Plaza so that the (7) can go there during such a G.O. and allow people to switch to the (E) (which is the most direct route to the parade route anyway at 5th Avenue-53rd Street) as long as the work doesn't involve the stretch between Court Square and Queensboro Plaza.

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Guest lance25

Remember, the (7) line is shut down past Queensboro Plaza in part because of the Court Sq rehab project so it wouldn't make a lick of difference if there was a switch over there. Besides, there is a diamond crossover just "east" of Hunters Point Av.

 

Yeah, I get that the St. Pat's Day parade is a big deal. The point still remains that Flushing riders were not completely isolated from the rest of the subway system. They just had to leave a bit earlier to get to the parade. Inconvenient? Yeah. Impossible? Hardly.

 

And like I said before, regardless of whatever event, parade, festival, etc. is going on in the city, the (MTA) needs to get their construction projects done wherever possible before the warmer months roll in. I'd rather they do this during the winter and not the summer when the Mets are in town or during the US Open at Flushing Meadows. Besides, this particular service disruption is ending on the 2nd.

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