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MTR Admiralty

Fulton Street Transit Center Discussion

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Don't see much of a similar thread on here, so I guess I would start a thread for discussing the transit center in Lower Manhattan. Some of you might have seen these following updates taking place already, but I'm just documenting them here:

 

Major Updates:

-The entrance on the southeast corner of John Street and Broadway has been closed since January 9th. The entrance formerly led to the northbound (4)(5) platforms.

-The A/C Mezzanine (west side) seems "completed" in that it is now possible to go from the (4)(5) platforms to the Queens bound (J)(Z) platform without having to use the (A)(C) platform.

-The A/C Mezzanine near the (2)(3) trains is also structurally complete and partially opened as well. However, there is a closed-off portion in the middle and I frankly cannot speculate what that is. It would make sense if it was an escalator, because there are a lot of stairs from the (A)(C) platform to the (2)(3) mezzanine at William Street. However, this segment of the mezzanine is not yet connected to the Broad Street bound BMT platform.

-Steel construction has been taking place throughout 2011 on the transit center building; glass panels will be installed this year. Crews are also working on the oculus; a prism will be installed to achieve the goal of funnelling light onto the IRT platforms under Broadway.

-The facade of the Dey Street passageway headhouse is being installed; the headhouse will most likely open before the passageway to allow access to the southbound (4)(5) platforms. I've read this somewhere, but I have forgotten the source.

-The William Street headhouse has been opened a long while ago, back in August. As for elevator access, I cannot confirm it. But I did see signs on the (2)(3) mezzanine for elevators. The elevator is located away from the transfer area.

-A new entrance has been opened for the (4)(5) platforms, effectively eliminating the entrance near Chase bank. This was accomplished in late October 2011. The transfer site for the southbound platforms, which used to be near Fulton Street, has been moved to about Dey Street.

-Rehabilitation of the (4) and (5) platforms is ongoing and gradual.

-Work at 129 Fulton Street is ongoing for the (J)(Z) elevators. I did recall Tuesday, that I've saw (thru the plywood) what seemed to be like fitting out for the elevator on the Jamaica bound platform.

 

I might head over there tomorrow, and I'll put up some pics.

 

Sources (via MTA and LowerManhattan.info):

MTA October 27th, 2011 Stakeholder Meeting

MTA July 21st, 2011 Stakeholder's Meeting

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The $$ going to the transit center is probably better off on SAS or ESA, but I really wanna see this project finished! I use Fulton St everyday, it's really coming along.

 

I hope the temporary passageway between the (4)(5) and the (A)(C) stays open once the old one re-opens, I figure it could be helpful with crowd control.

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The $$ going to the transit center is probably better off on SAS or ESA, but I really wanna see this project finished! I use Fulton St everyday, it's really coming along.

 

I hope the temporary passageway between the (4)(5) and the (A)(C) stays open once the old one re-opens, I figure it could be helpful with crowd control.

 

Mysterious almost all of that monies came from Congress with 9/11 funding to rebulid Lower Manhattan. It could not be used on anything else.

 

I do agree that other than a minor upgrade the Fulton upgrade was not needed. Even spending money on a smaller Bus terminal at or near South Ferry would have made more sense. (NJT)and other regional bus carriers from the Poconos, NJ, and even the mid hudson valley have rush hour special and really could have used somewhere to 'park' & store their buses.

Kind of a smaller version of Eligntville TC in Staten Island.

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Mysterious almost all of that monies came from Congress with 9/11 funding to rebulid Lower Manhattan. It could not be used on anything else.

 

I do agree that other than a minor upgrade the Fulton upgrade was not needed. Even spending money on a smaller Bus terminal at or near South Ferry would have made more sense. (NJT)and other regional bus carriers from the Poconos, NJ, and even the mid hudson valley have rush hour special and really could have used somewhere to 'park' & store their buses.

Kind of a smaller version of Eligntville TC in Staten Island.

Agree, Lower Manhattan desperately needs a bus terminal to house an increase influx of interstate buses - not just with the NJT. You also have the cheap Chinatown buses that are parking everywhere on the streets.

 

I don't honestly know if this would seriously revitalize Lower Manhattan, as advertised, as it has done quite a lot of damage. The businesses in the construction zone had suffered during and immediately after 9/11 and were just able to somewhat recover until this hit.

 

On the sub-surface, things do need to get done. The old mechanism for transferring was certainly outdated. But I don't see the necessity of having an oculus to light up a platform or two underground.

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I'm around Fulton Street all the time, and last I was there I was getting off the (A) and there were new stairs (that looked temporary to me but I could be wrong) that went up to the (2)(3) mezzanine. Also, the (2)(3) has had an elevator from the mezzanine to platform for as long as I can remember.

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Photos from today:

399663_1742284160878_1351921000_31761130_500440318_n.jpg

SB Platform (4)(5), notice the tilework

Platform rehab for the (4)(5) platforms

408338_1742284520887_1351921000_31761131_1672281157_n.jpg

Look at the brick wall, observe the new brick over the old

408917_1742284960898_1351921000_31761133_332734584_n.jpg

View of the stairs to the underpass, the stairs seem to be permanent

409008_1742285640915_1351921000_31761134_1590698702_n.jpg

Another view

399754_1742285880921_1351921000_31761135_749585631_n.jpg

View into the construction site, this should be where the mezzanine for the NB (4)(5) platforms are.

404622_1742286120927_1351921000_31761136_1506715228_n.jpg

Up another set of stairs in this temporary passageway

401523_1742286680941_1351921000_31761137_314375468_n.jpg

Temporary to semi-permanent transition; semi-completed A/C Mezzanine from (4)(5) to (J)(Z); stairs in the center feed into the IND.

399557_1742288280981_1351921000_31761140_563955380_n.jpg

Another view

405254_1742288480986_1351921000_31761141_1398461626_n.jpg

Elevator shed for NB J/Z platform

401108_1742289081001_1351921000_31761144_1795108912_n.jpg

A/C East Mezzanine, facing (2)(3) platforms; the shed in the center, I speculate, to contain an escalator or two

395493_1742289641015_1351921000_31761145_1703194096_n.jpg

New location of the mural

405469_1742290201029_1351921000_31761146_1701825015_n.jpg

Lots of stairs..

408654_1742290681041_1351921000_31761147_1261011351_n.jpg

Elevator to the (2)(3) - should be functional, I think. The one from the mezzanine to street is still being worked on. If you head to the new exit at 135 William, there is this white shed near fare control. That is where the elevator is to street level.

397556_1742293801119_1351921000_31761149_440526672_n.jpg

Escalator shed, I think there are two here? This one seems to be the down escalator, if it is, and would most likely be the same width as that found on the uptown IND platforms at 34th St/Herald Square.

 

That's all I have today.

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@ MTR, they are also putting an Elevator at the S/B end of fulton st on the (A)/© platform, thats why there's a big space back there and great shots, i was over there during the midnight hours, its coming along good

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Question. Are the ®/(N) platform & World Trade Center (E) going to have a free transfer to Fulton St within fare control, or is there going to be a free system transfer?

The passage between Cortlandt and WTC is said to be within fare control (meaning free transfer), I believe. But Cortlandt and the FSTC is connected by the Dey Street Passageway, which is outside fare control.

 

Honestly, I haven't heard much about the Cortlandt-WTC transfer recently. The DSP, however, is being fitted out. The tunnel itself was completed a few years ago (that's when they reopened Dey Street to public access), but a different contract has to fit it out: lighting, tiles, floor-work.

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They must have changed; because the last I had heard (years ago) was that the fare controlled transfer at WTC was dropped from the plan.

Good if they put it back. They might as well, since the stations are so close.

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The $$ going to the transit center is probably better off on SAS or ESA, but I really wanna see this project finished! I use Fulton St everyday, it's really coming along.

 

I hope the temporary passageway between the (4)(5) and the (A)(C) stays open once the old one re-opens, I figure it could be helpful with crowd control.

If only the (J) platforms weren't stacked on top of one another..

 

I wonder, had it been an IRT route, would they still have had to stack the platforms on top of each other? And is Williams st wide enough had it been a BMT line to have the trains side by side?

=

Speaking of escalators, I hate those narrow ones. Often there will be those people that just stands and holding everyone up. That's why I try to get to the escalator first so that they can't block me. Las Vegas has those spiral escalators, now those were cool. It would be nice if the station building had those since it is round or at least that was in the old design.

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I would go with this plan , forget the buses ...bridge the Regional Rail system... together...the bus system adds alot of congestion to the roads while trains take them off.

 

Downtown-Manhattan-Regional-Rail-Map.jpg

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Well they clearly bit off more than they could chew. If work after SFT was focused solely on FSTC, it would have been finished this year. If it was focused solely on SAS, it would have been fully funded by now (phase 1) and would have finished late next year. If it was focused solely on ESA, it would be finished this year as well.

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Well they clearly bit off more than they could chew. If work after SFT was focused solely on FSTC, it would have been finished this year. If it was focused solely on SAS, it would have been fully funded by now (phase 1) and would have finished late next year. If it was focused solely on ESA, it would be finished this year as well.

 

Indeed that is true , but those projects aren't on bloomies rader...

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Well they clearly bit off more than they could chew. If work after SFT was focused solely on FSTC, it would have been finished this year. If it was focused solely on SAS, it would have been fully funded by now (phase 1) and would have finished late next year. If it was focused solely on ESA, it would be finished this year as well.

 

Yup, that's the government. Money allocated for one spot can't be used for other projects and yet where does all that funding come from? Us, the taxpayers, so why don't we get a say on what projects should be approved or not?

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I got no problem with a world class transit building, we already have one in midtown that's aging, another one nearby that no one would know is there unless they know NY (whereas other cities have theirs in nice, original landmark buildings), why not have one downtown as well? What I have a problem with is this idea that capital money can't be moved around freely.

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And neither do I. This Fulton St building will seem modest compared to the $2-3 billion mess that the PA wants to build just a few blocks away. What I don't like is how the costs just keeps growing without any accountability. If this was a private firm, they'd be bankrupt right now without a safety net.

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I would go with this plan , forget the buses ...bridge the Regional Rail system... together...the bus system adds alot of congestion to the roads while trains take them off.

 

Downtown-Manhattan-Regional-Rail-Map.jpg

 

shockingly I agree with you with this those downtown buses can end at hoboken for transfers to the rail system while the buses skip the traffic by staying out of manhattan an extension of the PATH can do the trick. But those buses will still need a terminal in lower manhattan and come from areas rail DOES NOT serve. Buses and rail are all a part of transit whether you like it or not deal with it. But LIRR atlantic terminal extension won't hurt right

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And neither do I. This Fulton St building will seem modest compared to the $2-3 billion mess that the PA wants to build just a few blocks away. What I don't like is how the costs just keeps growing without any accountability. If this was a private firm, they'd be bankrupt right now without a safety net.

 

Private companies can't raid the personal bank accounts of its shareholders like TA and PANY/NJ can of theirs (the people who pay for and utilize their services without choice or competition).

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shockingly I agree with you with this those downtown buses can end at hoboken for transfers to the rail system while the buses skip the traffic by staying out of manhattan an extension of the PATH can do the trick. But those buses will still need a terminal in lower manhattan and come from areas rail DOES NOT serve. Buses and rail are all a part of transit whether you like it or not deal with it. But LIRR atlantic terminal extension won't hurt right

 

Thats not a PATH extension its a NJT Regional Rail extension which means even more buses off the roads because it would tap into the MOM region which is where most of the LoMan commuters live and for the most part currently use the bus system. The system would also connect into the LIRR creating a through railway line which is badly needed in this region. And plans call for a line to go from Grand Central - 14th Street / Union SQ - Fulton - South Ferry - Tottenville...

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Private companies can't raid the personal bank accounts of its shareholders like TA and PANY/NJ can of theirs (the people who pay for and utilize their services without choice or competition).

 

Instead of porking it all on the WTC site , the PA could replace all the SI bridges which is needed , upgrade the Port of Newark , Extend the PATH to EWR , Upgrade the Harrison Station like promised 10 years ago , and replace all the signals.... The WTC site should be a private investment not a public project...

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Hell, they could even build another airtrain over the Grand Central Pkwy from Astoria Blvd (N) to LGA airport. Nimby's will never allow the el to extend further north, so the only option is to go east on the highway. Who knows, maybe if that line gets decent enough crowds, they could run an express on the Astoria line again.

 

=

I hope you don't mean a subway line from Manhattan to SI, that would be a big waste. A 5 mi tunnel to connect 2 boroughs? It'd be cheaper to buy high speed ferries instead. As for the LIRR from Brooklyn to LM, I think it should be done, provided they don't take over a subway tunnel like the proposals suggested years ago. And if they do run past FB, then it should be a new station that is strait and can hold at least a 10 car train.

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Hell, they could even build another airtrain over the Grand Central Pkwy from Astoria Blvd (N) to LGA airport. Nimby's will never allow the el to extend further north, so the only option is to go east on the highway. Who knows, maybe if that line gets decent enough crowds, they could run an express on the Astoria line again.

 

=

I hope you don't mean a subway line from Manhattan to SI, that would be a big waste. A 5 mi tunnel to connect 2 boroughs? It'd be cheaper to buy high speed ferries instead. As for the LIRR from Brooklyn to LM, I think it should be done, provided they don't take over a subway tunnel like the proposals suggested years ago. And if they do run past FB, then it should be a new station that is strait and can hold at least a 10 car train.

 

Its Regional Rail not a Subway....High Speed Ferries are ok , but there expensive to run and use. The Regional Rail network needs to be expanded and connected like in Tokyo , Paris and many German cities....through running is badly needed.... Building a Regional Rail network to SI would mean that it could be expanded into NJ via Perth Amboy and Elizabeth to NJCL and RVL...

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Thats not a PATH extension its a NJT Regional Rail extension which means even more buses off the roads because it would tap into the MOM region which is where most of the LoMan commuters live and for the most part currently use the bus system. The system would also connect into the LIRR creating a through railway line which is badly needed in this region. And plans call for a line to go from Grand Central - 14th Street / Union SQ - Fulton - South Ferry - Tottenville...

By the time these tunnels get funded and built, we might be using some other different transport technology. Just saying.

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