Will Bus Time lead to increased ridership?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It's still a bit early, but from my observations, Bus Time may well be leading to more people using public transportation, particularly buses. I have been traveling on the X10 during times that the bus in the past was normally empty. I've even seen an increase in the number of riders using lines like the S54. All of the X10s that I've been using have been fairly crowded, but more crowded than usual. I am wondering what has other people's experiences been in terms of ridership on Staten Island? I am also wondering if the has noted any increase in ridership on the B63 after they started using Bus Time on the line?

 

Tonight I was going to use car service from the X10, but after hearing that I would have to wait an hour for a 5 minute ride and I said forget it and hung up. Pulled out my phone and saw that a S62 was due to arrive in 2 minutes. The bus came as scheduled and was quite crowded. We also made stops at stops that we normally don't stop at too. I then caught the S53 in about 5 minutes or so which also had much more passengers than usual at Clove and Victory. Granted it was the Super Bowl, but we're talking 22:30 on a Sunday night...

[B35 via Church]

Initially, yeah.... Gradually over time/in an overall sense, can't see it....

 

Wait til the buzz of bustime dies down.... the riders'll snap back to reality & notice the actual service on their routes still isn't all that good...

 

The (added) amount of service on a route will always trump knowing when buses are coming....

With routes that already have good service, well, it'll just be a double bonus, so to speak.....

[SoSpectacular]

To me, BusTime is just there to kinda keep the general populace happy about where their next bus is...

 

At the stop and getting impatient? Whip out the smartphone!

Hoping to make that next transfer at the intersection? Whip out the smartphone!

[B35 via Church]

To me, BusTime is just there to kinda keep the general populace happy about where their next bus is...

 

That's all it is.....

[S78 via Hylan]

I think it's a little early to tell if Bustime will lead to more ridership on certains. It might be a better when every borough has Bustime up and running, then we can see what routes have increased in ridership or even some that might stay the same.

 

I would say routes that normally aren't busy in terms of ridership or routes that suffer from bunching, delays... etc might be affected by this.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

To me, BusTime is just there to kinda keep the general populace happy about where their next bus is...

 

At the stop and getting impatient? Whip out the smartphone!

Hoping to make that next transfer at the intersection? Whip out the smartphone!

 

Initially, yeah.... Gradually over time/in an overall sense, can't see it....

 

Wait til the buzz of bustime dies down.... the riders'll snap back to reality & notice the actual service on their routes still isn't all that good...

 

The (added) amount of service on a route will always trump knowing when buses are coming....

With routes that already have good service, well, it'll just be a double bonus, so to speak.....

 

I agree that it's too early to tell, but it has certainly enticed me to use the local buses on Staten Island more. I mean if you use a route that isn't frequent but doesn't drag about then you may use the buses a bit more since you'll be able to see where the bus is, but if your route drags along then it may not matter much. I think in addition to knowing where the bus is, folks want the buses to become quicker too, so that is something that the will need to address. I mean I don't mind using the local buses during the weekends and such on Staten Island (especially since I'll be leaving soon anyway), but when I come to visit, I couldn't see myself using them if I was really in a rush. I still do see a large amount of bunching on the weekends alone on lines like the S53, so it's hard to say.

[FamousNYLover]

Even Bus Crowd tracks buses in Manhattan bus routes only.

BusCrowd

[BrooklynBus]

It will lead to more ridership only if the MTA uses it to take measures that will help put the buses back on schedule like skipping the first few stops when two buses are together or shorturning one before the end of the route if it is empty.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It will lead to more ridership only if the MTA uses it to take measures that will help put the buses back on schedule like skipping the first few stops when two buses are together or shorturning one before the end of the route if it is empty.

 

The thing is though, if buses stick to their schedules overall and people know more or less when they'll get to their destination, I would think that ridership could increase during off-peak times at least don't you think??

 

Another thing that I've been thinking about is more and more people using the last buses of the night and so on since they can track them. Before most people would just take the next to last bus to be safe. Do you think this could force the to extend the run times of some routes??

[checkmatechamp13]

To me, BusTime is just there to kinda keep the general populace happy about where their next bus is...

 

At the stop and getting impatient? Whip out the smartphone!

Hoping to make that next transfer at the intersection? Whip out the smartphone!

 

The thing is that yeah, if you don't have an alternative it's pretty much useless, but if you have an alternative, you know whether you should use it or not.

 

The obvious example is VG8 deciding whether to use car service or take the bus home from the X10 or X12. If he sees the S54 is by Susan Wagner High School, and his X10 is pulling into the Slosson Avenue stop, he'll know that his wait time is only a few minutes. But if he sees that there's no bus in his direction, he'll just call car service (or possibly take the S61/62/66 to the S53)

 

The alternative doesn't always have to be car service or another bus route. Sometimes there are trips where I can walk if there's no bus coming. For instance, sometimes I have to go from Port Richmond to Mariners' Harbor. I would prefer that the S46 come of course, but if it doesn't I can walk that distance and beat the following bus there (e.g. If bus A at 15:00 is missing, I can walk to Mariners' Harbor before bus B at 15:12 would've gotten me there). So in this case, the alternative is walking.

 

But in that particular case, it depends on the types of people riding. Some people walk down the path of the route, and if they see a bus along the way, they jump on (B35 said they would do it in areas like Parkchester and Flatbush with the Bx14 and B23), whereas others actually stand at the stop and wait for the bus.

 

But if you're stuck on one corridor and don't have alternatives (e.g. If I'm at Richmond Avenue/Forest Avenue going to the SI Mall, knowing that there's a 20 minute gap in service doesn't do me much good because I have no alternatives)

 

I agree that it's too early to tell, but it has certainly enticed me to use the local buses on Staten Island more. I mean if you use a route that isn't frequent but doesn't drag about then you may use the buses a bit more since you'll be able to see where the bus is, but if your route drags along then it may not matter much. I think in addition to knowing where the bus is, folks want the buses to become quicker too, so that is something that the will need to address. I mean I don't mind using the local buses during the weekends and such on Staten Island (especially since I'll be leaving soon anyway), but when I come to visit, I couldn't see myself using them if I was really in a rush. I still do see a large amount of bunching on the weekends alone on lines like the S53, so it's hard to say.

 

And that's why I said the MTA should take the opportunity to change the runtimes. If you have a bus that's consistantly arriving 10-15 minutes early (like you said the S54 sometimes does), then you should factor that into the schedule. Even if you don't care about the passenger getting to their destination faster, it can help save money and/or allow you to improve service at no extra cost (e.g. Maybe a route that runs every 30 minutes can run every 20 minutes because of the reduced runtime, or maybe you can extend it somewhere while keeping costs the same)

 

On humantransit.org, the guy had a mantra: Frequency costs, speed saves. The faster you can make the buses, the more money you save (and that's not even including the benefits to the passenger, which can improve ridership)

 

Another thing that I've been thinking about is more and more people using the last buses of the night and so on since they can track them. Before most people would just take the next to last bus to be safe. Do you think this could force the to extend the run times of some routes??

 

It depends on the route itself. If people are trying to catch the last bus of the night, and for some reason it is overcrowded (or close to it), I could see the MTA adding extra service around that time (either more frequency before the last bus leaves, or later service). But if it's just the difference between 10 people riding and 15 people riding, I think they'll leave it alone.

[SIR North Shore]

Absolutely, but speaking only for staten island. BusTime makes it much easier to get around and more time to do other things rather than wasting your life at a bus stop indefinitely. In other boros, the buses even if they are not following the schedule, run very often.. so BusTime is not a huge necessity but for SI where the buses were running early/late more than on-time and the next bus is ways away, it makes a huge difference. I would definitely say that riders are noticing the improvements, and that ridership will only rise from this point on.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The thing is that yeah, if you don't have an alternative it's pretty much useless, but if you have an alternative, you know whether you should use it or not.

 

The obvious example is VG8 deciding whether to use car service or take the bus home from the X10 or X12. If he sees the S54 is by Susan Wagner High School, and his X10 is pulling into the Slosson Avenue stop, he'll know that his wait time is only a few minutes. But if he sees that there's no bus in his direction, he'll just call car service (or possibly take the S61/62/66 to the S53)

 

The alternative doesn't always have to be car service or another bus route. Sometimes there are trips where I can walk if there's no bus coming. For instance, sometimes I have to go from Port Richmond to Mariners' Harbor. I would prefer that the S46 come of course, but if it doesn't I can walk that distance and beat the following bus there (e.g. If bus A at 15:00 is missing, I can walk to Mariners' Harbor before bus B at 15:12 would've gotten me there). So in this case, the alternative is walking.

 

But in that particular case, it depends on the types of people riding. Some people walk down the path of the route, and if they see a bus along the way, they jump on (B35 said they would do it in areas like Parkchester and Flatbush with the Bx14 and B23), whereas others actually stand at the stop and wait for the bus.

 

But if you're stuck on one corridor and don't have alternatives (e.g. If I'm at Richmond Avenue/Forest Avenue going to the SI Mall, knowing that there's a 20 minute gap in service doesn't do me much good because I have no alternatives)

 

Well the thing is with me, I plan my commute using Bus Time, so ideally I plan to leave wherever I'm at so that I meet my bus. Most folks on Staten Island have several alternatives. For example, if the X14 has already come and there's no X30, my next back ups would be the X12, X17J or X10 depending on where I want to go. :cool: Some people may think it's crazy, but in more suburban areas it's really the only way to commute unless you want to add needless time to your commute. I mean if your bus comes one every 30 minutes or once an hour, you ideally want to time it so that you spend as little time as possible waiting. Add to the fact that I have my alternatives down pat and know what time they're scheduled and it just allows me to save more time if I need to use an alternative, so in sum, the more suburban you are the more Bus Time can help. If you've got frequent service though, most folks won't are too much.

 

 

And that's why I said the MTA should take the opportunity to change the runtimes. If you have a bus that's consistantly arriving 10-15 minutes early (like you said the S54 sometimes does), then you should factor that into the schedule. Even if you don't care about the passenger getting to their destination faster, it can help save money and/or allow you to improve service at no extra cost (e.g. Maybe a route that runs every 30 minutes can run every 20 minutes because of the reduced runtime, or maybe you can extend it somewhere while keeping costs the same)

 

What I'm starting to realize is that B/Os on Staten Island are "struggling" to keep the schedule because many of them didn't pay attention to the run times and just came whenever. From what I see if the B/O follows the schedule instead of trying to be a speed demon, the schedule isn't that big of a deal. I've been tracking certain lines as an experiment, mainly the S53, S54 and X10 and I see how some of them come early. If you've got a late bus say on the S53 or the X10 and they're scheduled close enough together, I've seen instances where the follower will pull out early and then go blazing down the street. Meanwhile the guy in front of him is picking up folks and he's behind him just enough to miss picking up the next load of folks that would be waiting for him if he came as schedule and come on time rather than early.

 

As a matter of fact I've tracked some of those buses and used them to see how they operate. Did it with an S53 and that's exactly what he did. I saw him pull out right after another S53 has pulled out and was picking up passengers then I walked down the street and got him and his bus had two people on it and we went flying up to the X10 in no time. I get the feeling that some of them like riding empty, hence why there were such issues with even loading for so long. Bus Time has revealed all of my suspicions about the unreliability of buses on Staten Island and now the can finally manage the problem. I think the reason why the problem was so bad on Staten Island was simply because the B/Os were allowed to show up whenever. I can remember times when passengers would call up the depot to see if the last express bus came and Castleton would confirm that the last bus had came even though he ran early. They had no problem with the last bus coming early and basically they seemed to be telling the passengers that they were ish out of luck if they didn't come early enough, so it was a combination of a lack of oversight of the B/Os and a lax attitude of management in Castleton esp. and Yukon as well.

[checkmatechamp13]

What I'm starting to realize is that B/Os on Staten Island are "struggling" to keep the schedule because many of them didn't pay attention to the run times and just came whenever. From what I see if the B/O follows the schedule instead of trying to be a speed demon, the schedule isn't that big of a deal. I've been tracking certain lines as an experiment, mainly the S53, S54 and X10 and I see how some of them come early. If you've got a late bus say on the S53 or the X10 and they're scheduled close enough together, I've seen instances where the follower will pull out early and then go blazing down the street. Meanwhile the guy in front of him is picking up folks and he's behind him just enough to miss picking up the next load of folks that would be waiting for him if he came as schedule and come on time rather than early.

 

As a matter of fact I've tracked some of those buses and used them to see how they operate. Did it with an S53 and that's exactly what he did. I saw him pull out right after another S53 has pulled out and was picking up passengers then I walked down the street and got him and his bus had two people on it and we went flying up to the X10 in no time. I get the feeling that some of them like riding empty, hence why there were such issues with even loading for so long. Bus Time has revealed all of my suspicions about the unreliability of buses on Staten Island and now the can finally manage the problem. I think the reason why the problem was so bad on Staten Island was simply because the B/Os were allowed to show up whenever. I can remember times when passengers would call up the depot to see if the last express bus came and Castleton would confirm that the last bus had came even though he ran early. They had no problem with the last bus coming early and basically they seemed to be telling the passengers that they were ish out of luck if they didn't come early enough, so it was a combination of a lack of oversight of the B/Os and a lax attitude of management in Castleton esp. and Yukon as well.

 

Yeah, but that's the thing, a B/O doesn't necessarily have to be a speed demon to come early. You could have the bus leave at a normal time, and the B/O drives normally and then ends up getting ahead of schedule anyway. Like I said, I've had buses where the B/O is picking up everybody they're supposed to, and yet they still end up arriving early (which is a good thing because it helped the passengers catch the earlier ferry). Now, you could end up having the problem of the B/O being forced to drive excessively slowly just to meet the schedule, when the schedule doesn't reflect the real conditions. If the road is wide open and the passenger loads are relatively light (or if they happen to be distributed in a way where there's no need for the extra time), then it's pointless (buses running early and being crowded does occasionally happen)

 

As far as leaving early, well that shouldn't be allowed to happen, and for the time being, the buses should be kept on time for as much of the route as possible, but the MTA should definitely take this opportunity to speed the buses up. (And maybe somehow, this can be used as an excuse to get the S83 limited going. That, and maybe some off-peak and reverse-peak S98 service)

 

And the thing is that you may end up with some larger than normal gaps, but I've found that if the gap happens on a regular basis (meaning at the same time of the day), people tend to adjust. For instance, at the time I go to school, they moved the S96 forward 5 minutes, so now there's a huge gap and then the S96 is the first bus to fill it, so of course it's packed. At first, you would have a packed bus, and you'd be leaving behind a ton of people at the stops immediately to the west of Port Richmond High School (I don't know how it is east of that point. And they have some buses that come right out of the Castleton Depot to fill in the gap, so that affects crowding as well). Now, you don't really see as many people at those stops: A lot of them either caught an earlier bus (which was spaced evenly) or they made their way to another route (or in the case of people like me, they walked if it was close enough).

 

So if you adjust the runtimes so that the buses are spaced out in a certain way so that more buses can meet the ferry, it helps the riders overall, and like I said, you have the advantages of speed and cost savings. In the case of express buses, you don't have many people making connections, but you still have the advantage of speed, which helps people a lot.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yeah, but that's the thing, a B/O doesn't necessarily have to be a speed demon to come early. You could have the bus leave at a normal time, and the B/O drives normally and then ends up getting ahead of schedule anyway. Like I said, I've had buses where the B/O is picking up everybody they're supposed to, and yet they still end up arriving early (which is a good thing because it helped the passengers catch the earlier ferry). Now, you could end up having the problem of the B/O being forced to drive excessively slowly just to meet the schedule, when the schedule doesn't reflect the real conditions. If the road is wide open and the passenger loads are relatively light (or if they happen to be distributed in a way where there's no need for the extra time), then it's pointless (buses running early and being crowded does occasionally happen)

 

As far as leaving early, well that shouldn't be allowed to happen, and for the time being, the buses should be kept on time for as much of the route as possible, but the MTA should definitely take this opportunity to speed the buses up. (And maybe somehow, this can be used as an excuse to get the S83 limited going. That, and maybe some off-peak and reverse-peak S98 service)

 

And the thing is that you may end up with some larger than normal gaps, but I've found that if the gap happens on a regular basis (meaning at the same time of the day), people tend to adjust. For instance, at the time I go to school, they moved the S96 forward 5 minutes, so now there's a huge gap and then the S96 is the first bus to fill it, so of course it's packed. At first, you would have a packed bus, and you'd be leaving behind a ton of people at the stops immediately to the west of Port Richmond High School (I don't know how it is east of that point. And they have some buses that come right out of the Castleton Depot to fill in the gap, so that affects crowding as well). Now, you don't really see as many people at those stops: A lot of them either caught an earlier bus (which was spaced evenly) or they made their way to another route (or in the case of people like me, they walked if it was close enough).

 

So if you adjust the runtimes so that the buses are spaced out in a certain way so that more buses can meet the ferry, it helps the riders overall, and like I said, you have the advantages of speed and cost savings. In the case of express buses, you don't have many people making connections, but you still have the advantage of speed, which helps people a lot.

 

Well I will agree about the ferry thing to a degree. They should try to schedule the buses to leave more time for them to meet the ferry, BUT with Bus Time coming into play now, I see more buses on time and I mean right on time, so if folks feel like they don't have enough time with their current bus to meet the ferry, they can take the bus before that. I mean sure they should look for ways to speed up the buses, but they're already buying new low floor buses which help speed up boarding significantly. I don't see the big deal. You keep complaining about them being slow, but YOU KNOW THE SCHEDULE!! It is no secret that dispatch will be keeping the buses to schedule so if you know that X bus is supposed to arrive at X time then that's it. Nothing to complain about and I haven't seen anyone complain yet since they've started announcing this on the buses. You're just complaining because you don't give yourself enough time for your commute, so it is what it is. You complained before about not being able to make connections or buses coming early, and now you complain about them being on time.

 

As for the S83, if the S53s become more prompt and run on schedule then there may not be a need for the S83. I've been using the S53 of late (yes shocking I know) but I tell you, they're more reliable than car service now w/Bus Time. I was running a bit late the other bus and then I used Bus Time to make up for the lost time. Caught the S53 and he got up to meet the X14 I needed. :cool: Before if I tried making that connection it would always come late.

[checkmatechamp13]

Well I will agree about the ferry thing to a degree. They should try to schedule the buses to leave more time for them to meet the ferry, BUT with Bus Time coming into play now, I see more buses on time and I mean right on time, so if folks feel like they don't have enough time with their current bus to meet the ferry, they can take the bus before that. I mean sure they should look for ways to speed up the buses, but they're already buying new low floor buses which help speed up boarding significantly.

 

I don't see the big deal. You keep complaining about them being slow, but YOU KNOW THE SCHEDULE!! It is no secret that dispatch will be keeping the buses to schedule so if you know that X bus is supposed to arrive at X time then that's it. Nothing to complain about and I haven't seen anyone complain yet since they've started announcing this on the buses. You're just complaining because you don't give yourself enough time for your commute, so it is what it is. You complained before about not being able to make connections or buses coming early, and now you complain about them being on time.

 

As for the S83, if the S53s become more prompt and run on schedule then there may not be a need for the S83. I've been using the S53 of late (yes shocking I know) but I tell you, they're more reliable than car service now w/Bus Time. I was running a bit late the other bus and then I used Bus Time to make up for the lost time. Caught the S53 and he got up to meet the X14 I needed. :cool: Before if I tried making that connection it would always come late.

 

Yeah, but then it comes down to what B35 said: The service levels themselves aren't too good. I mean, you could have to leave an extra 15-20 minutes to catch the ferry you intend to because those are the headways of the buses. I mean, when your commute is probably an hour or more, how much time are you supposed to add?

 

As for the other part of your comment:

a) What the hell do connections have to do with anything? You know they don't time any connections. That has nothing to do with buses coming early. I still have the right to complain, though. It's just that the MTA isn't going to do anything because, with how complex the network is, it's impossible for all transfers to be timed, but I still have the right to complain. It's unnecessary time added onto my trip and even if I'm not in a hurry, it's still annoying.

 

B) Well for the morning commute, like I said, that's not my fault. It's not the MTA's fault either, but it's not mine for reasons I explained a while back.

 

And for your information, my morning commute (on average) has not changed one bit since they implemented BusTime, so I don't get where you're getting the idea that I'm complaining about buses being on time. Buses aren't running any slower than they used to before BusTime.

 

I'm just saying that it is annoying when the bus has to kill time at stops. I'm not saying it happens as a normal part of my travels (and when it does, it's usually when I'm coming into school earlier than usual so it's not a big deal). And like I said, even if I'm not in a hurry, there's no point in needlessly adding to my travel time.

 

As for the S83, it would still help make the travel time faster. Even if the S53s are coming on time, they're still not as fast as the S83 would be.

[Acela Express]

The paddle reports we're required to abid by are based on time of day with the basic traffic conditions and stops buses are required to make. There's plenty of days where traffic is light because of who knows what - like, example: Super Bowl Sunday - I was given a significant amount of time to make it from time-point A to B and had to drag slowly because traffic was limited (everyone watching the game).

 

That's how it works.

 

Now, much of the time when a bus is early, you're supposed to adjust the schedule instead of racing down the line anyway. If dispatchers aren't doing anything about it, then that's on supervision. But I tell you this, it's not gonna happen too much often as GPS-enabled buses are making their way into the fleet where SLDs can adjust buses as needed without passing the check point they're posted at.

 

Overall, things are looking up in terms of keeping service inline.

[checkmatechamp13]

If dispatchers aren't doing anything about it, then that's on supervision. But I tell you this, it's not gonna happen too much often as GPS-enabled buses are making their way into the fleet where SLDs can adjust buses as needed without passing the check point they're posted at.

 

Overall, things are looking up in terms of keeping service inline.

 

I'm not sure what you're saying.

 

So is there the possibility of the runtimes being adjusted a few months down the road or isn't there? :confused:

[Acela Express]

So is there the possibility of the runtimes being adjusted a few months down the road or isn't there? :confused:

Whatever they have planned, BusTime was presented not only for passengers, but for supervision to keep track of each and every bus (two for the price of one), thus keeping an "big brother" eye on the operators, especially the ones who f*ck the line up.

 

And when you mean adjust runtimes, are you referring to cutting the time needed for buses to make it from dest. A to B? Or what exactly?

[checkmatechamp13]

Whatever they have planned, BusTime was presented not only for passengers, but for supervision to keep track of each and every bus (two for the price of one), thus keeping an "big brother" eye on the operators, especially the ones who f*ck the line up.

 

And when you mean adjust runtimes, are you referring to cutting the time needed for buses to make it from dest. A to B? Or what exactly?

 

Yes, I'm referring to cutting the runtime needed to get from point A to point B. Or in some cases, the runtime may need to be added or redistributed along the different portions of the route (for instance, if a bus always arrives early at one timepoint, but makes it on time to the next one, then just make it so that it is scheduled to arrive at the timepoint a few minutes earlier, but keep everything else the same)

[Acela Express]

Yes, I'm referring to cutting the runtime needed to get from point A to point B. Or in some cases, the runtime may need to be added or redistributed along the different portions of the route (for instance, if a bus always arrives early at one timepoint, but makes it on time to the next one, then just make it so that it is scheduled to arrive at the timepoint a few minutes earlier, but keep everything else the same)

Well, overall, there's really nothing that can be done unless they redo the operations planning for the entire route for each part of the day, which requires much route studying. But, if during that study nothing is worth changing, the running time will remain the same.

 

Don't think BusTime will help adjust these numbers, but more likely keep an close on operators who are not abiding by the schedule given.

 

Who knows. :confused:

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yeah, but then it comes down to what B35 said: The service levels themselves aren't too good. I mean, you could have to leave an extra 15-20 minutes to catch the ferry you intend to because those are the headways of the buses. I mean, when your commute is probably an hour or more, how much time are you supposed to add?

 

LOL... Well if you want your commute to be that fast then you don't use the local bus... I can't believe you're even saying that when you've constantly talked about how folks who live in the suburbs knew what they were getting when they moved there.

 

As for the other part of your comment:

a) What the hell do connections have to do with anything? You know they don't time any connections. That has nothing to do with buses coming early. I still have the right to complain, though. It's just that the MTA isn't going to do anything because, with how complex the network is, it's impossible for all transfers to be timed, but I still have the right to complain. It's unnecessary time added onto my trip and even if I'm not in a hurry, it's still annoying.

 

Who said that they time the connections??? The point was if you need to make connections you leave enough time to do so. With Bus Time I can make connections that I couldn't before because the buses come as scheduled. That's the point. Now stop complaining.

 

Well for the morning commute, like I said, that's not my fault. It's not the MTA's fault either, but it's not mine for reasons I explained a while back.

 

Yeah it's one of those "el vaso se rompió" moments... lol

 

And for your information, my morning commute (on average) has not changed one bit since they implemented BusTime, so I don't get where you're getting the idea that I'm complaining about buses being on time.

Buses aren't running any slower than they used to before BusTime.

 

I'm just saying that it is annoying when the bus has to kill time at stops. I'm not saying it happens as a normal part of my travels (and when it does, it's usually when I'm coming into school earlier than usual so it's not a big deal). And like I said, even if I'm not in a hurry, there's no point in needlessly adding to my travel time.

 

Needlessly adding??? You just said the buses aren't running any slower, then you say they needlessly add to your travel time. If the buses are holding to the schedule, there is no adding to your travel time. The point is it's supposed to take X minutes from point A to point B and if they abide by that then that's it. End of story. NEXT!

 

As for the S83, it would still help make the travel time faster. Even if the S53s are coming on time, they're still not as fast as the S83 would be.

 

My point was if the S53s are holding to the schedule then it would be more difficult to push for the S83. The commute isn't terrible per se if the buses are on time but if they're late then the argument for the S83 becomes easier to make. Of course the S83 would be faster. It's just a question of how much faster.

 

 

 

Yes, I'm referring to cutting the runtime needed to get from point A to point B. Or in some cases, the runtime may need to be added or redistributed along the different portions of the route (for instance, if a bus always arrives early at one timepoint, but makes it on time to the next one, then just make it so that it is scheduled to arrive at the timepoint a few minutes earlier, but keep everything else the same)

 

I wouldn't bank on any changes. The cares about safety before anything else and quite frankly most B/Os have adjusted to the situation w/Bus Time. Some of them just pull out later. No big deal.

[SIR North Shore]

I actually think BusTime will lead to some very good service improvements for Staten Island that will probably end up costing the MTA less overall and giving us better service where it's needed. Just like via mentioned, along with helping riders, bustime helps the SI management as well and they can now understand how their system operates in one view. I also think bustime will help the s53 get a limited eventually. If the S53 ran every 12-15 minutes instead of 10 and the S83 every 15, the S53 would be split in half(local/limited) and the buses wouldn't be running so close to their leaders. A limited running every 15 minutes could work because of bustime. Put those new Xcelsiors & 3Gs to work! :tup:

[checkmatechamp13]

1) LOL... Well if you want your commute to be that fast then you don't use the local bus... I can't believe you're even saying that when you've constantly talked about how folks who live in the suburbs knew what they were getting when they moved there.

2) Who said that they time the connections??? The point was if you need to make connections you leave enough time to do so. With Bus Time I can make connections that I couldn't before because the buses come as scheduled. That's the point. Now stop complaining.

 

3) Yeah it's one of those "el vaso se rompió" moments... lol

 

4) Needlessly adding??? You just said the buses aren't running any slower, then you say they needlessly add to your travel time. If the buses are holding to the schedule, there is no adding to your travel time. The point is it's supposed to take X minutes from point A to point B and if they abide by that then that's it. End of story. NEXT!

 

5) My point was if the S53s are holding to the schedule then it would be more difficult to push for the S83. The commute isn't terrible per se if the buses are on time but if they're late then the argument for the S83 becomes easier to make. Of course the S83 would be faster. It's just a question of how much faster.

 

6) I wouldn't bank on any changes. The cares about safety before anything else and quite frankly most B/Os have adjusted to the situation w/Bus Time. Some of them just pull out later. No big deal.

 

1) But I also said there was a limit to how crappy the service should be. You shouldn't have to take a bus that arrives 20 minutes before the ferry departs just to make the connection.

 

Yeah, everybody who moved to the "suburbs" should've known what they were getting into. They still have the right to complain. It's just that they shouldn't expect the service to change just to suit their needs. But faster service benefits everybody, not just me.

 

For instance, the S89 I usually try to catch in the morning often arrives a few minutes late, but based on the traffic conditions I see, I assume he usually arrives in Bayonne right on time. However, the schedule should reflect that. When I get off at Walker Street, there's a Park-and-Ride across the street, and there's always somebody running for the bus. Now, some of them may be running late, but I think a lot of them are riders who intended to catch the next bus, but they see my bus and don't see the need to wait for the next bus. If the schedule were adjusted to reflect that, they could arrive a few minutes early so they don't have to run for the bus. Even though they're (presumably) not running late, there's no need for them to have to wait the extra time.

 

And for instance today, the S44 came a few minutes late, but he managed to catch up to the schedule and that allowed a few more people to make the bus. Crowded and fast: That's how I like my buses. :tup:

 

2) Like I said, even when I'm not in a hurry, there's still no reason to add to my travel time.

 

3) Or maybe it broke because a mild earthquake shook the table (like that one we had a few months ago): Something that's out of anybody's control.

 

4) They've been needlessly adding to the travel time all along. Nothing's changed. Even when I'm not in a hurry, it's still annoying.

 

And for your information, last year most of my delays were because of problems on the S46/S96, which don't have the issue of too much travel time being alloted: They just have problems in general. This year, I haven't been late too many times (there are times when I came in at the last minute, but very few times when I actually came late)

 

5) Still, if travel times can be improved at little to no cost, there's no reason not to do it.

 

6) I thought they care about money before everything else.

 

I actually think BusTime will lead to some very good service improvements for Staten Island that will probably end up costing the MTA less overall and giving us better service where it's needed. Just like via mentioned, along with helping riders, bustime helps the SI management as well and they can now understand how their system operates in one view. I also think bustime will help the s53 get a limited eventually. If the S53 ran every 12-15 minutes instead of 10 and the S83 every 15, the S53 would be split in half(local/limited) and the buses wouldn't be running so close to their leaders. A limited running every 15 minutes could work because of bustime. Put those new Xcelsiors & 3Gs to work! :tup:

 

Like I said, that's too optimistic. Too be cost-neutral, the limited would have to run every 20 minutes, and the local would run every 15 (maybe 12 if the S83 bypasses McClean Avenue and frees up more resources for additional service on the S53). At the heart of rush hour, when service is every 7-8 minutes, that's the only time when you'll see 15 minute S83 service.

[SIR North Shore]

Like I said, that's too optimistic. Too be cost-neutral, the limited would have to run every 20 minutes, and the local would run every 15 (maybe 12 if the S83 bypasses McClean Avenue and frees up more resources for additional service on the S53). At the heart of rush hour, when service is every 7-8 minutes, that's the only time when you'll see 15 minute S83 service.

 

I disagree, if the MTA provided the S83 service at reasonable service levels not above 15 minutes (it's connecting to the and not the ferry!), it would pay for itself from increased ridership.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1) But I also said there was a limit to how crappy the service should be. You shouldn't have to take a bus that arrives 20 minutes before the ferry departs just to make the connection.

 

LOL... But yet you think it's okay to reduce service on other lines and have folks wait upwards to an hour for a local bus?? I don't get your logic at all.

 

Yeah, everybody who moved to the "suburbs" should've known what they were getting into. They still have the right to complain. It's just that they shouldn't expect the service to change just to suit their needs. But faster service benefits everybody, not just me.

 

Well then I guess you just answered your question... That's the difference between me and you. You only advocate for service improvements that affect you. You should be arguing for improvements ISLAND wide because the truth is Staten Island is underserved transit wise. No question about it.

 

For instance, the S89 I usually try to catch in the morning often arrives a few minutes late, but based on the traffic conditions I see, I assume he usually arrives in Bayonne right on time. However, the schedule should reflect that. When I get off at Walker Street, there's a Park-and-Ride across the street, and there's always somebody running for the bus. Now, some of them may be running late, but I think a lot of them are riders who intended to catch the next bus, but they see my bus and don't see the need to wait for the next bus. If the schedule were adjusted to reflect that, they could arrive a few minutes early so they don't have to run for the bus. Even though they're (presumably) not running late, there's no need for them to have to wait the extra time.

 

Oh please.... People will always be running for the bus because people are lazy by nature. They'll wait until the last minute to catch the bus if they can.

 

2) Like I said, even when I'm not in a hurry, there's still no reason to add to my travel time.

 

Well if you care about your travel time so much you wouldn't have moved to Staten Island. Hell, I wanted a shorter commute without having to deal with the bloody local bus or car service, but still wanted to be in the suburbs so I moved to Riverdale. :cool: :tup:

 

3) Or maybe it broke because a mild earthquake shook the table (like that one we had a few months ago): Something that's out of anybody's control.

 

Very good. That was the whole point. lol

 

4) They've been needlessly adding to the travel time all along. Nothing's changed. Even when I'm not in a hurry, it's still annoying.

 

Oh just quit it already... As if the world is coming to an end because you had to stay on the bus an extra 5 minutes...

 

5) Still, if travel times can be improved at little to no cost, there's no reason not to do it.

 

The travel times are being improved already because the buses are arriving on time.

 

6) I thought they care about money before everything else. .

 

Safety=money saved...