Veolia Operations in Washington, DC

[nostalgia]

Before I came home to New York, I lived in Prince George's County, MD; a suburb of Washington, DC. [since few people on the list are familar with the Washington, DC metropolitan area, I say I lived in the nation's capital.]

 

The county utilizes METRO, the regional bus service and its own bus system, The Bus The county changed operators to Veolia a few years ago. I wasn't a The Bus customer because I drove to work in suburban Maryland but took the MARC commuter train when I changed jobs to Washington, DC.

 

There were very few complaints against Veolia in the press. The biggest news is that the operators went on strike for a few weeks for better benefits. I'm sure Veolia's salaries are less than Metro's salaries. Neighboring Montgomery County created Ride On to be operated by county employees at lower salaries.

 

With all the money the County claims as savings in switching to Veolia, this implies Veolia salaries are less than MTA. [Of course, part of the MTA payment was for overhead and nobody likes to pay overhead.]

[Burrstone]

With all the money the County claims as savings in switching to Veolia, this implies Veolia salaries are less than MTA. [Of course, part of the MTA payment was for overhead and nobody likes to pay overhead.]

 

In this last paragraph are you talking about Prince George's County and the Maryland/DC MTA or about Nassau County and the MTA?

 

In any event it doesn't matter what Veolia pays anywhere in world, Veolia pays NICE operators exactly what the MTA paid them, NOT less as many people on this speculated that they would be making less under Veolia.

 

The same cannot be said about the private operator who runs part of Suffolk County's bus system. The operator underbid a competitor in located in Babylon, and it is said the operators who came over from the operator that outbid the competition are being paid less.

 

One poster even reported that EBT had drivers who normally drove school buses on the runs they inherited who got lost.

 

There was such a firestorm about Veolia and speculation about what they might do, and when things are actually going pretty well people look for any reason to claim NICE service is falling apart like buses being late or 10 year old buses breaking down.

 

While we hear this on this forum day in day out we have a small company doing exactly what people said Veolia would do: pay current drivers less and have inexperienced drivers on the routes (who apparently got lost). Could you imagine the NICE/Veolia bashing on here if they did that? I don't get why people continue to look for any reason to assume NICE service is falling apart or point out what is going with another Veolia operation (not here) and ignore what a smaller company IS doing right next door?

[mac5689]

[quote name=Burrstone;523761

The same cannot be said about the private operator who runs part of Suffolk County's bus system. The operator underbid a competitor in located in Babylon' date=' and it is said the operators who came over from the operator that outbid the competition are being paid less.

 

One poster even reported that EBT had drivers who normally drove school buses on the runs they inherited who got lost.

 

I didn't hear that drivers that came over from ICMC are getting paid less.

 

I know Ex CBS drivers that were hired by Suffolk Bus Corp were getting paid less, but that was because the Ex CBS didn't get to keep their seniority and there for are getting paid the same if they were just another Newbie. (a point some Ex CBS drivers don't like)

 

I'm probably the one who reported about EBT using School Bus Drivers, now I don't have details about how or why that happen. It could have been that EBT didn't hire many ICMC drivers at the time (6 ICMC drivers where hired by Suffolk Bus Corp, one was said to have not been hired by EBT) or if they have some type of deal like Suffolk Bus has were drivers start out driving School Buses and then drive Transit buses (Suffolk Bus Drivers normally start out driving School Buses for Suffolk Transportation Service then go to Para Transit before doing Transit. The 29 drivers hired from CBS and 6 from Inter County didn't have to go that route)

[Burrstone]

Posted in this thread: SCT pay compared to NICE pay

I don't know specifics but the 29 Ex CBS and 6 Ex ICMC drivers hired by Suffolk Bus Corp did not retain their seniority when the were hired by SBC. Which means a pay cut though like I said I don't know specifics.

 

Just the fact that 35 drivers (and I would love to know what percentage that was) didn't retain their seniority under the new operator while they are doing the same job says a lot. Could you imagine if Veolia did this or gave new drivers hired bt Veolia before 1/1/12 seniority before drivers who became Veolia employees on the 1st?

 

All I'm saying is that a lot of negative "Veolia is going to do this (or not do this)" and it turned out not one of them was true, while it seems EBT is doing exactly what people were scrutinizing Veolia for, and nobody seems to care.

 

BTW, I'd love to know any details on the SCT deal and how everything went down, it's very interesting to me.

 

If you find out any more about, please post it in this thread SCT pay compared to NICE pay

[Burrstone]

Posted in this thread: SCT pay compared to NICE pay

I don't know specifics but the 29 Ex CBS and 6 Ex ICMC drivers hired by Suffolk Bus Corp did not retain their seniority when the were hired by SBC. Which means a pay cut though like I said I don't know specifics.

 

Just the fact that 35 drivers (and I would love to know what percentage that was) didn't retain their seniority under the new operator while they are doing the same job says a lot. Could you imagine if Veolia did this or gave new drivers hired bt Veolia before 1/1/12 seniority before drivers who became Veolia employees on the 1st?

 

All I'm saying is that a lot of negative "Veolia is going to do this (or not do this)" was said and it turned out that not any of it was true, while it seems EBT is doing exactly what people were scrutinizing Veolia for, and nobody seems to care.

 

BTW, I'd love to know any details on the SCT deal and how everything went down, it's very interesting to me.

 

If you find out any more about, please post it in this thread SCT pay compared to NICE pay

[PinePower]

Yeah alot of those Suffolk Drivers really got screwed. I'm pretty sure Veolia is a much better company than EBT, isn't EBT the one that fired that bus driver who stopped his bus to save a cop from a burning car?

I'd expect EBT to put school bus drivers on line routes too. Remember the lovely shape of those hand me downs EBT gave to CBS?

Really sucks Inter-County is gone and is now operated by a school bus company. And they dont hide it, the logo on the side of the uniform at EBT is a school bus. I certainly feel for the riders of those former ICMC routes, they are gonna have to suffer with EBT...

I'd have rather Suffolk Bus got those routes as well. I'm sure they'd have had the room too, I dont see how EBT is fitting all the buses at their Copaigue yard, I bet they are parking them on the street knowing them.

[qjtransitmaster]

Before I came home to New York, I lived in Prince George's County, MD; a suburb of Washington, DC. [since few people on the list are familar with the Washington, DC metropolitan area, I say I lived in the nation's capital.]

 

The county utilizes METRO, the regional bus service and its own bus system, The Bus The county changed operators to Veolia a few years ago. I wasn't a The Bus customer because I drove to work in suburban Maryland but took the MARC commuter train when I changed jobs to Washington, DC.

 

There were very few complaints against Veolia in the press. The biggest news is that the operators went on strike for a few weeks for better benefits. I'm sure Veolia's salaries are less than Metro's salaries. Neighboring Montgomery County created Ride On to be operated by county employees at lower salaries.

 

With all the money the County claims as savings in switching to Veolia, this implies Veolia salaries are less than MTA. [Of course, part of the MTA payment was for overhead and nobody likes to pay overhead.]

Funny you mention the Bus of prince georges county cause I posted a thread detailing my experiences riding their routes and the Ride-on lines in the northeast regional thread.

[Burrstone]

Yeah alot of those Suffolk Drivers really got screwed. I'm pretty sure Veolia is a much better company than EBT, isn't EBT the one that fired that bus driver who stopped his bus to save a cop from a burning car?

 

Wow really?

 

I'd expect EBT to put school bus drivers on line routes too. Remember the lovely shape of those hand me downs EBT gave to CBS?

 

LOL this is not new, I've been on an S1 when the driver was FLYING down rt 110 in Farmingdale, I overheard the driver telling someone that she had to make up time because she gets held up in Huntington and is frequently late for her school bus run. The person she was talking to said "you drive a school bus too?" She told him that she does a split shift, does the S1, goes back to the yard gets a school bus does that one, swings, comes back in the afternoon does the school bus run, goes back top the yard and gets a transit bus to do the S1 for evening/late afternoon rush.... OUCH! She was complaining about the swing and how she doesn't like getting bitched at if she gets back late to do her school bus run. I was flabbergasted, I couldn't she would allow her company to do both and then bitch at her because she was late because she was stuck in traffic on 110... Right there I knew there was something wrong with EBT.

 

 

Really sucks Inter-County is gone and is now operated by a school bus company. And they dont hide it, the logo on the side of the uniform at EBT is a school bus. I certainly feel for the riders of those former ICMC routes, they are gonna have to suffer with EBT...

 

EBT is owned by a fairly large company, the TransGroup, they even own a company that makes mini school buses and have developed a prototype electric bus.

 

I wonder why they operate the transit buses under "the transgroup" or form a company (even if it is located in the place as EBT) for the transit buses.

 

Speaking of the uniforms, I have seen MANY EBT drivers not in uniform, wearing any color sweatshirt, or jacket, they want... It doesn't look very professional and it seems like I'm noticing more and more drivers wearing whatever they want lately, it really does look odd when you pass a transit bus and see a driver wearing a red hoodie with a matching red baseball cap.

 

Last school year the transportation director of the Massapequa School District (they contract out school bus service to EBT and Atlantic Express) praised Atlantic Express drivers at a meeting and said they looked really "sharp" in their uniforms and was impressed that every driver was always in uniform and that Atlantic required new drivers to wear a white shirt if they didn't have a uniform shirt.

 

After that I noticed that EBT drivers had nice new light blue polo shirts as a uniform for the school bus drivers. I personally feel it looks great when a school bus company has a uniform, it makes the operation look more, well, uniform. That only lasted a couple of months into the school year as the drivers slowly started to wear whatever they wanted again.

 

I'd have rather Suffolk Bus got those routes as well. I'm sure they'd have had the room too, I dont see how EBT is fitting all the buses at their Copaigue yard, I bet they are parking them on the street knowing them.

 

I wondered that as well, I drove past their lot on New Years day thinking I'd see a bunch of buses overflowing out of the lot. Nothing. I drove past last Sunday wondering what I would see considering there is no service on Sundays, it seemed like they didn't have any more transit buses parked in the lot than before they got the contract. I'm wondering if they are parking these buses somewhere else?

[mac5689]

Posted in this thread: SCT pay compared to NICE pay

 

 

Just the fact that 35 drivers (and I would love to know what percentage that was) didn't retain their seniority under the new operator while they are doing the same job says a lot. Could you imagine if Veolia did this or gave new drivers hired bt Veolia before 1/1/12 seniority before drivers who became Veolia employees on the 1st?

 

All I'm saying is that a lot of negative "Veolia is going to do this (or not do this)" was said and it turned out that not any of it was true, while it seems EBT is doing exactly what people were scrutinizing Veolia for, and nobody seems to care.

 

BTW, I'd love to know any details on the SCT deal and how everything went down, it's very interesting to me.

 

If you find out any more about, please post it in this thread SCT pay compared to NICE pay

 

 

Suffolk County wanted to save money due to a gap of a few million dollars, The DPW which heads SCT is nearly underfunded and understaffed.

 

They threw all the Routes in Western Suffolk (EBT and Inter County) routes together so they would have one operator there. They also did the same with the routes in Eastern Suffolk (Sunrise Coach and Hampton Jitney's routes) though Sunrise and HJ joined up and created a company called Twin Forks Transit which won the bid. Sunrise Coach and HJ are still operating the routes as sub contractors to Twin Forks Transit.

 

Suffolk Bus and CBS's routes were left as they were. so one of three things happen. 1) Suffolk Bus used the right to competitively bid on routes and bid on all CBS's routes, or 2) the CBS owners sold the company to Suffolk Bus or 3) CBS didn't bid on the routes and Suffolk Bus was awarded them.

 

All the companies have diffrent unions. Suffolk Bus has TWU 252, CBS had as explained to me "some shitty union, and Inter County had a Teamsters union (though not the same as Sunrise Coach)

 

 

 

Yeah alot of those Suffolk Drivers really got screwed. I'm pretty sure Veolia is a much better company than EBT, isn't EBT the one that fired that bus driver who stopped his bus to save a cop from a burning car?

I'd expect EBT to put school bus drivers on line routes too. Remember the lovely shape of those hand me downs EBT gave to CBS?

Really sucks Inter-County is gone and is now operated by a school bus company. And they dont hide it, the logo on the side of the uniform at EBT is a school bus. I certainly feel for the riders of those former ICMC routes, they are gonna have to suffer with EBT...

I'd have rather Suffolk Bus got those routes as well. I'm sure they'd have had the room too, I dont see how EBT is fitting all the buses at their Copaigue yard, I bet they are parking them on the street knowing them.

 

The Mini bus driver EBT had fired stopped and picked up three NCPD detectives whose car got stuck in a flooded street while there were students on the bus. EBT later rehired him however.

 

I heard that EBT's yard is big enough to support extra Transit buses, I know they have the main yard with the shops in it and a yard across the street from that. They also have yard that they use for mini buses on the street behind the yard which is across the street from Baunnman & Sons Copaigue yard.

 

LOL this is not new, I've been on an S1 when the driver was FLYING down rt 110 in Farmingdale, I overheard the driver telling someone that she had to make up time because she gets held up in Huntington and is frequently late for her school bus run. The person she was talking to said "you drive a school bus too?" She told him that she does a split shift, does the S1, goes back to the yard gets a school bus does that one, swings, comes back in the afternoon does the school bus run, goes back top the yard and gets a transit bus to do the S1 for evening/late afternoon rush.... OUCH! She was complaining about the swing and how she doesn't like getting bitched at if she gets back late to do her school bus run. I was flabbergasted, I couldn't she would allow her company to do both and then bitch at her because she was late because she was stuck in traffic on 110... Right there I knew there was something wrong with EBT.

 

Suffolk Bus allows their drivers who want to to drive Mini buses for Suffolk Transportation Service, I had three such drivers on my afternoon mini bus run back when I was in Middle School. (I never found out what happen to the regular driver as I joined the route near the end of the year)

 

Two said they drove the 6A and the third I saw years later doing the S61.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Speaking of the uniforms, I have seen MANY EBT drivers not in uniform, wearing any color sweatshirt, or jacket, they want... It doesn't look very professional and it seems like I'm noticing more and more drivers wearing whatever they want lately, it really does look odd when you pass a transit bus and see a driver wearing a red hoodie with a matching red baseball cap.

 

I believe Suffolk Transit's uniform is a blue shirt and a Vest (though not many drivers were a vest). I remember back in the 90's CBS's driver wore Green Shirts and some of Suffolk Bus drivers wore a blue shirt and a vest.

 

Last school year the transportation director of the Massapequa School District (they contract out school bus service to EBT and Atlantic Express) praised Atlantic Express drivers at a meeting and said they looked really "sharp" in their uniforms and was impressed that every driver was always in uniform and that Atlantic required new drivers to wear a white shirt if they didn't have a uniform shirt.

 

Atlantic Express mandating uniforms must be a new thing, When I rode Atlantic Express buses which was run out of an Amboy bus yard in the 90's the drivers never wore a uniform.

[Burrstone]

Yes, Atlantic Express is big on uniforms, at least out here on the Island. If you get out here you'll see Raybern (Farmingdale, North Amityville border), K Corr (Farmingdale), and Courtesy Bus (Oceanside) drivers all in uniform. I cannot speak about Amboy Bus, because I don't know, but I'd assume it is the same for them as I was you don't want to be caught out of uniform and you really don't want to have "corporate" catch you out of unoform.

 

From the AE website: (looking sharp)

 

 

If you're into school buses and school bus operators take the LIRR to Babylon and the N19 to Freeport on a weekday afternoon or early morning, you will not be disappointed, you'll see EBT, Raybern, (some) K Corr, and Courtesy down Merrick Rd...

[Burrstone]

Speaking of Atlantic Express, is anyone else surprised they didn't try to get into the transit game out here on the island by bidding in Nassau along with the other three proposals, and bidding on some of the SCT work?

[Orion VII 4 Life]

I completely understand why AE would give transit / commuter B/Os uniforms, but school bus drivers? The school bus companies bigger than AE that I have had experience with (First Student and Durham) don't make the drivers west uniforms, unless you consider the green construction vest First gives the drivers a "uniform", and they all dress like normal civilians and even wear jeans. I believe First Transit does issue uniforms though, since I've driven past a few Rutgers shuttles and the B/Os appeared to be in uniform.

[mac5689]

Yes, Atlantic Express is big on uniforms, at least out here on the Island. If you get out here you'll see Raybern (Farmingdale, North Amityville border), K Corr (Farmingdale), and Courtesy Bus (Oceanside) drivers all in uniform. I cannot speak about Amboy Bus, because I don't know, but I'd assume it is the same for them as I was you don't want to be caught out of uniform and you really don't want to have "corporate" catch you out of unoform.

 

From the AE website: (looking sharp)

 

 

If you're into school buses and school bus operators take the LIRR to Babylon and the N19 to Freeport on a weekday afternoon or early morning, you will not be disappointed, you'll see EBT, Raybern, (some) K Corr, and Courtesy down Merrick Rd...

 

Like I said it maybe a new thing, them mandating that school bus drivers wear uniforms.

 

Also back in 2010 I had dozens of Atlantic Express drivers (operating out of a different Amboy Bus yard) on their last school runs and heading back to the yard and none of them were wearing the Atlantic Express uniform.

[nostalgia]

LOL this is not new, I've been on an S1 when the driver was FLYING down rt 110 in Farmingdale, I overheard the driver telling someone that she had to make up time because she gets held up in Huntington and is frequently late for her school bus run. The person she was talking to said "you drive a school bus too?" She told him that she does a split shift, does the S1, goes back to the yard gets a school bus does that one, swings, comes back in the afternoon does the school bus run, goes back top the yard and gets a transit bus to do the S1 for evening/late afternoon rush.... OUCH!

********************************************************

The owner of Mid-Island Transit also owned Crestwood Bus Service, which operated school buses for the Levittown School System. Unlike the above example, Mid-Island buses were used on school trips. The destination read School Bus with black letters on a yellow background. The buses had a stop light mounted on the front and rear windows that flashed red like the lights on a school bus.

 

Not only were Mid-Island buses used, the high school was a relief point as well.

[Burrstone]

The owner of Mid-Island Transit also owned Crestwood Bus Service, which operated school buses for the Levittown School System. Unlike the above example, Mid-Island buses were used on school trips. The destination read School Bus with black letters on a yellow background. The buses had a stop light mounted on the front and rear windows that flashed red like the lights on a school bus.

 

Not only were Mid-Island buses used, the high school was a relief point as well.

 

I would love to see a pic of that!

[N6 Limited]

PAll I'm saying is that a lot of negative "Veolia is going to do this (or not do this)" was said and it turned out that not any of it was true, while it seems EBT is doing exactly what people were scrutinizing Veolia for, and nobody seems to care.

 

Exactly

[mac5689]

 

All I'm saying is that a lot of negative "Veolia is going to do this (or not do this)" and it turned out not one of them was true, while it seems EBT is doing exactly what people were scrutinizing Veolia for, and nobody seems to care.

 

 

Nobody is making a stink about EBT because they have been operating for Suffolk since SCT's inception (Although under a different name at first), so their practices have probably been the same since and people who ride routes and buses operated by them are use to them. Veolia on the other hand had never operated anything in Nassau which was/is why people were majorly worried about what would happen when they started operating Nassau's routes.

 

People normally don't like change. The MTA ran Nassau buses for a long time, and people got use to how they ran things (even though people complained and thought that they weren't that good) so since no one knew how Veolia would run things they were seen as a bad guy because everyone thought that they would do things totally different.

 

I'd have rather Suffolk Bus got those routes as well. I'm sure they'd have had the room too

 

I don't think Suffolk Bus Corp has the room for anymore routes currently. From what I'm lead to believe the Ronkonkoma yard is pretty maxed out with the 53 transit buses and unknown number of Para-Transit buses. Their Bay Shore yard is probably maxed out as well, between the 28 or so Transit buses and unknown number of Para Transit buses.

[Burrstone]

You can defend it anyway you want, it comes down to Veolia not doing anything people feared Veolia would do while EBT did just about about everything Veolia would be accused of doing. The fact that they've been operating out in Suffolk County for decades makes it ok. lol Really? I wonder how the drivers working in Suffolk County who got screwed in this deal feel about that?

[mac5689]

unless you consider the green construction vest First gives the drivers a "uniform", and they all dress like normal civilians and even wear jeans.

 

I never understood why First Student have the drivers wear those safety vests, though they mostly war them while transporting students, though some don't wear them at all.

 

A driver was run over by a snow plow in a First Student yard a few years ago, it was never said weather the driver was wearing a safety vest at the time or not, the First Student yard were this happen is represented by TWU 252.

 

You can defend it anyway you want, it comes down to Veolia not doing anything people feared Veolia would do while EBT did just about about everything Veolia would be accused of doing. The fact that they've been operating out in Suffolk County for decades makes it ok. lol Really? I wonder how the drivers working in Suffolk County who got screwed in this deal feel about that?

 

I'm not defending EBT, I'm just stating since they have been around for a long time that riders may look the other way to somethings, that they may not when someone new comes along. Its been shown twice when School Districts out here in Suffolk decided to switch School Bus Providers. (once by residents, and the other time by the company that was losing the contract)

 

I mean SUNY Stony Brook riders back in the mid 70's, wanted to keep a off campus bus run by Stony Brook rather then have to deal with Coram Bus Service because of the way Coram Drivers were at the time. (This may have been the start of Coram Bus Service's Financial difficulties)

[Burrstone]

I never understood why First Student have the drivers wear those safety vests, though they mostly war them while transporting students, though some don't wear them at all.

 

A driver was run over by a snow plow in a First Student yard a few years ago, it was never said weather the driver was wearing a safety vest at the time or not, the First Student yard were this happen is represented by TWU 252.

 

 

Really? You don't understand why? You kind of eluded to it in your post... One of the most dangerous times for school bus drivers is in the morning in the yard. So many buses leaving at the same time when it is still kind of dark, while other drivers are walking to their buses. Don't quote me on it but when I was driving a school bus I think I was told the statistic was something like you are more likely to die from a co-worker accidentally running you over in the yard because they didn't see you than dying in any other type accident that you could be involved in that day.

 

I never heard about the driver getting run over by the snow plow, that's terrible, like you said I have no idea if they were wearing a vest, if they were I certainly don't think it's an argument that the vests are ineffective.

[mac5689]

Really? You don't understand why? You kind of eluded to it in your post... One of the most dangerous times for school bus drivers is in the morning in the yard. So many buses leaving at the same time when it is still kind of dark, while other drivers are walking to their buses. Don't quote me on it but when I was driving a school bus I think I was told the statistic was something like you are more likely to die from a co-worker accidentally running you over in the yard because they didn't see you than dying in any other type accident that you could be involved in that day.

 

I never heard about the driver getting run over by the snow plow, that's terrible, like you said I have no idea if they were wearing a vest, if they were I certainly don't think it's an argument that the vests are ineffective.

 

Actually the driver was back over (the truck was going in reverse) and it was snowing at the time.

 

I didn't mean my comment to mean that I thought the vest were ineffective, I mean certainly they are good during the early morning and evening hours.

[PinePower]

Nobody is making a stink about EBT because they have been operating for Suffolk since SCT's inception (Although under a different name at first), so their practices have probably been the same since and people who ride routes and buses operated by them are use to them. Veolia on the other hand had never operated anything in Nassau which was/is why people were majorly worried about what would happen when they started operating Nassau's routes.

 

People normally don't like change. The MTA ran Nassau buses for a long time, and people got use to how they ran things (even though people complained and thought that they weren't that good) so since no one knew how Veolia would run things they were seen as a bad guy because everyone thought that they would do things totally different.

 

 

 

I don't think Suffolk Bus Corp has the room for anymore routes currently. From what I'm lead to believe the Ronkonkoma yard is pretty maxed out with the 53 transit buses and unknown number of Para-Transit buses. Their Bay Shore yard is probably maxed out as well, between the 28 or so Transit buses and unknown number of Para Transit buses.

 

I forgot to tell you that I overheard Suffolk Bus Corp was going to have all the former CBS Lines routes at their Coram Yard. They are supposedly making improvements in the yard. Makes sense since they already have a yard there and the schedules are designed for the yard in Coram. It'll definately reduce deadhead time.