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Better transit is up to the people (Bus only chat please)


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Actually not, actually.... that doesn't make it a definition....

 

You say this isn't worth arguing over... I agree, because the assertion presented is flat out false.

and it isn't about "what I consider" either....

 

No one's doubting that routes like the B103 & the B110 are in a class by itself...

 

Problem is, you are saying the 110 is an express bus "because that's what it is".... If that's the case, then you may as well dump the B103's & the 110's of the world in with the BM1's, X1's, QM1's, and BxM1's of the world.... those are express buses too....

 

 

I've already conceded that the B110 is not a true express bus, but I wouldn't put it in the same class as the B103 either. I don't think everyone uses the B103 to go to Downtown Brooklyn. Some passengers surely make their entire trip without entering Downtown Brooklyn. That would differ from the B110 where everyone using it is going between the two neighborhoods it serves and not just traveling within one of them. That would make it closer to an express type bus route than the B103.

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Actually, there is as Interested Rider reminds me with the case of the R8X which was officially an express bus that did not enter Manhattan. (Few people know that the 8X was operated to get NYCTA riders from their home in Staten Island to their offices at 370 Jay Street where the bus terminated. That's why there was only one round trip a day.)

 

It really isn't worth arguing over. So fine if you don't want to consider the B110 an express bus. But you can't really consider it a true local either. It really is in a class by itself unless you want to lump it with the B83 which uses a parkway for three minutes.*

 

If the term "limited stop" for buses was not invented because we already had express buses and there would have been too much confusion using the same term, then tell me why weren't express subways referred to as limited stop subways since they operate more like limited stop buses than they do express buses.

 

 

 

Just a few corrections. The MTA's Staten Island's report was not in response to Steve Dobrow's report and neither was the Southwest Brooklyn 1978 changes in response to Steve's Brooklyn report. For the record, the Department of City Planning had applied for and received $200,000 in federal money in 1973 to study transportation. When they hired me, since I had just completed my Masters on Brooklyn buses, they decided to use the money to study Brooklyn local buses. As we soon found out, there wasn't nearly enough finding to do that so I was asked to scale down the study, so I picked the 86th Street corridor. The people at the NYCTA told us to expand the study again just to delay and sabotage it. Not knowing that at the time we expanded it to Southwest Brooklyn.

 

After 4 years of stalling, they told us the study had grown too large after we were just following their suggestion. After a lawsuit was filed by an environmental group, they finally agreed to make some changes (about 25% of what was recommended) but were so pissed that they had to listen to another agency, they vowed it would never happen again and it didn't. They then applied for the remaining federal monies to study all the other boroughs and then wasted it by only making two changes in Staten Island as a result.

 

Steve's Staten Island report had nothing to do with the MTA's report unless they used some of the findings which I do not know is the case. Steve's Brooklyn report was not issued until 1981, if I correctly recall so the 1978 changes could not have been a response to it. While I greatly admired his knowledge, and also later worked with him, the Brooklyn report was not all that good. In some cases someone just looked at a map and drew lines where they thought it would be nice to have a bus route. One I remember was a through route along the length of Rockaway Parkway, although it would not have even been possible without an underpass beneath the LIRR tracks north of Foster Avenue.

 

He does deserve much credit, however to be the first one to publicly cite the need to revamp New York City's local bus routes and to call for bus transfers between all bus routes and to the subway.

 

If there is one (of many) thing(s) that I like about the forum, it is the depth of knowledge by the members. I was in error and I thank you for making the corrections to my comments.

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I've already conceded that the B110 is not a true express bus, but I wouldn't put it in the same class as the B103 either. I don't think everyone uses the B103 to go to Downtown Brooklyn. Some passengers surely make their entire trip without entering Downtown Brooklyn. That would differ from the B110 where everyone using it is going between the two neighborhoods it serves and not just traveling within one of them. That would make it closer to an express type bus route than the B103.

lol...

 

It's obvious that the 103 differs from the 110 (ridership habits of its respective riders included)... the two routes don't exactly have to be a perfect mirror of each other to be put in the general "class" (for discussion purposes) of an intraborough route that uses a highway to carry passengers between any two areas of that same borough... this is what makes em in a class by themselves; there aren't many routes in the system that fit that basic criteria, so to speak......

 

Whether the 110 is closer to an express bus route than the 103, still doesn't make it an express.....

(yes, your concession was noted, but I'm still puttin this out there.)

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The (B103) and (B110) are in a class of their own.

 

To keep the thread going:

 

Another thing about the MTA that confused me was when they had the QBx1 running from Flushing, Queens, to Co-Op City, the Bronx via the Whitestone Bridge. For a period of time, I thought this bus was an express route, but was confused as to why the bus always sent Orion V's as if it were a regular bus.

Now it's the Q50 and Bx23, and I don't understand how they run in Co-Op City. I've rode this bus (Q50) a couple times before, and I hate the fact that it has 30 minute headways to Queens, but only 10 minute headways to Co-Op City. So if you're standing at Pelham Bay Station waiting for this bus, you'll see 2-4 Co-Op City-bound buses. And they'll always be a idle Q50 on a side street next to the bus stop. Always wondered why...

 

-P.S.: Anybody got any info on why the QBx1 was the only Queens-Bronx route w/ the title QBx?

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Another thing about the MTA that confused me was when they had the QBx1 running from Flushing, Queens, to Co-Op City, the Bronx via the Whitestone Bridge. For a period of time, I thought this bus was an express route, but was confused as to why the bus always sent Orion V's as if it were a regular bus.

Now it's the Q50 and Bx23, and I don't understand how they run in Co-Op City. I've rode this bus (Q50) a couple times before, and I hate the fact that it has 30 minute headways to Queens, but only 10 minute headways to Co-Op City. So if you're standing at Pelham Bay Station waiting for this bus, you'll see 2-4 Co-Op City-bound buses. And they'll always be a idle Q50 on a side street next to the bus stop. Always wondered why...

 

-P.S.: Anybody got any info on why the QBx1 was the only Queens-Bronx route w/ the title QBx?

 

The Bx23...

 

Leaving its (sole) terminal, there are 3 general patterns that the Bx23 has...

One that serves all five sections, One that only skips section 5, and One that only serves section 5....

 

on weekdays:

1- The buses that only serve section 5 operate during the (weekday) rush...

2- The buses that skip section 5, run concurrent with the buses that only serve section 5....

3- Then there's the buses that serve all 5 sections.... there are two (sub) patterns here.... Out of PBP, you either have the buses that:

 

....serve section 1 first (meaning serving section 1, then 2,3,4, to 5)....

OR

....serve section 5 first (meaning serving section 5, then 4,3,2, to 1)....

 

each, before heading right back to PBP.

 

 

on weekends:

All buses serve all sections (see #3 listed above)

 

In all cases, the Bx23 does not terminate within co-op city.

 

 

 

The Q50...

The Q50 makes LTD stops only within co-op city, and runs along the "outskirts" of co-op before terminating in section 5....

All buses terminate in section 5....

--------

 

The Bx23 + the Q50 = the old QBx1.....

^ You can look at it like that, if it helps... At PBP, in reality, the "preference" is to take the Q50 over the Bx23 by those folks (even though the Q50 does not directly serve dreiser or asch).... Why folks have a tendency to jam onto 50's and let 23's pass, I honestly don't know...

 

 

As far as the off balanced ratio b/w buses towards co-op, compared to buses towards flushing.... that was a major problem w/ the Qbx1 (which, IMO, may have been a reason they decided to break up the old route).... The problem of long(er) waits for a flushing bound Q50 still exists though....

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