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tvega961

NICE Planned Service/Schedule Changes

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The ridership the n87/n88 gets from Freeport dismisses that theory...  Maybe if you compare the total number of people at any given beach to percent that arrived there by bus, you might have an argument.  But nobody is going to get people to use a bus instead of their car,people are taking the bus to the beach because they don't have a car, friend, or family member they can ride with.  Enough people use the bus to get to the beach to explain it's existence.  The question is just what is right way of sending the buses?  NICE should have survey takers getting peoples zip codes before the enter a beach bound bus,,,  There's a reason they ask you this at the sales counter, ;)

 

That may be a good idea. There is ridership at Freeport, but either they probably live close to Freeport,or they take bus/LIRR from Queens or something. 

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There is no need to have an N87 to the north shore.  The N40/41 and N43 will take you to major hubs such as Hempstead, Mineola and Roosevelt Field, where riders can transfer if needed.  I can't understand why a company that wants to stay in business is running empty N87 buses between Freeport and Hicksville, and empty N36 buses between Lynbrook and Freeport.  Yet they won't increase service substantially on their super-busy routes like the N4 (and end up leaving people behind, the bus is so crowded).  That N4 bus should be running every 10 minutes on Saturdays and every 15 on Sundays through 9pm. 

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 I can't understand why a company that wants to stay in business is running empty N87 buses between Freeport and Hicksville, and empty N36 buses between Lynbrook and Freeport.  Yet they won't increase service substantially on their super-busy routes like the N4 (and end up leaving people behind, the bus is so crowded).  That N4 bus should be running every 10 minutes on Saturdays and every 15 on Sundays through 9pm. 

This is why I get so irritated when the n6 is a giant clown car and people are still getting "passed-up". When/if they have the meeting about the GPS system and APC (Automatic Passenger Counting) system I want to go.

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So you're proposing NICE blow more money that they don't have for more service to an area not in Nassau County? Haha.

 

First of all watch your attitude towards me.  I have made an effort to not to be be mean or respond to this attitude of yours but don't think I won't make you cry like a 16 year old girl being cyber bullied!

 

If you have a problem with someones suggestions you don't get to mock people...  We are not all studying numbers we have to find on the internet, to present at a community meeting because no one will listen to his brilliant idea's otherwise... BTW Did Setzer or the people who actually get paid to make routes get back to you?

 

There is nothing wrong with my idea, since you know all of the numbers how much would it cost to send a bus from Babylon RR to Robert Moses and back? What would be the break even point for ridership?  Yes, I realize Babylon is in Suffolk County, Robert Moses is in Suffolk County....  But the Bus is already in Suffolk County, and the beach is not that far away in Suffolk County....  How do you know ridership would not work?  That it would be a waste?  Have you done studies or surveys on a bus going from Babylon RR & back?  The n87 in Nassau seems like a waste.

 

Now, are you going to be civil to me? Can you reply without being a condescending a-hole?  It's not becoming...

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Ignoring all the personal crap in this post, 

 

 

I do apologize for my post my anger got the best of me, but watch how you "talk" to people and you wouldn't trigger such a response.

 

Ignoring all the personal crap in this post, your idea doesn't make sense because you're suggesting service to areas outside the county when NICE barely has enough funding to provide service within the county as it is. 

 

 

 

Great suggestion, Brett, let's scrap service to Suffolk & Queens all together.  Just because it hasn't been done and wasn't thought of by you doesn't mean it wouldn't work.  This is an idea that just popped into my head, I have no idea if it would work or not but to dismiss an idea because it is out of Suffolk County is just....  Really?  As far as nice being "tapped" does that mean we just stop trying?  Automatically dismiss anything because it is outside of Nassau without even looking at it?  Because wasting money on things like the new n87 is better?

 

 

 Buses to anywhere in Suffolk County from the already-running NICE endpoints (ex. Babylon LIRR) would run empty because any place that craves service already has it by SCT. 

 

BWAHAHAHA!

 

 

People would rather ride SCT because it has better reliability, 

 

HAHAHA...  Seriously, I can't even...

 

Go to Whalt Whitman Mall (or ride the s1) and talk to the average AM/PM commuter on SCT and HART!  I've heard many of people wish SCT was both more reliable like "Nassau County" or have a company like "Veolia" take over Suffolk...  Suffolk is VERY unreliable...

 

 

Also, NICE has been losing and losing ridership since they took over, and that has to be regained back before they expand more service, especially out of the county, otherwise the buses will run completely empty. 

 

I have my theories on ridership dropping since NICE took over....  I'll post in that thread later today if I have time, I want to see if I can find any facts first for one theory...

 

 

The n87 now might seem like a waste because NICE is overdoing service, but an extended n73/74 to the beach certainly isn't and doesn't cost near enough as a whole new route.

 

Not trying to sound mean just honest, Hound already pointed out this is a terrible idea because the bus would get held up in the beach traffic make the bus late and screw up an already reliable route (n73/n74).  I have my "problems" with the guy, but he's driven in the system for decades, if the man says the bus is going to get stuck in traffic and screw up reliability of one of a handful of reliable routes I believe him.  After knowing this, why are you still pushing for this?

 

 

P.S. I don't see the reason responding to a status update on my profile almost 4 months old...

 

I responded to it yesterday because I read it yesterday, I thought it must have been important to you to keep it up their for 4 months for anyone to see who checks your profile...

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I do apologize for my post my anger got the best of me, but watch how you "talk" to people and you wouldn't trigger such a response.

 

 

 

Great suggestion, Brett, let's scrap service to Suffolk & Queens all together.  Just because it hasn't been done and wasn't thought of by you doesn't mean it wouldn't work.  This is an idea that just popped into my head, I have no idea if it would work or not but to dismiss an idea because it is out of Suffolk County is just....  Really?  As far as nice being "tapped" does that mean we just stop trying?  Automatically dismiss anything because it is outside of Nassau without even looking at it?  Because wasting money on things like the new n87 is better?

 

 

 

BWAHAHAHA!

 

 

 

HAHAHA...  Seriously, I can't even...

 

Go to Whalt Whitman Mall (or ride the s1) and talk to the average AM/PM commuter on SCT and HART!  I've heard many of people wish SCT was both more reliable like "Nassau County" or have a company like "Veolia" take over Suffolk...  Suffolk is VERY unreliable...

 

 

 

I have my theories on ridership dropping since NICE took over....  I'll post in that thread later today if I have time, I want to see if I can find any facts first for one theory...

 

 

 

Not trying to sound mean just honest, Hound already pointed out this is a terrible idea because the bus would get held up in the beach traffic make the bus late and screw up an already reliable route (n73/n74).  I have my "problems" with the guy, but he's driven in the system for decades, if the man says the bus is going to get stuck in traffic and screw up reliability of one of a handful of reliable routes I believe him.  After knowing this, why are you still pushing for this?

 

 

 

I responded to it yesterday because I read it yesterday, I thought it must have been important to you to keep it up their for 4 months for anyone to see who checks your profile...

Nice is not responsible for SCT's failures more S47 is good enough. And 2 being reliable is useless if nobody rides the service N73/74 I am pointing at you. 

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Nice is not responsible for SCT's failures more S47 is good enough.  

 

I never said is responsible responsible for SCT's failure or implied that the s47 was a failure (I don't know enough about the line to say either way)...  Nice try...

 

And 2 being reliable is useless if nobody rides the service N73/74 I am pointing at you. 

 

What!?!  Who are you pointing to and why!?!

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I never said is responsible responsible for SCT's failure or implied that the s47 was a failure (I don't know enough about the line to say either way)...  Nice try...

 

 

What!?!  Who are you pointing to and why!?!

He's pointing at the N73/74

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In the next round of service changes, the following buses should get additional service - N4, N6, N22, and N24.  There should be more N4x, N6x, and N22x runs at all hours of the day (especially if a bus is traveling empty in the other direction).  And possibly the introduction of an N24x as well.  This will help passengers with longer trips to save time, and also free up the local bus for local passengers (who won't get flagged).  Weekend service needs to be dramatically improved on the N4 line, with dispatchers standing at both Freeport and Jamaica Center so that buses do not regularly depart 20 minutes late (constant bus bunching on that line).

 

However, cuts should be made to other routes, so that service increases can be made on the moneymaker routes.  For example, there are many buses where I only see one person on the entire bus:  the N36 (Lynbrook to Freeport) and the N62 (Freeport Loop, runs very limited weekday hours), are examples.  The N33 (Far Rock to Long Beach) can run every 45 minutes instead of every 30 minutes, since it's never too crowded.  And many of the north-south routes in Eastern Nassau can be further cut in terms of frequency.

 

Also, drivers who wish to drive far slower than the speed limit should not be placed on busy routes like the N4 and N24, to avoid having those buses arriving at the terminal 20 to 30 minutes behind schedule.  They should be assigned routes like the N36 and N62 (that hardly get any passengers).  It's very easy to tell (with cameras and GPS tracking) who these drivers are.

 

Queens stops should be every half-mile apart (so that a person would need to walk no more than 5 short blocks).  If you need service every 2 blocks, that's what a Queens local bus is for.  There is no need for the N24 to pick up literally every 2 blocks in Queens and get caught at tons of red lights.  This would dramatically speed up Queens service.  Otherwise, buses run late, and delays cascade throughout the entire system (making the return trip late, etc).

 

If a bus line is crowded, you put more buses on that line.  And you further cut service on less busy routes.  This is not rocket science.

Edited by RtrainBlues

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If a bus line is crowded, you put more buses on that line.  And you further cut service on less busy routes.  This is not rocket science.

 

While it is not rocket science the problem with this theory is that when you remove buses from the non busy routes is that non busy routes run every 30, 45, 60 minutes as it is so you would make passengers wait long just because they live along a lower service route?  Should someone have to wait an hour for bus (what if they miss that bus by a few minutes) just so someone on a busier route doesn't have to wait an extra 15-20 minutes for a bus if the one passing them is crushloaded?

 

I am most familiar with the n4 and the n19...  Obviously one is busier than the other.  Let's us be very clear that from then end of (MTA) LIB and the beginning of NICE the n19 came pretty close to paying for itself which I believe were weekday headways of 30 min all day...    Sure the bus wasn't full all day but over the past couple of years NICE has reduced the amount of weekday buses and in the afternoon the bus comes every hour...  They pretty much squeezed people from 2 hourly buses onto 1 hourly bus and in essence gave the "extra" buses to busier lines (and just cut some to reduce costs).

 

But at what point does that not only become unfair but bad for business?  Not only are buses running hourly but some drivers are still leaving stops more than 5 minutes early, if you just miss that either because the driver was early or your appointment ran a few minutes over, you're waiting for almost 2 hours!  There are a lot of mentally & physically disabled people who rely on the n19, is it fair they must spend half their day waiting for a bus because someone doesn't want to wait 15-20 longer (hypothetical times) for another n4 or n6?

 

Now it;s also bad for business, when you put less buses on a line you increase the time people must wait for their bus.  Combine that with traffic and the obvious no repercussions for drivers that come 5+ min early (as they continue to do it after Setzer said in the news it would not be tolerated) and you now have a very unreliable bus line.  As I said there are many disabled and elderly people who rely on the n19, now that n19 is very unreliable and all of these people are eligible for able ride, they use able ride door to door!

 

Anyone who lives within a certain distance of a NICE line and meets eligibility requirements has to be served by able ride if they request it, it's the law.  Reduce the liability of less busy nice routes. Increase waiting times by taking away buses on less busy routes and putting them on busier routes people eligible for a able ride will choose able ride.  Buses have already been taken away from lower ridership routes and put on busier routes and the number of able ride requests have increased. Hmm...  Able Ride is paid for out of the budget before fixed route service gets any piece of the pie, so while you think your theory isn't 'rocket science' it obviously isn't as black and white as you think it is.

 

 

 If you merge the buses on the n87 with the n73/74 to Jones Beach, that's a couple more buses daily that could be helping out on routes that need buses like the n22 or the n6. In response to the hound's comment, traffic and the drawbridge will not interfere with the JB buses as much as you think. The n88 frequently stays on time and so does the n87. It's not like the bridge is opening every half hour. It's such a simple idea that would make a difference.

 

It is an idea and nothing more than an idea and the "make a difference" part is nothing more than your opinion based on nothing but an assumption.  The same could be said for Hound's comment but in this instance based merely on thoughts and opinions the guy who has been behind the wheel of a transit bus in this county for 40 years trumps your opinion on the traffic problems and reliability of the route...  Sorry.  It's a bad idea... 

Edited by Burrstone

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As far as breakdowns and consistency, Suffolk County Transit is more reliable than NICE. Because more money is pumped into the system, buses can be repaired quicker and more service can be provided. Simply put, it comes down the dollar and that's Nassau's problem, as if we didn't know that already. NICE's ridership has been dropping exponentially since April 2012 when the real first round of changes came out. If you don't provide the right service and the right amount of it, people find other means to get where they need to be on a reliable basis. A good part of the LIRR's ridership increase last year came from NICE ridership, I can almost guarantee that.

 

I'll address this later... I've got stuff to do....

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One time I was on n20 Hicksville and there was one male passenger wanted to get off near 248th St, and he screamed, "Open the Door."

Regular n20/21 riders and bus operator told him kindly b/o is not allowed to rear door in Queens since it's pickup and that person rudefully said to b/o and passengers, "I don't care."

It happened on Saturday.

 

There's still bus stop missing on Hook Creek Blvd and Merrick Rd on n2 bus.

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One time I was on n20 Hicksville and there was one male passenger wanted to get off near 248th St, and he screamed, "Open the Door."

Regular n20/21 riders and bus operator told him kindly b/o is not allowed to rear door in Queens since it's pickup and that person rudefully said to b/o and passengers, "I don't care."

It happened on Saturday.

 

There's still bus stop missing on Hook Creek Blvd and Merrick Rd on n2 bus.

I don't know how this relates to service/schedule changes... Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven

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While it is not rocket science the problem with this theory is that when you remove buses from the non busy routes is that non busy routes run every 30, 45, 60 minutes as it is so you would make passengers wait long just because they live along a lower service route?  Should someone have to wait an hour for bus (what if they miss that bus by a few minutes) just so someone on a busier route doesn't have to wait an extra 15-20 minutes for a bus if the one passing them is crushloaded?

 

I am most familiar with the n4 and the n19...  Obviously one is busier than the other.  Let's us be very clear that from then end of (MTA) LIB and the beginning of NICE the n19 came pretty close to paying for itself which I believe were weekday headways of 30 min all day...    Sure the bus wasn't full all day but over the past couple of years NICE has reduced the amount of weekday buses and in the afternoon the bus comes every hour...  They pretty much squeezed people from 2 hourly buses onto 1 hourly bus and in essence gave the "extra" buses to busier lines (and just cut some to reduce costs).

 

But at what point does that not only become unfair but bad for business?  Not only are buses running hourly but some drivers are still leaving stops more than 5 minutes early, if you just miss that either because the driver was early or your appointment ran a few minutes over, you're waiting for almost 2 hours!  There are a lot of mentally & physically disabled people who rely on the n19, is it fair they must spend half their day waiting for a bus because someone doesn't want to wait 15-20 longer (hypothetical times) for another n4 or n6?

 

Now it;s also bad for business, when you put less buses on a line you increase the time people must wait for their bus.  Combine that with traffic and the obvious no repercussions for drivers that come 5+ min early (as they continue to do it after Setzer said in the news it would not be tolerated) and you now have a very unreliable bus line.  As I said there are many disabled and elderly people who rely on the n19, now that n19 is very unreliable and all of these people are eligible for able ride, they use able ride door to door!

 

Anyone who lives within a certain distance of a NICE line and meets eligibility requirements has to be served by able ride if they request it, it's the law.  Reduce the liability of less busy nice routes. Increase waiting times by taking away buses on less busy routes and putting them on busier routes people eligible for a able ride will choose able ride.  Buses have already been taken away from lower ridership routes and put on busier routes and the number of able ride requests have increased. Hmm...  Able Ride is paid for out of the budget before fixed route service gets any piece of the pie, so while you think your theory isn't 'rocket science' it obviously isn't as black and white as you think it is.

 

 

 

It is an idea and nothing more than an idea and the "make a difference" part is nothing more than your opinion based on nothing but an assumption.  The same could be said for Hound's comment but in this instance based merely on thoughts and opinions the guy who has been behind the wheel of a transit bus in this county for 40 years trumps your opinion on the traffic problems and reliability of the route...  Sorry.  It's a bad idea... 

 

I agree with you about the n19, the 30 minute headways should have been maintained and they lost riders as a result. The n19 does (did) well between Sunrise Mall and Freeport, so they could've saved money by just having every other trip end at Sunrise in midday hours.The same could be said for the n27, while restored to its former full routing, midday headways are still only hourly, and after the 6pm trip from Glen Cove it's only once an hour, a very bad idea. The routes that should've been reduced ironically kept most or all of their service. We're talking about streamlining routes like the n14, n36, n45,46,47, 50, 51, 62, 73, and 74.

The n14 doesn't need more than 3 trips each in the AM and 3 in the PM. The n36 should be rush hours only, no weekends. The n45 was reduced, but what they did with the route doesn't make sense. The last trip in Bellmore is 5:35pm, that is way too early. 2 buses come into Bellmore from the n45 after that, and at least one of them, probably the 5:35pm from RF, should do a 6:35pm trip from Bellmore to RF instead of traveling empty deadheading back to the yard. That would balance the route with 6:35pm being the last trip on both ends.

The n46 was also cut back to rush hours only, but it's already overlapped by the n48, 49, and 50. The 46 should be discontinued. 

The n47 should also be discontinued, I have never seen anyone on that bus! The n51 should be changed to operate rush hours only.

The n62 has too many trips and very light ridership, have only 2 trips in the AM rush and 2 in the PM. As far as the n73 goes, completely eliminate any service through Division. All trips will take the Jerusalem Ave routing. And in summer extend the n73 to Jones Beach and get rid of the n87. The 87's route is close enough to the n73 as it is, plus you will be adding service on Sundays with the n73. So you're getting more service and getting rid of a route with very low ridership. The n73 certainly has more ppl on it than the 87! Plus you'll gain back the riders that dont want to deal with Freeport. The n88 will go back to 30 min service. The n80/81 have too much service. Keep both routes but run each bi-hourly (so there's a one hour combined headway between Sunrise Mall & Hicksville). I could see n80 Sunday service added as a "consolation" and maybe a few later trips.

Additionally, the n21 has way too many trips. That should go back to rush hours only and the n27 should go back to 30 min service all day weekdays.

The rest of the heavier routes need their service maintained or improved. But I know NICE's style, they protect the losing routes so the successful ones suffer. It's not a good business strategy! Amazing how they stay in business.  :rolleyes:

Edited by PinePower

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The routes that should've been reduced ironically kept most or all of their service.....
 
The n62 has too many trips and very light ridership....

I happen to agree with you here.... albeit with LIB, there have been times I was waiting for the N19 & kept seeing more 62's than anything.....

Looks like the running of too many 62's is still apparent.....

 

You'd think NICE would gotten rid of the fat (so to speak) that the MTA had running on some lines & shared the wealth (so to speak) on the lines that need the service more......

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The n19 does (did) well between Sunrise Mall and Freeport, so they could've saved money by just having every other trip end at Sunrise in midday hours.

 

I think this would've only really added to the confusion than being a solution...  We've been down this road before but If you re route the n19 to Amityville RR I'll settle with terminating every other at Amityville RR BUT it would have to use a different number like n18 to Amityville RR and n19 to Babylon RR...

 

I've actually seen a good amount of ridership taking the n19 to Walmart (at Sunrise Mall) and going to Babylon RR or Freeport RR. the problem is the people who do this occupy the row in front of them or next to them with tons of bags.  :(  

 

Can anyone tell me if SCT and NICE pays rent to Westfield?

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I agree with you about the n19, the 30 minute headways should have been maintained and they lost riders as a result. The n19 does (did) well between Sunrise Mall and Freeport, so they could've saved money by just having every other trip end at Sunrise in midday hours.The same could be said for the n27, while restored to its former full routing, midday headways are still only hourly, and after the 6pm trip from Glen Cove it's only once an hour, a very bad idea.

 

Does the n27 really need that much service? I haven't taken the route, but I always get the feeling that no one uses the stops between Roosevelt Field and Roslyn. The old n23 trips to Hempstead made transferring to the n20/21 a lot more easier.

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It would be nice if they kept the schedules the standard orange color.

 

Yes the purple on the schedule kinda threw me off...  I assume they'll be changing colors with schedule changes to signify a change?

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August 31st Service Change

 

NICE made a very small number service adjustments on 5 routes starting Sunday, August 31st.  Most of the changes are just minor tweaks to adjust to the Fall school year and make better connections with LIRR trains. 

 

Additionally, we have reinstated n6X college service between Hempstead Terminal and Hofstra/NCC.  This n6X college service will run until December 22nd, 2014, and will be suspended during winter break until classes resume again on January 19th.  For service to NCC/Hofstra during this winter break, we suggest taking the n35 or n16 from HTC.

 

The following routes will have new weekday schedules (the n24 has a new weekday and Saturday schedule)  that go into effect Sunday, August 31st, 2014.

n1

n6/n6X

n20/21                     

n24

n35

 

http://nicebus.com/Passenger-Information/June-22nd-Service-Change.aspx

 

In order to read parts of the N6 & N20 online skeds,you have to stand on your head,because they're upside down.

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It would be nice if they kept the schedules the standard orange color.

 

 

Yes the purple on the schedule kinda threw me off...  I assume they'll be changing colors with schedule changes to signify a change?

They change the color with every schedule change.

 

In order to read parts of the N6 & N20 online skeds,you have to stand on your head,because they're upside down.

Adobe reader has the ability to rotate pages.

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They change the color with every schedule change.

 

I guess I don't pay much attention to the PDF schedule and schedule changes....

 

 

 

In order to read parts of the N6 & N20 online skeds,you have to stand on your head,because they're upside down.

Adobe reader has the ability to rotate pages.

 

 

lol

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In order to read parts of the N6 & N20 online skeds,you have to stand on your head,because they're upside down.

Not for me. I could read upside down schedule fine since I sometimes reads books and Newsday upside down.

I compare with my n1 and n20/n21 schedule but it doesn't seem there's change.

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