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$500 for farebeaters...

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Hope this bill gets passes. This will teach people that you need to have your fare to ride the system. There also needs to be enforcement on the buses also. Not enough enforcement to combat a growing problem. This is one of the reasons why the fares go up b/c of people's inability to pay the bus/train fare.

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I agree with both posts above... Now when will the (MTA) step up to the plate and enforce the fare??? :mad::mad: The paying public can't keep affording to pay for the farebeaters and the problem will eventually culminate into something that wasn't necessary to begin with.

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Let me ask a question. Let’s say a passenger boards a bus and only has $1.75 on the metrocard. He then puts in 35 more cents for a grand total of $2.15. Now we have a cop on the bus enforcing the fare policy. Do you think that the person should get a fine or the cop should us digression? Now at the next stop you have a fare beater that you know by face and they always put in 25 cents. Does the cop give both of them a fine or only one of them a fine. Remember both did not pay the full fare and one passenger knew they were defrauding the system while the other was simply made a mistake in guessing how much they had on their metrocard.

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Guest lance25

I think it's more for people who just waltz onto the bus or hop the turnstile like they own the place and the fare doesn't apply to them. If someone actually makes an effort to pay the fare, but comes up short, maybe they should be given a bit of leeway. Of course, if it keeps happening, harsher penalties should be dealt.

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Let me ask a question. Let’s say a passenger boards a bus and only has $1.75 on the metrocard. He then puts in 35 more cents for a grand total of $2.15. Now we have a cop on the bus enforcing the fare policy. Do you think that the person should get a fine or the cop should us digression? Now at the next stop you have a fare beater that you know by face and they always put in 25 cents. Does the cop give both of them a fine or only one of them a fine. Remember both did not pay the full fare and one passenger knew they were defrauding the system while the other was simply made a mistake in guessing how much they had on their metrocard.

 

 

Yeah well too bad... The fare is $2.25, not $1.75, not $.25 cents, not "fitty" cents ($.50 cents) or any other arbitrary number... $2.25. Folks that get on and don't know how much they have with them should be fined too because they hold up the whole damn bus unnecessarily. Count your change beforehand and know how much you have on your Metrocard. :mad: I see it all the time... People are sitting there at the stop waiting for the bus and THEN they get their change out when the bus has pulled up to the stop and they sit there fumbling around w/change. Completely inexcusable.

 

For those who bring up the argument of being double charged when dipping, that's why you watch your balance after dipping. NO EXCUSES. :mad:

 

I think it's more for people who just waltz onto the bus or hop the turnstile like they own the place and the fare doesn't apply to them. If someone actually makes an effort to pay the fare, but comes up short, maybe they should be given a bit of leeway. Of course, if it keeps happening, harsher penalties should be dealt.

 

I disagree... Any other place you would be expected to pay the full amount. I mean think about it... You don't walk into a store and buy something and then "make an effort" to pay for it. You either pay the full amount or you don't get the item. Same thing should apply here. This isn't a museum where you get to "decide" how much you think you want to pay. That's the problem here. Farebeaters have become too complacent and they think they don't have to pay, as if they're doing the system a "favor" by dropping a few coins in the box. Meanwhile the only thing that's happening is the rest of us who do pay are getting hit with higher and higher fares. Imagine if all of us decided to just throw an arbitrary amount of money into the farebox... B)

 

I should try that today though... I want a double shot macchiato which is $2.60. Maybe I should just throw a few quarters on the counter and call it a day. lol

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Let me ask a question. Let’s say a passenger boards a bus and only has $1.75 on the metrocard. He then puts in 35 more cents for a grand total of $2.15. Now we have a cop on the bus enforcing the fare policy. Do you think that the person should get a fine or the cop should us digression? Now at the next stop you have a fare beater that you know by face and they always put in 25 cents. Does the cop give both of them a fine or only one of them a fine. Remember both did not pay the full fare and one passenger knew they were defrauding the system while the other was simply made a mistake in guessing how much they had on their metrocard.

 

I thought it was usually up to the driver if he/she allows the person to board even if the rider didn't have enough for the full fare?

=

If only there was a way for the buses to collect dollar bills...

 

@via: Not everyone lives near a subway station. In some cases, it's not like people uses the "I don't have enough money" as an excuse. Maybe they don't remember how much balance was left and they can pay, but they only have dollar bills rather than coins. It's those that don't even bother to try and get change that are the problem. You can't punish people for forgetting, cops should be more worried about those that don't even bother to pay at all.

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I thought it was usually up to the driver if he/she allows the person to board even if the rider didn't have enough for the full fare?

=

If only there was a way for the buses to collect dollar bills... Not everyone lives near a subway station. In some cases, it's not like people uses the "I don't have enough money" as an excuse. Maybe they don't remember how much balance was left and they can pay, but they only have dollar bills rather than coins. It's those that don't even bother to try and get change that are the problem. You can't punish people for forgetting, cops should be more worried about those that don't even bother to pay at all.

 

I think that's one reason why farebeating is such a problem on Staten Island. It can be hard to get a Metrocard because there are no subways, and the stores don't always have cards in stock or don't have the one you need. In any event, that's why I always get my Metrocards in the city to avoid that mess.

 

The problem I have with your thinking is that I find more and more people are "forgetting"... Not paying is not paying and if you have a no tolerance policy people won't be so quick to "forget" so easily and if they do well they'll just have to pay the fine. They'll remember next time I bet. B) I'm not saying I'm perfect either, no one is, but the fact of the matter is that farebeating is getting worse, not better, and you have more and more of the the "I forgot" kinds and the ones "making an effort", as opposed to those paying the full fare.

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Um sure, I agree on the need for a tougher stance, but are you going to divert attention from the real criminals or some person that forgot the 1 time out of 20 that day? So really, I say it is up to the driver, if he.she says the rider can board, then fine. If the driver says no and the person becomes irate, then call the cops on the rider and arrest the person for disorderly conduct.

 

This is not the express bus where people are staying on all the way to Manhattan, they are likely on the local buses for a few stops to get the subway. Then on the subway they'd have to refill the card because they lost the transfer from the empty card, so they still have to pay anyway. The MTA ends up getting what they would've taken and maybe a little more. So my point stands. Punish the outright offenders first, then worry about the smaller stuff later.

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Um sure, I agree on the need for a tougher stance, but are you going to divert attention from the real criminals or some person that forgot the 1 time out of 20 that day? So really, I say it is up to the driver, if he.she says the rider can board, then fine. If the driver says no and the person becomes irate, then call the cops on the rider and arrest the person for disorderly conduct.

 

This is not the express bus where people are staying on all the way to Manhattan, they are likely on the local buses for a few stops to get the subway. Then on the subway they'd have to refill the card because they lost the transfer from the empty card, so they still have to pay anyway. The MTA ends up getting what they would've taken and maybe a little more. So my point stands. Punish the outright offenders first, then worry about the smaller stuff later.

 

Oh, I'm not talking about the express bus because we don't have rampid farebeating on the express bus. Why? Because it isn't tolerated. I'm specifically talking about the local buses. I would sure as hell raise a fit if I saw folks getting on the express bus (a premium service) and not paying while I pay $200.00 plus a month for the express bus. :mad: The amount isn't important though because the fare is the fare, whether it is $2.25 or $5.50. It still adds up. That's why I saw it's all about the type of environment that is fostered. There have been times when I forgot my Metrocard at home and I had to walk back home (a good 15 minute) walk to get it because I wouldn't look for a free ride.

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Well take a ride on the local buses more often and try and see if you can tell such riders on the local buses to get exact change. It's not great, but unfortunately there are unsavory people in the city and I'd rather not get beaten savagely over insufficient fare. It's easy to say you'd want to throw people off for not paying the full fare, but good luck if that person is 6' 5" and 300 lbs. I'll leave the enforcement to the officials.

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Well take a ride on the local buses more often and try and see if you can tell such riders on the local buses to get exact change. It's not great, but unfortunately there are unsavory people in the city and I'd rather not get beaten savagely over insufficient fare. I leave the enforcement to the officials.

 

LOL... Dude, I use the local buses regularly in the city and of late I've been using the local buses on Staten Island as well now that I can track them and know if they're coming or not. I don't care about the local buses on SI since it isn't my primary source on transportation and farebeating on the local buses I take in the city isn't an issue either, but I would make a stink on the express bus. In fact I've seen farebeating on the S53 recently and on the S54 just last night when I transferred from the X10.

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Of course Manhattan won't have problems because that's where the cops are.

 

And did you feel like telling those farebeaters they should pay their fare? All I'm saying is if people don't even bother to make an attempt to take their card out and dip it in the box or try to ask people for change and just continue to walk on the bus, then those are the people that should be stopped and given a fine to. Don't target every single person because you don't like that they were short a quarter.

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Of course Manhattan won't have problems because that's where the cops are.

 

And did you feel like telling those farebeaters they should pay their fare? All I'm saying is if people don't even bother to make an attempt to take their card out and dip it in the box or try to ask people for change and just continue to walk on the bus, then those are the people that should be stopped and given a fine to. Don't target every single person because you don't like that they were short a quarter.

 

The thing is how many people are there like that??? I mean really. Let's be honest here. Most of the people I see dropping in change did not just forget a quarter. They're short by $2.00 in some cases and they have no intention of paying more than a quarter because they don't have any intention of paying the full fare. As for whether or not I would say something, I probably would if they were holding me up. I once saw a paying customer shove a farebeater (literally) off of the S48 coming from the ferry because the B/O got tired of him getting on and not paying and he put his foot down and wouldn't move until he got off, so this one guy got on him and shoved him off of the bus. Folks were actually applauding. This was years ago, but the sad part is the farebeating problem on the local buses is a broken system. If the fare was enforced on the local buses (outside of Manhattan), more folks would speak up but since it isn't what's the point? It's like trying to protect a broken neighborhood that's already gone to the dogs. LOL

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And that's my point, if they made no attempt to make up the difference, then kick them off. But the way you've been about this, it seems like you'd prefer people not ride. I mean really, what kind of ideal world do you live in where it's "exact change or get off the bus". Are you that cold that you can't understand that there are honest people that maybe forgot or were unfortunate to be sort a few cents?

 

Maybe we have it too good with the single fare system and should pay based on miles used. Then there would be more of a reason to kick people off for not having the right fare and get people to pay a higher fare if they live further away from the city.

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And that's my point, if they made no attempt to make up the difference, then kick them off. But the way you've been about this, it seems like you'd prefer people not ride. I mean really, what kind of ideal world do you live in where it's "exact change or get off the bus". Are you that cold that you can't understand that there are honest people that maybe forgot or were unfortunate to be sort a few cents?

 

Maybe we have it too good with the single fare system and should pay based on miles used. Then there would be more of a reason to kick people off for not having the right fare and get people to pay a higher fare if they live further away from the city.

 

No, I'd just prefer that people pay the fare. Nothing more, nothing less. The way you've been about this, it seems like there are people left and right forgetting how much they have on their cards, which is utter BS. It's one thing to make an honest mistake and another to use it as an excuse to farebeat. The thing is how can you tell if someone legitimately forgot or not? If you have a zero tolerance policy then you don't get into the issue of making an acceptance for one person and not for the other person. You don't deter ridership by being tough on farebeating. You make the buses safer and quicker by cutting out the needless BS about paying the fare. Faster buses can mean more folks riding and not using their car, thus less traffic and a better city all around.

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Although I like to see thing from all perspectives, I have to agree with pretty much fines for everyone that doesn't pay the full fare. Although I would have a separate lower fine for people that at least attempt to pay the fare ($300 or so). For those that don't agree think of it this way: if you got into a cab and didn't pay your fare, it could lead to serious fines and/or jail time. Why should it be any different for the bus or subway?

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I wonder if they will really raise the price to $500. A lot of people will simply not pay that amount, since it is so large, I suspect. Maybe something more like $250, which certainly still sends a message, and should be more expensive that buying the 6 weekly metrocards, or whatever that sum was that the Daily NEws came up with. People are probably more likely to pay $250 in my opinion.

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Personally, that amount makes me wanna throw up. But at the same time, people need to learn a lesson. Though as I've read through this thread, the one thing that hit me hard was the comments on people not having enough on their metro. Those people should not have to be fined at all because like some of you have said, at least they had something to pay with. I've forgotten how much I've had on a Metro and that I understand. Trust me, If I took an Xpress bus everyday, I'd damn sure keep track if I'm paying 5.50 to ride one way.

 

Now we get to Staten Island, the borough that I hate to take the bus in (not like I have a choice). I catch either the s48, s46, and s40 near the beginnings of their respective west ends. Of the three, the s40 has the most fare beaters. Within a stretch of 1/2 mile, I on average see at least 6-8 people strolling on the bus without paying the fare. The worse part is, most of them have bags of newly purchased clothing or something of the sort with them which makes me wonder how they can't pay the fare. I'm the kind of person that if I know I dont have the money or a school Metro, I wont travel. Which reminds me, Mys sis has been blabbering what to me sounds kinda stupid. She says that bus drivers are not supposed to deny people transport. Thats not true right?

 

But I still think that 500 buck fine is a disgusting number, 250 sounds more proper. TBH, I've always thought 100 was too small.

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No, $500 is probably not enough. People that knowingly don't pay deserve that punishment and more. I'm in the camp that feels if the person at least paid but was short (and still tried to ask people for change), then that should be given leniency. It's not like they just passed the driver and not even went near the box to dip the card in. Unless there were cops in every single bus, there's no way to fully enforce the rules, so you have to focus on the more serious offenders with the limited cops there are.

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Bus operators technically aren't supposed to throw passengers off but some bus operators have different mindsets. One of my bus op. friends technically doesn't care if you get on the bus without paying. Hell, he doesn't even hit the low life button on the farebox either. But if he sees someone who just bought two pairs of Jordan's at Foot Locker yet they don't have $2.25 for the bus, then he'll have a change of heart and won't let them on.

 

There are some people who really don't have the money to ride, but like someone else said, they shouldn't be riding for less than the fare, hurting those in the long run who actually do pay for their ride.

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Although I like to see thing from all perspectives, I have to agree with pretty much fines for everyone that doesn't pay the full fare. Although I would have a separate lower fine for people that at least attempt to pay the fare ($300 or so). For those that don't agree think of it this way: if you got into a cab and didn't pay your fare, it could lead to serious fines and/or jail time. Why should it be any different for the bus or subway?

 

But, as I said before, the boxes only tells you how much money you have AFTER you dipped the card in and unless there were card readers at every bus stop, the person might not know how much they have left.

 

Also, the other problem is the box doesn't accept dollar bills and digging for change is a pita. If a person was short say $2, then it'd be easier to take out 2 $1 bills rather than to go around to ask people for $2 in change. Las Vegas's buses have boxes that can not only take dollar bills, but they can distribute cards with some money or time value on them. If anything the MTA farebox machines are out of date and need to be replaced.

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The MTA should maybe invest in some kind of MVM at or near bus stops where there are no subway lines

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No need to, if there are boxes that can distribute cards, then there is no need for a MVM at every bus stop. Not to mention how vandals could destroy them or try to break into them.

=

No, I'd just prefer that people pay the fare. Nothing more, nothing less. The way you've been about this, it seems like there are people left and right forgetting how much they have on their cards, which is utter BS. It's one thing to make an honest mistake and another to use it as an excuse to farebeat. The thing is how can you tell if someone legitimately forgot or not? If you have a zero tolerance policy then you don't get into the issue of making an acceptance for one person and not for the other person. You don't deter ridership by being tough on farebeating. You make the buses safer and quicker by cutting out the needless BS about paying the fare. Faster buses can mean more folks riding and not using their car, thus less traffic and a better city all around.

Well if you feel that way, then maybe we should have a distance based fare system. Afterall how is it fair someone close by has to pay the same fare while another person lives in another borough? If you feel people have to pay for their rides, then we should all be paying more for the miles we use. That way you won't have to worry about people using "lack of fare" as an excuse.

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Personally, that amount makes me wanna throw up. But at the same time, people need to learn a lesson. Though as I've read through this thread, the one thing that hit me hard was the comments on people not having enough on their metro. Those people should not have to be fined at all because like some of you have said, at least they had something to pay with. I've forgotten how much I've had on a Metro and that I understand. Trust me, If I took an Xpress bus everyday, I'd damn sure keep track if I'm paying 5.50 to ride one way.

 

Now we get to Staten Island, the borough that I hate to take the bus in (not like I have a choice). I catch either the s48, s46, and s40 near the beginnings of their respective west ends. Of the three, the s40 has the most fare beaters. Within a stretch of 1/2 mile, I on average see at least 6-8 people strolling on the bus without paying the fare. The worse part is, most of them have bags of newly purchased clothing or something of the sort with them which makes me wonder how they can't pay the fare. I'm the kind of person that if I know I dont have the money or a school Metro, I wont travel. Which reminds me, Mys sis has been blabbering what to me sounds kinda stupid. She says that bus drivers are not supposed to deny people transport. Thats not true right?

 

But I still think that 500 buck fine is a disgusting number, 250 sounds more proper. TBH, I've always thought 100 was too small.

 

Although I like to see thing from all perspectives, I have to agree with pretty much fines for everyone that doesn't pay the full fare. Although I would have a separate lower fine for people that at least attempt to pay the fare ($300 or so). For those that don't agree think of it this way: if you got into a cab and didn't pay your fare, it could lead to serious fines and/or jail time. Why should it be any different for the bus or subway?

 

The two of you both have made a similar point, which is that people feel that they're "entitled" to a free ride. The question is where does this sense of entitlement come from? Why do they pay for everything else (most probably don't steal from stores and such), but yet they have no problem stealing free bus or subway rides?? I think the reason is that we've fostered a culture in the outer boroughs in particular in which people think it's no big deal not to pay. Meanwhile Manhattan doesn't have that problem... Why?? Because a non tolerant environment is created. On Staten Island, folks think it's okay to ride because they "made an attempt" to pay $2.25 by throwing a quarter into the farebox. I mean that's really a joke and it's shortchanging the system from monies that it needs. In sum, if we have a no tolerance stance, you will see very few people farebeating, except for the ones that are just hardcore and determined to beat the system.

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