$500 for farebeaters...

[Grand Concourse]

Well, i'm sure they can get some sort of voucher especially if the reason they got a C average was due to one class pulling down the overall grade, while otherwise the other grades would've been an A/B average. But at least the basic point about a grades incentive should be fair as opposed to either giving the cards to everyone or taking them all away.

 

Another option could be: A average = 4 rides, B = 3 rides, C = 2 rides, D = 1 ride, F = 0 rides. But not sure how often a person would need a 4th ride especially if they don't live that far from the school and whatever after school activities requires another ride.

[LTA1992]

On the student metrocard thing: I think it should be incentive based. If the kid has an A/B average = full fare, C/D = half fare, F = out of pocket. That way you reward students for doing well in school and weed out others that just uses school as an excuse to hang out with other kids or abuse the cards and play hookie elsewhere in the city. I think that's more than fair. However, I still feel the student cards should be more a DOE issue than put all the burden on the MTA. The DOE and/or the City should be paying for them, not just the MTA [seems like way over 50% last i looked].

 

Then by that logic I'd get a half fare, which would be impossible since I travel to Bk for school. And before someone says it, there is no school in SI that has YABC. I'm not a bad student, It's just the math that brings down my average. But by that logic, no metrocard or not enough rides for me.

[East New York]

 

What evaluation are you referring to?

 

As far as "strict enforcement" goes, you've mentioned times when you were running late for work and forgot your monthly MetroCard. Keep in mind that you'd be hit with the fine as well. Also keep in mind that there are times when there are legitimate problems (a transfer really doesn't work, or it took off a partial fare instead of taking off a transfer).

 

I don't agree with any policy of zero-tolerance (with regards to anything) because there are many situations where the person isn't harming anybody, but the book says that they are doing something wrong and they should get the full punishment.

 

An evaluation that my team is doing on the state of the MTA.

 

Doesn't matter if I left my Unltd. at home or not. It's still my duty to pay the fare, of have permission to board for free. If there is some kind of error when it comes to MetroCard transfers or payment, then it is the persons job to get with the MTA to resolve the matter.More times than none, if you have a major issue and need a ride you can tell a bus driver, and they will let you on. It's all about how you present yourself, and what your intentions are.

 

And when I say "strictly enforced," I mean when and where it can be done. Obviously it's not needed in many areas, and the ones that need it the most would have to be enforced by the police as it would be too dangerous for transit personnel to get involved.

[checkmatechamp13]

Then by that logic I'd get a half fare, which would be impossible since I travel to Bk for school. And before someone says it, there is no school in SI that has YABC. I'm not a bad student, It's just the math that brings down my average. But by that logic, no metrocard or not enough rides for me.

 

So then under my scenario, you just ask your teachers to write a recommendation and you're good to go.

 

By the way, what's YABC?

 

An evaluation that my team is doing on the state of the MTA.

 

Doesn't matter if I left my Unltd. at home or not. It's still my duty to pay the fare, of have permission to board for free. If there is some kind of error when it comes to MetroCard transfers or payment, then it is the persons job to get with the MTA to resolve the matter.More times than none, if you have a major issue and need a ride you can tell a bus driver, and they will let you on. It's all about how you present yourself, and what your intentions are.

 

And when I say "strictly enforced," I mean when and where it can be done. Obviously it's not needed in many areas, and the ones that need it the most would have to be enforced by the police as it would be too dangerous for transit personnel to get involved.

 

Alright. When you said "strictly enforced", I thought you meant that all bus drivers would have to kick anybody off who didn't pay the full fare, regardless of the circumstance (that would be a zero-tolerance policy, like what VG8 is advocating for).

 

My feeling is that if the B/O lets you ride, then great. If not, it's not worth getting into an argument, getting the cops called, and/or delaying everybody else.

 

I remember once I waited 20 minutes for a bus, and then finally an S89 showed up and took all the people, but 3 people didn't dip in a MetroCard (a 4th one was with them, but he said he paid and the B/O didn't dispute that point). The B/O said something like "this is a monitored bus. If you want a free ride, take the S44 or S59", and the kids didn't leave. The B/O called the cops and the kids didn't leave so finally after 10-15 minutes (and for some reason, there were other scheduled buses that didn't show up) we ended up pulling out (I'm not sure if the kids ended up paying or what).

 

But in any case, the point is that they should only be given a summons if the B/O decides he doesn't want them on the bus. Whether the B/O wants to enforce the fare, and to what extent should be entirely up to them.

[MHV9218]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[checkmatechamp13]

That just doesn't make any sense. You don't help kids who are getting bad grades improve by not letting them show up to school, which is what that would do.

 

Well, you have a point there.

 

But you could also argue that the kids are likely to end up dropping out anyway and are just going to school because they are mandated to, and not because they actually want to learn (and that's why I offered the suggestion of teachers' recommendations, so the students who aren't too smart, but are basically good kids and work reasonably hard can still get the Student MetroCards)

 

Then again, you could argue that you're keeping them off the streets by having them in school.

[East New York]

Well, you have a point there.

 

But you could also argue that the kids are likely to end up dropping out anyway and are just going to school because they are mandated to, and not because they actually want to learn (and that's why I offered the suggestion of teachers' recommendations, so the students who aren't too smart, but are basically good kids and work reasonably hard can still get the Student MetroCards)

 

Then again, you could argue that you're keeping them off the streets by having them in school.

 

Doesn't really matter though. While you can argue all of that, you don't always know who will and won't drop out or what their reasons for doing so are. And keeping track of teacher recommendations would just be a headache...

[B35 via Church]

Punish farebeaters & move on... You shouldn't get special perks or exemptions just because you're a student... Of all the nerve - All these stipulations, and what if's, and excuses.... How in the all out hell did this turn into a discussion about student metrocards anyway..... As if students aren't a part of the human race.... as if societal rules & regs don't apply to them....

 

Spare me the pity party....

Pay the fare or Pay a fine.... There is NO justification for farebeating... None.

 

The silly agendas some of you on this forum have......

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Punish farebeaters & move on... You shouldn't get special perks or exemptions just because you're a student... Of all the nerve - All these stipulations, and what if's, and excuses.... How in the all out hell did this turn into a discussion about student metrocards anyway..... As if students aren't a part of the human race.... as if societal rules & regs don't apply to them....

 

Spare me the pity party....

Pay the fare or Pay a fine.... There is NO justification for farebeating... None.

 

The silly agendas some of you on this forum have......

 

Exactly. As for how or why I've brought up this discussion of student Metrocards, it's because my personal feeling is that their actions help to further encourage farebeating. I don't think all of the "kids" I see farebeating are students, but just young folks looking to beat the system and the more people you see farebeating the more it encourages more people to do it. I mean think about it. If you see 10 people get on and not pay and you're considering not paying, I doubt the first thing you'd think about is oh 10 students just got on that didn't pay. You would think, wow all of those people got on and didn't pay so why should I? It may sound a bit whacky, but it's the truth. People are followers and they follow what others do. I'm of the opinion that taking a tough stance on students farebeating would decrease farebeating overall, particularly adults from farebeating, who may be trying to pass themselves off as "students".

 

Well, you have a point there.

 

But you could also argue that the kids are likely to end up dropping out anyway and are just going to school because they are mandated to, and not because they actually want to learn (and that's why I offered the suggestion of teachers' recommendations, so the students who aren't too smart, but are basically good kids and work reasonably hard can still get the Student MetroCards)

 

Then again, you could argue that you're keeping them off the streets by having them in school.

 

 

Well that's wonderful... They're off of the streets, walking the halls in school. Real "productive". The idea of a student traveling hours and to walk the halls irked me when I was a student in high school and it still irks me now...

 

1) And how does it make the requirements outdated because they are the same from when you were in school? Did the physical abilities of students somehow change that drastically that the same standards aren't valid?

 

Yeah... Kids are abusing the cards more than ever these days and it needs to be cut out that's what. :tdown:

 

2) And most of the "middle class working folks" in this city support having Student MetroCards around. Sure, there are some that don't, but most do.

 

Well that's news to me. What is this based on?? I certainly recall plenty of people being against it and the main folks out there advocating for keeping them were students themselves. The overall attitude is that we the public should not be responsible for providing transportation to school. We already provide monies for public schools. I think if the cards weren't abused so much people wouldn't mind students having them, but they are ABUSED on another level. Aside from that students think that they should NEVER have to pay for a ride because they're a student. You're not a student 24/7 which means that when you're not going to school or your 3 rides are up, you pay. Wanna hang out at a friend's house?? Okay, fine. You pay for it. Don't get on the bus and expect a free ride. It's like me when I worked with the . I had an unlimited pass Monday through Friday for set hours. When the card expired, I didn't get on the bus with a sob story talking about oh I'm doing an internship with the so that entitles me to free transit 24/7. That's what pisses me. You guys are NOT entitled, but you think you are. You have to pay like the rest of us do.

 

Students make up roughly 7% of the riders in the system (and a third of the costs are covered by the DOE), so the extra fare that the "working folks" have to pay is relatively small. So if there were no Student MetroCards, the monthly pass would've gone to say, $100 instead of $104, and the bonus might've been 10% instead of 7%. The burden to those people is a lot less than it is to the students.

 

Yeah, even if the costs are "covered", I seriously doubt they're covered for the additional rides that you guys take and think you're entitled to. 3 rides a day is not 5 or 6 rides...

 

Say somebody lives in the South Bronx, where a lot of the students can't afford the roughly $750 per year to buy a MetroCard. A "working class" person is going to have to deal with the extra problems caused by kids hanging out on the streets, so even to them it's worth the slightly higher fare to get a better quality of life. Not to mention that it's cheaper to give kids a Student MetroCard than it is to pay for welfare and the possible costs of them being arrested.

 

Oh please just stop using that as an excuse. It's such a sickening "sob" story. There are zoned schools which are in walking distance for many. Aside from that, again I ask, what makes you think that "we" the public can afford it??????????

 

You keep saying parents and students can't afford it. You think the paying public has money just laying around??? We don't. We're in a recession all around, so this nonsense of well we can't afford it but others can is just ridiculous. Like I said, if the Metrocards weren't so abused more folks would support keeping them, but there are too many kids abusing them and then they claim they "need" them because oh so many of them are such hard working students. Give me a break. You've got schools closing left and right, so clearly something is wrong. That's another topic, but the point is this urgent need for Metrocards, certainly isn't helping make student achieve more. The argument is that some schools are bad so kids have to go outside of their zoned schools. Well plenty are and it's not making a difference... And how do you explain all of these kids walking on in the morning without showing ANY Metrocard??? They just walse on with nothing... No books, no Metrocard, nothing, so where are they going exactly??

 

I'm not implying that eveybody who gets a Student MetroCard is going to grow up and be successful and not be a burden on the system, but it's definitely a start.

 

You most certainly are... It's like any student who gets a Metrocard is going to be an outstanding individual... Couldn't be any further from the truth.

 

 

 

I don't agree with any policy of zero-tolerance (with regards to anything) because there are many situations where the person isn't harming anybody, but the book says that they are doing something wrong and they should get the full punishment.

 

 

Well of course you don't because you think transit should be free.

[B35 via Church]

a lot of those "students" use up all their fares going to other places besides school, that's why they beat the fare...

 

Yeah... Kids are abusing the cards more than ever these days and it needs to be cut out that's what.

 

That's what it is, and it's been going on for the longest..... even back in the days w/ the "show me" passes (I used to call em... lol)....

kids are not innocent & they are not slick either.... lest they forget that we were once their ages too...... beating the system aint as feasible now w/ the student MC's b/c it controls the amount of uses.... w/ the show me passes, you weren't allowed to use em after a particular time....

 

Students (that only had the bus passes) cutting out the 'R's (rapid) from prior year's passes someone else they knew had, and glueing the cut outs & retrofitting it in their wallets so it looks like it's a legitimate pass (each month had a different "color") just so they can use the train..... and more often than not, for after NON school activities..... I remember that because I used to save my passes & I would get kids (friends of friends, mainly) asking me for them.... They did that for full fare passes too (the ones that only had 1/2 fare)..... At the time when I got hip to why they wanted them for, I was like hell no... aint want no part of that.....

 

I would laugh at the ones that would get caught - "haha, good for you" (friends/acquaintances included)..... and I wouldn't be the only kid LTAO/LMAO either

[Via Garibaldi 8]

...and it's been going on for the longest. even back in the days w/ the "show me" passes (I used to call em... lol)....

kids are not innocent & they are not slick either.... lest they forget that we were once their ages too...... beating the system aint as feasible now w/ the student MC's b/c it controls the amount of uses.... w/ the show me passes, you weren't allowed to use em after a particular time....

 

Students (that only had the bus passes) cutting out the 'R's (rapid) from prior year's passes someone else they knew had, and glueing the cut outs & retrofitting it in their wallets so it looks like it's a legitimate pass (each month had a different "color") just so they can use the train..... and more often than not, for after NON school activities..... I remember that because I used to save my passes & I would get kids (friends of friends, mainly) asking me for them.... At the time when I got hip to why they wanted them for, I was like hell no... aint want no part of that.....

 

 

LOL! That's the first time I ever heard that was going on. But yeah like you said and like I've said, these kids aren't slick. Most of them are not dealing with school activities, so I wish they save the sob stories. That's why many people supported getting rid of them (as I recall). Another thing that would be interesting to study is if the routes that suffer from high levels of farebeating also have a lot of students that use the line. Like I said before, I believe that farebeating encourages more farebeating, be it students or adults.

[checkmatechamp13]

1) Well that's wonderful... They're off of the streets, walking the halls in school. Real "productive". The idea of a student traveling hours and to walk the halls irked me when I was a student in high school and it still irks me now...

 

2) Yeah... Kids are abusing the cards more than ever these days and it needs to be cut out that's what. :tdown:

 

3) Well that's news to me. What is this based on?? I certainly recall plenty of people being against it and the main folks out there advocating for keeping them were students themselves. The overall attitude is that we the public should not be responsible for providing transportation to school. We already provide monies for public schools. I think if the cards weren't abused so much people wouldn't mind students having them, but they are ABUSED on another level. Aside from that students think that they should NEVER have to pay for a ride because they're a student. You're not a student 24/7 which means that when you're not going to school or your 3 rides are up, you pay. Wanna hang out at a friend's house?? Okay, fine. You pay for it. Don't get on the bus and expect a free ride. It's like me when I worked with the . I had an unlimited pass Monday through Friday for set hours. When the card expired, I didn't get on the bus with a sob story talking about oh I'm doing an internship with the so that entitles me to free transit 24/7. That's what pisses me. You guys are NOT entitled, but you think you are. You have to pay like the rest of us do.

 

4) Yeah, even if the costs are "covered", I seriously doubt they're covered for the additional rides that you guys take and think you're entitled to. 3 rides a day is not 5 or 6 rides...

 

5) Oh please just stop using that as an excuse. It's such a sickening "sob" story. There are zoned schools which are in walking distance for many. Aside from that, again I ask, what makes you think that "we" the public can afford it??????????

 

You've got schools closing left and right, so clearly something is wrong. That's another topic, but the point is this urgent need for Metrocards, certainly isn't helping make student achieve more. The argument is that some schools are bad so kids have to go outside of their zoned schools. Well plenty are and it's not making a difference... And how do you explain all of these kids walking on in the morning without showing ANY Metrocard??? They just walse on with nothing... No books, no Metrocard, nothing, so where are they going exactly??

 

6) You most certainly are... It's like any student who gets a Metrocard is going to be an outstanding individual... Couldn't be any further from the truth.

 

7) Well of course you don't because you think transit should be free.

 

1) Who says they're traveling "hours" to get to school? You get a full fare Student MetroCard if you live over 1.5 miles from school. I don't think it takes "hours" to travel 1.5 miles.

 

And yes, keeping them in school is the lesser of two evils.

 

2) Yeah. OK. As B35 said, kids abused the passes back when they were paper passes with "R" and "S" printed on them.

 

3) And I recall plenty of people being for keeping them as well. Maybe if you had stayed for the rest of the hearing (or requested a transcript like I did) you'd see that. There was only one person who opposed keeping Student MetroCards and he wasn't even strongly opposed. Aside from the politicians (who all obviously supported the program), there were several adults who specifically asked to keep them. Not to mention I've heard people talking on the bus and at the supermarket about how getting rid of them is wrong.

 

And you still haven't answered my question of "What happens when 3 rides aren't enough to do school-related activities?" Yes, because of where the routes are in relation to each other (and because I don't mind walking a bit) I can get by in those cases, but there are others who can't.

 

And no, I'm not advocating for everybody to get an additional ride.

 

4) You act like everybody's joyriding the buses and subways all day. I know plenty of kids who barely even use 2 rides per day, let alone 3, let alone 5 or 6.

 

5) Since I know Staten Island the best, you tell me where's a school within a reasonable walking distance of Arlington or West Brighton (any part of the neighborhood, whether by the projects or by Bard Avenue or whatever). Or if you want some more "affluent" neighborhoods, where's the nearest high school for Westerleigh or Rossville or Arden Heights or Eltingville?

 

As for where those kids are going I have no idea because everybody I see on the routes I ride in the morning either has a backpack or a Student MetroCard (and most have both). And if they get off with a ton of kids by a school, I wonder where they could possibly be going.

 

6) I said it doesn't apply in all cases, but it helps. You want to make it seem as if I'm implying that, go ahead.

 

7) Alright then, pay up. You stole $5.50 from the MTA when you sold that girl the ride, which is double what a local bus fare is, so you should pay $1,000 because you believe in zero-tolerance.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1) Who says they're traveling "hours" to get to school? You get a full fare Student MetroCard if you live over 1.5 miles from school. I don't think it takes "hours" to travel 1.5 miles.

 

Plenty of students travel from far distances and walk the halls. This is no secret. They were doing it when I was going to high school and I'm sure plenty are doing it now. Hell LTA1992 is proof of that. He's traveling between Brooklyn and Staten Island to attend school.

 

And yes, keeping them in school is the lesser of two evils.

 

Please... One minute you're implying that giving students Metrocards will make them "productive" citizens of society (not sure where you got that idea from) and now you're saying that them being in school is better than them being on the streets. If they're doing nothing but walking the halls, I don't see how in the world that's at all productive. More like counter productive and a waste of tax dollars and why I would have them cut or severely regulated.

 

2) Yeah. OK. As B35 said, kids abused the passes back when they were paper passes with "R" and "S" printed on them.

 

Yes, but it's even worse today. Now the kids don't even bother to "abuse" them. They just pass their card around and then get on shrug their shoulders and just walk and sit down. Hell half of them that farebeat don't even show anything. Like I said, no card, no books, nothing, so where are they supposed to be going??? Like I said, I don't believe all of them that pretend to be students are actually students.

 

3) And I recall plenty of people being for keeping them as well.

Is that right?? Well then perhaps you can show some proof of this because I recall very well seeing the news and many people were for getting rid of them. It was the students mainly that were marching to keep them.

[Gorgor]

From what I recall the majority was in support of keeping metrocards... I'm not sure where you heard that most were against it. I believe that students should definitely get metrocards to get them to and from school. If a poor family can't afford to send their kids to school then they'll just grow up to be uneducated drug dealers or worse and nothing good will come out of it.

 

And just curious, how does the costs of student metrocards work anyways? Does the DOE and whoever else is paying the bill pay a flat fee per metrocard, or is it like a pay per ride where it's charged every time its used in the machine? I'm just curious because I rarely ever used mine when I went to school; I was paying full fare for the express bus.

[checkmatechamp13]

1) Plenty of students travel from far distances and walk the halls. This is no secret. They were doing it when I was going to high school and I'm sure plenty are doing it now. Hell LTA1992 is proof of that. He's traveling between Brooklyn and Staten Island to attend school.

 

2) Please... One minute you're implying that giving students Metrocards will make them "productive" citizens of society (not sure where you got that idea from) and now you're saying that them being in school is better than them being on the streets. If they're doing nothing but walking the halls, I don't see how in the world that's at all productive. More like counter productive and a waste of tax dollars and why I would have them cut or severely regulated.

 

3) Yes, but it's even worse today. Now the kids don't even bother to "abuse" them. They just pass their card around and then get on shrug their shoulders and just walk and sit down. Hell half of them that farebeat don't even show anything. Like I said, no card, no books, nothing, so where are they supposed to be going??? Like I said, I don't believe all of them that pretend to be students are actually students.

 

4) Is that right?? Well then perhaps you can show some proof of this because I recall very well seeing the news and many people were for getting rid of them. It was the students mainly that were marching to keep them.

 

1) He doesn't sound particularly stupid to me. He said his grades are decent, so he's not "traveling miles to walk the halls".

 

2) Did I say it would apply to all students? No, I didn't, but there are a certain percentage who benefit from it.

 

I read in the Post (I think) that there was a school in the Bronx where the 4-year graduation rate was 3% (not a typo). If you lived in that neighborhood and had any sort of motivation, wouldn't you want to avoid that school? If nothing else, it's a safety issue (it's hard to get good grades when you get your brains beaten out of you every day), even if one could manage to be the one person in the class who does all their work (and those 97% are going to be a very strong influence to drive somebody to try drugs or get pregnant or join a gang or something)

 

So if you had a student with intellectual capabilities like me, and put them in a school like that, then absolutely a Student MetroCard would help.

 

As far as the rest of the students, it may not be as extreme, but it helps. For the ones who are absolutely intent on causing trouble, it's still better to keep them in school than out on the streets.

 

3) In the afternoons, maybe (though some B/Os encourage it to "keep it moving" so to speak if they're the first bus that comes right after dismissal). In the mornings, most of the kids I see dip in their MetroCards.

 

4) You know I edit my posts. I said it's in the transcripts and I've heard bus riders and people in the supermarket talking about it. Even a lot of transit workers support it (and I know for a fact at least one transit worker advocated to keep them during a hearing)

 

From what I recall the majority was in support of keeping metrocards... I'm not sure where you heard that most were against it. I believe that students should definitely get metrocards to get them to and from school. If a poor family can't afford to send their kids to school then they'll just grow up to be uneducated drug dealers or worse and nothing good will come out of it.

 

And just curious, how does the costs of student metrocards work anyways? Does the DOE and whoever else is paying the bill pay a flat fee per metrocard, or is it like a pay per ride where it's charged every time its used in the machine? I'm just curious because I rarely ever used mine when I went to school; I was paying full fare for the express bus.

 

Thank you. See even somebody from the UES agrees with me.

 

And basically, the city pays the MTA $25 million and the state pays $45 million, and they essentially tell the MTA "Give us 585,000 Student MetroCards valid for the whole year". So when I go on the bus in the morning and dip my Student MetroCard, the farebox records that a student is riding, but the MTA doesn't get any additional money.

[B35 via Church]

Like I said, I don't believe all of them that pretend to be students are actually students.

 

I know they aren't.... There's plenty of that goin on too, quiet is as kept....

College kids, even young looking college grads using their younger brother's/sister's student MC's to get around (b/c their [siblings or sons/daughters] walk to school & don't need them).... Oh, dropouts fall into this category of faking like they're students also....

 

That's another problem in & of itself.... I believe folks that misuse student MC's in that manner should be fined heavier than (which would be) the ones farebeating by hopping the backs of buses, etc..... Sure, both are blatant attempts to beat the system, but the pre-meditation is definitely present....

 

I generally don't like giving hypotheticals; try to give real world examples wherever possible....

So if it sounds like I'm spilling secrets (lol) to the folks that's out there did/doing w/e I mentioned thus far... Well, too bad for them.....

[MHV9218]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[checkmatechamp13]

I generally don't like giving hypotheticals; try to give real world examples wherever possible....

So if it sounds like I'm spilling secrets (lol) to the folks that's out there did/doing w/e I mentioned thus far... Well, too bad for them.....

 

You're not spilling any secrets. The same way the MTA knows about all sorts of fare evasion on the buses and doesn't do anything about it is the same way they're know about these ways of abusing Student MetroCards and don't do anything about it. There are probably a bunch of ways none of us has thought of involving ways to abuse Student MetroCards. The MTA just accepts that there is going to be a certain abuse rate with any program and moves on.

 

"The overall attitude..." What are you smoking? There is NOBODY out there in the public who has advocated eliminating student cards as a budget solution. I don't know who you've been imagining on television. You're a minority of one. This is a non-issue.

 

Exactly. You might hear some people complaining "Those kids are so loud when they get on the bus/train", but they know that the city overall is better with the Student MetroCard program. As the saying goes "Don't throw the baby out with the bath water". If you get rid of Student MetroCards, you're not just affecting those who "travel miles to roam the halls" (who will be roaming their neighborhoods instead), but plenty of hard-working students as well.

[B35 via Church]

- Getting rid of student MC's is only gonna encourage farebeating.... That's equivalent to raising the base fare (in one shot) to some astronomical amount......

 

- Being lenient to farebeaters will only keep the current frequency of farebeating ongoing....

 

 

 

 

You're not spilling any secrets. The same way the MTA knows about all sorts of fare evasion on the buses and doesn't do anything about it is the same way they're know about these ways of abusing Student MetroCards and don't do anything about it. There are probably a bunch of ways none of us has thought of involving ways to abuse Student MetroCards.

Good lord.... I wasn't speaking in terms of what the MTA does or doesn't know... I was speaking in terms of folks that's out here farebeating when I made that statement...

 

anyway, you say this from the vantage point of someone that doesn't use various methods to farebeat.... Well, at least I hope not anyway....

 

Folks that engage in farebeating tactics generally believe they'll never get caught....

Like the likes of anyone engaging in criminal activity.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

What a load of complete bullsh!t. THIS IS A NON-ISSUE. The MTA will not eliminate student cards, so you can shut your trap about it. All you've been doing is revealing how heartless and selfish you are, that you think since you don't have kids, everybody who does should have to suffer. Here's something to chew on:

 

The only people who have EVER advocated eliminating student cards were the MTA when they were BEGGING for money. The reason they mention student cards when they're broke is that they know the ENTIRE PUBLIC is going to be against eliminating them, so it becomes a talking point.

 

"The overall attitude..." What are you smoking? There is NOBODY out there in the public who has advocated eliminating student cards as a budget solution. I don't know who you've been imagining on television. You're a minority of one. This is a non-issue.

 

My point was some people wouldn't have had an issue seeing them go, so if yeah technically they weren't "advocating" against keeping them, but they sure as heck weren't saying oh my goodness, those poor students need their Metrocards so badly. I DO recall some saying that the parents should indeed be responsible for their kids if their kids need a Metrocard, so no I'm not smoking anything. I know what I saw. You as usual trying to play the whole "class warfare" game... When did I say that people were advocating for eliminating student Metrocards as as a "budget solution"?? You're the one that is clearly smoking something...

[checkmatechamp13]

Good lord.... I wasn't speaking in terms of what the MTA does or doesn't know... I was speaking in terms of folks that's out here farebeating when I made that statement...

 

anyway, you say this from the vantage point of someone that doesn't use various methods to farebeat.... Well, at least I hope not anyway....

 

Folks that engage in farebeating tactics generally believe they'll never get caught....

Like the likes of anyone engaging in criminal activity.

 

You said "Well too bad for them", which implied to me that by revealing ways that Student MetroCards could be abused, that the MTA would suddenly come in and combat that form of abuse.

 

My point was some people wouldn't have had an issue seeing them go, so if yeah technically they weren't "advocating" against keeping them, but they sure as heck weren't saying oh my goodness, those poor students need their Metrocards so badly. I DO recall some saying that the parents should indeed be responsible for their kids if their kids need a Metrocard, so no I'm not smoking anything. I know what I saw. You as usual trying to play the whole "class warfare" game... When did I say that people were advocating for eliminating student Metrocards as as a "budget solution"?? You're the one that is clearly smoking something...

 

For every single issue, there's always going to be more than one person on the opposing side. You act like the vast majority of NYers don't want the Student MetroCards kept, which isn't the case. Yes, some say "Those lazy parents should pay the full costs of their kid's transportation", but that isn't the opinion of the majority of NYers the way you're trying to imply.

[B35 via Church]

You said "Well too bad for them", which implied to me that by revealing ways that Student MetroCards could be abused, that the MTA would suddenly come in and combat that form of abuse.

 

Well you read too much into it then...

I don't know where in the world you felt I was implicating the MTA in any of that... But in any event....

 

"Too bad for them" in the sense of, people (i.e, the riders that AREN'T out here farebeating) aren't oblivious to the tactics farebeaters are using to get over.... It's a way of sayin (from a non-farebeater to a farebeater) "yeah, I see you" - and I don't mean "see" solely in the literal sense of the word either.....

 

Posting one, or a few, or however many of their tactics it on a forum might open more people's (meaning, non-farebeaters') eyes to it..... What those people go out & do w/ the information isn't in my control, nor does it matter to me....

 

That is what I meant by spilling secrets where I said it....

Had squat to do w/ the MTA finding out (or knowing prior) any of it & the actions they'd carry out after the fact....

[Grand Concourse]

That just doesn't make any sense. You don't help kids who are getting bad grades improve by not letting them show up to school, which is what that would do.

Kids that want to learn will have to focus on their school work and get better grades. Those that have failures across all the subjects are obviously not learning and are a drain on the system. It is because either they don't want to learn [chances are they are the ones interrupting class and taking up time for learning] or they need to attend some special ed school and get the attention they need.

 

Like I said before, there can be asses that are also smart, and kids that are struggling in class, but not terrors on the trains. However, schools are a place to learn, they are not daycares for the convenience of parents going to work. So parents that think they can pass the kid off at school and not at least get their kids 'motivated' to learn, then that is their own fault especially if there are after school programs to help tutor kids if they have problems with subjects.

=

Coming back to the fine issue, kids that have student cards, but still sneaks in the back of the bus and not dip the card in the box, they should be hit with the full $500 fine. They are getting prepaid cards, that is no excuse to not use them. If kids are responsible, they will hold on to those cards for the 6 months that they are valid and they should not forget the cards. They don't need to worry about low balances on the cards as long as they use the 3 rides maximum per day.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

For every single issue, there's always going to be more than one person on the opposing side. You act like the vast majority of NYers don't want the Student MetroCards kept, which isn't the case. Yes, some say "Those lazy parents should pay the full costs of their kid's transportation", but that isn't the opinion of the majority of NYers the way you're trying to imply.

 

Quite frankly I don't. Like I said they are abused and that is a good reason to get rid of them. I say come up with a new system altogether. Student Metrocards should not be a given. I would start with Kids going to different schools out of their zones. If they're not making the grade, ship them to their zoned school. For kids in zoned schools that still need Metrocards, if they aren't making the grade or have too many absences, the Metrocards would be taken away. Most importantly I would find a way to better identify who is using them. None of this passing your Metrocard to some other guy nonsense. The crackdown would be severe and is needed. You want to argue that they're needed for school and I agree 110%. They're needed for school and school related issues and NOTHING else. No hanging out and none of that. Wanna do that?? Pay for it.

 

That's my position and I think that's the position of many. Weed out the abuse and you'd see a drop overall in farebeating (and I do mean overall including adults) and better students overall contributing overall to society. :tup:

[LTA1992]

So then under my scenario, you just ask your teachers to write a recommendation and you're good to go.

 

By the way, what's YABC?

 

 

 

Young Adult Borough Center. Is a program for people like moi who just sucked at school. Smaller classes equals a better thinking environment for me. Plus, most people in the program came from my old school so It was easy to get used to. Anywhoo, 4 days a week from 3:30om-8:30. Perfect for me.

 

But on the topic of school metro's, I just noticed a comment about good grades/attendance=metro. Let me give you something to think about here. There are kids(I was one of them) that have bad attendance, but pass all their classes. There are those that have perfect attendance, but dont pass most of their classes. What could the system do for these cases if the Cards were grade/attendance based?