App That Would Guide Users Away From High-Crime Areas Proves Controversial

[error46146]

Crime can happen anywhere. Where there's people and society, there's crime. Crime can travel too; criminals have legs and a brain and can and will travel to "safe" neighborhoods. If you're scared of crime, build a brick wall encompassing your house and never leave it.

[checkmatechamp13]

Crime can happen anywhere. Where there's people and society, there's crime. Crime can travel too; criminals have legs and a brain and can and will travel to "safe" neighborhoods. If you're scared of crime, build a brick wall encompassing your house and never leave it.

 

Well, you should watch your back anywhere you go, but realistically, there are areas where you're more likely to get robbed or something than others.

 

I mean, hell, you're worse off having your life savings stolen by some guy living in a mansion than you are walking down the street getting robbed for the $20 in your pocket, but realistically, what type of crime do people worry about more?

 

By the way, VG8, does any part of Mariners' Harbor look like this?:

 

Unless you can find me an area that looks like that, I don't think it can qualify as a "third-world country"

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I stand by what I said and I am NOT looking for a friggin' picture of a third world country to compare Mariner's Harbor. I can't even believe you went looking for a picture. This is what I mean about nitpicking. Haven't you heard of figure of speech before???

[checkmatechamp13]

Tell me exactly what was so wrong with those pictures I showed you that those areas look even remotely like a third-world country. You want to say it was an exaggeration, alright, but then tell me if there's anything wrong with those pictures. I could find homes like that all over SI, in all your supposed "affluent" neighborhoods.

[yardlet6]

I usually read Lonely Planet travel guides and when they cover a city they usually tell you about the bad parts of the cities and where and when to avoid trouble. Good if you're going to South Africa.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Tell me exactly what was so wrong with those pictures I showed you that those areas look even remotely like a third-world country. You want to say it was an exaggeration, alright, but then tell me if there's anything wrong with those pictures. I could find homes like that all over SI, in all your supposed "affluent" neighborhoods.

 

 

Dude give it up already. You are seriously nuts to go and actually look for pictures of third world countries when I was using a figure of speech. You really need to get out more. I am NOT looking at photos of third world countries to compare them to Mariner's Harbor.

 

Crime can happen anywhere. Where there's people and society, there's crime. Crime can travel too; criminals have legs and a brain and can and will travel to "safe" neighborhoods. If you're scared of crime, build a brick wall encompassing your house and never leave it.

 

 

You got that right. Yesterday morning I walked over to Riverdale Avenue from the apartment to run an errand and these suspicious looking black guys (two of them, perhaps African) got out of a beat up car and were mumbling some sort of gibberish. Then they split up with one crossing the street and then the other one crossed the street where I was along W 236th street. I didn't know what was going on so I kept my eye on them and sped up to keep my distance and give myself options in case they tried something. Riverdale is generally very safe with very low crime, but occasionally we do have folks that come uphill to steal and break into cars and such.

[lilbluefoxie]

I usually read Lonely Planet travel guides and when they cover a city they usually tell you about the bad parts of the cities and where and when to avoid trouble. Good if you're going to South Africa.

 

 

I was there in 2002, and already much of it was downhill then, I cant imagine what sort of mess Joburg looks like now. I feel bad for my relatives that are still stuck there.

 

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As for this app, its NOT designed for city people with street smarts, its designed for people from rural areas and the suburbs who are unfamiliar about a city and would prefer to stay out of the 'hood.

[checkmatechamp13]

I usually read Lonely Planet travel guides and when they cover a city they usually tell you about the bad parts of the cities and where and when to avoid trouble. Good if you're going to South Africa.

 

 

Wikitravel also does this to a certain extent.

 

Dude give it up already. You are seriously nuts to go and actually look for pictures of third world countries when I was using a figure of speech. You really need to get out more. I am NOT looking at photos of third world countries to compare them to Mariner's Harbor.

 

 

First of all, you act like I spent hours searching for that video. It took me like 2 seconds to find that.

 

Second of all, you still haven't answered my question: What is so wrong with those pictures? Forget comparing it to the third-world. What is so different about those pictures that you're not going to find them in any regular neighborhood in NYC? I could look in Westerleigh and find homes like the Port Richmond image. For the Elm Park one, I could find that in practically any other neighborhood on the North Shore or Mid-Island. For the Mariners' Harbor one, maybe Westerleigh as well.

 

If you think Marners' Harbor and Port Richmond look like a dump, then Gerritsen Beach looks like a dump too. I could pull up any picture of Gerritsen Beach and you can't honestly say it looks better than the pictures I showed you.

 

As for this app, its NOT designed for city people with street smarts, its designed for people from rural areas and the suburbs who are unfamiliar about a city and would prefer to stay out of the 'hood.

 

 

Exactly. 90% of the time, you'll be fine in any area. But even then, just because you're capable of going into a certain area doesn't mean you wouldn't want to avoid it if possible.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

First of all, you act like I spent hours searching for that video. It took me like 2 seconds to find that.

 

Second of all, you still haven't answered my question: What is so wrong with those pictures? Forget comparing it to the third-world. What is so different about those pictures that you're not going to find them in any regular neighborhood in NYC? I could look in Westerleigh and find homes like the Port Richmond image. For the Elm Park one, I could find that in practically any other neighborhood on the North Shore or Mid-Island. For the Mariners' Harbor one, maybe Westerleigh as well.

 

If you think Marners' Harbor and Port Richmond look like a dump, then Gerritsen Beach looks like a dump too. I could pull up any picture of Gerritsen Beach and you can't honestly say it looks better than the pictures I showed you.

 

 

 

LOL... You just don't get it... It's called figure of speech for a reason... Only you would be foolish enough to go and look up photos of third world countries to compare them to Mariner's Harbor or Port Richmond. smh.... As for Gerritsen Beach, who said anything about Gerritsen Beach?? In any event there are two sections of Gerrtisen Beach... The old section and the newer section. Gerritsen Beach reminds of Sheepshead Bay to an extent (the older sections of Sheepshead Bay with older housing along the bay) and I used to visit friends down there and the area is just fine. No one said anything about Gerritsen Beach being fabulous or anything so I don't know why you're bringing it up for. It's a decent middle class neighborhood that is small and safe. Reminds me a bit of Marine Park just that it's near the water.

[yardlet6]

I was there in 2002, and already much of it was downhill then, I cant imagine what sort of mess Joburg looks like now. I feel bad for my relatives that are still stuck there.

 

--------------

 

As for this app, its NOT designed for city people with street smarts, its designed for people from rural areas and the suburbs who are unfamiliar about a city and would prefer to stay out of the 'hood.

 

 

There has been improvement in Joburg though. The downtown has surveilance and new construction and businesses are moving back. Hillborw and Yeoville are still no go but Ponte City is rebuilt. Jabavu in Soweto is a tourist spot.

[checkmatechamp13]

LOL... You just don't get it... It's called figure of speech for a reason... Only you would be foolish enough to go and look up photos of third world countries to compare them to Mariner's Harbor or Port Richmond. smh.... As for Gerritsen Beach, who said anything about Gerritsen Beach?? In any event there are two sections of Gerrtisen Beach... The old section and the newer section. Gerritsen Beach reminds of Sheepshead Bay to an extent (the older sections of Sheepshead Bay with older housing along the bay) and I used to visit friends down there and the area is just fine. No one said anything about Gerritsen Beach being fabulous or anything so I don't know why you're bringing it up for. It's a decent middle class neighborhood that is small and safe. Reminds me a bit of Marine Park just that it's near the water.

 

 

Because you keep on saying "Oh, they look like a dump". And I'm saying I could easily think of sections of Gerritsen Beach that look worse than that, especially the older section with all the small, old homes. But even in the newer section, I don't see what makes it that much better-looking than Port Richmond and Mariners' Harbor.

 

And the reason I brought it up was because I knew you were familiar with it and like I said, the housing structure doesn't look any better than in the areas we're discussing (even B35 said he considered it "run-down", and also parts of Howard Beach)

 

My point was that those areas are far from a "dump", because if you want to include that, you have to include a bunch of other areas as dumps that are generally considered decent areas.

 

As for the video, you act like I spent hours searching for it. I happened to see it and thought it would apply here. Big deal. So I wasted the 2 seconds it took to post it.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Because you keep on saying "Oh, they look like a dump". And I'm saying I could easily think of sections of Gerritsen Beach that look worse than that, especially the older section with all the small, old homes. But even in the newer section, I don't see what makes it that much better-looking than Port Richmond and Mariners' Harbor.

 

And the reason I brought it up was because I knew you were familiar with it and like I said, the housing structure doesn't look any better than in the areas we're discussing (even B35 said he considered it "run-down", and also parts of Howard Beach)

 

My point was that those areas are far from a "dump", because if you want to include that, you have to include a bunch of other areas as dumps that are generally considered decent areas.

 

As for the video, you act like I spent hours searching for it. I happened to see it and thought it would apply here. Big deal. So I wasted the 2 seconds it took to post it.

 

 

No I don't have to consider anything. There is a difference between a dump and an old neighborhood. Mariner's Harbor is just run down, dirty and filled with crime (by Staten Island standards). Gerritsen Beach may be old, but it wasn't originally built to be a neighborhood, but rather a get away. The neighborhood is small, so the small houses make sense. Aside from that it is by the water so those houses tend to take on more wear and tear anyway so it's understandable, but the area is just fine IMO. It's a quiet, hard working middle class neighborhood. In comparison to Mariner's Harbor or Port Richmond, it is VERY CLEAN, and has VERY LOW crime rates, and no pockets with projects and such creating riff raff, so like I said Gerritsen Beach is a small quaint little neighborhood where most folks know each other and look out for each other.

[checkmatechamp13]

No I don't have to consider anything. There is a difference between a dump and an old neighborhood. Mariner's Harbor is just run down, dirty and filled with crime (by Staten Island standards). Gerritsen Beach may be old, but it wasn't originally built to be a neighborhood, but rather a get away. The neighborhood is small, so the small houses make sense. Aside from that it is by the water so those houses tend to take on more wear and tear anyway so it's understandable, but the area is just fine IMO. It's a quiet, hard working middle class neighborhood. In comparison to Mariner's Harbor or Port Richmond, it is VERY CLEAN, and has VERY LOW crime rates, and no pockets with projects and such creating riff raff, so like I said Gerritsen Beach is a small quaint little neighborhood where most folks know each other and look out for each other.

 

 

Do those houses look dirty to you? And how is it that I've walked down those streets plenty of times and haven't felt threatened at all? If there's crime, it sure doesn't happen in the parts that I showed you (because I've walked there after dark without any problems either).

 

Saying that Mariners' Harbor and Port Richmond are all bad because of a couple of sections creating "riff-raff" is like saying all of Brighton Beach is bad because of the area between Neptune and Brighton Beach Avenue, or all of Sheepshead Bay is bad because of the projects (which actually aren't too far from Gerittsen Beach now that you mention it). Aside from that, projects don't automatically make the area bad. You do realize there are projects behind Lincoln Center, and some in Chelsea, and even some a couple of blocks from City Hall, right?

 

By the way, that Simpsons episode mentioned earlier in the thread is over here:

http://www.watchthesimpsonsonlinestreaming.com/2010/07/simpsons-20x11-how-test-was-won-episode.html

 

I remember this episode very well, but I don't remember anything about being after streets named after MLK and Cesar Chavez. (I didn't watch it online, so I can't tell anyone where to fast forward to)

 

There seems to be a problem with the video, but the episode is "How the Test Was Won", in case anybody wants to look it up on a specific site.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

LOL... Yeah and the folks over in the Sheepshead Bay projects know not to step foot in Gerritsen Beach. You don't go to Gerritsen Beach unless you know someone there or live there. It's a very close knit community much like Riverdale. The ones that did go there got the crap beaten out of 'em for trying to steal bikes and such so yeah that's why Gerritsen Beach stays nice. No riff raff allowed. As for Sheepshead Bay's projects... Please... Those folks have their own problems and they generally keep their crime and such over in the projects probably because the police would clamp down if they didn't. In Riverdale I see cops patrolling about here and there to keep the riff raff out from downstairs in Kingsbridge and other parts of the Bronx. In fact I see more cops patrolling here in Riverdale than I did on Staten Island in West Brighton. Of course both areas have very low crime (and no, those projects aren't part of what I consider to be West Brighton either ). A lot of the areas with projects that you mention are kept under control and confined so that's a poor argument. The ones in Arlington the cops don't care about since they stay over there and don't come into more affluent parts of the island.

[checkmatechamp13]

LOL... Yeah and the folks over in the Sheepshead Bay projects know not to step foot in Gerritsen Beach. You don't go to Gerritsen Beach unless you know someone there or live there. It's a very close knit community much like Riverdale. The ones that did go there got the crap beaten out of 'em for trying to steal bikes and such so yeah that's why Gerritsen Beach stays nice. No riff raff allowed. As for Sheepshead Bay's projects... Please... Those folks have their own problems and they generally keep their crime and such over in the projects probably because the police would clamp down if they didn't. In Riverdale I see cops patrolling about here and there to keep the riff raff out from downstairs in Kingsbridge and other parts of the Bronx. In fact I see more cops patrolling here in Riverdale than I did on Staten Island in West Brighton. Of course both areas have very low crime (and no, those projects aren't part of what I consider to be West Brighton either ). A lot of the areas with projects that you mention are kept under control and confined so that's a poor argument. The ones in Arlington the cops don't care about since they stay over there and don't come into more affluent parts of the island.

 

 

Geez. Everybody living in a housing project is automatically a criminal. It can't just be a decent housing project because the people living there are decent. You said you've waited by the Todt Hill Houses before. Do you honestly think that police prescence was the only reason why you were safe?

 

And do you think I give a damn what you call that area by the West Brighton Houses? You don't want to accept the fact that you technically have projects in your old neighborhood, that's your problem.

 

As for Arlington, there are patrol cars there, so I don't know what you're talking about. And what makes you think you know so much about the crime in the area? Because most of the crime I hear about is either north of the tracks or by the projects. It doesn't affect the other parts of the neighborhood. If I stood at say, Maple Parkway and Continental Place, I wouldn't get any feeling that there were projects further down.

 

And you didn't answer my question: Are those houses dirty? Because those houses don't look "dumpy" to me.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Seems like this thread has run its course... Next!!

[Joe]

haha, NYCHA.

 

"These aren't projects...these are complete!"

 

Complete, they are. Fully stocked. Ready to go.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

haha, NYCHA.

 

"These aren't projects...these are complete!"

 

Complete, they are. Fully stocked. Ready to go.

 

 

Haha! Yeah ready... They're ready to go and as soon as they're ready, housing prices take a nose dive. That's exactly what happened with the housing projects that were put up near West Brighton years ago. The immediate areas became crack infested and white flight occurred like the plague and that section went downhill real fast.

[checkmatechamp13]

Seems like this thread has run its course... Next!!

 

 

LOL. You just don't want to admit you have nothing to refute my points.

 

Haha! Yeah ready... They're ready to go and as soon as they're ready, housing prices take a nose dive. That's exactly what happened with the housing projects that were put up near West Brighton years ago. The immediate areas became crack infested and white flight occurred like the plague and that section went downhill real fast.

 

 

You do realize those were originally built to house people working during World War II? And I'd be willing to bet they were mostly white. It took a while before the White population started seeing any significant decline.

 

I could think of housing projects where the surrounding area is still fairly safe, and I could think of housing projects where all they did was replace a former slum, so let's not act like every single housing project suddenly caused the decline of an area.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

LOL. You just don't want to admit you have nothing to refute my points.

 

 

 

You do realize those were originally built to house people working during World War II? And I'd be willing to bet they were mostly white. It took a while before the White population started seeing any significant decline.

 

I could think of housing projects where the surrounding area is still fairly safe, and I could think of housing projects where all they did was replace a former slum, so let's not act like every single housing project suddenly caused the decline of an area.

 

 

And let's not act like projects don't cause the decline of MANY neighborhoods... It's no coincidence that Riverdale has some of the lowest rates in the city and we have no projects here... Ahem...

[checkmatechamp13]

And let's not act like projects don't cause the decline of MANY neighborhoods... It's no coincidence that Riverdale has some of the lowest rates in the city and we have no projects here... Ahem...

 

 

And what makes you think the area would suddenly turn into a hell-hole if they did put up a project? Forest Hills has one, Castleton Corners has one, Dongan Hills has one, and they're all fine.

 

By the way, you still haven't answered my question: What exactly is wrong with those homes?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

And what makes you think the area would suddenly turn into a hell-hole if they did put up a project? Forest Hills has one, Castleton Corners has one, Dongan Hills has one, and they're all fine.

 

By the way, you still haven't answered my question: What exactly is wrong with those homes?

 

 

Spare me... You can pull out a few rare examples, but the majority of areas that have housing projects are dumps. Stapleton, Park Hill, and parts of the North Shore near St. George are all dumpy areas by SI standards with higher crime rates, hence why the North Shore is often said to have more crime than the South Shore and is viewed as being less safe despite having some very affluent and safe neighborhoods. They also bring down communities economically, weighing down the income levels and such. Those housing projects there by West Brighton turned the neighborhood into a drug and crack infested one that took YEARS to clean up. Before then the area was nicer with middle class folks living there (mainly navy/army folks and such) and as soon as the projects came, the middle class folks left (i.e. white flight) and so went the neighborhood. While the crime rate has decreased around there, it still isn't the place folks want to move into by any standard (particularly middle class folks who could help resurrect the neighborhood). When I lived in West Brighton, the furthest north I would go was by Delafield Avenue. After that it goes down hill unless you're over by Randall Manor.

 

As for your question, big deal... You may have a block or a few decent houses here and there, but if the area overall is sh*t what difference does it make? I wouldn't want to live somewhere where I couldn't feel free to walk around. They have areas like that in Brazil where the nice areas are completely blocked off from the favelas and they have to come up with creative ways to get people back to their neighborhoods to avoid the favelas. I know all of this because I've studied the topic in detail.

 

 

Speaking of Staten Island though, when I went to get a U-Haul truck to move my stuff to Riverdale, I elected to go to the one on Forest Avenue in Graniteville because it was the closest and the least dumpiest location out of the others, and even there you had people (illegal immigrants) begging and such and asking me if I had work for them. I never felt uneasy per se, but I did feel like I needed to be on guard in case something jumped off and I don't like feeling like that. If I can't walk around a neighborhood like my own in Riverdale and feel safe, then that means I don't belong there.

[checkmatechamp13]

Spare me... You can pull out a few rare examples, but the majority of areas that have housing projects are dumps. Stapleton, Park Hill, and parts of the North Shore near St. George are all dumpy areas by SI standards with higher crime rates, hence why the North Shore is often said to have more crime than the South Shore and is viewed as being less safe despite having some very affluent and safe neighborhoods. They also bring down communities economically, weighing down the income levels and such. Those housing projects there by West Brighton turned the neighborhood into a drug and crack infested one that took YEARS to clean up. Before then the area was nicer with middle class folks living there (mainly navy/army folks and such) and as soon as the projects came, the middle class folks left (i.e. white flight) and so went the neighborhood. While the crime rate has decreased around there, it still isn't the place folks want to move into by any standard (particularly middle class folks who could help resurrect the neighborhood). When I lived in West Brighton, the furthest north I would go was by Delafield Avenue. After that it goes down hill unless you're over by Randall Manor.

 

As for your question, big deal... You may have a block or a few decent houses here and there, but if the area overall is sh*t what difference does it make? I wouldn't want to live somewhere where I couldn't feel free to walk around. They have areas like that in Brazil where the nice areas are completely blocked off from the favelas and they have to come up with creative ways to get people back to their neighborhoods to avoid the favelas. I know all of this because I've studied the topic in detail. When I went to get a U-Haul, I elected to go to the one on Forest Avenue in Graniteville because it was the closest and the least dumpiest location out of the others and even there you had people (illegal immigrants) begging and such and asking me if I had work for them. I never felt uneasy per se, but I did feel like I needed to be on guard in case something jumped off and I don't like feeling like that. If I can't walk around a neighborhood like my own in Riverdale and feel safe, then that means I don't belong there.

 

 

Yeah, and they were dumps before the housing projects were built. The Lower East Side historically always had a bunch of poor immigrants living in overcrowded conditions with tenements, so they decided to replace it with something better. At the beginning of the century, you had "Five Points" behind City Hall, and that's why there are a bunch of housing projects there as well. You also had slum areas in Brownsville and other areas.

 

And obviously they bring down the income level, considering that in order to live there, you have to be low-income. That still doesn't make the area unsafe.

 

And that's my point: When they built the projects, they were housing all of those army/navy types, so no you didn't have a bunch of white flight as soon as they were built.

 

And yeah, that's more than "a few decent houses here and there". The whole southern part of the neighborhood is fine (most of the areas south of the S46 route). You can go down most blocks in that section and find houses like that. It's not "a block of decent homes here and there". I could find a whole bunch of blocks in the southern section that are just fine. It's like when most people say not to go north of Forest and you say it's north of Delafield. Well, in that case, it's still decent up until around Walker Street/Brabant Street. North of the tracks is where you'll find that there are a few good blocks mixed in.

 

And you sound like Pinepower now, with the assumption that those we're illegal immigrants. In any case, people looking for work shouldn't be your worst concern in an area.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yeah, and they were dumps before the housing projects were built. The Lower East Side historically always had a bunch of poor immigrants living in overcrowded conditions with tenements, so they decided to replace it with something better. At the beginning of the century, you had "Five Points" behind City Hall, and that's why there are a bunch of housing projects there as well. You also had slum areas in Brownsville and other areas.

 

And obviously they bring down the income level, considering that in order to live there, you have to be low-income. That still doesn't make the area unsafe.

 

And that's my point: When they built the projects, they were housing all of those army/navy types, so no you didn't have a bunch of white flight as soon as they were built.

 

And yeah, that's more than "a few decent houses here and there". The whole southern part of the neighborhood is fine (most of the areas south of the S46 route). You can go down most blocks in that section and find houses like that. It's not "a block of decent homes here and there". I could find a whole bunch of blocks in the southern section that are just fine. It's like when most people say not to go north of Forest and you say it's north of Delafield. Well, in that case, it's still decent up until around Walker Street/Brabant Street. North of the tracks is where you'll find that there are a few good blocks mixed in.

 

And you sound like Pinepower now, with the assumption that those we're illegal immigrants. In any case, people looking for work shouldn't be your worst concern in an area.

 

 

Oh please... If you're unemployed or don't earn much and uneducated looking to commit crimes may seem appealing and many projects have high crime rates not only because of education, social and economic issues, but also because you have many more of these types of people all living together, so in most cases the crime rates are higher. The projects where folks are screened better tend to be a bit more tame like those Todt Hill projects, but they were still low class though just not as violent. And as for the West Brighton situation, it was so white flight. The projects weren't built there for the navy/army types because they were already living there in houses and such. The projects were made for low-income folks. Other situations were different of course.

 

As for the illegal immigrants, oh please. Listen it doesn't take rocket science to figure out if they're illegal immigrants. They all line up at certain spots over by Port Richmond near or on Forest Avenue and everybody knows this, as it is not new. You don't see Americans doing that. Most of them are too prideful to do that.

[checkmatechamp13]

Oh please... If you're unemployed or don't earn much and uneducated looking to commit crimes may seem appealing and many projects have high crime rates not only because of education, social and economic issues, but also because you have many more of these types of people all living together, so in most cases the crime rates are higher. The projects where folks are screened better tend to be a bit more tame like those Todt Hill projects, but they were still low class though just not as violent. And as for the West Brighton situation, it was so white flight. The projects weren't built there for the navy/army types because they were already living there in houses and such. The projects were made for low-income folks. Other situations were different of course.

 

As for the illegal immigrants, oh please. Listen it doesn't take rocket science to figure out if they're illegal immigrants. They all line up at certain spots over by Port Richmond near or on Forest Avenue and everybody knows this, as it is not new. You don't see Americans doing that. Most of them are too prideful to do that.

 

Key word: May be willing to commit crimes.

 

As for West Brighton, well I can't find anything about them, but the Markham Gardens Houses across the street (which used to be a bunch of apartment buildings instead of townhouses) was originally built for defense workers. The same applied in other cities as well (though they weren't necessarily housing projects. They were often cookie-cutter homes that were built to house industrial workers)http://www.nyc.gov/html/nycha/html/news/markham_return.shtml

 

"Completed during World War II in 1943, Markham Gardens was built to serve as temporary housing for workers employed under defense contracts at nearby shipyards."

 

And how do you know if they're illegal if you don't ask for their Green Card or anything? How do you know they didn't come to the U.S legally, but they have very few skills and are forced to do manual labor?