B35 via Church Posted February 16, 2012 Share #26 Posted February 16, 2012 I'm not going to continue this childish bickering with you. The fact remains your opinion was nothing more than an assumption. You're assumption that Veolia will force drivers to work 12+ hour days with little or no breaks like luckybus (or whatever the name is) has been disproven by facts and logic. The end. yeah right.... whatever makes you feel better.... lmao @ this weak BS... yeah, it's only childish when you can't finish what you started.... Too damn bad. Anyone can go back & read all my posts in this topic (whether they agree or disagree) & conclude that they were assumptive opinions... None of which I ever denied as being as such.... So you didn't disprove anything "by facts & logic"... ....which this exchange was never really about anyway.... It was nothing more than you having a problem with anyone that puts anything involving veolia in a negative light... Hence your disingenuous question which started this exchange in the first place, like you were really interested with why I felt the way I did in that OP of mine about the drivers.... Using the snippet "big bad veolia" in your commentary the way you did, easily gave that away.... ....and it aint just me you've projected such opinions towards anyone that's anti-veolia in this section of the forum.... The proof is in the pudding, and those that frequent this section enough have seen it enough out of you.... but I digress..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted February 16, 2012 Share #27 Posted February 16, 2012 In its form n51 has no chance but a modification can save it ...and what type of modification is that? (please don't suggest sending it to jones beach, like you did w/ the 73/74) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrstone Posted February 16, 2012 Share #28 Posted February 16, 2012 You continue on with your petty bickering while I continue to dismiss your assumptions with facts and logic. Delusional if you think the leftover drivers would pull in "lots of money" for working OT under veolia/NICE, if they offered OT.....That's even assuming they'd pay them the time & a half rate anyway.... The New York State Minimum Wage Orders contain the State’s overtime requirements. These requirements are in addition to those required by federal law, including the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA). Most employees must receive overtime pay at the rate of 1½ times their regular rate of pay for all hours worked over 40 in a workweek. You accuse me of not being able to finish what I've started, in reality it looks like I'm doing a pretty good job of finishing what I've started (disproving your biased assumptions with facts and logic). Instead of showing anyway your opinions/assumptions might be credible after I debunk them you just resort back to the childish bickering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted February 16, 2012 Share #29 Posted February 16, 2012 ...and what type of modification is that? (please don't suggest sending it to jones beach, like you did w/ the 73/74) LOL, most of his modifications are outrageous and will never happen anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted February 16, 2012 Share #30 Posted February 16, 2012 You continue on with your petty bickering while I continue to dismiss your assumptions with facts and logic. You accuse me of not being able to finish what I've started, in reality it looks like I'm doing a pretty good job of finishing what I've started (disproving your biased assumptions with facts and logic). Instead of showing anyway your opinions/assumptions might be credible after I debunk them you just resort back to the childish bickering. No, what you attempted to start is mudslinging when I wasn't succumbing to anything you had to say... everything after that 1st paragraph of post #20 of yours in this thread is evident of that.... in the middle of it all, you tried to make like I was making up lies, in basis of my opinion... that didn't work either.... Those futile attempts of yours failed, then all of a sudden everything I said thereafter became "childish bickering" with your attempt to bow out of this in the process... GTFO of here..... ....and what was the purpose of posting that snippet off the NY gov. site for? I know what the overtime rate is - I was the one that brought it up !..... furthermore, if I believe Veolia is this immoral, underhanded, money-hungry company that doesn't play by the rules (which I do), how is posting that supposed to change my opinion of them...... Further trying to illustrate that Veolia aint what it's predicated in the media out to be..... I'm not interested in wanting to see things your way, when it comes to that..... Disagreeing is one thing, but you don't get credit for "debunking" assumptions/opinions/predictions, for one, and two, especially by posting facts that were never disputed... LOL, most of his modifications are outrageous and will never happen anyway. ..and no realistic justification for them whatsoever. Although to his credit, he has eased up on the wild ideas as of late.... But still though, the ones he has/does suggest (for suburban areas) are made under the notion that it'll get enough ppl. out of their cars.... Failing to realize or consider the current riders of said routes..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrstone Posted February 16, 2012 Share #31 Posted February 16, 2012 Haha ok, whatever you say. The fact is I proved you wrong many times over in this thread, and it seems you are having a hard time dealing with it. I'm not trying to change your opinion, I could care less about changing your opinion. As I said my point was to disprove the crazy assumptions you posted about making operators work 12+ hours, I used facts and logic to show that would not benefit Veolia in anyway shape or form. I posted the snippet from NYS regarding time and half because you made a comment along the lines of if Veolia would even pay them time and a half. Yes, with NYS law and the union, Veolia would have to pay drivers time and a half... ie making drivers work 12+ hour shifts would not benefit Veolia/NICE in anyway. I have posted nothing but facts and logic to contradict the assumptions/opinions you have presented on this. All you do is respond with petty arguments, no facts, no other basis to support your opinions/assumptions after I debunk them. That is where that comes from... I have continually proven that your assumption/opinion on this invalid, but you argue with nothing valid and you accuse me of mud slinging? Face it, you have been proven wrong and you act as if the fact of just arguing with nothing valid, just the nature of arguing will win an argument. You got nothing... But argue away about nothing more than your empty argument, you can try to twist it anyway you want, as you said the proof is in the pudding, I have debunked your assumption, and all you come back with is the childish way of arguing of whoever yells the loudest wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Up Front Posted February 16, 2012 Share #32 Posted February 16, 2012 If you think you've won, Burrstone, google what happens when you win an internet argument... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted February 16, 2012 Share #33 Posted February 16, 2012 ...and what type of modification is that? (please don't suggest sending it to jones beach, like you did w/ the 73/74) NO that is NOT it not even close but it's based off of observations of DH behavior which can actually turn into revenue service that can generate ridership it addresses a current gap in service that N20/21 can't fill. LOL, most of his modifications are outrageous and will never happen anyway. Not even close cause you know nothing about any of my modifications. Ones I suggested in public but not here fully ppl loved em and I got cheers when I spoke at the LIB MTA meeting. One such modification is area manipulation of bellmore bus service around the area. First N45 gets canned then replaced partially by select N6 or N6 LTD runs via greenwich road then park ave then all N45 stops to bellmore. This creates another faster route to hempstead. Then to render another line out the way which is get N50 out of bellmore and make it more direct the bellmore ave segment is backtracking therefore ineffective BUT there is a gap in service from bellmore to the Nassau hub but also down 10 mins or 13 at the most N50's terminus is from N24's terminal. Manipulation of area part 2 enhance service to nassau hub area on N24 weekdays then Extend N24 down bellmore ave replacing N50 segment BUT acting like an industrial shuttle from the LIRR bellmore station to nassau hub making a transit trip practical. N24 gains ridership BUT this is ONLY rush hour and Limited off-peak due to the nature of the riders this targets. Now N46 is almost duplicitous to retain usefulness reroutes to roosevelt field or mineola LIRR via Eisenhower park and NCC relieving over crowding on other buses there and getting a cut of student ridership. The cost of the reroute is cost neutral for N46 since the mileage is almost the same. Ridership will increase since the demographics of the area the N46 serves are more likely to go to roosevelt field rather than hempstead. The N6 select trips would gain additional revenue from former N45 riders and can be better coordinated with LIRR on that segment like a crosstown costing very little since N6 costs little to operate anyway. Also the N24 would be like a double standard type of route shuffling ppl to jobs in the hub areas and business parks that are currently disconnected. Extra run-time is minimal short turns may run depending on reliability or some trips become N24L to cut runtime. End result increased ridership. I won't explain the N50 till later. Nor the N51 keep guessing ppl. I will attend one of the meetings you will know then. Till then you won't be able to make sense of it all anyway but knowing you maybe pinepower or B35 will get it. I will tell what I haven't told you then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted February 16, 2012 Share #34 Posted February 16, 2012 Haha ok, whatever you say. The fact is I proved you wrong many times over in this thread, and it seems you are having a hard time dealing with it. I'm not trying to change your opinion, I could care less about changing your opinion. As I said my point was to disprove the crazy assumptions you posted about making operators work 12+ hours, I used facts and logic to show that would not benefit Veolia in anyway shape or form. I posted the snippet from NYS regarding time and half because you made a comment along the lines of if Veolia would even pay them time and a half. Yes, with NYS law and the union, Veolia would have to pay drivers time and a half... ie making drivers work 12+ hour shifts would not benefit Veolia/NICE in anyway. I have posted nothing but facts and logic to contradict the assumptions/opinions you have presented on this. All you do is respond with petty arguments, no facts, no other basis to support your opinions/assumptions after I debunk them. That is where that comes from... I have continually proven that your assumption/opinion on this invalid, but you argue with nothing valid and you accuse me of mud slinging? Face it, you have been proven wrong and you act as if the fact of just arguing with nothing valid, just the nature of arguing will win an argument. You got nothing... But argue away about nothing more than your empty argument, you can try to twist it anyway you want, as you said the proof is in the pudding, I have debunked your assumption, and all you come back with is the childish way of arguing of whoever yells the loudest wins. As a result you gain my utmost respect and admiration you are the master of LI I bow to you. :tup::tup::tup::tup::tup: Ohh not gonna get involved with you or B35 you 2 work that out. quote"Although to his credit, he has eased up on the wild ideas as of late.... But still though, the ones he has/does suggest (for suburban areas) are made under the notion that it'll get enough ppl. out of their cars.... Failing to realize or consider the current riders of said routes....." @ B35 The thing is the current riders weren't high enough to justify keeping their current forms in some cases based on riding said routes. That was what shaped and perfected some of my ideas which is why you say I eased up on the wild ideas. I eliminated some elements from my LI NICE plan to make em more practical and inline with current travel patterns and efficiency in mind while reducing DH runs significantly without disrupting service you will hear me on the 23rd if you come I guarantee all will soon make sense eventually. The wild ideas was what got me scolded by an NJT planner earlier last year. So I decided to reevaluate and ride to confirm and invalidate theories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted February 16, 2012 Share #35 Posted February 16, 2012 Haha ok, whatever you say. The fact is I proved you wrong many times over in this thread, and it seems you are having a hard time dealing with it. I'm not trying to change your opinion, I could care less about changing your opinion. As I said my point was to disprove the crazy assumptions you posted about making operators work 12+ hours, I used facts and logic to show that would not benefit Veolia in anyway shape or form. I posted the snippet from NYS regarding time and half because you made a comment along the lines of if Veolia would even pay them time and a half. Yes, with NYS law and the union, Veolia would have to pay drivers time and a half... ie making drivers work 12+ hour shifts would not benefit Veolia/NICE in anyway. I have posted nothing but facts and logic to contradict the assumptions/opinions you have presented on this. All you do is respond with petty arguments, no facts, no other basis to support your opinions/assumptions after I debunk them. That is where that comes from... I have continually proven that your assumption/opinion on this invalid, but you argue with nothing valid and you accuse me of mud slinging? Face it, you have been proven wrong and you act as if the fact of just arguing with nothing valid, just the nature of arguing will win an argument. You got nothing... But argue away about nothing more than your empty argument, you can try to twist it anyway you want, as you said the proof is in the pudding, I have debunked your assumption, and all you come back with is the childish way of arguing of whoever yells the loudest wins. Yes, mudslinging.... Who the hell called you pathetic, before you mentioned anything about being pathetic.... I haven't been proven wrong because there was nothing to be proven wrong to begin with... Your opinion of my original assumption as being invalid doesn't quantify as being correct..... Throughout this whole back & forth, you've been continually stuck on that notion to make yourself feel like you've somehow got the upper hand in this exchange.... The main one in here talking about debunking & proving & disproving someone.... and you have the absolute gall to talk to me about winning an argument.... yeah, okay dude.... I wasn't, and still not tryna win a damn thing; you had a problem with my assumption, and it all went downhill from there.... And that still stems from you being pro-Veolia & me being anti-Veolia.... That sums up this whole exchange.... Not whether who the hell was right or wrong.... Dismiss my commentary as empty arguments all you like... Regardless if you wanna sit there & anoint yourself as this most fact posting person by passing off your opinions as facts.... By hook or by crook, You will realize that your opinion is no more important than anyone else's on here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrstone Posted February 16, 2012 Share #36 Posted February 16, 2012 I haven't been proven wrong because there was nothing to be proven wrong to begin with... Really? You don't recall posting either of these? Or remember me proving you wrong using facts and knowledge (I'm going to change my user name to facts and knowledge lol)? You still have offered very anything to validate your assumptions as anything valid, just petty arguments towards me for having the gall to you with you. Don't be surprised if you start noticing/hearing about drivers working non-stop 12+ hour shifts on the same route w/ little-to-no break.... much like the drivers of those fung wah buses, or double happiness, or AA bus, or w/e the hell they call themselves now.... Delusional if you think the leftover drivers would pull in "lots of money" for working OT under veolia/NICE, if they offered OT..... That's even assuming they'd pay them the time & a half rate anyway.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted February 16, 2012 Share #37 Posted February 16, 2012 Really? You don't recall posting either of these? Or remember me proving you wrong using facts and knowledge (I'm going to change my user name to facts and knowledge lol)? You still have offered very anything to validate your assumptions as anything valid, just petty arguments towards me for having the gall to you with you. Which were opinions, not anything presented as fact to disprove.... You cannot disprove an opinion... what part of that don't you get ? There would be no point of me trying to "validate" anything to you, since we have opposing views about Veolia. No matter what I say, you would dismiss it regardless.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrstone Posted February 16, 2012 Share #38 Posted February 16, 2012 I'm sorry I proved you wrong and did not go away just because you are argumentative. So let's please have a conversation, I'll help you out... How is you feel Veolia will be able to escape NYS law and the union and require operators to work 12 hours on a route without paying them the required overtime? You eluded to the assumption that you feel that Veolia would have newbies doing this work, so they wouldn't have to pay senior drivers. How is you feel Veolia would be able to give overtime to newbies and senior drivers? Or does the fact remain that these are your opinions and nobody should try to challenge them or else you'll talk louder, and argue the point that you're right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrstone Posted February 16, 2012 Share #39 Posted February 16, 2012 Which were opinions, not anything presented as fact to disprove.... You cannot disprove an opinion... what part of that don't you get ? There would be no point of me trying to "validate" anything to you, since we have opposing views about Veolia. No matter what I say, you would dismiss it regardless.... Opinions are great, but you cannot go around saying these ridiculous things like that and not have people challenge you on them. At least back up your opinions, are you really just going to say these things, then when someone challenges it you get all bent out of shape and stand behind them as being opinions that no one should challenge. Really? Then why do you slam someones opinion on a route change? You don't want someone to challenge your opinion but you'll challenge theirs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted February 16, 2012 Share #40 Posted February 16, 2012 Opinions are great, but you cannot go around saying these ridiculous things like that and not have people challenge you on them. At least back up your opinions, are you really just going to say these things, then when someone challenges it you get all bent out of shape and stand behind them as being opinions that no one should challenge. Really? Then why do you slam someones opinion on a route change? You don't want someone to challenge your opinion but you'll challenge theirs? You got me confused for someone else.... all the differences in opinion I've been on (and haven't had a problem with people's actions of simply them disagreeing btw), on this forum before this exchange with the likes of you.... Don't try to make this out to be like I can't handle a disagreement.... Talkin about me twisting things..... I don't care about anyone challenging my opinions... Where you start passing off your opinions as fact, and declaring yourself as the all out victor on top of it is where the problems occur.... Like I said, your commentary is no more important than anyone else's on here.... Now who's the one riding on an assumption, mr facts & knowledge..... I'm sorry I proved you wrong and did not go away just because you are argumentative. So let's please have a conversation, I'll help you out... How is you feel Veolia will be able to escape NYS law and the union and require operators to work 12 hours on a route without paying them the required overtime? You eluded to the assumption that you feel that Veolia would have newbies doing this work, so they wouldn't have to pay senior drivers. How is you feel Veolia would be able to give overtime to newbies and senior drivers? Or does the fact remain that these are your opinions and nobody should try to challenge them or else you'll talk louder, and argue the point that you're right? Still stuck on having won, aren't you.... And spare me the sarcastic BS about "let's please have a conversation".... What happened to all that talk about childish bickering.... Now you're so interested in having a convo.... Yeah right..... I'll still opinionate on these little questions you've decided to pose: 1) It aint about "feeling" like they can escape NY law & the union.... If Veolia has a history of having unfair labor practices on top of avoiding any dealings with unions, what's to stop them from tryna shortchange their drivers.... What's to stop them from pocketing every nickel & dime they can, by underpaying said drivers..... Past actions are often a precursor of what's to be expected in the present (and future).... and that is what I'm going on.... 2) How do I feel Veolia would be able to give OT to the drivers? What do you mean would be able, they'd end up telling the drivers to work a certain amt. of hours, or risk losing their jobs.... Including, not getting paid for true OT (time & a half).... 3) GFY.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted February 16, 2012 Share #41 Posted February 16, 2012 @ B35 The thing is the current riders weren't high enough to justify keeping their current forms in some cases based on riding said routes. That was what shaped and perfected some of my ideas which is why you say I eased up on the wild ideas. I eliminated some elements from my LI NICE plan to make em more practical and inline with current travel patterns and efficiency in mind while reducing DH runs significantly without disrupting service you will hear me on the 23rd if you come I guarantee all will soon make sense eventually. The wild ideas was what got me scolded by an NJT planner earlier last year. So I decided to reevaluate and ride to confirm and invalidate theories. Yeh, the current amt. of riders on some of the routes were/are low.... That doesn't mean it's plausible to suggest sending these routes all out the way..... Anyway, I say you eased up on them because you haven't been posting em much at all as of late..... What you actually do behind the scenes, none of us would ever know..... As long as the ideas are practical, you won't garner any (or too much) problems out of the riders with... All we ever asked of you was to be more realistic with your ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6 Limited Posted February 16, 2012 Share #42 Posted February 16, 2012 In its form n51 has no chance but a modification can save it ...and what type of modification is that? (please don't suggest sending it to jones beach, like you did w/ the 73/74) Well the N73 and N74 end right at the entrance to the Wantagh Parkway basically, an extension would have solved the canceled N50/JB87 issue,no? Wait, didn't the Jones Beach buses always take a full fare? like you couldn't transfer to the Jones Beach buses unless you had an unlimited metrocard, am I remembering that correctly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marctalky1 Posted February 16, 2012 Share #43 Posted February 16, 2012 Well the N73 and N74 end right at the entrance to the Wantagh Parkway basically, an extension would have solved the canceled N50/JB87 issue,no? Wait, didn't the Jones Beach buses always take a full fare? like you couldn't transfer to the Jones Beach buses unless you had an unlimited metrocard, am I remembering that correctly? u don't get a transfer if you went on the n4 from a NYC bus. But, it doesn't say anything about going on say the q43 from Jamaica LIRR to the N22 then to n87 when the n87 was around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6 Limited Posted February 16, 2012 Share #44 Posted February 16, 2012 u don't get a transfer if you went on the n4 from a NYC bus. But, it doesn't say anything about going on say the q43 from Jamaica LIRR to the N22 then to n87 when the n87 was around. Ahh I see. I think also, now that you mention it , that you couldn't get a 3rd transfer for the Jones Beach buses. For example. I could take the N6 to the N40/N41, to the N19 all on a single fare. But If I were to transfer to the JB88 instead of the N19 it would take another fare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nostalgia Posted February 16, 2012 Share #45 Posted February 16, 2012 Run numbers aren't changed across routes... or at least that was the way back with the MTA. An operator posted a website link to the winter pick list for LaGuardia depot and it can been seen the run number doesn't change when there is interlining. As an aside, Washington DC buses have a BLOCK number, not run number. The block number doesn't change, even if operators change. On the MTA, a new operator requires a new run ID in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marctalky1 Posted February 16, 2012 Share #46 Posted February 16, 2012 An operator posted a website link to the winter pick list for LaGuardia depot and it can been seen the run number doesn't change when there is interlining. As an aside, Washington DC buses have a BLOCK number, not run number. The block number doesn't change, even if operators change. On the MTA, a new operator requires a new run ID in the box. So wait there a guy that does the 79 2x a week in the morning but does the 16 full time does that mean he's 16xx or 79xx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nostalgia Posted February 16, 2012 Share #47 Posted February 16, 2012 So wait there a guy that does the 79 2x a week in the morning but does the 16 full time does that mean he's 16xx or 79xx. I'm confused. If the operator is full time on the 16, how can he also work the 79? It seems the first route determines the block number. Run 0102 makes one round trip on Saturday on the Q101 and spends the rest of the day on the Q100 retaining the 0102 run number. An operator on the RBO board posted the website for LAG depot picks. It just lists work assignments, nothing about days off. That info must be somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marctalky1 Posted February 16, 2012 Share #48 Posted February 16, 2012 I'm confused. If the operator is full time on the 16, how can he also work the 79? It seems the first route determines the block number. Run 0102 makes one round trip on Saturday on the Q101 and spends the rest of the day on the Q100 retaining the 0102 run number. An operator on the RBO board posted the website for LAG depot picks. It just lists work assignments, nothing about days off. That info must be somewhere else. On tuesday and wednesday he does the 624 am east bound N79 to hicksville after he on the 6 48 n16 he is a very nice guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nostalgia Posted February 16, 2012 Share #49 Posted February 16, 2012 On tuesday and wednesday he does the 624 am east bound N79 to Hicksville after he on the 6 48 n16 he is a very nice guy. I looked up the public timetables. N79 leaves Plainview 6:24 arriving Hicksville 6:38. There's a 6:48 leaving Roosevelt Field to Baldwin on the N16. I don't see how he can get from Hicksville to Roosevelt Field in ten minutes. But the question was run numbrs. I don't have any information on LIBus nor NICE run numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrstone Posted February 17, 2012 Share #50 Posted February 17, 2012 I'm confused. If the operator is full time on the 16, how can he also work the 79? He probably does a group, doing one run 2 days a week and the other run 3 days a week... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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